Why do people walk on egg shells around the Catholic Church?
On various occasions I have been attacked because of my condemnation of the Vatican even by non believers! It is more severe than any other topic I bring up. Why is it so hard to accept that evil has infiltrated what is supposed to be a representative of God?
I don't want this to be a repeat of Margie's blog. If it does I'll ask the moderator to close it down. I just want an honest answer.Claire, there is a major difference between Churchianity and Christianity, and the RCC is just another branch of Churchianity, no different from all the other organisations that police religion, except perhaps corrupt and deceived (and deceiving) for longer than our 'protestant' varieties.
God has scattered His people in ALL the areas of Churchianity, and I know real believers in most of the sections, they are His remnant, and God hides His people amongst all the tares and hirelings to protect us when the time comes.
But the call is up to 'come out of her my people' and believers are doing that, they may still attend their local branch of Churchianity, or not, but they are OUT of the world and waiting for the Kingdom, and that is also part of Gods plan.Sometimes I find myself tied in a religion I believe I am free. It is maybe the word "respect" because until now I am in search of the true church.
All organized religions have one thing in common and that is the suppression of its followers. They want control over their congregations and the idea of them thinking for themselves would be disastrous. Keep the lambs in line! Since ancient times, religion always had a great marketing tool – believe in this nonsense or die (literally). Even today, religion imposes death threats to their congregations, while not so much literally death, but eternal damnation. Baaah!
You are right that religion can be used for control.
I don't believe there is one "true" church. All have their drawbacks. The best "church" is a personal relationship with God.
Claire: THIS single submittal sez it all!!!!
"Religions"... which prescribe for people WHO is their "God"... and HOW to worship Him/Her (if that is necessary) are simply organizations which use this particular scheme for extricating money and loyalty from their adherents without really providing anything more than a building (in most cases) and a format for followers to follow THEM (the religion)... AND a promise that it (the religion) knows something that they don't about Salvation... whatever that is.....
aguasilver ... I agree completely.
@Claire Evans .. believers do not want to believe this to be true, I think; because to accept this as fact opens the door to other questions which no one wants to face.
Evil hasn't crept into the RCC. Read the History of the first 1000 years of the Church and its Popes and you will see that evil was there from the beginning.
How many Popes were assonated by their predecessors? How many Popes had many children out of wedlock ?
How many believers were killed for refusing to become Catholic?
People do not WANT to see these things because Catholicism is the Mother of Christianity as it is today.
To question our mother, causes us to question our selves.
The bright side is ... By having these doubts, we can begin to repair the cracks in our own belief system.
For prophesy says it will be so.
Again .. I completely agree with the way aguasilver expressed himself.I was quoting Pope IV about evil infiltrating the church. It was later that the Illuminati infiltrated the Vatican and took control over it and the Jesuits.
Peirs Compton, author of the book, ""The Broken Cross" (1981) and ex-editor of a Catholic newspaper, "The Universe", says:
""The Illuminati had ...a plan ...they decided on a most ambitious line of conduct. It would form and control public opinion. It would amalgamate religions by dissolving all the differences of belief and ritual that had kept them apart; and it would take over the Papacy and place an agent of its own in the Chair of Peter."
"It (this All-Seeing Eye) overlooked the crowds who gathered for the Philadelphia Eucharistic Congress in 1976. It was taken up by the Jesuits who edited the Society's year book; and it appeared on a series of Vatican stamps issued in 1978." (p. 10-11)
http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1037.html
Is he right?
The all-seeing eye is the classic symbol of Freemasonry and the Illuminati infiltrated Freemasonry when they were dispersed. The all-seeing eye represents many "gods", especially Lucifer. Others include Horus, Baal, Phoebus, Apollo and Osiris. The Illuminati formed in 1776 as revealed on the American dollar bill.
John Daniel, Scarlet and the Beast, Vol. III, pp. 6-7, (c)1995:
The Illuminati, founded by Weishaupt in 1776, adopted as their Seal "a 13-layered unfinished pyramid with the capstone missing. Hovering above is a sun-rayed triangle, as if waiting to be lowered to complete the structure. In mystery religions the triangle symbolizes power, such as a throne or kingdom, and is sometimes pictured as a horn. The triangle is also a symbol of the dwelling place of the pagan higher power, representing a mountain top in hilly country, a pyramid in Egypt, or a ziggurat in Mesopotamia. The ancients called the ziggurat Hill of Heaven, or Mountain of God." (Daniel, Vol. I, p. 163)"
Just my commentary on this, this is why Moses often visits God on the mountains. This is the pagan influence in the Old Testament.
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialr … story.html
The El Diablo had hand signal illustrates the devil's horns associated with the pyramid.
It looks like the Catholic are the biggest and most satanic like group out there, and true Christian are hidden away waiting for JC to set them free.
Kind of like how the first mammals evolved into man because the rat like mammal went hiding into the cracks of the earth for safety or the Dinosaurs would eat them all up. Then the rat like man grew into Aguasilver like creatures, it all makes perfect sense, like How God created us to be perfect...wow amazing how history repents it's.Todd, thanks for the support, man! Always happy to hear from you.
I don't agree that God has scattered people in all areas of Christianity. I believe people are responsible for that. They are just too many variance in opinions of the religion for their to be one church.
You have not been attacked. Some one pointed out how funny it is to see you attacking the Catholics (all the same to me) and then complaining that people were "attacking," your ridiculous beliefs. Gotta say - yours are a tad further out there, but - once you start believing the sort of nonsense you guys believe, it is hard to grade it.
Agua just seem to be jealous that his church is not as big as the Vatican.Why do people tell lies? Have I ever attacked the average Catholic? I speak out against the Pope and the Vatican.
Telling the Catholics their leaders are satanists and they are ignoramusus for not being able to discern such a simple thing is not attack? Oh! Attack is, if you are told you are a satanist. When you tell it, it is just plain truth!
Any normal human being knows conspiracy theories cannot be disproved, but one need be a psychotic to believe in conspiracy theories and most psychotics do believe it.Claire Evans
I'm so happy, not to have to fight religion, atheist or anyone because I am not for being against or downing anyone.
Don't you think being against is part of thr problem like in the word
ATTACK To set upon in a forceful, hostile, or aggressive way,with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: To begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy, to blame or abuse or bitterly, To direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely;argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent's statement. To try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor's reputation.I never started any hostilities with Motown, a Catholic. That was a response, or an attack back, to Emile's bringing up of the Vatican. I was on the defensive. I attacked the Vatican and blamed it bitterly, etc. And, yes, I argued with Motown because she attacked what I said.
1. How many lesson must we learn about turning the other cheek, too many times to strike up many real fights and disrespect?
2. How many revenges must one have to dig up two graves, for one to understand the one grave is for your enemy and one for your self.?
3. Why would a tree fight with fight with it's own branches like the many domination of Christian fighting each other?
4.Why are Christian the world champions of war, these kind of lesson in life will only continue in your life endlessly on earth and in your after life if you don't?
STOP IT!!!
From your friendly and loving forum member.I was not going to respond to this thread at all, Claire, but you are being blatantly dishonest here. I did not attack you. I said that you were wrong, and then declined to argue with you about your point. That is it.
Thankfully, the thread is still here, and anyone who chooses to may see that I in no way attacked you personally regarding your statements. If I had, I'd have been banned from the forums for responses in that thread, and I was not.
I have not called you a liar, nor attacked you. I have disagreed with you.Is this not an attack?
This is arguing so therefore you didn't decline an argument and merely say I was wrong.
To quote Castlepaloma:
ATTACK To set upon in a forceful, hostile, or aggressive way,with or without a weapon; begin fighting with: To begin hostilities against; start an offensive against: to attack the enemy, to blame or abuse or bitterly, To direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely;argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent's statement. To try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor's reputation.
You were on the offensive. I never addressed you first.
I personally feel this is a silly thing to argue about. It doesn't impress me, however, that when I say things that are hostile, I'm on the attack. When someone else does this, they are just merely arguing.I did not address you - I spoke to the irony of your original post by pointing out that you and another poster had very clearly attacked Catholicism after claiming that you never bashed another's belief.
I found it interesting.The Vatican isn't a "belief". You don't worship the Pope. At least I hope you don't.
I am just stating a fact. Time and time again when I correspond with Catholics they tell me the same thing. I'm a Catholic-basher. Have you ever criticized Mark for being disrespectful to those who love Jesus?
You say this:
"Mark and I have been round and round on more than one occasion, but we've had fruitful dialogue as well. He's a person - even if you disagree with him. And he most certainly has a right to his opinion (AND for it to be heard in this forum)."
He then writes to Margie:
"Lying that your religion is a "personal relationship with god," then claiming it to be under attack because mandatory prayer has been removed from schools is plain old dishonesty."
He is attacking Christianity and accusing Margie of being a liar for claiming she has a personal relationship with God. This should have offended you because if you have a personal relationship with God, he is calling you a liar, too."
Is the Vatican more important to you than Jesus?
You say we have a right to an opinion. Why attack me then (except mine is more fact)? I am a person even if you disagree with me.You are certainly entitled to an opinion.
I disagree with it.
In short, everyone is allowed an opinion, even if it's wrong.
You seem to be under the impression that anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you. Not so. I don't agree. Period. You have attacked the Vatican, which most people lump quite squarely with Catholicism in general.
Don't worship the Pope. Don't worship Mary. Don't worship saints. Were you ever to engage in a reasonable conversation with someone Catholic, you might learn all of these things.
Mark and I agree occasionally. We usually do not. But because he approaches ME in general with a reasonable attitude, I try to do the same with him.
In general, I don't find conspiracy theories reasonable, so I'm generally not in agreement with people who believe in them.I do not! I get a bit aggro at times when people mock me, if I even answer them, or downplay the seriously of my argument, etc. When you have a debate, you are not attacking your opponent if it is done in an intellectual and civil manner.
It's just that you got really upset when I condemned the Vatican and said nothing when Mark mocks Jesus. Is the latter correct? Have you ever chastised Mark for his disrespect for Christ?First - I did not attack you for condemning the Vatican. Once again, I pointed out the irony of the fact that while you and Margie claimed not to bash any religion, in another thread you called the Pope satanic. Please go re-read the thread if you cannot remember the incidences correctly. In more than one post, I refused to rise to your bait and continue an argument that you tried to start on more than one occasion.
Secondly - wow, you are certainly concerned with my relationship with Mark. Again, Mark and I rarely agree on ANYTHING - but I do not condemn him any more than I condemn you, because it is not within my power to convert Mark. It is within my power only to show the love of Christ to as many others as possible.
The Holy Spirit will convict whom He chooses in His own way.
That being said, I don't believe I'll be commenting on this issue with you any longer. I must respectfully agree to disagree with you.I don't think I ever said I didn't "bash" other people's religion. I will only do that IF there is a merit to it and it's evil and corrupting people. Just like Mark does. You fail to notice that Catholicism falls under Christianity, which is my own religion. The Pope is a Satanist. How else should I say it?
If you don't want to continue the argument, then why have you responded to me again?
You never say such things to Mark like this you said to me...
"Your faith is just that - faith - belief in something unseen and unproven. When you treat others as though you know something they do not, they may become defensive. When you can prove that your belief isn't belief but knowledge of a true and indisputable fact, then you can rightfully expect to never be ridiculed or questioned about it. Until then - you do Jesus no favors by trying to 'force' others to believe in him."
"These things may be true - but when you say those things and expect that everyone will simply roll over and agree and not become slightly defensive on occasion (which you simply view as an 'attack' on Christianity) you have brought on the ridicule yourself"
So I'm just wondering why you don't like what I say but what Mark says, which is very inflammatory, is okay and not even worth an address.
He can only work through people who aren't in denial.
Please do!
Maybe it was another thread you ticked her off, or maybe just being Catholic is enough, it's mysterious
I was talking to her about the previous forum, Margie's one, that got closed down. I have absolutely nothing against the Catholic people, just the Vatican.
I thought learning and teaching is the same thing or leaders and followers are the same thing, or Catholic and Vatican are the same thing.
Which one of pieces of the wonderful misery mysterious puzzle fits?Do not equate the actions of regular Catholics to those of the Vatican.
Two of the riches countries in the world like the Vatican and the USA, I would not equate the actions of regular Catholics or Christians to be anything that looks Christlike to those of the Vatican because the extreme rich and poor catholic hierarchic and hypocrite ways
Vatican now equates the question of women priests to child abuse. ... Atheist to Nazis, They protest priest child molester, they cause over population, war, murder, imprisons gays and pot heads, much like the USA dose. How can these two countries be world champion at the game of Sodom and Gomorrah and be Christlike at the same time, kind of defeats the whole purposeThank you a multillion times. Religions, not only Catholic, are a human construct which was instituted to instill fear into and control the masses for their own inglorious ends. However, many people are loathe to realize this because religion to them is a bulwark and an anchor. To these people, life without religion is equated to hell so they live in their purgatorial illusory world believing that religion is everything. If a person dares to present a different viewpoint, this person is derided as a hell-bound heathen who is truly a lost and damnable soul according to these religionists.
You dammed if you do and dammed if you don't and depending on your religious geographical location on earth. It's hell of a lifestyle to live, kind of like those ads that say who gather solider for war, there is no life like it. Or was it, no liking life here if afterlife for most will be worst if you do not obey as only a few will make it.
How sick, unkind and low energy toward most humans
Glad Yahweh is not my super natural God, he is not friendly enough God toward nature or toward to greater success story of the Dinosaurs pass
I don't use words like augments, debates or aim to be against anything just have discussion with people about many facts, things and most often agree and sometimes disagree.
Claire Evans you posted about the Pope IV evil infiltrating the church. It was later that the Illuminati infiltrated the Vatican and took control over it and the Jesuits.
You say you are against the Vatican, if I am against something I am likely to attack somehow, since there is no hate in me there will be no attacks or have any desire to against anyone, I practice the art of ignoring negative people and they go away.
Then you posted, you can only know the love of God knowing the hate of Satan. How Do Christians Stand Firm Against Satanic Attack or Institute?
It's real hard to make out the where the head of God starts and tail end of the Devil ends.
My Grandma, one of the most genuine Christians I have ever known, chose the Catholic Church to show her devotion. She would be horrified to hear about a satanic Vatican. That information - whether fact or fiction would truly break her heart. History has clearly shown how far Catholicism misses the mark, but "Religion is the opiate of the people." Who said that? Lenin or Stalin or Rolling Stones
It doesn't matter which church one belongs to as long as a personal relationship with Christ is strong. Satanism is rife. Christians need to know the power of Satan and that Satan would never choose not to get involved with the Church which is supposed to be dedicated to God.
The Catholic Church is a powerful religious "institution". This church is the richest in the world
www.thefix.com/.../catholic-church-mexi … drug-mo...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrament_of_Penance_(Catholic_Church)
www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,91 … 25,00.html
www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm
www.vatican.va/roman_curia/swiss_guard/ … ria_en.htm
I am a member of another networking site ( a Christian one) and I was given a warning for making similar statements against the Catholic church.
How can a church that has allowed pedophilia to run rampant, called a man Holy Father, (something that is condemned in the bible) Praying to the Virgin Mary...people want to be poltiically correct, everyone who is sensible can locate the origins of the Catholic Church. When a church has to use terror against those who refuse to tow the line, in my books IT CANNOT BE THE TRUE CHURCH OF GOD. THE VATICAN IS A STATE WITHIN A STATE.
People are afraid, but true Christians have nothing to fear. People are afraid of the devil. His reward is coming. Even posting these things online can cause us to be marked. But as long as we are soldiers of Christ we have to take a stand.
Stand firm Claire Evans...Then what? Christian soldiers continue killing more people in the name God, more so than for any other reason.
Demons only appear when to believe and support them, don't all Christian believe in demons (sub human) or in hell, if not, Take HELL out of your bible then watch how many members show up, that impress me enough to maybe join...... on second thought ....not, still not plausibleI've always wondered how many people would still be Christian if no such thing as hell existed. Then again, you can only know the love of God knowing the hate of Satan.
Just what we needed. Someone to cheer on the madness.
lol lol lol Lord Satan would be proud of all the fighting Madness, I'm waiting for better entertainment , something with humor and that makes good sense too
Sky faries and boogymen, do not horror insight nor inspire anew. These things keep us trapped to our attachments, desires, identity, opinion, blah, blah, blah. What's the point of wasting time and energy on such trivial pursuits, when living is all one needs. Tomorrow is heaven, as long as I'm still breathing and whatever troubles I had are yesterday's news.
My imagination tries to follow good sense.
