Can science prove...?

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   ...  that bones, meat, and blood ...randomly... by accident; ...       evolved into something that created "My" conciousness (Created???)
   
      Even scientists believe in a creator of conciousness?   
   
      Everybody just describes it differently!
   
      Nope ...  that isn't a question 
   
      
      just wondering if My statement  (stated as fact(?))    brings up any questions in any body's minds?
   
        Thats about all that I know about it; just wondering what You thought?   wasn't wanting to debate ....  I'm out of amo.

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      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well;  Are you  (ME)  saying that these little bodily parts, all on their own? decided to create a conciousness that would have controll over their every bodily action?
      
         Where have I heard that story before?.

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         Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Metaphysical reasoning and logic concludes that there was a "sudden" and "Special Event" that caused this so to be.

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            Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            @ Jerami,
            I know you can add a few interesting and compelling viewpoints on this Forum you started, and I shall be back tomorrow to check this thread out again.
            Signing off ...

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Have you taken the time to read about evolution? You'll get all the amo you need.

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   Proof?  As in no deductive reasoning?  With no extrapolation? 
   
   Of course not.  We weren't there to see it happen.
   
   On the other hand, all the evidence gathered points to just that.  There is no evidence that indicates anything else.  Even though you word it poorly (small bits without consciousness "decide" to create a consciousness) it the only conclusion that be drawn with the information we have.

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3. 72

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Consciousness is just a natural part of the process of evolution.
   
   It happens all on it's own, nothing has to create it.

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4. 61

   Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years ago

   Human consciousness has many different components, some of which are not shared with animal (non-human) life. For example, abstract thought; the smartest of animals cannot come close to matching that quality bestowed upon the Human being. This is one reason how and why some of us believe in an afterlife, and “consciously” strive to develop our characters so that we may have a real effect on our own destiny, according to our own faith.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Don't you mean is no longer shared with animals?
      Bestowed? Says who exactly? Human consciousness came from the development of the mind space to think.
      Real destiny? Destiny implies divinity at work. Bad assumption.
      
      You should consciously strive to develop your character, regardless of whether or not, there would be an afterlife. The fact that many fail in this regard, is based solely on their individual perception that that's all they have to do is be repentant for their previous actions and that will put them in the good graces of whatever god they worship. Therefore, most religious don't even value this particular life that they are living, because it doesn't really matter to them. Good show on the religious folk for completely dismissing the value of human life.

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         Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         As you wish, Cagsil. People will make their own determination.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Mocking? Good show of character?
            Yeah, they will and most of them do so uninformed.

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               Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Lol!. Hey, well I guess it's just a resignation to not carry it further with you, probably due to dread.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yet another response that speaks volumes about you. Again, good show.

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Abstract though - thought not necessarily strongly connected with reality - may indeed be why we can imagine an afterlife, but how can you be sure the some animals (notably marine mammals) do not share that trait? 
      
      Do you assume that they would come to the same conclusions we do?  Do you assume they would tell us if they possess that trait when we cannot speak their language?  How would we know if they can or can't?

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         Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Interesting thought, wilderness. We know from observation that wildlife will plan for their brood by building nests, for example.
         To imagine what they cognisantly "believe" is moot. I would suspect, however that they do the "best" that they can do, given their blessed wherewithals.
         I do not suppose that they themselves have chosen to not "evolve" like we have, and if they do choose this, what's up with that?

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            wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            They have chosen to not evolve just as much as you have.  Meaning that neither of us have any choice at all in the matter - your evolution was accomplished before you grew the second cell of your body.

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               Timothy Donnellyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Would not the plasticity of the brain have anything to do with it? If so, then "evolution" would be a live, current event. If not, then it must have been a "sudden" and "special" instant event. In relation to a person's conscience, it may be something that is not constantly the immediate objective, because most "creatures" just try to survive. Man is the only creature that has the capacity, and there is obvious evidence to support that, to think in an abstract way, and to "imagine" solutions to satisfy just about any need or desire. The helicopter, for instance was not "needed", even though it was and is put to good work, it was created out of an abstract notion that Igor Sikorsky worked on for years. BTW, what is the etymology of "creature"?

