Black Holes and the Realm of God

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   emrldphxposted 13 years ago

   First, I beg forgiveness for any facts about black holes that I miss or state incorrectly. It has been some time since I looked at papers, studies, experiments, or theories specific to black holes, so some things may be different than I used to know.
   
   Anyway, the interesting thing about black holes is that they are singularities. Basically, they are this thing that our current models of math and science can't really explain, so we say they are singular. The laws that govern matter generally don't work in black holes.
   
   It's the same as saying 'we don't really know what they are or how they work'. We do know that they can be created by a dying star, and they have tremendous gravitational pull. We know that no light escapes from a black hole.
   
   At the center of the Milky Way is a gigantic black hole. Could this be the home, or one of the homes, of God? A place central to this galaxy from which to watch over us?

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The Creator God is not a physical body or a spirit; all physical bodies and spirits are His creation; He manifests with His attributes everywhere; likewise He creates the black holes; but to say that He only dwells there won't be correct, in my opinion.

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         emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I was just thinking out loud in my OP, and I failed to explain that I believe the creator God to have an actual 'physical' body. I put physical in '' because it's not like our body, with flesh and blood, but more perfected. I would say the closest I can come to describing it is a body with energy instead of blood.
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         There are a lot more scriptures I could use, but the point is that is my belief. I'm not trying to prove it to anyone else.

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      A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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         emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ah yes, a very rational argument for your obvious point about unambiguous truth.

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            A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            And, what you said was rational?

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               emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Oh troubled, you missed the point again. I'm sorry for not being more clear for you.
               
               The point is, this is a forum to discuss ideas. I put out an idea for discussion. I think it's safe to say most people here are looking for discussion.
               
               Bouncing in and out of threads with ''s' doesn't really contribute to the discussion.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It was perfectly clear, you wanted to inject magic into the discussion and call it rational.

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                     emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     What magic? If you call it magic you have to say why.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        The silly claims of magic you professed and I wholeheartedly laughed, just a few posts back.

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                           emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           You miss the point. What magic? What makes it magic? If you claim it is magic, the burden of proof lies upon you to show why it is magic.

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                              A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              Let me get this straight, you want me to prove that your claims of your God living in a black hole at the center of our galaxy is magic?
                              
                              Well then, it certainly looks like you've caught me red-handed with my pants round my ankles.
                              
                              I will have to take the high road on this one and admit that your claim is indeed rational.

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                                 emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Still you don't understand. I never presented this as a proof or as a logical argument. I posited an idea, a question. Because this isn't a proof, it isn't subject to the rules of logical debate. It is an invitation for thinking and discussion rather than a debate over reality. But yes, if you insist on claiming things are fallacies, you need to back up your words.
                                 
                                 ... either you are being serious, in which case I thank you for being mature, or you are being sarcastic, in which case you still haven't even attempted to back up your claim of the idea being magic.

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                                    A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Is that what you call it?
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    Obviously, no need to convince me of that.
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    Oh, I see, we are to entertain your fantasies with thought and discussion? How does that work?
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    Oh no, I was dead serious. See how serious I was --->

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                                       emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes, I call that a question. What do you call it?
                                       
                                       Yet you point out fallacies in my personal idea, which is presented as a personal idea? Why would you do that if logical debate only applies to things presented as arguments?
                                       
                                       I never even said if I believe this about black holes and God. I just asked a question.
                                       
                                       Ok, then back up your claim of it being magic. It's really actually quite simple. Oh, and you still haven't answered my point in 'subjective truth vs objective truth'.
                                       
                                       It's nice that you just ignore your contradictions when they are pointed out.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ________________
      
      Black holes are a result of stars having such intensive gravity that it collapses in on itself and not even light can escape it.
      
      Simple gravity

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   Emile Rposted 13 years ago

   I don't know. Anything is possible. I like to begin with the premise that the things we don't understand are somehow naturally occurring and we simply need more information. The spiritual realm, if it exists, is obviously outside of our present pocket of knowledge. Any contact, if it has ever happened, would have also been by its choice. No one can recreate events they claim to have been privy to. So, if the spiritual realm exists, that separation is by its choice, not ours. I've always assumed that, if there is a God, he'll make his presence known in his own good time. In the interim, the secrets of the universe are our oyster to pry open.
   