When God sits on one side of my shoulder and the Devil sits on the other shoulder. That means it's time to cancel my hard prescription drugs
Well it is obvious you are a heretic, my dear. To go against the one true church is a sin and you will no doubt roast in hell. May I respectfully suggest that it isn't too late. Get yourself to the nearest Catholic church, repent and ask forgiveness, If your heart is pure you will see the light.
I want everyone to prey for her, ok? She knows not what she says as the devil has her. Oh for the days of the inquisition. Why must god put up with this blasphemy day in and day out?That is what the Catholic church calls those who oppose her. Even the disciples of Jesus left his company there is no mention of the disciples and Jesus using terror methods to get them back in the fold.
If the priests of Baalam had to be here today they would feel at home in the Catholic church.
So many people are caught up in this cult; people feel that if you speak out against it in any way; God will personally reach down and smite you. Christians expect you to be mindless sheep that need no explanation of anything.
Unfortunately, this is true. This is why there is so much division in churches. Many people aren't willing to hear someone out if they say things that are contrary to their belief what the scriptures mean.
it's a powerful institution is one of the reasons. it has power, glory and just look at the churchs they build, people want to be part of it and they want to be a voice that represents it. i never understood why people believe the vatican is a holy city, corruption is a part of life there.
I do not know, but I share your sentiments. I feel very concerned for people misled by the teachings of the Catholic church.
I have nothing against Catholic people but I am concerned that they are unable to handle criticism of their denomination. Submission is what the Vatican wants. No questions, just blind obedience. I find this with fundamentalist Christians also. Do not question the "infallibility" of the Bible or go to hell.
We aren't going to learn in life until we question, question, question!Totally concur! Many traditional religionists blindly follow their beliefs. They view their perspective viewpoint as a security measure. They are in their particular "comfort" zone and believe that if they question their beliefs, they would become quite uncomfortable with it. Oh no, they do not wish to be uncomfortable so they blindly follow and to be purgatorially comfortable rather than to face the truth and leave their religion to grow!
They could cut their fuckin feet!
sorry for the bad language, but the Devil made me do it and my Hamster!You are on a roll this morning with your posts.
I'm confused... is your hamster involved in the Olympics demonic terrorism plot? Cause THAT finally makes everything make sense...
Is the hampster's name Boo? (if anyone gets that joke let me know about your massive coolness)
I am not convinced that the roman catholic church is holy. I am convinced, however that some of its members are devout Christians. This is why I stress the personal relationship between each individual and God.
The church is man made...inclusive of flaws. Jesus is perfect. The church is full of politics. God is almighty.
I learned a valuable lesson with the thread I started. Those who are against you will attack and condemn you. It doesn't matter if you accept them, they don't accept you, just because of what you believe.
Claire, I will respond to you and others who have proven to accept me whether we have differences or not. ...and so I did. Amen.Why is it so hard to accept that evil has infiltrated what is supposed to be a representative of God?
That's a fair question. Here's a response from a Roman Catholic.
First, is there evil in the Church? Yes there is. But then there always has been. The Church started with 12 leaders, the apostles. One sold out for 30 pieces of silver. One denied Jesus 3 times. One doubted Jesus' resurrection. We are a church of sinners. We always have been.
Second, Is the Church a representative of God? Yes. In our creed, we say the Church is holy. We believe the Church was started by Jesus, who is God. The Church was not started by man. And we believe that God in the Holy Spirit protects the Church from doctrinal error just as Jesus promised.
So to answer your question, the evil we see in the Church comes from sinful people who've rejected the Church. It's hard to accept especially when these people are priests and nuns and bishops. Thankfully, the vast majority of the Church leaders are good and holy men and women. The evil we see is hard to ignore and it's easy to make the mistake of equating that evil, with what the Church actually preaches.
So you see Claire, your condemnation of the evil in the Church is not without merit. I condemn it too. If you focus on what the Church teaches, you may see that the only evil comes from those who do the condemning.There's a difference between just mere sinners and those who deliberately deceive and worship the devil. The Vatican is full of devil worshipers and is an institution for him. I believe that those who love Jesus should be the church. An institution is rife with corruption and evil and cannot be called holy. There are many good people who have rejected the church but still have a close relationship with God.
I cannot believe you just said that the only evil comes from those who condemn evil. Jesus condemned the Pharisees. He must have been evil then according to your logic.Devil worshipers in the Vatican? Really? Did I say that evil comes from those who condemn evil? Seriously? Claire, when you make up stuff like this, you lose all credibility.
Devil worshipers in the Vatican? Really? Did I say that evil comes from those who condemn evil? Seriously? Claire, when you make up stuff like this, you lose all credibility.
Yes...
devil worshipers.
Pope Paul IV alluded to it. He said the "smoke of Satan has entered the temple of God".
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_ … t.html#top
Fifth paragraph from bottom.
"OF THOSE that have accused the Vatican of being infiltrated by satanists, none has been as widely noticed as the late Malachi Martin. An expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls, he also wrote about such widely diverse topics as exorcism, Church history and modern geopolitics. None of his books have been so controversial — or so misunderstood or ignored by the mainstream press — as his works that deal with this ominous and sensitive topic.
Martin had first made explicit reference to a diabolic rite held in Rome in his 1990 non-fiction best-seller about geopolitics and the Vatican, The Keys of This Blood, in which he wrote:
Most frighteningly for [Pope] John Paul [II], he had come up against the irremovable presence of a malign strength in his own Vatican and in certain bishops’ chanceries. It was what knowledgeable Churchmen called the ‘superforce.’ Rumors, always difficult to verify, tied its installation to the beginning of Pope Paul VI’s reign in 1963. Indeed Paul had alluded somberly to ‘the smoke of Satan which has entered the Sanctuary’. . . an oblique reference to an enthronement ceremony by Satanists in the Vatican. Besides, the incidence of Satanic pedophilia — rites and practices — was already documented among certain bishops and priests as widely dispersed as Turin, in Italy, and South Carolina, in the United States. The cultic acts of Satanic pedophilia are considered by professionals to be the culmination of the Fallen Archangel’s rites.
(p. 632. Emphasis added)
"Malachi Martin documents that a Black Mass was held in St Paul's Cathedral in 1963. During this heinous affair, several cardinals "installed Lucifer to his appropriate place" in the Vatican, as "head of the church."
Martin claims that a good deal of the child molestation occurring now is actually Satanic worship. Part of the Luciferian rites of many of the priests, nuns, and hierarchy. He intimates that many who engage in this kind of "worship" are indeed secret Masons.
Malachi Martin was himself a Jesuit priest, in a high official capacity in the Vatican. "In God's Name" has a photograph of Malachi Martin, seated right next to Pope John Paul I--the Pope that was murdered. Martin is seated between Pope John Paul I (who is on the Papal Throne) and Diego Lorenzi, an aide who accompanied John Paul I from Venice, where he was previously.
Alberto Rivera also says that he attended, as a Jesuit, a Black Mass in the Vatican. With the Jesuits. Martin himself did not attend the Black Mass, but he knew of it. He later resigned the Jesuits--around 1972.He was "Laicized" so that he could write books on the corruptions he had seen in the Vatican.
He recently passed away in 1999. Some Catholics think he was murdered. He also wrote a blockbuster entitled "The Jesuits: The Society of Jesus and the Betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church." In that book, he details how the Jesuits became Communists in the 1960's, under their then Secretary General, Pedro Arrupe. And he documents how they fomented Communist revolutions in several countries--especially in Latin American and Africa."
http://www.puritans.net/news/malachimartin.htm
"If you focus on what the Church teaches, you may see that the only evil comes from those who do the condemning."
I now assume you meant those who condemn the scriptures are evil and not those who condemn evil like the Catholic Church? Sorry, if you meant the former.Claire, are you really so gullible as to fall for all that nonsense? I see you have a picture of a cross turned upside down. So what... anybody can photoshop. Someone writes a book and you fall for anything written there.
Does Satin exist in the Catholic Chuch? Yes, I wouldn't doubt that he does. I believe that Satin is most obsessed with trying to defeat anything that stands for God's truth. And so the Catholic Church is target #1.
So if it is as you say, that Satin is in the Catholic Church, it must be that the Church stands for God's truths. There must be a war between being waged for people's souls. The war is between Satin's evil and God's love.
As for me, I am with God and His Church. What side are you on?IstCitizen, that picture was on CNN. Anyway, you can see the footage of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tijz4M-EChk
That author was a Vatican insider. I wouldn't just take his word for it. Other evidence, like Satanic symbols, need to corroborate it.
The question needs to be asked, "Why has the Catholic Church incorporated pagan symbols in the church."
Sun worship is devil worship and characters such as Baal are solar deities.
See the obelisk at St Peter's Square?
Obelisk means "Baal's shaft". His penis.
One Luciferian author writes that "... the lingam [male phallus] was an upright pillar" [W. Wynn Wescott, Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtues, Theosophical Publishing Society, 1902, p. 33]
The Egyptians created the obelisk, believing that the spirit of the Sun god, Ra, dwelt in there. [H.L. Hayward, Symbolic Masonry: An Interpretation of the Three Degrees, Washington, D.C., Masonic Service Association of the United States, 1923, p. 207; 'Two Pillars' Short Talk Bulletin, Sept., 1935, Vol. 13, No 9; Charles Clyde Hunt, Some Thoughts On Masonic Symbolism, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1930, p. 101]
A Masonic author both admit that these pillars of the obelisk were used to represent sex [Hayward,Symbolic Masonry: An Interpretation of the Three Degrees, Washington, D.C., Masonic Service Association of the United States, 1923, p. 206-7 and Rollin C. Blackmer, The Lodge and the Craft: A Practical Explanation of the Work of Freemasonry, St. Louis, The Standard Masonic Publishing Co., 1923, p. 94]
"Go in, and slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast them out, and went to the city of the house of Baal. And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them." -2 Kings 10:25-26 The Amplified Bible translates it... … King Jehu said to the guards and to the officers, 'Go in and slay them; let none escape'. And they smote them with the sword; and the guards before the king threw their bodies out, and went into the inner dwelling of the house of Baal. They brought out the obelisks [pillars] of the house of Baal and burned them." [2 Kings 10:26, Amplified Bible]
http://www.remnantofgod.org/steeple.htm
Look at this picture:
That hand signal is called the Cornuto or "El Diablo" hand signal prominent in Satanism.
Below is the picture of the founder of the "Church of Satan".
This video explains that hand signal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisbOL55 … re=related
A few other things to consider about the Catholic Church like where the sacred heart came from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oGEIUd … re=related
So obviously Satan owns the Vatican. I mean, why leave the most powerful Christian institution untouched?
I'm on the side of God which automatically means I'm against the Vatican.That hand signal looks very much like an old man with arthritis... it also is very close to the sign language "I love you"
Melissa, are you serious????
Can people be so in denial? A man with arthritis? You can't be serious on that one. Helen Keller was an occultist and she is the one who made the connection with that hand signal with, "I love you". Properly translated, it goes, "I love you, Satan."
It's an ancient symbol dating back thousands of years ago of witch-craft. I've given all the material there.Absolutely not I was just messing with you. Of course it's a satanic symbol... as a matter of face ALL sign language is comprised of satanic messages. It's a secret communication between all the so-called deaf people who really aren't deaf at all but can not speak around the rest of us because their forked tongues make their voices odd and therefore make them easier to spot.
It's obvious how evil sign language is by the speed that it was adopted by inner city gangs. The members who learned about the widespread satanic worship among the hearing impaired during their initiation rights thought the deaf kids were so bitchin' cool that they started to emulate them with gang signs.
I'm still working on why suburban white girls feel the need to use them in all pictures placed on facebook... and what the association is for them between the signs and making their face look like a ducks ass.Melissa, don't be pathetic. Do you really believe that Anton LeVey is saying, "I love you!" with his El Diablo hand signal? The facts are, you can't change the origin of a symbol and how Keller even come to know of this symbol is amazing.
Helen Keller was a believer of Theosophy founded by Satanist Madame Blavatsky.
The Theosophy logo:
Hitler was a Theosophist himself. This is where the Nazi symbol came from.
Let's look at a few other people/characters who are supposedly saying, "I love you".
Iranian president, Mahmood Ahmedinejad
George Bush
King Abdullah
Sarkozy
Can you feel the love?!!
I have to say all this is made much more humorous by the fact this is no satan and there is no god. If you stop and think about it, it's rather funny.
Aliester Crowley was pretty cozy to catholic church as well.
Ordo Templi Orientis : Google it
How do you people not see it.....
I started out as an atheist. I've made comments just like Rad Man, like everybody else here critizising Claire...until I just started to notice things. Did a whole lot of research...it always leads back to Rome. Always, always always leads back to to rome. Illuminati. Hollywood. The mindless programming on tv. The tweaked history. The crusaders..on wikipedia...it's funny how they replaced the words "roman catholics" to just "christian" thus programming the masses to generalize everything.
Organized crime pretty much originated from Italy...oh gee what do you know, the vatican is in Italy! I truly believe that the roman empire is the root of all evil. And that's pretty much all Im going to say on the topic. Claire...these people have to discover it on their own these people need to ask god for truth. They can only have it if they actually want it. The seeds can't always fall in the right places.
It's just that their knee jerk reaction to anything related to religions and the like are all P.C. training they learned growing up in our schools systems.Hellooo? Knee jerk reaction from growing up in our school systems? Which school systems would those be?
The reason people use the word Christian, not Roman Catholic, when discussing the history of the church is because that is all that the church consisted of, at that time. That's where all the Christians were. In the Catholic church. Now, attempting to paint all current Christians with the blood of any unfairly treated during that time is biased, but the school system isn't responsible for this trend. Unless, that was covered in Religion 101. I didn't take that class.
This conspiracy theory that the Catholic church is the root of all evil may make you feel better about yourself, but it is unfounded in fact. I suppose we could discuss the conspiracy among the fringe protestant sects to demonize the Catholic church. I've always assumed that simply points to sour grapes, because the leaders of those sects dream of having the power the Catholic church once wielded, centuries ago. Power they will never attain because the average Christian has better sense than to allow themselves to be consumed by ignorance and paranoia.Emile...just do the research... That's all it takes.
Maybe this will put things into perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrB21mc2fmI
“The war [Civil War of 1861-1865] would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits.” ~ Abraham Lincoln
Oh by the way, check out who makes up most of the supreme court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi … s#ReligionThat's where all the Christians were. ! ? .... I would agree that according to modern definitions ; that comment is correct! But according to definitions commonly held by first century Christians; were "True Christians" all over there?
I guess, from the beginning, Christians have been judging and finding others lacking. That's a pretty well documented fact.
However, that's a different conversation. I believe Mz. Labouf is putting forth the argument that the Catholic church is the root of all evil and controls the world to the point that it has our school systems subverting the truth for their gain. That is the standard argument of the fringe sects which are also borderline cults.
I realize you have a unique interpretation of prophecy, but I hope it doesn't line up with the paranoid meanderings of the mind of a conspiracy theorist.Good morning Emile R; NOPE, I'm not into conspiracy theories.
For the most part, I'm just stating what it is that (in my humble pinion) is written in scriptures whether I believe them or not. I think the RCC was the beast described in Rev 13. But that word "Beast" is misleading. Cyrus the Great is described as a "Beast" even though upon his arrival he was seen as a savior or A messiah. Every time in prophesy that a governmental type of authority enters the picture, they are described as a beast, which the word "beast" does not depict Good or Evil.
The RCC did do things as described in Rev. As far as any conspiracy going on in the church; if there are any they are of the individuals level seeking power, as did the pharisee in Jesus's time.
I believe that "IF" the RCC is said to be Evil; it would have to be said to be the lesser of two evils.
A lot can be said for good and bad in the churches. But we can't know what life on earth would be like without it? The general practices in life seems to show us that when we "Fix One Problem" another arises.
xxxxx Just woke up and saw your comment while drinking my first cup of coffee, so I may not be saying exactly what I think I'm saying. , I'm not arguing with your post, just trying to clarify my thoughts.
wish I could stay longer but I'm already running behind in my planed agenda for the day.Ultimate corruption stems from the roman church...at the very least I hope you see that. Even though I don't believe in Satan, I'd still call them the spawn of the freaking Devil. Catholic church IS the root of all evil and controls the world to the point that it has our school systems subverting the truth for their gain.
Political correctness is a very powerful tool to quiet the masses. This isn't conspiracy theory. It's fact. Therefore it would not surprise me in the very least that this is actually going on in our American schools.
Also was just curious to what you think about the conspiracy that "Jews control the world"? Starts all wars ...etc.Just curious; ... Do you have any religious affiliation?
