the irish government Vs the vatican

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  1. Knight6 profile image64
    Knight6posted 12 years ago

    the irish government has had enough of the vatican lies with reguard to child abuse and in a new turn the vaticans response to the clyone report cliams they were innocent by not knowing who was doing what the irish government said it will introduce new laws that will supercide canon law which means the confessional will no longer be a safe haven for the wrong doers.
    have the irish government set a stand point for other countries to follow?
    is the church finally losing control of its sheep?
    is this the beginning of the end for this religion or will it servive?
    i believe it is last orders for the church and this is where it begins there will be no more church in 50 years and other religions will follow a new truth will come out of this one were all will become known to all people nomore lies a belief in something real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. IntimatEvolution profile image69
      IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In the beginning and for several hundred years there after priests were allowed to marry and have families.  It is unnatural for these men to stay celabent.  The
      church needs to go
      back to its origins
      and allow these men the opportunity to have sexual intercourse.

      1. Knight6 profile image64
        Knight6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        yes that is correct and if it was left that way there would must proably be no problem but if it change now do you think it would stop the mess or is it to late to turn back the clock and stop its destruction?
        the church is finished i believe it is just a case of when.....

      2. couturepopcafe profile image59
        couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Oh, Please!  These priests took holy vows.  If they weren't perverts, they'd be abusing women not little boys.  Celabacy is not unnatural.  It's a choice, a decision.  Again, if they did not have perverse tendencies, they would resign their priesthood and look for a woman.

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image69
          IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I completely disagree.

      3. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        The devout Catholics I know would disagree. As strange as their system seems to us, it is their system. They firmly support celibacy for their priests. As outsiders, I wouldn't think it was our place to call for change.

    2. Adams-ebooks profile image61
      Adams-ebooksposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Catholicism in Ireland is steeped in a long and conflicted history. The scandal and disgraceful nature of what went on was horrific and unforgivable. In my opinion,  for all those accused and found guilty, there is no punishment to fit the crime. Torture would be an understatement.

      The steep decline in attendance of Sunday mass has been very noticeable during my short 24 years. As a child, we were literally dragged out the door to attend sundays gospel and had to get dressed up and the church would be bursting at the seems with attendees .

      The later, is quite a different story. There is now a generation of children being brought up with the church being seen as a scary place.  My family will not and do not ever attend as there is no trust in priests and to be honest, not much faith in Catholicism.

      The Catholic church is outdated and refusing to adapt to the times. Irish are  going back to our original practices such as Pagan and Spiritual development. This is where it all began and this is where we are finally realising we need to go back to. .

      It is ridiculous to ask any human being to restrain from sex and love for a religion, as it is to make them wear a vale covering all but there eyes.
      Religion is expression of faith in your own beliefs but should never force you to make life changing decisions or extreme decisions.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image59
        couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        The priests who committed the crimes should be punished the same way any other sex offender is punished.  In a court of law.  The church is allowed separatism but not in the case of crimes.

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image69
          IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I must be missing something here.  Can they not be charged for crimes in Ireland?  They can be here in the USA.

          1. Adams-ebooks profile image61
            Adams-ebooksposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            They get protection ii convicted and almost never go to jail..

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 12 years ago

    The Catholic church won't be through with until the Catholic people turn their backs. The Catholics I know aren't happy about the abuse scandal, but they somehow put it into perspective. I doubt action by the Irish government is the death knell for Catholicism, or religion at large.

    1. vox vocis profile image83
      vox vocisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Clerical celibacy is not wrong at all - there really are people whose soul is on such a spiritual level that  they don't feel the need for sexual intercourse. It's a small number of people, but they're still there.

      Sex drive has psychological and social components, too - not only biological. Most men experience a decrease in their libido as they age and several millions of US women have a low libido. So what? Sex can be great and useful, but it can also be bad and harmful. It all depends on the person.

      Note that pedophils and sick people in this sense intentionally enter the church, become priests or teachers because this helps them to find their victims easier and to hide their dark secret without a problem.

      Yet, I must add  that I'm very disappointed by the way that the Catholic church handles this issue. They seem to be covering up the whole thing and protecting the sick bastards.

      Totally disappointing sad

      Well, my opinion about Catholic church is that  "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (as Jesus said), but the whole thing is, I repeat - very disppointing sad

  3. Mighty Mom profile image77
    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    The Church has been covering up priestly sins of the flesh for decades.
    It's beyond criminal.
    But if they turned over every priest who'd ever groped an altar boy there'd be a huge shortage of priests.
    Hmmm. Maybe they'd have to finally consider ordaining WOMEN!
    What a radical concept!!