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                  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No "plasticity" of the brain can change the DNA inherent in it or the body it occupies.  Evolution is indeed a live, current event; new animals are subject to changes and older animals are subject to the "forces" of evolution that affect their reproduction rate.  Survival and reproduction is what drives evolution of upcoming generations and is live and current.
                  
                  Have you then read a dolphins mind to discover it cannot think abstractly?  Do you understand what it is thinking about?  Does it wonder about the stars above it and how they got there? 
                  
                  We are using abstract slightly differently; it is one thing to think about something that doesn't exist yet (helicopter) it is quite another to think about something that can exist only in our mind (God) and declare it does exist in our world.  One can become a physical reality, the other is stuck in the imagination with no connection to reality.

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5. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   6:57 AM  coffee is perking.
   
     Good points every one of Yawl..
   
     ...   
     Just seems strange how evolution works!  There always seems to be some kind of magical event that takes place in the "Natural?"  evolutionary process.
   
      To believe in miracles, whether we call this a natural evolutionary process  or ??   Godduneit,  seem to have much in common.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nothing magical ever happens. Everything happens for a reason, even if that reason remains unknown.
      Believing in miracles is foolish and implies divinity without looking for an actual reason.

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6. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   How free is free will.  And does everything possess this free will to evolve.
   
     Some of these posts suggest that we have free will to evolve into anything that we choose? 
     That would be a mind blower if this is true.
   
     Slime in a pond chose to evolve into flesh and blood?
   Then it chooses to self create its own consciousness? Then that consciousness (and sub consciousness) gains control of our  fate?  Really?
   
   Wouldn't consciousness have to have been present with that first decision for
   slime to create flesh and bone when it was still slime.
    
     Is consciousness and intelligence the same thing?
   
     The act of Creation is a miracle regardless of how we explain it, scientifically or by faith.??
   
       I gotta run off for a while ... Be back later.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Your will is free. It didn't cost you anything.
      No, not everything has a will of it's own.
      You have a will which grants you the ability to make all choices in your own life, just like everyone else.
      Something are beyond choice and simply happen.
      Consciousness isn't something that was chosen nor was it created by self.
      Fate implies divinity. No divinity required for control over path one lives life.
      Consciousness is just part of the process.
      No.
      Not really. It's just part of the process.

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Your statements above seem to be supporting both arguments.
         
            When something happens that is impossible to rationally explain a religious person may call it a miracle.
            When something happens that is impossible to explain rationally, a scientific minder person; that person may simply call it mysterious (unknown) element of evolution   SOooo  it seems that a mysterious (unknown) element of evolution  and what some call a miracle are the same thing.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Seems, but isn't.
            Of course they may, but they attribute it to something so they can feel comfortable, because the unknown can be scary, if left unknown.
            Not everything is attributed to evolution. But, everything does happen for a reason. Just like all questions have answers. It's the wise individual who understand that when answering questions, sometimes there's no actual need to know. Thus, making some questions answered with "no need to be answered" for an answer.
            Not true. As I explained above.

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               OOkkkk   That is one side of the coin.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  And what coin(topic/subject) would you be referring to? Just curious. The world we know is a duality reality, everything has two parts to it, which is why I asked what coin(topic/subject) you were referring to. To understand reality is to be objective(seeing things from multiple view points), which requires more than just one's perception, which is subjective.

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                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I agree with you  and we all do it.

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Okay, two things- what part are you agreeing with? And secondly, you didn't answer my question?

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                           Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I was reffering to your comment asfollows
                           ==  - = -- == -=
                             Cagsil wrote:
                           Seems, but isn't.  Of course they may, but they attribute it to something so they can feel comfortable, because the unknown can be scary, if left unknown.
                           Not everything is attributed to evolution. But, everything does happen for a reason. Just like all questions have answers. It's the wise individual who understand that when answering questions, sometimes there's no actual need to know. Thus, making some questions answered with "no need to be answered" for an answer.
                           Not true. As I explained above.
                           
                           == - = -- == -=
                           
                              I agree with this comment.    And we all do it.  This is a two sided coin in which I speak.

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