You think Jews control the world and start all wars? I thought you just said the Catholics did. Are they, in your opinion, in cahoots?
You know what I think. If the antichrist is to appear in our lifetime, we may miss him completely. Everyone is so busy WANTING him to come from one place in particular that when he comes from their own backyard, they'll never notice.
And, oh, of COURSE, the RCC and the Jews can't be in cahoots. You know since the Catholics hate Jews for killing Christ (their JEWISH) messiah, and the Jews are victims of persecution ONLY since the inception of the Christian Church-because they were so respected and powerful during Old Testament times.
Sheesh, Emile, don't you know anything?
*rolleyes*
Im atheist...we should all pretty much conclude that money is the root of all evil.
The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars.
"The following are statements either made in speeches by members of the Catholic Church or financial publications giving their assessments of the wealth of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic church, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.
The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment".
The Catholic Church must be the biggest corporation in the United States. A branch office in every neighborhood. Their assets and real estate holdings must exceed those of Standard Oil, A.T.&T., and U.S. Steel combined. And our roster of dues-paying members must be second only to the tax rolls of the United States Government.
Aurora's link on wiki has the statistics for you.
To say that they don't control the world to the extent that they do. Emille... you are so naive. Then move along. Nothing more to see here.
BTW. I'm atheist. I don't need to be religious to see the corruption going on. Both Catholic Elite and Jewish Elite are probably the most corrupt of them all. They both have their history in Rome.
The bull hand gesture does not always mean what you think it does to everyone. For instance to Italians it's superstitions and is a way of waving off the evil eye (jealousy).
I do not care what meaning they assign to it. It's what it originally means that counts.
Claire, this is getting to be beyond ridiculous. If what someone else thought certain hand signals meant made my use of them satanic, every movement I made could be determined to have Satanic origins by someone, somewhere.
You see satanic because it is what you want to see. The fact that no one else does speaks volumes. You aren't listening because you so desperately want to see satan. You need to ask yourself why.Or you have just bought the world system softening up process so thoroughly that you cannot see the enemy at work, I almost said behind the scenes, but in reality we are seeing him working in plain sight nowadays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1GavDtiwM
Look at this, try to watch all of it, it took me two days in sessions, but it is worth watching, and THEN deciding (and no it is not a religious film).No aqua. I won't buy into the belief that an invisible force manipulates people into doing bad things. We are responsible for our actions. But, that isn't what this conversation is about. This is about simple usage of hand signals. I don't care if you and claire see satan. If 6 billion 999 million 999 thousand 998 other people identify it differently....what does it mean? What you two say?
There is degrees of truth in mind control like in the film that Aguasilver just presented. Yet this has been going on since the smartest cavemen in the cave made up stories for his own ego power gains. The greedy rich use an easy tool like Religion to serve their megalomania mental illness as Hitler did all over again. Being against something become the part of the problem all over again, mean while the best is to control and help yourself first in order serve other better, Forget this against Satan and serve Yahweh first crap, or they got you all over again and again.
I think that is why I am a bit of a nomad who will not allow myself to get caught up in the mass trance like religious repeaters do, who are always against something to the end of time on earth and who knows what happens in the afterlifeJust for curiosity, did you watch the whole video?
Putting aside the religious debate, which is another issue which is used to divide us (humanity) from seeing their plan, the video makes a very clear case that we are being manipulated, intimidated and deceived by a small cartel of people who seek to gain total world domination and put those who are not their members into complete subjection to their will.
I recommend a full viewing to anybody who doubts that the Illuminati exist or what their intentions are for us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1GavDtiwMIt was interesting and saw the whole video and it is important to be aware of the differences ways of thinking that surround us, all. Most of my behavior is dictated by my own consciousness destination and desires.
All of these bullies and dictator always fail over time, like puppet politicians OR the greedy rich. The grass root people who are the true leaders throughout human history are the ones who really change 80% of the consciousness in our Worldwide human society. There are 10% of the people who are fearless out these, don't get swallowed up by the fearful 90%
I enjoyed the last film you posted about 9-11 and the digital manipulation of the planes.
I think it's time to move along now, Emile. You know what I am like by now. I cannot possibly be reasoned with.
The sad thing is, you know. You have made a conscious choice to live in fear and ignorance. You don't question why you want to perpetuate this hate speech.
Emile, you may not understand, but Claire is a spiritual warrior, you may as well discuss quilting with a Special Forces guy.
God has many different categories of believer and maybe for the first time, you are seeing some of the more intense believers here on the forum.I am sorry that you, too, chose to live in the fantasy land of hatred for humanity. Heck, if God agreed with you two, humanity wouldn't exist. Your hatred is your problem. Not a cosmic one.
No hatred of humanity, all spiritual warfare is done under the guise of Ephesians 6.12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
But when you discuss with folk who are unaware of these things, it can be seen as lack of compassion I agree, but it's really not.I think you are right on one point. I don't believe the fact that you live in denial means you lack compassion. And everyone's attempt to help you see reality doesn't show a lack of compassion.
There is only one reality aqua. And the only logical explanation will be that it is all tied together in a consistent manner.
You only see ONE reality, there are actually some strange things happening out there that defy your reality.
Anyhow, can't be frightening the other users.... I'm out of here.
I have to say, I'm a little concerned that aqua and Claire are beginning to sound like the stuff that comes out of the mouth of someone who just committed some horrific act. Just saying.
I wouldn't be surprised that if there is a terrorist attack at the Olympic Games, we'd be blamed for putting the idea in some radical's head.
I agree. Those who convince themselves that they are 'spiritual warriors' are one fantasy away from committing atrocities.
A few years back a bus ride in Western Canada turned into a nightmare when one passenger killed and beheaded the sleeping passenger next to him. He later said God told him the sleeping young man next to him was an alien and had to be killed. He thought he was saving humanity by killing this young man. The voices in his head that he thought was God was just Schizophrenia.
I do believe you may be spreading hate speech in God's name.His actions placed him clearly as NOT being a believer in Christ, we don't believe in aliens.
You clearly have no idea of the difference between spiritual warfare against a spiritual enemy and folk being fed chemical drugs by doctors for their 'mental health' and showing side effects when they miss taking them.
Have no fear, any 'warfare' carried out by a believer is done in the spiritual realm, you may not understand that, you may wish not to understand that, but that's how it's done.
Any believer knows that God will never tell us to do anything that Christ has not commanded or approved, because Christ and the Holy Spirit only do the Fathers will, so any instruction received will be confirmed by both the Holy Spirit and three confirmations from the bible, which concur with what Christ told us.
That last sentence illustrates that OT scriptures are only valid to Christians when they are reaffirmed or repeated in the NT.I certainly do understand that he was insane. He understands that God would not ask him to do such a thing. He certainly does believe in God as do you, but at the time was insane. Do you think someone who believes in God can't be insane?
I certainly did not lump you with his actions. Lets make that clear. I was only using his example to show how one can be mislead to do horrific things. As you can see from a few of my hubs I'm no fan of the RRC, however calling them Satanic because of a hand gesture that she is misinterpreting is alarming. Lets not forget Helen Keller and the US government.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1GavDt … 1eHduD8yIQ
May give you some insight you may be missing.
There are degrees of working for the enemy, who you call Satan, those degrees are so subtle, that many folk have never even realised their part in the scheme of things.
Basic premise: There are two sources of power and authority in this world, God, who has given the authority and power to Christ for the duration of this period, and the enemy, called Lucifer or Satan, but to me, just the enemy, who has dominion over all of humanity UNLESS they have placed themselves under the authority of Christ.
From that perspective, any person involved in spiritual warfare for Christ, will know that at some level, to some degree, the persons they are dealing with will be under the enemies authority unless they are a fellow believer, under the authority of Christ.
BTW that video is not religious or Christian, but it does cover much of the ground folk are unaware of.Oh I see, everyone who does not think exactly as you and claire is the enemy and under the influence of Satan. I'll get to your video when I have time. You two have been heavily indoctrinated, I'm hoping are not hearing voices in your head. Do you talk directly with God or Jesus?
There you go, reacting again, rather than responding.
Not "everyone who does not think exactly as you and claire is the enemy and under the influence of Satan." but as I said:
"There are two sources of power and authority in this world, God, and the enemy, who has dominion over all of humanity UNLESS they have placed themselves under the authority of Christ."
Two sources of authority, not John and Claire versus Rad Man and the rest, but God and Satan having control, and authority over us all, either one or the other.
Not "everyone who does not think exactly as you and claire is the enemy" but "everyone who has not placed themselves voluntarily under the authority of Christ is by default still under the authority of Satan"
Binary numbers, on/off, plus or minus, dead or alive, these are all alternative states, and each one can only be one or the other, and we have the same denominator to choose fro: God or Satan as our masters.
You can choose to ignore that fact, and remain under Satan's authority (though still gaining some degree of protection from God, unless and until you start actively emulating your master) and most folk do that as it happens, or you can work it out for yourself and choose to move your soul from Satan's dominion into Gods Kingdom.
That's the choice we all get to make, join Christ or stay with Satan.
Part Two:
"Do you talk directly with God or Jesus?" If you cannot understand the first part, you will not be capable of understanding the second part, so I will not trouble you with an explanation that will only be used to poke fun or ridicule believers.
Suffice to say that you also 'hear' from your master or his minions, but your brain has been conditioned to not notice the instructions and propaganda you are constantly fed, and programmed with.
The video, which I will repeat is not a religious video, may help you understand the world you live in, and the powers that operate that world, you may awaken to what's happening around you and being planned for your life, or you may continue slumbering, like a frog in the kettle, slowly warmed and lulled to soporific sleep, then boiled.There you go again talking down to me when you are the one living in a fantasy world. Once you are communicating directly with God and it's an us against them world it's time to rethink what your doing. Make sure those voices don't tell you to do something you shouldn't or something that can get you in trouble with the law.
It’s a symbol for witch-craft and paganism.
That hand gesture originated with the goddess Diana, a moon goddess. Moon gods and goddesses are Satan as he is a bisexual entity. The bull’s horns (that hand gesture) represent the moon as well because it looks like the crescent moon and the female reproductive system (the uterus and the Fallopian tubes).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15989845/The- … -and-Islam
Here we see Mary on a crescent.
It is a fact that obelisks are associated with phallus worship, it particularly being Baal’s “shaft”. Baal was a bull and Moloch. Baal was also the sun god. Take special notice of these pictures:
Assyrian Baal suncrest, symbol of moon and sun worship.
A Roman Catholic gold stand that holds up the Eucharist. The sun and crescent moon is worshiped.
There are a couple more pictures that I find highly disturbing:
The late Pope bowed down to a Black copy of “Jesus” in Angola in 1992. Soon after, his life was only sickness and sufferings.
http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/category … -paganism/
Marduk (Babylonian deity) on Vatican crest:
Pope IV claimed that the smoke of Satan was in the RCC. We have an upside cross. We have a Jesuit priest claiming Satanic activity in the RCC.
Rome, Italy, Mar 3, 2010 / 04:20 pm (CNA).- A renowned exorcist in Rome recently released a book of memoirs in which he declares to know of the existence of Satanic sects in the Vatican where participation reaches all the way to the College of Cardinals. A second demonologist, also residing in Rome, entered the debate this week, clarifying the origins of the information and defending the Vatican's clergy as an "edifying and virtuous" collection of prelates.
In a book of memoirs released in February, the noted Italian exorcist Fr. Gabriele Amorth affirmed that "Yes, also in the Vatican there are members of Satanic sects." When asked if members of the clergy are involved or if this is within the lay community, he responded, "There are priests, monsignors and also cardinals!"
The book, "Father Amorth. Memoirs of an Exorcist. My life fighting against Satan." was written by Marco Tosatti, who compiled it from interviews with the priest.
Fr. Amorth was asked by Tosatti how he knows Vatican clergy are involved. He answered, "I know from those who have been able to relate it to me because they had a way of knowing directly. And it's something 'confessed' most times by the very demon under obedience during the exorcisms."
The famous Italian exorcist was also asked if the Pope was aware of Satanic sects in the Vatican, to which Fr. Amorth replied, "Of course, he was informed. But he does what he can. It's a horrifying thing."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ … n_vatican/
Washington DC also has an obelisk.
I find it astonishing that non-believers find this ridiculous when they pride themselves on possessing reason or are they completely incapable of putting the pieces of a puzzle together. It’s not that hard. Just do the research.
Fear equals denial. This is what keeps people from getting the truth. It’s too frightening so they choose not to believe it. This is why evil thrives because it is unchallenged.Wow... racist too. Just a question... Do you seriously think that a white man walking around Judea 2000 years ago would have gathered any kind of following? Jesus likely looked closer to that statue than he did you or I. He was black or Arab.
Are you sure that God didn't grab some DNA from an Anglo Saxon and put it into an Arab virgin? Maybe, if he didn't do that, Jesus had the same disease Michael Jackson suffered from, because a savior with a dark complexion seems highly improbable.
Just kidding, of course. But, you know you are a hand maiden of Satan for even bringing up a very valid point.Well I do think they were in Africa and you know what they say, when in Africa do as the Africans. I suppose she thinks a black Jesus is a satanic symbol as well.
Probably. At this juncture, I'm curious if there is anything she doesn't see as a satanic symbol.
There are very few symbols that aren't. The world revolves around Satan.
You aren't the world claire. Simply because you revolve around Satan doesn't mean the rest of us do.
What can I say? We are on different wavelengths. You just do not understand and quite frankly, unless you investigate further and break away from your prejudice, you will never understand.
I can't be indoctrinated Claire. You are wasting your efforts on that point.
Yes, with you. And you are wasting your time with countless others who are also attempting to help you recognize the obvious.
No, I'm not wasting my time. You know I have a kernel of truth else you wouldn't be addressing me all the time.
I remember back when I posted in the religion forums in myspace a few years back. There was this fundamentalist Christian who just couldn't be reasoned with. I gave up. Perhaps you should, too?Nah, I'm not a quitter and my faith in the goodness of humanity overrides good sense, at times; so I doubt I will ever lose faith in the belief that you can be reasoned with.
But, I'm going to give you an opening to expand on your theory of evil.
Did you read the article about the cannibal in Miami? I know a new designer drug was involved but it really bothers me that a drug could turn someone into such a monster. The thought of such behavior haunts me. What's your personal theory on that incident?If someone's brain has been affected by some drug, it is completely possible for someone to behave that way. I don't believe they have the mental faculties to appreciate what they are doing.
The Center of Disease Control has previously put on their website what to do in the event of a "Zombie Apocalyse".
Wonder why Zombies, Zombie Apocalypse, and Zombie Preparedness continue to live or walk dead on a CDC web site? As it turns out what first began as a tongue in cheek campaign to engage new audiences with preparedness messages has proven to be a very effective platform. We continue to reach and engage a wide variety of audiences on all hazards preparedness via Zombie Preparedness; and as our own director, Dr. Ali Khan, notes, "If you are generally well equipped to deal with a zombie apocalypse you will be prepared for a hurricane, pandemic, earthquake, or terrorist attack." So please log on, get a kit, make a plan, and be prepared!
http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm
Of course this is tongue and cheek but it could disguise a nefarious agenda.
Of course the CDC now denies the existence of zombies as reported in the Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/0 … r=Politics
Melissa is right in what she said. He could have been black. Arab or black. Most definitely not white.
I didn't write that commentary. You can see the original caption here:
http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/category … -paganism/
I'm not sure but perhaps the commentator was racist. He was ill in 1992 but was in many years prior, too. I just cut and pasted rather in a hurry because my post was really lengthy.
What is disturbing about that picture is that it only as a head not that because it's black.
Depictions of Jesus as a white man are not Jesus, obviously, because he wasn't white. It's actually the anti-Christ. Those in the occult are looking for a fair-skinned and fair-haired messiah.
That is another manipulation by the Church.
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtkU6P0J … re=related
What is also completely unacceptable is this:
This is Erzulie Dantor depicted as the Virgin Mary and Jesus.
This woman was a voodoo witch, the goddess of love.
"Erzulie Dantor is the Voodoo goddess of love, romance, art, jealousy, passion, & sex. Erzulie Dantor is the patron loa of lesbian women, fierce protector of women experiencing domestic violence and patron loa of New Orleans."
Why should Mary be the god of sex as she bore Jesus as a virgin? She clearly wasn't a witch as that is a abomination to God. It is clear this is not Mary but the Catholic Church obviously wanted to convert pagans so they lied about this.
http://www.mysticvoodoo.com/erzulie.htm
Jesus was guilty of spreading hate speech in the name of God.