   I guess what I'm saying is; we know so little about black holes that even the strangest things could turn out to be possible, so it is too early to rule anything out. But, I wouldn't proceed with any research under the assumption that God put a big black hole in the middle of the galaxy just for him to live in.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you; black hole is just a creation of the Creator God as He has created many things; it is not His abode.

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         Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hey paar. Do you actually read my comments? Or do you use them to springboard into a comment about Creator God? I didn't actually say anything that could be seen as an agreement with your statement.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As in the physical realm we know the truth in it by our tool of knowledge called science.
      
      We know about the moral and spiritual realm from the Word of the Creator God; so He has made the necessary contact you have mentioned.
      
      In our time He has conversed with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah who is witness to the truth revealed on Muhammad, Jesus,Moses,Zoroaster,Krishna, Buddha.
      
      The Word revealed harms nobody; it supports peace and opens new vistas of knowledge.

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, I definitely wouldn't base any research off of assumptions.
      
      The thing that is most exciting to me is that our laws don't work with black holes. If they are real, what laws do they operate off of? Perhaps the are the laws our laws are based off of... who knows.
      
      I look for God in all things, and owing to many different scriptures from different religious texts, I believe whenever God creates a planet with His children on it, He also creates a more heavenly type of planet nearby.

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         Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think the most important point to remember is; about all we know for sure about black holes is that they exist. Everything else is speculation and theory.
         
         But, the comment you made I believe whenever God creates a planet with His children on it, He also creates a more heavenly type of planet nearby. ; is interesting.
         
         I read about a psychic once. A violin teacher in Germany, I think, with no other education. His predictions about the world wars came true and he talked about a race of beings once on earth who looked like men, but weren't. He described the neanderthals to a tee, before evidence of them had been discovered. He also claimed that there was a moon on the far side of Saturn inhabited by superior beings. Angels, he called them. I've tried to find his predictions recently, but I can't seem to.
         
         The whole story might have been an internet hoax, but it was an interesting read.

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            emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think it really matters which way the truth lies. The point is that we think about possibilities. The point is we explore the universe and ourselves.

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               paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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   kessposted 13 years ago

   The way and effect of what is called black hole is all around and within us.....
   
   The knowledge of it is the key to understanding our beginnings and our destiny and every other thing.
   
   the blackhole is death in all its glory....

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   kirstenblogposted 13 years ago

   Wasn't this the premise of a Star Trek episode?
   
   I coulda swore it was......

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know, I'm not a trekkie
      
      Black holes are thought of as galaxy-creators. Basically they form in a huge cloud of gas, and suck things in until the matter nearest the black hole gets too hot, and when it all gets sucked in together much of the black hole explodes. It blows away the rest of the gas and leaves a galaxy, usually with a black hole at the center.
      
      I could imagine it as a tool of creation that God uses.

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         A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sure it is a tool of the Creator God as is evolution .

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry it took me so long to read this, spent the last 4 days with a chest infection. I have had an interest in black holes since I was a kid living with my dad. He used to have all these book on them and when he would tuck me into bed at night I would ask him about them (one of the few bonding memories I have before I was removed from that home to my adopted home). Long tangent short, I have wondered about this suspected property of black holes, being galaxy creators. This big bang theory, it sorta ties in with this idea I have. The premise being a question, what happens when black holes collide? The answer I have found is that they make bigger black holes, and with the theory of entropy (that eventually all matter in the universe will cool down leaving nothing but black holes and dust) I imagine those black holes will get so darned big, like nothing that could exist in the universe now. Now what happens when two of those collide? Big bang maybe???
         Maybe even there are other big bang events that happen so far away from us that the light will never reach us before being pulled in by its own black holes, maybe even an infinite number of 'em?
         I like to think the universe is infinite. In an infinite universe there can be infinite possibilities playing out somewhere/time. Somewhere my unicorns and fairies and other fantasy creatures might just be what they would call real. Infinite possibilities, God could exist, might not, both are possibilities and according to my theory both will be right somewhere, kinda a paradox eh?
         Hence my agnosticism, might be a God (and in an infinite universe there are probably loads of 'em, buy the truck load!) and probably isn't, does it really matter???????
         Why should a good and charitable person who lives their life to the best of their abilities but don't accept Jesus, or Allah/Mahmud need worry more then the fundamental believer who happens to drown kittens in his bathtub cause it don't say he can't in the book?
         