    1. Knight6 profile image64
      Knight6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      mighty mom not as radical as you think according to the true gospel of peter women were suppose to carry on the churches work they were the ones jesus chose to continue his work interesting yes!!!!!!! but dont forget the magdalene sisters and the sisters of mercy were both involed in abuse of women and children too so it is more the churches failings than the individuals ie preists or nuns both of whom worked under the church banner.

  4. AngelTrader profile image61
    AngelTraderposted 12 years ago

    The following is an excerpt from today's Irish Times.

    "THE VATICAN’S assertion that Taoiseach Enda Kenny made an “unfounded” allegation against it in his Dáil speech on the Cloyne report has been firmly rejected by Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore.

    In its response to the Cloyne report at the weekend, the Vatican described as “unfounded” the Taoiseach’s Dáil claim on July 20th that it attempted to frustrate an inquiry into abuse “as little as three years ago”.

    When asked yesterday if the Government would stand over the Taoiseach’s claim that the Vatican tried to undermine an inquiry by the State, Mr Gilmore said: “Yes, the Government does stand over what the Taoiseach said in the Dáil. When the Taoiseach spoke in the Dáil, the Taoiseach was speaking for the Government and he was speaking, I believe, for the people of this country.”

    Speaking at a Labour Party “think-in” at a hotel in Tullow, Co Carlow, he added: “The abuse of children is not acceptable. The abuse of children is intolerable.

    “And those who didn’t act, didn’t discharge their responsibility to make sure that it stopped or that those who were responsible for it were brought to book, they have a case to answer and the Government makes no apology for stating that in the unambiguous terms that it was stated by the Taoiseach.”

    Asked what he would be saying to his Cabinet colleagues in their discussion of the Vatican response, Mr Gilmore said: “Well, it’s a very detailed response. I think in many respects it probably misses the point.

    “The point here, as far as the Government is concerned, is that the issue that we want addressed is the welfare of children and the protection of children.

    “There was the most horrific sexual abuse of children perpetrated by clerics. The Catholic Church did not deal with that as it should have dealt with [it].”

    When it was pointed out that Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin had asked for specifics about the particular instance of alleged obstruction cited by the Taoiseach, Mr Gilmore said: “Let’s be clear about the specifics. Children were abused. Let’s not be distracted now, let’s not miss the point.”

    Asked it the Taoiseach had made loose charges in his Dáil speech, the Tánaiste replied: “No loose charges were made. There was a report, which was an official report, conducted into what happened in Cloyne. Children were abused, it was not handled appropriately by the church. We brought that to the attention of the Vatican and asked for their response. We are not going to be dragged into a prolonged semantic debate about standing up this phrase or that phrase.”

    Meanwhile, a member of the leadership team of the Association of Catholic Priests has described the Vatican response at the weekend as “an excuse not an explanation”.

    Speaking in a personal capacity Fr Seán McDonagh agreed with the Archbishop of Dublin about there being a cabal at the Vatican. It was made up “of right-wing Latin Americans such as Cardinal Hoyos . . . you don’t write to a French bishop to say that the best thing he did was to break the law,” he said.

    Cardinal Hoyos was prefect of the Congregation for Clergy from 1996 to 2006. In 2001 he wrote a letter to French bishop Pierre Pican praising him for not passing information about an abuser priest to police.

    Fr McDonagh welcomed the Government’s holding of the Vatican to account on the abuse issue, saying “it is the first time this has been done”. He also said it was “really good to see these questions being asked”.

    1. Adams-ebooks profile image61
      Adams-ebooksposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Disgraceful. These people are supposed to be leading the country.

  5. Nexis19 profile image61
    Nexis19posted 12 years ago

    Quite simply the whole situation is depressing. There was a time when the church was respected and trusted. But they betrayed that trust.  There are still devout Catholics that will stand by the church but it is time they opened their eyes and understood what has happened. I fail to see why people still defend the church. Allow me to give an example. Around the time all this surfaced their was a communion in the area where i live. During the communion a priest stated that it was the parents fault for everything that had happened. That is sickening. In what way are parents to blame? Priests made their choice to be celibate and then they chose to abuse children. And using fear they ensured that nobody talked. Its absolutely sickening and i think that the church is well and truly done for it really is only a matter of time. But then if that happens what will become of civilization as we know it. Will conflict stop or will it worsen? These are the type of things that need to be considered!

    1. Knight6 profile image64
      Knight6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      nexis19 civilization will create a new religion and hopefully a better more true to life one but conflict and war will always be till the end thank you all for your input and comments

      1. Nexis19 profile image61
        Nexis19posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Of course.


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