So Jesus has a set of different standards to me? Jesus said a rather "hateful" thing here:
John 8:42-47
New International Version (NIV)
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
So he is telling these people they are the devil's pawns. He is saying those who don't love Him and confess He is the son of God is doing Satan's will.
But when Aguasilver says this, he is hateful.You aren't Jesus. Neither is Aqua Silver. This is not a difficult point to grasp. As long as you are ranting about conspiracy theories; you should leave the good name of others who aren't present to defend themselves out of the conversation.
John 14:11-13
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father’s name convince you.]
I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, if anyone steadfastly believes in Me, he will himself be able to do the things that I do; and he will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father.
And I will do [I Myself will grant] whatever you ask in My Name [as presenting all that I Am], so that the Father may be glorified and extolled in (through) the Son.Then I'm taking you fishing with me. You can walk on water AND feed unlimited people with what we catch... then when you are done you can turn some of the lake water into wine to serve with the fish.
Sounds like a fun afternoon, but it's a long walk from Malaysia and immigration will probably freak if I walk ashore in America.
That is not the point. Jesus said something rather "hateful". So he is allowed to be "hateful" but we can't? Aren't we supposed to strive to be like Him?
Who am I leaving out in the conversation? The Pope?
If I offend you so much, you are most welcome to go elsewhere. I have a right to bring up conspiracy theories. People sneer at Christianity, like you, so why can't I "sneer" at those who won't see the truth?You do have a right to speak. But when you bring up ridiculous topics and claim it as truth, you will encounter derision.
And, please. Stop comparing your words and actions to Jesus. That is one of the ridiculous points I'm speaking of. Jesus didn't slam the institution of Judaism. He pointed out the fact that those who claimed they had the truth and the ones who believed themselves in a position of spiritual knowledge were hypocrites and vipers.
I see the parallel here in this conversation. Do you? Probably not since they refused to examine themselves alsoOh, so refute every point I've made about the Catholic Church then. It's going to keep you busy!
Why did Jesus feel the need to preach contrary to Old Testament teachings? Why not preach revenge, treat women like dirt and sacrifice goats as a form of repentance? Why warn of a terrible punishment if one harms children if God, Himself, was getting of killing children over the Passover?
The Jewish people just had it all wrong. The kept reverting to paganism spilling into their scriptures. If Jesus said that sacrificing goats was a pagan practice, and it was, you would have accused him of slamming Judaism and hating the whole of humanity.
Jesus came to make everything new. He dispelled the misconceptions of God because of the flawed OT and revealed the truth of who God really was. God obviously didn't think Judaism was the right belief or else there would have been no need for Jesus to die for our sins.
I think the prophet Jeremiah could have been "slamming" Judaism when he said:
Jeremiah 8:8
New International Version (NIV)
8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the Lord,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
The Catholic institution is the same. The Vatican is supposed to revolve around Jesus worship but worship's Mary, or Isis, instead and incorporates Satanism and paganism into the religion.
Atheists often compare Christian behavior to Jesus' illustrating how some Christians conflict with Jesus's behavior and are hypocrites. Is it not wise for me to evaluate my behavior so that I am not out of sync with what Jesus preached? You may not realize this but I put a lot of thought into what I write. I will never be Jesus but I can try and set an example and when I'm wrong, I'd like to know it provided it's reasonable and correct.
So how do we go from despising the Vatican to hating all of humanity? Were you a Catholic? Jesus despised the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and evil. Humanity still is a round, btw.
Humanity still being around was my point Claire. Which proves you wrong. On multiple levels.
You didn't answer my question. Why does hatred for the Vatican translate into hatred for humanity?
I don't think you are aware just how irrational you are.Sure Claire. Not believing in invisible beings who manipulate humans who aren't as powerful and loved by God as you, the 'spiritual warrior' are does make me completely irrational.
You might try to spend 30 days looking at the good in the world and not try to ferret out some hateful hidden cosmic agenda that, quite frankly, doesn't exist. Another hobby, other than trying to find evil in every corner. The need to see others as possessed by demons is your hatred of humanity.Emile, it's not a need, or even a want, it's just how things are.
What makes people go to Houla and stab and shoot little children in the head? Where does that evil come from? Is it natural?
Is it natural for our world leaders to feed off wars? What makes someone like Hilary Clinton, for example, sleep peacefully at night knowing that Afghans and Pakistanis are being killed by predator drones everyday. Is that natural? Could you do that?Claire, Satan is not the driving force behind the atrocities. And, as long as people like you insist that it is we won't work harder to find worldwide solutions. Why would we bother? Seriously? Christians are as responsible for the atrocities as any other group. So, if Christ can't stand up against Satan, who could? By your argument Satan is greater than God.
Well, you have a lot to learn about how the world works. I really do think it would be in your best interest to learn. If everyone gave their lives to Jesus, Satan would not survive in this world. It's not that Christ can't stand up to Satan; it is Christians who do evil that can't stand up to Satan because they work for him.
No, Satan is not greater than God. Unlike God, Satan needs humanity's sin to survive.Funny. I get the impression from your posts that you have 'given your life to Jesus' yet Satan is alive and well in your mind. A much more powerful influence in your life than mine. Which somewhat negates the point you are attempting to make. Don't you think?
Funny, I thought Satan was alive and well in Jesus' mind:
John 8:44
New International Version (NIV)
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Matthew 13:38-39
New International Version (NIV)
38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
Matthew 25:41
King James Version (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now I'm not sure why you are saying Satan has more of an influence in my life than yours considering he doesn't exist in your mind.
You have to know your enemy or else you are going to fall into one trap into another. People don't know much about Satan so I try and educate them. After all, who goes to war without trying to know their enemy's plans?Claire, you aren't educating. You are merely entertaining. In a creepy, 'man I hope she's not serious', kind of way.
You often dodge my points, why? Why did Jesus have Satan on His mind often?
This has been explained to you. Repeatedly. By other Christians who you apparently refuse to listen to. Why would I think you'd listen to me if I repeated it? I'm not the one with an inability to accept reality.
In other words, you can't refute what I said. Other's haven't.
Well, this is a good an answer as any. If his family thought he was insane, perhaps he was. Not to many thought he was the Son of God when he was alive, perhaps even his parents who were supposedly told by the holy spirit he was God. Only a few hundred years later when the story was retold did anyone buy his story.
The Pharisees wouldn't exactly want an insane person put to death. Jesus couldn't argue with them rationally and learn the scriptures at 12 and be a teacher.
I think if Jesus couldn't do any miracles and couldn't get demons to profess He was the son of God, He could have been told lies.
All those who saw Him alive when He was resurrected believed Him as wasn't that prophesized by Jesus Himself?
Of course it's natural. That's why meds help Schizophrenia and praying doesn't. It's why the man I spoke of earlier who beheaded a fellow bus passenger because God told him to is now on meds and no longer hears voices.
Are you telling me the above mentioned people are all suffering from schizophrenia?
Rad Man, what is so hard to understand that there are some people who relish in evil? Seeing suffering is wonderful and exciting to them. This is called possession by the evil one. To be possessed, you don't need to have your head spin around and flick out a forked-tongue. People's mind and actions are taken over by Satan because of permission given to him by people.
When we do wrong, we have listened to the devil. Some repent but others enjoy it and thus strengthen Satan's presence in the world.Or, and much more likely the case, there is no Satan and no God. Some people do bad things because of greed or because something is wrong with them. Psychopaths can't be taught to feel sympathy for others. They are structurally or chemically different and this has nothing to do with spirits. You can't pray for them to get better. An injury to the brain can cause similar problems. Schizophrenia can be treated by medication and not prayer. There is no evil spirit in the mind of a person with schizophrenia, but it must have seemed to be that way before it was understood what the problem was. You are stuck a few hundred years on the past if you think a person who does bad or crazy things is possessed.
Well, I can't convince you, otherwise. If you are correct, you are describing our world leaders. Countries' like the US, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, France, etc are arming the rebels in Syria who are known to be brutally killing people indiscriminately but then blame Assad for not honouring the ceasefire.
I ponder about this over and over again. One explanation is mind control. Many victims of mind control go on to become world leaders. They are traumatized at a young age when causes their minds to compartmentalize. It kills their conscious. Other's go onto have Satanic ceremonies to dull their conscience like that ritual at Bohemian Grove, "The Cremation of Care".
There are conditions like being a psychopath, which is hereditary, that causes people to be impervious to other's suffering.
There is a myriad of reasons and, although it is tempting, we cannot condemn anyone to hell because we do not know the full story of their lives.
I, for one, believe that the rebels in Syria are just plain evil. They are not brain-washed by Islam because the West, who is recruiting and training them, is supposed to be the enemy. It's just pure blood-lust. They know they will get away with it so they kill.
Whatever the reason, I just know Satan exists.
I suppose you would never condemn Hitler as evil. No way...that would be hateful towards the whole of humanity.
If people want to associate themselves with Satanic symbols then it is only logical to assume they are Satanists unless, of course, they are ignorant about what it means, but trust me, the Pope knows.
In fact, Father Gabriele Amorth affirmed this: "Yes, also in the Vatican there are members of Satanic sects." When asked if members of the clergy are involved or if this is within the lay community, he responded, "There are priests, monsignors and also cardinals!"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ … n_vatican/
But he's just a hateful old man, isn't he?
I didn't say you were completely irrational but you are on this issue. Would it be rational for me to accuse you of hating the whole of humanity because, hopefully, you'd say Hitler was evil? And by hopefully, I mean hopefully you won't say such a thing that evil doesn't exist and he is just "misguided" like some people here have.
You don't know there is no cosmic agenda. Are you omniscient? Have you even made an effort to investigate beyond what you can see? The only thing the devil needs is for someone to deny his existence. Then evil can thrive.
Hate speech against evil? I didn't know that was such a bad thing. I assume you wouldn't have a bad word to say about Hitler and the Nazis. Wouldn't want to offend the Germans.
How on Earth can an obelisk be satan's willy? If you Claire have ever seen one that looks like that, then I suggest the man in your life needs to see a doctor.
Please don't display your ignorance. Phallic worship was very common in ancient times. Here's an example:
"Among the Assyrians, the supreme god, Bel, was styled the "procreator"; and his wife, the goddess Mylitta, represented the productive principle of nature, and received the title of the queen of fertility. Another deity, the god Vul, the god of the atmosphere, is styled the beneficent chief, the giver of abundance, the lord of fecundity. On Assyrian cylinders he is represented as a phallic deity. With him is associated a goddess Shala, whose ordinary title is "Sarrat," queen, the feminine of the word "Sar," which means chief. Sir Henry Rawlinson remarks, with regard to the Assyrian San, or Shamas, the sun-god, that the idea of the motive influence of the sun-god in all human affairs arose from the manifest agency of the material sun in stimulating the functions of nature. In Phoenician mythology, Ouranos (heaven) weds Ghe (the earth), and by her becomes father of Oceanus, Hyperon, Iapetus, Cronos, and other gods. In conformity with the religious ideas of the Greeks and Romans, Virgil describes the products of the earth as the result of the conjugal act between Jupiter (the sky) and Juno (the earth). According to St. Augustin, the sexual organ of man was consecrated in the temple of Liber, that of woman in the sanctuaries of Libera; these two divinities were named father and mother.
Evidence that this worship extensively prevailed will be found in many countries, both in ancient and modern times. It occurs in ancient Egypt, in India, in Syria, in Babylon, among the Assyrians, in Persia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Germany, Scandinavia, and among the Gauls. In Egypt, the phallus is frequently represented as the symbol of generation. According to Ptolemy, the phallus was the object of religious worship among the Assyrians and also among the Persians. In Syria, Baal-Peor was represented with a phallus in his mouth, according to St. Jerome. The Jews did not escape this worship; and we see their women manufacturing phalli of gold and of silver, as we find in Ezekiel xvi. 17.[1] Among the Hindoos a religious reverence was paid to the Lingam and Yoni, and among the Greeks and Romans to the Phallus and Cteis. Among the Teutons and Scandinavians, the god Fricco, corresponding to the Priapus of the Romans, was adored under the form of a phallus; a similar god under a similar symbol was adored in Spain, whose name was Hortanes."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/pw/pw.htmBut so what Claire. Why does anybody need to care about ancient civilisations that worshipped nonexistent gods? Meanwhile whilst you get all worked up about this, I'm relaxing with a bottle of Brains SA Gold - a "Refreshingly Hoppy Ale" brewed in Cardiff no less, after painting my house in the warm sunshine.
It matters when it comes to Christianity. Why would the Vatican associate itself with phallus worship? Is this what Christ wanted? What has Baal got to do with Christianity but to oppose it?
Claire, I’m not sure what to think about you… It sounds to me like maybe someone in the Church has done some evil to you, and now you have this hatred for anything Catholic. If that is the case, I am terribly sorry. It may just be that the Church has preached some truth to you that you didn’t want to hear. If that is the case then OK. You are free to reject her. You seem to have an obsession that is causing you to fall for any anti-Catholic nonsense you read.
There’s no need to “walk on eggshells”. If you have a criticism of the Catholic Church, let’s have it. If you want to be taken seriously, be sure to source your work from the Catholic Catechism. If you disagree with the Church, then OK. If you have an issue with the pope, the person, it might help if you actually read something he has written. Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, has written extensively, on Christianity. He is quite a scholarly man. If you disagree with him then OK.
Claire, when you reference Masonic sources or any of these other satanic works, you lose all credibility. You see, even if it is as you say, that Satan has gotten into the Church, I say so what? For 2000 years Satan has been obsessed with destroying the Church. This isn’t anything new. There have been countless efforts like these over 2000 years, but even the “gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”. (Mt 16:18) If you stand for God, don’t let yourself be used by Satan.For the umpteemth time, I have nothing against Catholics. It is the Vatican I despise. The Vatican has preached the truth to me. She told me she's the Whore of Babylon and that is why I reject.
As common with many people, you completely disregard all the material I've posted. If the Pope associates himself with an upside and bent cross, both Satanic, and waves his hands around signalling the sign for the devil, then what am I to think? Why the hell is the Vatican associating itself with obelisks which is Baal's penis? Answer these questions!
And why have I lost all credibility when citing Masons? Did you know that the devil can cite scriptures? Does this make him a Christian?
Unfortunately with many Catholics they don't realize they have been blinded by Satan when they view the Vatican as good. I cannot make you see the obvious. I assume you were brought up as a child in Catholicism. That makes it even harder to permeate people.Well Claire, you begain this by asking a question about evil in the Church and you asked for an honest answer. I have given you an honest answer.
But you evidently have some other motive here and I'm just not interested anymore. I will pray for you though.lstCitizen
Welcome to the hub pages
I will dream that all Religion will get along a lot better in the future
It's starting to come true because most people I meet say they are spiritual rather than Religious
Well, I have to say Claire this is a no brainer.
I am no fan of the RCC, but I don't call them Satanic and evil and wonder why I"M getting attacked.
You're forgetting that you are doing the attacking and others are defending.
I don't believe this but I'll use it as an example of how your comments stir up emotions.
YOU can be seen as Satanic and Evil and I can back it up. You spread fear and hatred against fellow christians and you feel no remorse. Catholics feel they are just a right as you and yet you are spreading Hate propaganda towards them. That is Satanic and Evil.
Again, I don't believe the previous statement, but anyone can spread hate towards a group or person.And what if it is a fact? People can defend their position without getting into attack mode. Take for instance 1stCitizen. He answered the question in a calm and mature way.
I suppose Jesus was Satanic for coming to bring a sword and causing division in families because of the truth. No, I will not feel remorse when it comes to exposing evil. And Rad Man, have I ever condemned regular Catholics? It's the Vatican I have a problem with. If you condemned the Crusaders are you now condemning all the Christians?I agree with you on the Vatican for different reasons, but calling them Satanic only makes most laugh and a few yell. You will convince no one this way. Regular Catholics as you call them don't see the distinction between them and the Vatican. Remember Sinéad O'Connor?
I do not care if they laugh. I do not care if they are convinced or not. It only matters that the truth gets out there.
I wouldn't call the catholic church satanic, but it is definitely a corrupt organization. I was raised catholic, left the church as an adult. I don't follow religion anymore but I do see where you are coming from in regards to the catholic church.
The symbols make it very obvious it's Satanic.
Ah dear, when I first posted a reply to this forum topic I thought it was a reasonable comment that deserved some responses but all this nonsense about Satanic hand gestures and phallic symbols? Please! Talk about going too far. I'm no great fan of the Pope, but would he really, deliberately, make a Satanic hand gesture in public? I have to laugh.
It's a fact that the obelisk represents Baal's shaft (his phallus). He can make a deliberate Satanic hand gesture in public because most people are too dull to pick it up or take it seriously. This Satanists can also say, "Oh, I meant to say "rock on" or "I love you".
Wow! You are really out there, aren't you? You see evil in everything, apparently.
Ah, but you, in your infinite wisdom, picked right up on the secret handshake, right?
What a hoot! 
It wasn't a secret handshake, obviously.
You say "obviously" like everyone agrees with you. I assure you, they do not!
A handshake is when one person puts their hand into another. Clearly that wasn't seen.
Really? Egg Shells are fun to walk on... they sort of make a nice Crackly sound... Very much like the crackling and popping of peoples brains when they hear something that they know in thier hearts is the truth but that they do not want to hear.. Snap Crackle Pop and Fizz... then comes the reaction: Attack the Messenger!!! (Sounds like the same way the prophets were attacked by the Pharisees and rulers in their day... and then later... Jesus was attacked and killed by the Pharisees and rulers of the Jews in his time as well ... But Just remember... Jesus told us "Take up your Cross and follow ME" That means Jesus not Mary... and the Cross means they will probably assassinate you for doing so... (Either in character... or in Real life.) Just keep following Jesus.
I do believe people think there is some truth in what they say so they try and catch me saying something false so that it gives them excuse to dismiss EVERYTHING I say. Or they just make up stuff like me hating the whole of humanity. Why are all these people still hanging around my threads when they despise what I say?
The worship of Mary is just plain wrong and is not biblical. It's actually Isis worship.
Thanks for stopping by!Claire, I don't despise what you say at all. You are correct in that Catholics should not worship Mary. They worship everyone that is sainted for different reasons.
I hang around because I just can't wait for what you will say next. I'm trying to get a glimpse inside you mind. Something is going on in there and I just want to know what. I do hope you are stable and seeing someone. This is not meant as an insult, but is only drawn from concern.Some do, Rad Man. Some people jump down my throat. I can't say I think of you as one of those.
I am 100% stable, I assure you. I most certainly would not sound reasonable in things that can be proven. When it comes to the Holy Spirit, however, it defies all reason so those who preach about Him automatically sound unreasonable.
Jesus was called mad by His own family because calling Himself the son of God sounded very wacko. Like a David Koresh?
Mark 3:20-21
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Accused by His Family and by Teachers of the Law
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[a] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”Let's imagine for just a second that every word in the bible is factual. If at that time his own family thought he was crazy what does that tell you. Shouldn't his father and mother have know who he was? Were they not told? Going of topic here a little but, if my wife was a virgin and pregnant I would be a little confused about a lot of things. One, married women don't remain a virgin for long and Two, he must have been told how this pregnancy occurred or he wouldn't remain. So, if he knew this baby was the son of God, why would he think him crazy? Way to many problems with this story. You see this is how indoctrination works. You are taught not to listen to me because it's Satan trying to get in. But it's not like that at all.
It tells you that what is not logical is very hard to believe without faith. Now Joseph was dead by the time this incident happened. He was convinced that Mary was carrying the son of God because of the angel that appeared to Him. Obviously Mary was, too, convinced. It is not clear if she was present or not when Jesus was called crazy. She most certainly wouldn't have called Him crazy but I've heard his siblings thought He was a bit weird. However, it was probably Jesus' extended family that thought He was nuts. In Mark 4:31 it says, "The Jesus' mother and brothers arrived..." after he was called crazy.
It is only natural to accuse someone of being crazy that person is not understood. If someone said they were the son of God today, I'd not believe him. We tend to want facts. I'm a logical person except when it comes to my faith. Logic and faith do not go hand in hand. The thought of someone rising from the dead with all His wounds healed seems way out there. That is why He was not recognized when He rose from the dead. People who aren't indoctrinated always look for a rational explanation. We have doubting Thomas who even had doubts when Jesus appeared to Him!
It is only the Holy Spirit that casts out all these doubts and makes one realize that the seemingly impossible can be done. I only wish others could experience the peace and joy I have from God.I for one, believe with great faith in the Creator and I follow Jesus's teachings. However, what I found unsettling is how the Churches use those teachings. The Bible is full of conflicts, certainly, but then again it is comprised of several authors and their points of view. You and I can witness the same event and because of our individual way of looking at things, may describe the same event differently.
True, but the scriptures are all unanimous in that Jesus was crucified, died for our sins and rose from the dead. This is good enough.
It's actually amazing how close the gospels harmonize. If they were copied verbatim from another, there wouldn't be variances and sometimes contradictions, which is perfectly natural.
Actually what was said would be just as valid today, of course the family knew the score, they may have tried to ignore it, but like the elephant in the room, it would have always been there, and when Christ drew the crowds, when He showed His true self, it would be perfectly normal for those not so empowered to consider him mad.
What Christ was doing was challenging their whole belief system, and bringing them close to what God was doing, folk get very nervous when things around them challenge their cosy belief systems.
Just as you consider those who follow Him today mad, and try to shut us up so that you will not have to hear inconvenient truths..
Mark 3 7:26
Jesus retired with His disciples to the lake, and a great throng from Galilee followed Him.
Also from Judea and from Jerusalem and Idumea and from beyond the Jordan and from about Tyre and Sidon—a vast multitude, hearing all the many things that He was doing, came to Him.
And He told His disciples to have a little boat in [constant] readiness for Him because of the crowd, lest they press hard upon Him and crush Him.
For He had healed so many that all who had distressing bodily diseases kept falling upon Him and pressing upon Him in order that they might touch Him.
And the spirits, the unclean ones, as often as they might see Him, fell down before Him and kept screaming out, You are the Son of God!
And He charged them strictly and severely under penalty again and again that they should not make Him known.
And He went up on the hillside and called to Him [for Himself] those whom He wanted and chose, and they came to Him.
And He appointed twelve to continue to be with Him, and that He might send them out to preach [as apostles or special messengers]
And to have authority and power to heal the sick and to drive out demons:
[They were] Simon, and He surnamed [him] Peter; James son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, and He surnamed them Boanerges, that is, Sons of Thunder;
And Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew (Nathaniel), and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus (Judas, not Iscariot), and Simon the Cananaean [also called Zelotes], and Judas Iscariot, he who betrayed Him.
Then He went to a house [probably Peter’s], but a throng came together again, so that Jesus and His disciples could not even take food.
And when those [who belonged to Him (His kinsmen) heard it, they went out to take Him by force, for they kept saying, He is out of His mind (beside Himself, deranged)!
And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, He is possessed by Beelzebub, and, By [the help of] the prince of demons He is casting out demons.
And He summoned them to Him and said to them in parables (illustrations or comparisons put beside truths to explain them);
"How can Satan drive out Satan?, and if a kingdom is divided and rebelling against itself, that kingdom cannot stand, and if a house is divided (split into factions and rebelling) against itself, that house will not be able to last, nd if Satan has raised an insurrection against himself and is divided, he cannot stand but is [surely] coming to an end."
Later those powers were extended to all believers who would receive them, they still function today, and people still try to pretend that this is not all real, but it is, and although you may not see what is happening in the spiritual realm, it continues, and those who are called to combat it, are still doing the same as Christ did back then, and still meeting the same resistance to the truth.-
The world has waited for proof. Surely, someone as powerful as yourself could offer something. Other than mindless rantings.
Give us a miracle. Something simple. Make my laptop move. Or post a video of you walking on water. That should do it.I was reading these last few comments...And one would think, that Jesus' mother would have believed everything he said and did...After all, She would have been the one person who would have known for positive sure who he was, right?
I think an early poster had a valid point. I am curious as to why some of these things never get questioned by the "christian types" (I know why of course, but still)
And some of these folks seem very intelligent, one would think...well never mind...Of course Mary would have known, Joseph also, and probably the siblings, but frankly, for 30 years they have small signs (in all probability) the Temple incident, and probably many other indicators, then His ministry starts and WHAM they (the family) are also made different, viewed with suspicion, just like believers are today when they start becoming active in real ministry.
Those who have not known these things are naturally suspicious, my own family questioned my sanity when I stepped outside their comfort zone, and were suspicious for two years before they accepted that things were different now, with me, and between us.
My friends were aghast at my change, and my long term business partner suggested that "Maybe just becoming an Anglican would be enough".
People outside of this are affected by a believers new behaviour, until the see the power of God working in your ministry, and see people reached and also changed by the power of God, then they either cut contact, maybe because it scares them, or see what it's about and decide whether they also will get that involved.
Most will not.
So your doubts and conclusions are to be accepted as normal, and sopmething any active believer just learns to live with.
Just a clarification.
Catholics do NOT worship Mary.
Catholics do NOT worship Saints.
We speak to them (pray to them) for their intercession before God the Father because we believe they are already standing in His presence in Heaven. Like we ask our friends on earth to pray for us, we do the same with Mary and the Saints. They are not worshiped. They do not perform miracles. Miracles may happen through their intercession.
If you have further questions, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (what the Church ACTUALLY believes and teaches) is available in its entirety online right here.
http://usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/
Happy bashing, all.Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
I think that is worship.The words of the first half of the Hail Mary are taken directly from Scripture. Luke's gospel when Mary visits her cousin Elizabeth. The second half proceeds from it. Elizabeth herself asks Mary "Who am I that the mother of my lord should come to me?"
It is not worship. It is called honor.
That paid to the saints is honor (in latin - dulia)
That paid to Mary is high honor (hyperdulia)
Notice we do not ask Mary to take us to Heaven only to pray for us at the hour of our death.
Again, happy bashing. Hopefully you'll only run into folks who don't know what they're talking about.
Neither Mary nor the saints are worshiped - they are venerated.You are splitting hairs. It's worship when you pray to mary or a saint because you think they have the power to help. You can call it something different if you like, but praying to someone other than God is worship. Not that Catholics are any more wrong than any other Christian.
I suppose there is no sense in arguing in the grand scheme of things. Catholics who know and are comfortable with their faith feel no need to convert others to their way of thinking/believing.
I always just hope that people will come to understand the difference as we see it.
Till then, I'm all about peaceful disagreement.I personally don't care what or who they worship. I just wish they would start treating women and children with the respect they give to themselves. I do have a big problem with the way they say they can't change the rules about women, but change all the rules regarding themselves. It's about time they start protecting children from a system that preys on children.
Children are preyed upon all around the world, in places of faith and in secular societies as well. I agree that it is abhorrent regardless of where it happens. You are perfectly reasonable in your criticism there.
I agree with the basic tenets of my faith, which is why I've chosen to follow it. There are things I pray to change everyday, and until then, I let my conscience guide me and trust that God will be more concerned that I lived according to the dictates of compassion and reason than that I followed man made doctrine to the letter.Two things,
1. Children are prayed upon all around the world, but the RRC is set up to commit these crimes and get away with them. They don't allow these priests to marry, and they expose them to children and then they protect the priest from persecution with an army of lawyers. Do you really think with all the money the vatican has, lawyers should be fighting tooth and nail to protect these priests from being prosecuted? And when there is a settlement the money never comes from the vatican, it comes from money raised in local areas. Shameful.
2. Why expose a daughter of any young girl to a situation that makes no excuses for being sexist? What happens in a girls mind when the Church she attends, that is supposed preach equality and fairness say she can become a priest because is only a girl? It always confuses me when I see a mother dragging her family to church on Sunday morning to learn that God is a sexist.Again, not trying to convert you...or to convince you of anything.
I agree with all my heart that the molestation of children and its cover up in the Church is wrong. Yes, the Church has made it very easy to hide crimes by priests - and has put children in danger on more than one occasion. You do not need to convince me - and I am not justifying it.
Being unmarried does not cause, nor does it encourage pedophilia. Nor does homosexuality. And there are people in the world who choose to be celibate while living as a single person. That doesn't mean they're going to molest your children. The Catholic Church is not "set up" to foster pedophilia. That's absurd. Do they run all the child sex trafficking organizations as well? Be reasonable.
If you don't want your children educated or brought up in the Catholic Church, do not baptize them, and raise them to the best of your ability without the Church. That's your much cherished prerogative. If someone is trying to convince me that indeed the Church is satanic, much like Claire was, I will respectfully agree to disagree, but I will NEVER justify or excuse the history of the Church, so there's no need for you to point out the flaws of the Church as though I'm somehow hoodwinked and unaware of them or trying to tell you, or anyone else that they don't exist.
My only comment would be that Mary is dead, and venerated as she deservedly is for being Christ's mother, she is still as equally dead as every other person who has died, and will not be regenerated until the resurrection, along with everyone else in Christ who has ever died.
I see no special provision for Mary to escape 'soul death' in scripture, and plenty of scripture that backs soul death until the resurrection.
This would make prayer to her redundant?
Please correct me if I am wrong.The teaching of the Church is that those who are dead are alive in Christ - which means in Heaven already awaiting the final resurrection.
Hence the veneration is to souls who are living in Heaven now.Guess this is one of those areas where we can agree to differ, and it's not a 'deal breaker' on salvation, so there is no problem.
I pray in the name of Christ to God, I see no need or benefit in praying to any other entity, but I guess folk do as they feel on this.
Are you sure you got the right verse?
Acts 12:15
Amplified Bible (AMP)
15 They said to her, You are crazy! But she persistently and strongly and confidently affirmed that it was the truth. They said, It is his angel!My point was that believers in the beginning firmly believed that Peter, if dead, could have appeared as an angel. Why would they think that?
Where did Stephen go when he was stoned?Emile, we are examining an area that has scant knowledge given to us, the 'best' scriptures on both sides of the debate are at best inconclusive, so folk choose which way they wish to believe and follow that.
Like I just wrote, I pray in the name of Christ to God the Father, and see no benefit or need to pray to ANY other entity, living or dead.
To me the scriptures indicate soul sleep for all, to others they see us all instantly with Christ and God in 'heaven'.
We will find out what happens when we cross the divide.
I am content to await that.Sounds reasonable. But, if you are content to wait, your prior posts on this topic (when talking to Motown in this thread) say otherwise. Why post forcefully in contradiction and then immediately concede it is a point that can not be known?
You're up early.... contested because I hold a different view, and maybe the other person would offer a reasoned scriptural argument that may correct me if I were wrong, however "The teaching of the Church is that those who are dead are alive in Christ - which means in Heaven already awaiting the final resurrection." does not constitute that, and if someone wishes to believe something because their church told them it is correct, I have no problem with that, nor reason to challenge their belief.
My beliefs have been established after searching for what I believe to be the fact, I quickly stopped following church doctrines when I came to faith, when I realised that those teaching them rarely had a clear understanding of them, or had reached those conclusions independently.
They also had been taught to teach what they were taught themselves.
I will say that in the essentials I am a traditional church believer, in that having examined the Apostles Creed I can agree with it.
Apart from that I am still examining non essentials, and will continue to change my opinion, as and when fresh information corrects my errors of interpretation or understanding.
The word of God is a living work.
But that's why I discontinued the issue, it's not important, in that we all find out eventually, and there is no downside that would affect salvation in the issue.John, if I were going to argue the point scripturally, which seems to be what most most of the HP Christians prefer - I would point you to 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 - those 'asleep' in Christ are not thought by the Church (Christian church in general) to be dead in the spirit. They live now in Heaven and will return with Christ.
I'm sure you don't mean to imply that Catholics are illiterate when it comes to Scripture - I am anything but. When I tell you what the Church teaches, it is so that the differences in doctrine are understood. If you ever wish to know how Church teaching is born of Scripture, please feel free to ask me and I'll point you back to it's Scriptural origin.Actually, I had overslept this morning.
Your response is, again, reasonable. I would simply point out that anyone who has read the Bible in depth understands that anything (and I mean anything) you want to find is there. It has been my observation that believers find the unifying thread within the text that agrees with their personal philosophy and then they run with it. As do we all, on whichever path we are on.
If you concede that the issue really isn't important; why start such an exchange in the first place? It simply appears that such a course creates animosity for the sake of animosity.Emile, in this instance you are the one keeping this alive, and as Motown2Chitown pointed out my and her statementds are "so that the differences in doctrine are understood."
I am not nor ever have been a member of the Roman Catholic Church, nor will I join it in the future I suspect, however I and every believer is a member of Christ's Catholic Church, in the fullest sense of the word, meaning 'universal' i.e. there can ONLY be one body of Christ.
The RCC insist that they are the ONLY true church, and all others are heretics, and the Protestant churches insist that Rome is Satanic in essence, and both are wrong.
Motown2Chitown and I no doubt appreciate our differences in doctrine but have chosen to be where God placed us, I am not one who says that any RCC member is wrong or satanic, or in error, indeed I reckon that 98% of the RCC doctrines are correct, I just seem to have been appointed to NOT be in the traditional church, and to be in a position where I see some of the error in ALL of what I term Churchianity, yet recognise that God has hidden His remnant amongst all (or at least most) of the church doctrines that exist.
I will defend or deny any religious action that I see as contrary to the word and spirit of God, that does not make me right, nor would I claim to be, and yes I am answerable for what I teach and preach, and that does make me more intense to TRY and get it right.
The essential aspect of this is that where I can be shown, scripturally that I am wrong, I want to be right, so repenting and changing direction is not a problem.
Problems arise when someone clings to dogma that they have not been a Berean with, nor studied to be approved over said doctrine or dogma.
And Motown2Chitown, I would never insinuate or imply that Catholics are illiterate, I have many excellent believing RCC friends who are highly intelligent, and quite a lot that stay in their churches because that is where God put them, even when they can see the 2% that is error, and why not, because unless God tells you to move, you should stay.
Luther never had any intention of NOT being a Roman Catholic, nor did Wesley ever want to not be an Anglican, it was the church bodies that threw them out.I didn't intend to keep anything alive. I was asking for clarification. But, you knew that.
I have no doubt that you did not mean to imply that. I just know others who have and I think I had a bit of a knee jerk reaction there. Sorry about that.
As for Luther and Wesley, you are OH SO RIGHT. They only wanted to right wrongs in their respective Churches and bring about a renewal from within - they never desired to exit and begin anew.
And, Emile, I just want to thank you for being so open minded about the things I express in forums, whether you agree or not, you are always rational and kind. That's a killer combo.Yours might very well be the minority opinion where I am concerned, but thanks.
I think we are all shooting in the dark spiritually, there is little point in brandishing our weapons haphazardly.I tend to be in the minority where most folks are concerned...lol The fact that I am respectful to Mark is enough to make most of my brothers and sisters want to flay me alive. But, I don't care. All that matters to me is that I'm kind, compassionate, and loving to everyone I come into contact with - even in the most intense disagreements. And, right now, I know that my faith is faith, not fact. I don't try to sell it as such, and I don't believe I'd be who God created me to be if I didn't ask LOTS of questions.
I was going to make more Jokes.. but ... forget it.. its too serious really.. Have you ever seen the different versions of "Mary"... The Catholic Mary has nothing to do with the mother of Jesus... I mean really you can take you pick of which "Mary or Maria" you want cause there are thousands of them... they range from the mundane Gothic styles from old europe.. to the outright Satanic junk that you would find in santeria worship of south and central america and other forms that blend well with the Dark Afrikan witchcrafts and other forms of Satanism... All roads lead to rome.. and as long as you pay your taxes nobody gets hurt.... right?
"All roads lead to rome.. and as long as you pay your taxes nobody gets hurt.... right?"
Except little children.Those are ancient roads, more like the roads led to the US, which now changing to a Global economy which changes the story again
I think there's a danger in any religion where there's a leader who is supposed to somehow be closer to God then other mere mortals. It sounds as if the Vatican is just another organisation with power-hungry individuals trying to get to the top. Kind of goes against what I think religion should be about, although having said that, the Catholic Church as a whole also does do a lot of good charity work around the world. There's also a lot of superstition rather than religion around some aspects of the church too. I'll never forget when my son was christened my mother-in-law told me to not wash his head for a couple of days, so the holy water could sink in. I mean really? What did she think it was going to do?
Evil people often do charity work to divert attention away from their evil.
Unfortunately, often than promoting a healthy personal relationship with God, religion often turns people weird and unreasonable. It's probably got to do with fear of hell.
To be honest, I do get a irritated, and often angered, when people try to coerce others into their religion by making threats. It has the opposite affect and repels people.
Claire, I could waffle on but time is short in the Last Days so I'll be to the point - the RCC is heavily satanic.
Satanists use the RCC mass as a template for a satanic Black Mass.
When catholic priests call down "jesus" into the wafer, they are practicing WITCHCRAFT. Any time a priest/"holy man" calls up a spirit its not christianity, its witchcraft.
I recalled once I saw a comment by an occult Alchemist, who said the catholic mass was "magic par excellence - it cannot be improved upon".
Imagine whole congregations of well meaning people participating in a magic occult rite and unaware of it?
And the RCC has persistent child abuse issues that just wont go away - why? They have "doctrines of demons" forbidding priests to marry.
The RCC is full of occult practices and is *not* christian.
People walk on egg shells around them because they have large POLITICAL clout and as history has shown will kill people also who severely question them, and they generally dont tolerate anything but complete blind obedience. That isnt Christianity.
Add to that the aggression you get from them when you question their faith and most of them you'd happily avoid.
The RCC is a black hole for human souls and a massive demon "magnet".
May God open the good Catholic peoples eyes before its too late.
Because claiming that the vatican has been infiltrated by the Satanic Superforce is pretty comical.
Not really. When a Jesuit Vatican insider and a Pope himself says so then I don't think it's comical.
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
So the church has decided to improve, after all!!!I watched a show on tv last night. Ancient Aliens. At least four people were interviewed who believe that ancient aliens genetically altered humans and animals to develop species who would mine gold for them. Do I automatically accept that as true? Two were archeologists.
Was I wrong to laugh?If the Bible pretty much nails it down to that in Revelation 17-18 then that settles it for me. Vatican is the city on 7 hills... and that thing they call marry is another matter.
- Emile Rposted 12 years ago
0Claire, aqua expresses a more compassionate way of complaining about the Catholic church and I think janesix is correct.
What fascinates me is how Christians continue to belittle each other's faiths, but insist their own is divinely inspired. The faithful Catholic is no different from the faithful Baptist or any faithful believer. That is the window they found to understand their God.
You, and all others, demand respect for your beliefs. A modicum of respect for the position of the pope is useful when respecting the belief of a catholic. If the average believer respected other believers, that believer would get more respect.
And, to be honest, catholic means universal...correct? Sometimes I wonder if the disrespect of catholics isn't jealousy. The person speaking thinks they have the truth. They want their belief to be universal. They want to be in the position of the catholic church.If I say you are or what you believe is satanic, that is just telling you the facts.
But if you say I'm paranoid and delusional with irrational beliefs, it is ATTACK, PERSONAL ATTACK. It proves you are satanic and I'll report and ban you.But what if it is matter of fact that the person IS paranoid and delusional with irrational beliefs?
Why is it not an attack to call someone satanic but not any of the others?
I hope you were being sarcastic, it's hard to tell on here...Or gosh, shock horror, I cannot believe this.....
Maybe they are only 'paranoid and delusional with irrational beliefs' in your opinion, because your thinking has been infiltrated and personality shaped by hostile spiritual entities that you deny exist?
Or are these rhetorical questions only one sided?My point is that it works both ways. Since satan has never been proven to exist, then that is just an opinion.
Well it's an opinion you are basing a whole lot of your destiny upon.
Satans existence is not my opinion. I base my "destiny" on evidence and facts, not what some guy down the road thinks he knows.
So before the earth was proven to be round if was only an opinion to say so and not the truth yet?
I didn't say anything about truth. I was stating that the claim satan exists, is not based on any facts hence it is just an opinion. It may be truth but if noone has knowledge of that truth, any claim of such is just opinion.
Similarly, if noone has ever seen any evidence or knows anything about the shape of the earth, and one simply claims it is round based on no facts at all, then that would still be an opinion although it would be coincidentally true (unbeknown to the claimant).Are you telling me that nobody has knowledge of Satan? Have you been in the shoes of every person that ever existed? Over thousands of years people have reported demonic activities. Are they ALL wrong?
It's 'inconvenient' for folk to go anywhere near allowing that the enemy exists.
If they once do that, they must examine their entire belief system.
That is why they twist and turn so radically to avoid contemplating what millions of people know to be fact.
There is a spiritual realm, there are two sides to that realm, good, represented by Christ and evil, represented by the enemy, and ALL humanity will serve one team or the other.If everyone who does not have a strong faith in Christ suddenly had a realization that Satan existed they'd be terrified. Too terrified to believe it. It's the brain's way of coping. There are even some Christians who don't believe the devil exists.
I'll tell you this much, if I didn't have a strong faith I'd block out the truth of evil. I would try and convince myself the truth isn't real. Often people do that my mocking others who do know the truth.
For example, there are some people who find it horrifying to believe the US government was complicit in 9-11 so they mock conspiracy theorists as "nuts" to convince themselves it isn't true.I think evil is a hard concept for most people to conceive in its entirety,myself included.
But, if we could be humble enough to know that is bigger than us, then that revelation in itself should be make us , at least pause.True. We know but a tiny fraction of what true evil is.
For Jesus to have sweated blood before He took on the full extent of evil means there is evil we cannot endure and comprehend.
Yes, evil mainly works behind the scenes. We see products of it like 9-11 but what happened to bring it together? What evil went into that? We don't know.
If there is a terrorist attack at London's Olympics this year, I reckon it will be worse than 9-11.The Catholic Church is going to attack the London Olympics?
Christianity in general is attacking common sense methods of living... with their brain poison and soul destroying doctrines.
The only protection is baptismal and a tin foil hat. Here... hold this battery cable and I'll run and get them for you!
Nah, It will be a Rothschild front organisation again, probably dressed up as Al whatever, and I guess they will use Mossad again to do the deed.
Should be an interesting Olympics.And, apparently, quite a busy one! Competitive on the sports AND terrorism fronts.
Mark my words - it will be an Olympic sport in a few years time.
I'm sort of surprised it hasn't become one already - they just must not be able to organize the funding just yet.
"...and here comes Ahmed running like a gazelle with 25kilos of high explosive taped to his body, what amazing strength he is showing and ...Oh look there's a side block being carried out by the Westboro Baptists, who are using their placards as catapults to launch burning Quorans in his path, but he dodges them expertly after years of training in Gaza, OH NO he's been brought down by a member of the Rapid Defence Force Israeli Slingshot Team who has caught him with a classic Goliath shot to the forehead, and HE'S EXPLODED, and what a splendid sight that is, as his handlers have added multiple copper nails to the vest he wore and the display is just stunning"
Like that you mean?I was parodying the Great Marks comment, I am well aware it is not funny, indeed, I would like to get my remaining UK family away from the 'event', but that is in Gods hands.
I hope you, me and Wesman are wrong, but three witnesses....?
There's a high probability. More likely than not.
It's Mossad and not the Catholic Church. My comment was ambiguous to someone else.
No, I was talking about evil in general. It's going to be Israel. If you look at the logo for 2012 in the Olympics logo, it will spell "Zion". There is a black widow spider monument in London. When asked why it is a spider, the Lord Mayor of London replied, "To keep with the theme of Zion".
Of course every knows that a black widow spider is associated with death.
If you are interested in more, watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ny_8ZGj … plpp_video
LAWL
What nonsense.
No wonder your religion spawns so many terrorists.
Claire. Get real. Thinking the US government was involved in 9-11is not the same as saying Satan rules the world. We can verify that George Bush and Dick Cheney exist.
I find it hilarious to say that those who don't see evidence of Satan fear the truth. It is exactly the opposite. Those who insist Satan exists fear the truth. So much so that they insist he is everywhere.
You, and others like you, in your mad rush to fabricate scenarios to explain the problems in the world are working against solutions. How could we find a solution to a powerful and invisible evil god? You insist on being at the mercy of the fates. You willfully bow to the problems...allowing them to fester.
I don't want to ever be that weak.So be it.
1 Corinthians 1 18:29
Amplified Bible (AMP)
For the story and message of the cross is sheer absurdity and folly to those who are perishing and on their way to perdition, but to us who are being saved it is the [manifestation of] the power of God.
For it is written, I will baffle and render useless and destroy the learning of the learned and the philosophy of the philosophers and the cleverness of the clever and the discernment of the discerning; I will frustrate and nullify [them] and bring [them] to nothing.
Where is the wise man (the philosopher)? Where is the scribe (the scholar)? Where is the investigator (the logician, the debater) of this present time and age? Has not God shown up the nonsense and the folly of this world’s wisdom?
For when the world with all its earthly wisdom failed to perceive and recognize and know God by means of its own philosophy, God in His wisdom was pleased through the foolishness of preaching [salvation, procured by Christ and to be had through Him], to save those who believed (who clung to and trusted in and relied on Him).
For while Jews [demandingly] ask for signs and miracles and Greeks pursue philosophy and wisdom,
We preach Christ (the Messiah) crucified, [preaching which] to the Jews is a scandal and an offensive stumbling block [that springs a snare or trap], and to the Gentiles it is absurd and utterly unphilosophical nonsense.
But to those who are called, whether Jew or Greek (Gentile), Christ [is] the Power of God and the Wisdom of God.
[This is] because the foolish thing [that has its source in] God is wiser than men, and the weak thing [that springs] from God is stronger than men.
For [simply] consider your own call, brethren; not many [of you were considered to be] wise according to human estimates and standards, not many influential and powerful, not many of high and noble birth.
[No] for God selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is foolish to put the wise to shame, and what the world calls weak to put the strong to shame.
And God also selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing, that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are,
So that no mortal man should [have pretense for glorying and] boast in the presence of God.agree
Claire, think of Satan as low energy, not high energy if you really need a bad guy in your life. Then Satan become not so bad, then killing and fighting slows downAnd that is exactly what the enemy wishes you to think, well done, your spiritual development is in capable hands, and you are progressing well along the wide road to....?
Funny how any who disagree with you are oin the wide road to....
Get a grip. You aren't God no matter what you've convinced yourself. Sorry everyone gets that, but you.Wow.
I'll tell you this much, evil is really going to rear up it's ugly head from this year onwards.
To want to made clear, I agree with Emile
aguasilver reminds me of a bad movie Aguaman
Yahweh is your World Host and he Boast the Most and all the rest are Toastaguasilver
And that is exactly what the enemy wishes you to think, well done, your spiritual development is in capable hands, and you are progressing well along the wide road to....
How would I want to belong to Satan, he exist in your mind, not mine.
You are the one who marriages Satan with God, I don't even want to be one of your Adam family in-laws in this horrible mix marriage of enemies.
The gift I can offer you is to live and let live and get along with most of the people on earth who are not Christians or most of the Christian who are Catholics.
OH LOOK!!!! Satan is hanging around the next corner of the building!!!
Good luck with that.
Millions of people have reported experiencing completely different gods. They can't all be right so yes, many people can all be wrong.
I was talking about Satan which is not bound by one religion. And Satan comes in the form of many gods.
Is Yahweh the true name for your God, because there so many christian names for God and so many domination of those God with differenent names, Could most of these Christian Gods be Satan, let alone the 10,000 other religion's GodS?
No, it isn't. I've heard people say that Yahweh is actually Satan.
It doesn't matter what the name is, all I know is that there is a God of good and a "god" of evil. Evidence of the battle between good and evil is there.
How do you know for sure, that it is not you who is infiltrated?
Maybe because I have worked on both teams, and I know the difference?
If I had 'encountered' you when I worked for the enemy, you would most certainly have been suffering some unexplained health issues a long time ago, as it is, we just ask God to bless you and reveal Himself to you.
BTW, if you ever come across a Satanist, I suggest you just walk away from the discussion, they do not play nice.You worked with 'for' god and 'against' god teams, not no god teams,
I just checked the satanic church rules, they appear similar if not better than the rules played by Christians.I worked for the 'no god' team (as you describe it)for the first 35 years of my life, then I slipped into the enemy team, and finally, having recognised who was pulling my strings, defected by election to God via Christ.
If you find the 'rules' of Satanism "better than the rules played by Christians." I would suggest you are more infiltrated than I first thought.
The Nine Satanic Statements from The Satanic Bible, ©1969
by Anton Szandor LaVey
1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
Small wonder that this perversion is so attractive to those who seek to reject Christ.Those are the same rules Christians live by, though you give lip service to loving your neighbor. At least the satanists are not hypocrites.
If there is no god, how can you be against god?
You decided before hand there is god and you are against him. Then you later became for him.
Saying there is no god for some personal reasons or just not liking bible and not doing it is not 'no god' team.
And why only two are bolded?Bold because they are the most damning quotes of a belief system that you find acceptable over Christianity.
It amazes me that you cannot see the danger in your thinking, or the unseen hand of the enemy in your mind.
Anyhow, you say none of this is real, none of this exists, and that is your prerogative, and your error."Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!"
You didn't see the gratification part? I do not know about the Christians, but killing or stealing or anything like that is not going to bring gratification to me!
It just means do what is Good for you without infringing other people's right(for that will not bring satisfaction) and that is what everybody is doing.
Not turning the other cheek, it doesn't say go and beat others, it only say when somebody comes to attack you, don't let them.(so many Buddhist were killed because they really turned the other cheek and the Christians are the dominant religion because they ignored 'to turn the other cheek')
Unless you can clearly define 'exist' and explain how Satan, a concept, can exist, 'evil exists' is just an opinion, lacking rationality and logic. If somebody speak to you without reason and logic you will simply ignore him, won't you? That is the same treatment you'll get, when you say Satan exist, may be even ridiculed.I will be content to let your own words show the error of your thinking.
I need say no more, your words show your confusion and the effects of discounting the enemy, or his ability to infiltrate and pervert your thought processes.
I have no interest in playing your little "Unless you can clearly define 'exist'" game, it is futile designed only to appease your deepest fears.
If I tell you not to go in the water, because there is a shark waiting to kill you, and you decide to go into the water because I cannot "clearly define (that the shark) 'exist'" then you are foolish, but entitled to still go swimming, and deserve what you will get.
Some folk only accept the truth when it literally bites them.Other than this statement, the rest is all gibberish.
If you are telling me there is a shark in my pond, you surely have to do some explaining, don't you?
You'll have to explain if you tell there is a cadabara in the water you'll have to say what it is and why it is dangerous.
In spite of shark being dangerous people have gone near them and studied them.
So when you say 'Satan' (a being nobody has ever seen or heard from, a being which is different for different people, a being by definition is a concept that is, a human construct) has infiltrated, you really got a lot to explain.
Suppose I say
All Indonesian(or whichever country you are from, I've a vague memory you said your are from Asia) support human rights
All satanists support human rights and hence all Indonesian's are satanists, though you may not be able to spot the exact logical fallacy, you will still know it is a fallacy and will tell me I'm wrong.
The same is your case, riddled with logical fallacies and contradictions.
Unlike you, I've no confusion. Morality is doing oneself and others Good, no god or Satan needed. If you are confused by bible which advocates slavery as Good, I can't help you.Your analogy bears some relevance but is slightly different in that you don't have to believe the shark exists. Not going in the water would be a sensible move just in case, but the shark is not going to bite you and kill you just for not believing he is there if you don't go in the water and because of that the analogy is not an apt one.
Basing your actions upon your belief or lack of belief are what will kill you with the shark, but it is your actual beliefs (or lack of) that will put you in hell and you can't make yourself believe something that you deem unbelievable.
I assume from this statement that you are a true believer. Since I've not seen you answering the forum whether you are a true Christian I ask the question here.
Can you heal the sick by putting your hands on them?
Can you drink poison without it causing any effect on you?
If you cannot do any of These, you are not a true believer and hence you are the satanist.Yes, and have done so.
I would not knowingly drink poison, that would be testing Gods word, and my trust is sufficient, however I may well have 'drunk poison' unknowingly, and there have been instances where I have consumed the same as others and seen them sicken, whilst I stayed healthy, so maybe I have but not been aware of it.
You choose two issues to decide your question.
Perhaps the relevant issue would be 'Can believers do the same as Christ did, in His ministry', and the answer to that would also be yes, I know many believers who have the ability to cast out demons, heal the sick and set people free from the world system.
Jomine, there is no point in our continuing this discussion, you cannot perceive things as any believer can, so it is futile.
I wish you well.Then can you heal some terminally ill cancer patients who really needed healing, or those who's limbs were amputated or are handicapped from birth, not some hysterical patients?
No, as I already said, I made that in to a forum and don't want to type it all again.
When somebody tell you something, how do you know whether it is right or not? You will accept it even if he says a circle is triangular, won't you?Jomine, there is no point in our continuing this discussion, you cannot perceive things as any believer can, so it is futile.
Yes I am repeating myself, because you obviously did not read that.Then I'll repeat in a language you can understand.
You say a believer can make sense out of nonsense. I have no problem with that, but for me a nonsense is just that, nonsense. So I'll ridicule and make fun of all nonsense.Like I said, I will let your words stand so that any readers can draw their own conclusions.
Have fun ridiculing and making fun of all that you consider nonsense.
Personally, I have better things to do with my time.Like catching space and digging love and calling others satanists, may be.
Odd you don't understand that this is what Stan wants you to do......
Making very simple claims and then claiming that anyone who doesn't believe you is not capable of understanding is a bit of an insult to their intelligence don't you think?
No, I think it is a statement of fact, as there are a majority of people who understand me completely and don't ask inane questions.
Oh I understand you completely, I just don't believe you because you seem to have no evidence or proof. Just because you think people don't understand you does not make it a matter of fact.
Maybe you are just incapable of understanding rational and logical thought processes?
That's a parody by the wayI understand them very well, I just choose to reject what you are shooting for, we all know that the game is to try and deride spirituality, and your pet "no evidence or proof" whinge is worn out.
Believers have all the no evidence or proof that they need, and pandering to your exercises in futility is not part of our remit.
Have fun, gratify yourself to death, and I hope you are correct.What one is "shooting for" is totally irrelevant to ration and logic. The process remains the same regardless of the desired outcome. Are you sure you understand ration and logic? It would appear that you THINK you do, yet the evidence seems to say otherwise.
Hahahahahahahahahahah. That was a brilliant statement. Thank you.
Correct? I never made a claim
Which only means, there are more people who are dishonest with themselves than there are those who are honest with themselves.
Making any religious statements as facts is actually lying. It's too bad you fail to realize it.
I'm with you jomine, the Christian med evil times gig is up, we will shrink these kind of mammal (by the way Man is an animal,too) down to the true bureaucracy-crocks they are.
To point a finger at the largest Christian group like the Catholics and call them untrue Christians. Is really pointing 3 fingers back at yourself -aguasilver.Then why didn't you put your hand on your daughter and healed her?
She is healed.
Been fit free now for over two years.
Praise the Lord.-
How odd you are here pushing colloidal silver.Don't push anything Mark, not coffee machines or website SEO or any of the other stuff you commercials write about, I post as Agua as that was my trading name in Spain before the health Gestapo closed me down, and I write about CS because it helps folk, I don't sell it.
Just pointing out the hypocrisy. Why would you need to help folks with material world stuff? You can just say the majik - right?
Seeing as you are focused on the spiritual.........................Don't knock it Mark. I see holistic remedies as my ticket to a free doctorate.
I think I will get my doctorate in homeopathy. I don't suppose you know any websites that offer genuine recognised UK accepted doctorates for homeopathy do you?Better to go straight for a Naturopathic Doctor course, about three years and much broader in scope, homoeopathy is a long course!
Just Google: naturopathy courses uk distance learning
1. Most of the folk I reach do not actually live within 'hand laying' distance of me, Penang is a long way from the northern hemisphere.
2. God created CS as well, it's one of the tools He gave us to heal, however science invented antibiotics and they are profitable, so natural gets banned by the FDA and BigPharma make $3 billion a year on antibiotics.
What I do not do is prostitute myself writing articles in order to get folk to click and give me money.Ah - good for you. How do you feed your family - as you judge me so harshly? Prostitute huh? Dear me. I wonder what Jesus said about that?............
I am setting up a global overseas foreign workers remittance program which will reduce drastically the cost of remittances home, therefore assisting the worker, their home country (higher GDP returned) and the family back home.
We also do payroll systems for companies and merchant gateway accounts.
A percentage of what we make is donated to various charities, mainly ones which help children and the homeless.
How do you earn yours?Prostituting myself according to you.
Which is way below you I see.
I wonder what Jesus would have said about that.
Your self righteousness is some what distasteful, but understandable - given your need to be superior.Self righteous Mark?
I do what I do because God opened the doors and showed me something I could do that actually helps the lowest paid workers to save money, we trade with normal companies and that makes income, there is nothing rocket science about it, nor am I special, blessed maybe, and provided for, but the Glory goes to God for I could not do this without His blessings.
We provide debit cards and virtual bank accounts, which gives equal banking opportunities to the under-banked and those who cannot get normal bank accounts because their income is too low or they are unable to provide KYC that a bank will accept.
I stopped doing business that is not mutually beneficial when I came to faith, by mutually beneficial I mean where both sides benefit and the losers (in our case) would be WU, who made $2.93 billion in 2010, so I doubt they will worry, or any other commercial organisation that make excessive profits and charge a lot, we take crumbs from a rich mans table and make loaves with them, which feed those who need.
You forgot to say what you do for a living?
You asked, I did not offer, just answered your reasonable request.
This is what Jesus said:
Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stand by and be devoted to the one and despise and be against the other. You cannot serve God and mammon ( deceitful riches, money, possessions, or whatever is trusted in).
What do you trust in?
(Thats two answers you owe me!)I don't owe you anything. Your self righteousness is some what revolting, but a part of you. I get it - well done. Odd how attached you are to squeezing a few bucks out of those less fortunate than yourself. Doing it for free would be genuine charity. Casting 5% off? Not so much.
Yes - I understand how divisive "them or us" your beliefs are.
Self righteous:Now you know why normally I just ignore your jibes and shall continue to do so.
Yes - the truth hurts. Self righteous to the last.
What did Jesus say about prostitutes again?
ciaoThis about sums it up, and in any case is very much a prophesy for our times.
Revelation 17
Amplified Bible (AMP)
17 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls then came and spoke to me, saying, Come with me! I will show you the doom (sentence, judgment) of the great harlot (idolatress) who is seated on many waters,
2 [She] with whom the rulers of the earth have joined in prostitution (idolatry) and with the wine of whose immorality (idolatry) the inhabitants of the earth have become intoxicated.
3 And [the angel] bore me away [rapt] in the Spirit into a desert (wilderness), and I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was all covered with blasphemous titles (names), and he had seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was robed in purple and scarlet and bedecked with gold, precious stones, and pearls, [and she was] holding in her hand a golden cup full of the accursed offenses and the filth of her lewdness and vice.
5 And on her forehead there was inscribed a name of mystery [with a secret symbolic meaning]: Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes (idolatresses) and of the filth and atrocities and abominations of the earth.
6 I also saw that the woman was drunk, [drunk] with the blood of the saints (God’s people) and the blood of the martyrs [who witnessed] for Jesus. And when I saw her, I was utterly amazed and wondered greatly.
7 But the angel said to me, Why do you wonder? I will explain to you the [secret symbolic meaning of the] mystery of the woman, as well as of the beast having the seven heads and ten horns that carries her.
8 The beast that you saw [once] was, but [now] is no more, and he is going to come up out of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and proceed to go to perdition. And the inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been recorded in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they look at the beast, because he [once] was, but [now] is no more, and he is [yet] to come.
9 This calls for a mind [to consider that is packed] with wisdom and intelligence [it is something for a particular mode of thinking and judging of thoughts, feelings, and purposes]. The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman is sitting;
10 And they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one still exists [and is reigning]; the other [the seventh] has not yet appeared, and when he does arrive, he must stay [but] a brief time.
11 And as for the beast that [once] was, but now is no more, he [himself] is an eighth ruler (king, head), but he is of the seven and belongs to them, and he goes to perdition.
12 Also the ten horns that you observed are ten rulers (kings) who have as yet received no royal dominion, but together they are to receive power and authority as rulers for a single hour, along with the beast.
13 These have one common policy (opinion, purpose), and they deliver their power and authority to the beast.
14 They will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them; for He is Lord of lords and King of kings—and those with Him and on His side are chosen and called [elected] and loyal and faithful followers.
15 And [the angel further] said to me, The waters that you observed, where the harlot is seated, are races and multitudes and nations and dialects (languages).
16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will [be the very ones to] hate the harlot (the idolatrous woman); they will make her cheerless (bereaved, desolate), and they will strip her and eat up her flesh and utterly consume her with fire.
17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His own purpose by acting in harmony in surrendering their royal power and authority to the beast, until the prophetic words (intentions and promises) of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman that you saw is herself the great city which dominates and controls the rulers and the leaders of the earth.Ah - attacking me again. Well done. Far as I can see - Jesus didn't say any of this.
Guess you did not read your majik book.
Let me know when you have cast out your beam.
If putting people in hell is not vengeance then I don't know what is. Flooding the planet? The rapture?
Gratification is a bad thing?
None of the laws you showed were bad in any way. Just because you think that your god thinks they are does not make them bad. Many people who use their own morals have no problem with these laws.
I will not be "compassionate" when it comes to the Catholic Church. It is not to say that any other denomination is perfect but the Vatican is unquestionably evil. I think Jesus must have been accused of belittling the beliefs of the Pharisees just because he said the truth.
Let us differentiate between a church and the follower of that church. Catholics aren't Satanic. They are good people. I just believe they are ignorant of their church. Even so, it is the Vatican I have a problem with, not the individual churches you find in your area. My church, an Anglican one, obviously has aspects of Catholicism in it. Priests wear the Dagon fish hat, for example, but it doesn't make them evil.
Just to set the record straight, I was not aware that Motown was present when I spoke out against the Catholic Church. Someone else brought it up and I responded so it wasn't a dig at her.In retrospect Claire, I think I'm the one who brought up the pope and the corporations. But, it doesn't matter who brought it up because we both know this is an open forum. What is written today can stil be read tomorrow.
From your opening statement you made it clear that you are the one who cried foul to the moderators. I have a rule of trying not to interact with people on this forum who expect to have the right to insult broad groups of people, but then run for the moderators when they take offense.
So, continue on with the delusion that the Catholic church is somehow more 'evil' than any other religious attempt to sway humanity into thinking humanity, itself, is at war with cosmic forces. Apparently common sense won't stop you.The only one who can stop/cure her is not doing his job properly!
So? That doesn't stop you posting things that Christians may read and take offense to later. Anyway, people need to know the truth and the truth is not palatable.
No, it was not me that went to the moderator. When I went to Margie's blog and saw I could not reply to anyone's post, I saw that the moderator had closed the forum remarking that it was closed because of the number of valid personal attacks. I believe the moderator did the right thing. Hubpages ought to encourage civil discussions. We aren't school kids. I was afraid my forum would be seen as a continuation of Margie's so I stated that if it did then the moderator would have to step in. I actually found the last forum distressing. Usually they are okay but that specific one was getting out of control.
Common sense tells me that any Church who pledges allegiance to Satan must be Satanic. I'm not the one that made up the fact the Vatican associates itself with occult and pagan symbols.
Because after the Easter Sunday egg hunt, no one cleaned up all those shells. {crunch, crunch crunch}.
It wasn't an invention. It was just appropriated pagan traditions into the church.
Exactly ... But
This is just an opinion and it is also mine
The RCC and Islam are the two beasts which John saw rising up out of the sea in Rev. 13.
And 1000 years later it morphed into a different kind of body keeping the same head. This is something which God preordained.
THEN or should I say ... at the same time (Rev 11) ...two witnesses are sent down from heaven which infiltrates these two worldly organizations.
I say at the "same time" because the Beast mentioned in Rev. 13 is given 42 months to blaspheme the Lord. The two witnesses are given 1260 days to offer a counter testimony. Both of these time periods end approx. the same time.
1260 days is exactly 1260 days while 42 months is the same amount of time, yet it can be said that 42 months can be 1260 days give or take a few days and still be 42 months.
These time frames are prophetic references in time. 62 weeks equal approx 568 of our years.
If these things are true, the spiritual battle that people are talking about, is taking place within the churches themselves, and then spilling out into the streets.
Why was this planned this way? I don't know but I have a few ideas.Yes, the ultimate spiritual battle is happening in the churches. As I posted, the purpose of the Illuminati is to break down all religions in favour of a one world religion and that is the worship of Lucifer.
I've read a book by Perry Stone suggesting that a Muslim will be the Anti-Christ. He makes a compelling argument but I always thought he was to be Jewish. Perhaps he is half Jewish and half Muslim? I think, however, that the Vatican will be the one to groom him into power.The Ultimate spiritual reality is about the 99% unknowns. What you are talking is the over known and over ego battles of ancient Religions and worst, within their own domination
Jerami, I'm surprised. The two beasts represent the Papacy and the good ol' U.S. of A.
I am going to have a busy day today so in closing I'll just say
I know ten times as many people that do believe in God and Jesus Christ than I do that that believes in Church.
How much faith in religion did God ask us to have.
He didn't say "Have no other religion before MINE"
He did NOT say "This religion is the only one which brings you to me"
See Ya ... much later today.What everyone keeps doing is to refer to OT prophesy about the AntiChrist OR the "Little Horn" and the Dragon and the beast as described in Rev. 13, as being one entity. They are NOT the same persona according to that which is written..
Until these are separated and put into proper chronological order there will be no understanding of prophesy what so ever..According to Nostradamus, who supposedly has been correct two-for-two out of three anti-anointed, the third is to rise out of Mongul or Asia.
Personally, I have yet to see the validity of the Revelation version of anti-anointed. From everything I have studied, this letter is a front-to-back revealing of the entire event known as salvation.
James.People are in the Vatican, and people make mistakes. I think the heat behind the responses is the desire to stop all the bashing of what is intrinsically true. My theory. I'm a Catholic and accept the mistakes.
Without millions of deaths, there would be no Catholic priests.
Was it worth millions of deaths and child molestations? That continue to this day with the protection of the Holy See.
I guess you think so. Or would you throw it away to change the past?The Pope asked for forgiveness for the pass killings.
Let see if a leopard changes his spots he may get more, he may get less, still he is a leopard
We would call other churches cults EXCEPT the Catholic Church. This church has always been fixing their eyes on the Pope instead of Jesus. Sure the Roman church does a lot of good things for the lest fortunate. But drug lords do the same.
The CC will continue doing what it is doing because people continue to look up to the pope as a god. If the sexual molestations done by the CC were done by an individual they would be in jail. People are AFRAID of the church. They hold power. The pope is the only human religious leader that is repspected by all human governments.
By the way, the Vatican has a BANK. Did Jesus own a bank.
www.businessweek.com/.../vatican-bank-c … -money-...
It is interesting that the chief at the bank is removed...but priests who molest children (and all the evidence is available)
Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse | World news |
www.guardian.co.uk › News › World
They are transferred to other diocese...something is so wrong here. PERHAPS MONEY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PEOPLE. The bible says something about money...THE LOVE OF IT IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.
The CC teaching are as far away from the bible as the difference between chalk and cheese.Yes,Jesus would be helping the poor and Jesus only got angry at the money merchant at the church
So you think he would be silent at what is happening re. the abuse of children.
Parents brought their children to Jesus so he could pray for them
Mark 9:42
And WHOSOEVER (includes anyone priest or not) shall offend anyone of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
How many altar boys have been violated.Yes, a million children have been molested by Clergymen in the USA and the Catholic church protect such people.
The Pope John said he is the the light and the way to God,
Jesus is like in 6th place of importance of being spoken aboutHow many nuns have been violated? The lime pits under the convents?
I should have said allegedly, but I'm comfortable with my resource. This is not priviledged info and there have been no lawsuits. Until a few years ago I thought the same thing. But as the saying goes "what we don't know will make a whole new world."
Humans that suppress sex extremely also often enough express themselves unnaturally
What do you mean by unnaturally? If you are referring to nuns & priests, what's not natural about that? Male, female together, sooner or later something is going to happen. The fact that we are led to believe this graet act of celibacy is taken place is just one more deception.
This point is quite obvious regarding the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests and nuns. Need I say more!
I enjoy reading all the comments to this Catholics and egg shell question. While I know that Satan rules the earth, it is (now - to me) obvious he is behind organized religion as well. I guess it only makes sense if you read the bible. but on a daily basis it is something you ignore.
From what I have been learning lately in the Book of Daniel, from out of Rome came the Vatican and from those rulers will walk the Anti-Christ! That alone is enough to place fear in any Christian's heart!
When reading the book of Daniel we will see that these earthly kingdoms are without a doubt; Babylon, Persia, Grecia and the Roman Empire.
Chapter two states that Babylon is the first of four consecutive Kingdoms.
Chapter 8 identifies the second and third as Persia and Grecia.
Grecia is described as being divided into four smaller kingdoms, the fourth kingdom will rise up to power from one of these four smaller kingdoms.
If there is a person described as an antichrist in the book of Daniel; It was the little horn. (C.7:24) The fourth kingdom (Roman Empire) will have 10 kings; (Titus who destroyed the temple in 70 AD was the 10th). Another shall rise AFTER him replacing three other kings which are after the first ten kings. This is talking about the 14th emperor of the Roman Empire.
Hadrian was the 14th and last emperor to have dominion over the Hebrew Nation. Hadrian scattered the power of the Holy People as described in Daniel 12:7. A time times and an half begins at this date in history 138 AD.There will be many antichrists, not just one (1John2:18-22).
Cat claws, cat claws!!! Emile. Some people can't see. Some can see far, some can only see what is right in front of their faces. Some people can't see color, and some live lives in complete darkness. The eye is connected to the brain, and the brain can suffer the same maladies as the eye, yet leave the occular sight intact. You need to determine if there might just be a possibility that your brain needs glasses.
Well, if you think there is an entity called Satan moving us around like puppets, it might mean you are smoking from the same pipe as claire and aqua...not that I need new glasses.
Tell me, what makes you so sure Satan doesn't exist? Are you omniscient? Do you know what happens in other dimensions?
Are you omniscient claire? That's an odd opening you've provided, since we both know you aren't.
Although I lay no claims of secret knowledge, as you religious do, I do claim to know and accept what happens in this dimension and I don't pretend there is more to it than what there is.
All of this fantasy you continue to post, all of the over reaching by the church in an attempt to convince us they know more than they do and the ego driven behavior of the self righteous religious pulls our attention away from what little we do know.
If everyone could stop chasing rainbows and unicorns (or ogres and gargoyles as is your bent) and work together from a starting point of only what we know to be true; we might, collectively, make progress in our search for knowledge.
Right now, as it stands, spirituality is not much more than a circus sideshow; if the research behind this thread is any indication.Ancient spirituality can not exceed knowledge greater than 1%
Because the 99% unknown spirituality is under endless speculation and imagination until it is manifest into our ego group or ego self. Then it joins our total 1% knowledge of the world and even much less so, than 1,0% knowledge of the UniverseHaving a relationship with the Holy Spirit means you don't have to be omniscient. That's the gift. Jesus has bridged the gap between us and God.
- So, what are you saying Claire? You channel God? You've got all of the benefits of omniscience because you are somehow tethered with a mystical cord? That would be cute, if you weren't obviously serious.
Yahweh knows everything, we humans are stupid, very very stupid
If we are very stupid, how do we know enough to know Yahweh knows everything?Many believer think THEY are god's messenger. Funny how they all seem to get different messages!
Surely the messages shouldn't be in conflict with what Jesus taught?
You have no idea what Jesus taught, Claire! The closest you've ever gotten to Jesus is simply hearsay from those dead over 2,000 years.
Who are you trying to kid?
I do and only because of the Holy Spirit. What else validates the scriptures?
If you mean by benefiting from God who has omniscience, then yes. Am I omniscience? Absolutely not, thank God. God will only allow us to know what we need to know.
The proof is everywhere if you had the eyes to see it. The proof is in physics, both universal and human. The problem is is that someone has sold you a VW, told you it was a Jag, and YOU believe it.
I don't. They are, and always has been non-compliant with the original teachings of Jesus. But, the Protestants aren't much better.
Depends on what sort of "Protestants" you are talking about... Some are more the Daughters of Catholacism than others... Some are pretty near back to the Bibles... and others are just not really Protestant to begin with.. having never been in that mess to start with.
If any of them truly understood, then they would close the church doors forever, If they understood, there would be no more religion...but, we're getting close.
If any truly understood... "What" ? Sounds like your out there a ways too... oh... hence you sign on of "Druid Dude"... Ok.. never mind.
Understood the true teaching of Jesus. Don't let the monicker fool you. It's a trap to disarm you.
Yes, we are closer to the new one world religion, which is Luciferianism!
nonsense
The closest we came to One World Order or Religion was World War two
Democracy and love cannot live unless it is given oxygen. We are the oxygen. If we don't contribute, if we don't speak out, we live in fear - we hurt the world - we hurt ourselves.
God is about love and trust. If man's actions are wrong - they must be exposed. We cannot sub come to intimidation - peacefully. Evil will lurk even in what we thought were holy walls. If you find love and kindness, that is where God resides.
God is too immense for one religion to be perfect because that religion contains man who sadly has sin. Jesus died for our sins.They could walk on egg shells to prove to God that they don't like eggs...I think that this needs proving actually.
You need to get out of the United States for a little while... take a vacation and go see what your Church is doing in other parts of the world... Because as soon as you get out of your little local area where they try to look like and act like and talk like Protestants... you will quickly discover that they DO WORSHIP MARY and they DO Flagellum themselves and DO mix in with other beliefs etc...
I think you need a Vacation... :-) Good as Excuse as any... Go take one!!! :-)Perhaps you need to understand that the teachings of the 'catholic' church are universal.
And, you might want to trust that a former nun (who has belonged to a community which has international branches - including in Africa) might perhaps know more about Catholicism than either you or the OP.
Just a thought.
Now, as to the vacation, that's a damn good suggestion.
Im not confused a bit... You do need a vacation... To Olinda PE Brazil during Carnival... and take a good Look around at all your fellow Catholics... Go to the art exhibits and look at all the "Nice Images on sale everywhere" and whatever you do... do not Read your Bible where it says in Exodus 20: And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
And you probably should not read verse 14 either where it says: 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
It would really mess up your Catholic Vacation if you started to accept God's way of looking at all of that Junk.By the way... you said you were a nun... that tells me that at one point in your life you wanted to serve the Lord... and you tried to do so... Great. My hat comes off to you... But if there was ever any sincerity in that, you should truly read HIS WORD and seek HIS WAY. You might just discover that some of us have allot more of a relationship with Jesus than you think we do.
No need to be defensive. I never implied that you did or did not have any sort of relationship with Christ. I'm sure you do. No, I did not once wish to serve Him. I still do, just not as a nun.
Are you trying to say that in many places around the world, the Church has perverted herself to follow local customs in ways that are antithetical to Christ? Sorry, friend, that is both true - and not news to me or anyone else.
I simply directed you to the ACTUAL teachings of the Church, which are born straight from the Word.
And, I find it interesting to assume that you think I've never been through the Word and know its teachings.
Keep preaching what you know, not what you don't. And try to stay away from speaking so condescendingly. You make a great number of assumptions about people and steer your conversation from them. That may not always be wise.
Hello all, Claire is temporarily banned from the forums, and she asked me to let you all know.
Something she might have been construed as a personal attack on someone else, which resulted in her ban.
I did try to warn her a while back. Hate speech is hate speech.
Hate speech is different than a personal attack(insult).
How am I supposed to know that?
I didn't report that I can remember. Either way, Claire has a break, and that's fine, when I get banned it's normally a good thing, stops me getting too involved.
Deleted
I've seen people get banned for things they should get banned for, but I didn't see anything out of Claire's ordinary. She does admit to using hate speech, but I've never seen her directly insulting or threading someone, besides the "if you don't do as I do you'll burn in hell stuff".
A christian attacking a christian, that,s normal every day thing, is it not?
That depends on your definition of Christ-ian... Not every bird that has feathers is a duck... some are Buzzards.
It is easier to attack Clair than to take what she is saying seriously... There is a huge problem in that Denomination and since it is so old... and so world wide.... that problem is inter twined with politics world wide... conspiracy theories are only because Espionage is done is secret not out in the open.. regardless of whether its the Vatican, NWO, Illuminati, or the KGB or CIA.. or whoever... the only reason the Conspiracy is called a theory is because you cant prove it... and the exact details may be a bit fuzzy on who exactly is involved. Espionage is a key topic for allot of this stuff... and it dates back centuries... millenias even.
All I see, is many of then unnecessary fighting, and when I offer solution, they still would rather fight than switch , no wonder their angel and demons fight too, to the end of time.
Aquasilver: If the RC CHurch "Through out" as you put it... the ones who have tried to reform it back to what was originally taught.. and that they have done... Not just in the last 400 years, but for the last 1700 years because of Power plays and control of masses and governments etc.
History bares this out... If that is the case.. .and it is... Then since they have always thrown out whatever was done to reform them to the ways of God.. .how can we then percieve that institution as being *98% correct as you put it? Or for that matter.. how can we even continue to view it as a Christian Church?
If we do consider them "Christian" then at best we could look to that mess as being a "Backslid Mess" and as far as the "Body" is concerned.. .While they think of themself as the most beautiful part... the Nose even on the face... they would be better likened unto a festering sore on the backside... where it is hard to reach and difficult to cleanse... every festering... and never able to accept that the smell of its wound is not really "An exotic Perfume" its wearing.
98% Correct??? Good grief man.. take your bible down off the shelf and read it.I am referring to what their scriptures contain, as compared to ours, I seldom use a Roman bible, but when I have compared parallel verse, I have not seen substantial differences from my KJV, and they rate better than some of the modern bibles out there.
The organisation I have no time for, but there are good believers in that body, so to castigate someone for being a Roman Catholic is unwarranted unless you can sit with them and ascertain that they are in error, aware of it, and wish to stay that way.
I know some Romans who have seen through the crap and accepted where the error is, they stay Romans because God has not told them to move, and they correct where they can.Yes I know that there are a great many saved Believers inside the RC yet... But as for Doctrines... Here is a Book recommendation:
Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones He takes a good look at 37 of the primary Doctrines... If you want to know the truth.. get a copy and read it... If not.....If it's available on-line, sure, I will read it, getting a hard copy, more difficult, as I live in a Muslim country so bible bookshops are not that well stocked.
hmmm Here is a link.. (hope it gets through) where you can read it chapter by chapter online.. if the link does not make it through, then go to chick dot com and then click the link in left column marked Books and then the one for Understand RC... Then down at the bottom you will see another link to "Read this book online" and when you click that, it will list the book by chapter links.
Well thats cool.. last time I tried to give someone a link on here it would not go through... this time it did..
Anyway.. its allot of info... I would just print it out a chapter at a time and go through it with a fine tooth comb... Pray about it too.I will, but do you know that Chick has a bad reputation for it's tracts?
So did Paul the apostle... and most every other Christian of any substance...
Eat the meat and spit out the bones...
Maybe everyone is just tired of hearing others complain or even bring up the Catholic Church? I get that way a lot of the time and I'm not even a practicing Catholic!
I think it goes with every religion. Make a negative comment about them and you could get negative feedback. It is even taboo and against social norm to talk about religion nowadays.
webclinician
It is even taboo and against social norm to talk about religion nowadays.
It dose seem that way, when you don't agree will some other persons mystic core beliefs systemIt does but I find it especially the case among Catholics and fundamentalists. Sometimes Muslims will be on the defensive which is hardly surprising. They are depicted by the media and world leaders as being the "axis of evil".
The Axis of evil is a religions tool label by the greedy to use to fight for oil and power. It's works on predominated Religious countries where they over obedience and easily brainwashed again and again.
Unfortunately, moderate Muslims are treated with disdain because of the jihadists. However, if you read the Koran you wonder why good Muslims want to be Muslims as the Koran encourages violence to non-believers.
One might say the same for christians if they read certain parts of the bible.
In the Old Testament, right, which Jesus came to set right?
And where the the prophets predicted the Messiah would be a great military leader too! This is why the Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, because he did not fit the prophecies. There have been many false Messiahs over the centuries, with Jesus just being one of them.
This was "Their" interpretation that the Messiah would be so.
A great military leader? Can you point to that verse? Not all the prophecies did not apply to Jesus. He was pierced for our iniquities and born of a virgin.
Interestingly enough, the Muslims believe that a prophet will be a great military leader to promote Islam around the world. Jihadists like to behead people and that is the fate of those who don't worship the Anti-Christ.
Castlepaloma wrote:
The Axis of evil is a religions tool label by the greedy to use to fight for oil and power. It's works on predominated Religious countries where they over obedience and easily brainwashed again and again.
Claire Evans wrote
Unfortunately, moderate Muslims are treated with disdain because of the jihadists. However, if you read the Koran you wonder why good Muslims want to be Muslims as the Koran encourages violence to non-believers.
Randy Godwin wrote
One might say the same for christians if they read certain parts of the bible.
=====================================
ME
I think all three of you may be correct?
- -
Claire Evans wrote
In the Old Testament, right, which Jesus came to set right?
- = - =
me
I think he did make it right up to that point in time ... AND THEN ???I do not know if this forum is still live. Still I would like make this post to appreciate Claire. There were so many people against you but you stood for the truth. I pledge my support if this forum continues.
I'll point out one thing, the Catholic Church had the gumption to change God's 7th day sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (the 1st-day of the week). Read Revelation 22: 19.
The Catholic Church doesn't keep the sabbath. That is a Jewish directive and tradition. We commemorate the Lord's Day-on the first day of the week, as commemorated by the first Christians. See Acts and the many New Testament epistles.
That's kind of weird. Doesn't that break the 4th commandment?
The 4th commandment to set aside a day of rest devoted to The Lord? I don't think it does, but I guess that would be a question you'd want to ask the earliest Christians since the change was made then, and not by any current church in modern times.
I'd say it's far more of a concern for his followers when we do it and what we call it than it is for him. He wants a day of rest and a day devoted to him.
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