         In such vast vastness (I think I could write for Monty Python with a start like that!) that is existence, why should my beliefs play any important role in anything? The only chance I have at making this life a worth while one is through the impact I make on the other wonderful individuals in this crazy ol world of ours. If I go round hurting people the legacy I leave is one no one would thank me for! However if it's a good one, the ripples outward could play part in the survival of our species longer and hopefully be helpful toward our species finding the outer limits of its potential.

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            In relation to the human beings the universe might be infinite but not in absolute terms; only the Creator God who created the universe in Absolute, Eternal and Infinite.

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   Moon Lightenedposted 13 years ago

   I agree a "creator god" would also be the creator of phenomenon like black holes, and as this god is associated with omnipresence I doubt it has one home other than existence itself.  I like to play with the idea that black holes feed and are portals to parallel dimensions.  This is what's so cool about not having absolutely answers.  It allows the mind to walk around a bit and explore.

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   mikelongposted 13 years ago

   People use these terms "spirits", "god/s", but I just look to the vast spectrum of sensation and ponder on the beyond electron microscopic perceived width of human ability to observe...
   
   Light, sound, touch....the overwhelming majority of everything that exists is set beyond our physical scope....
   
   None of this compels or justifies systems of subjugation or "spiritual" imperialism, taxation (tithing, etc.), or the setting aside of special privileges for clergy or religious corporations....

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have never paid a cent of tithing that goes toward clergy or religious corporations... Did you know there are religions where the spiritual leaders don't accept any compensation for the work they do?

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         mikelongposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That may be.....but there are an overwhelming number who prey on parishoners through tithing and other money grabbing tactics...

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            emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Which means that you can't use it as an argument against my religion. Use it against those who do those things, I have no problem with that

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   Show me the galaxies black hole.

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Can't show you a black hole, by definition.
      
      I can show you images of silhouettes and pulsar jets though.

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   "Can't show you a black hole, by definition."
   Seems to me then by definition a black hole can't be proven. But that's just me. I don't believe in the Big Bang and its invisible supporting appendages.

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If we were having this discussion about atoms before we had the technology to detect them, you would say the same thing.
      
      Arguing that something doesn't exist because it can't be proven is a logical fallacy.
      
      I am interested though, what do you believe in as far as the universe goes?

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      kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You can easily (with our modern technology of course) see the effects of a black hole on the stars around it. At the center of our galaxy there is something sucking in the surrounding matters like stars. This something cannot be directly observed, we can however more clearly see other galaxies like our own that have a similar phenomenon happening at the center of their galaxies, and when they face us at different angels we can observe this 'sucking in of energy, matter and light'. On top of this, we have seen far distant galaxies go completely black then wink back into existance, something black got in the way. So these things you can't directly observe that seem to act like holes, sucking stuff in get called black holes. Funny thing about black holes, their black, funny thing about space, its black. Funny thing about looking at a black hole, all your gonna see is black. Would you prefer we call them God holes? God's vacuum cleaners perhaps? God keeps a tidy universe with a Hoover! Someone call the marketing boys over at Hoover!

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   logical unfallacy is proof. No proof no logical consistency, but speculation is fun. Eternal or at least infinite existence.

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      emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      unfallacy? What do you mean by that?
      
      Stating that A doesn't exist because A hasn't been proven is a logical fallacy.
      
      Think about it. To say something doesn't exist means you know better than any potential discoveries human-kind could ever have.

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    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    [               ] Nothing between the brackets means
    something could be between the brackets. I can say
    I know better than any potential discoveries human-kind could ever have - meaning there is nothing there. Prove that there is then I am wrong.

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       emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I looked in between the brackets and saw about 500 white pixels.
       
       The hex code for space, I believe, is 20... there are several of those in the coding that make those spaces appear.
       
       So... you're wrong. You can't say you know what isn't, unless you are also saying you know everything that is.

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    knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

    "I looked in between the brackets and saw about 500 white pixels." So you created something from nothing. Anybody can say anything. The proof is in the pudding. Proof is the difference between fantasy and agreement.

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       emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       examine your screen with a microscope, you will see them too.
       
       I didn't create the pixels. You said nothing was between the brackets, but there is. You're just not looking close enough.

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    mikelongposted 13 years ago

    Did you notice how I did not target your "religion"...
    
    I mentioned those who are imperialistic...I did not say they all were..

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    paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

    Hi Deborah Sexton! How are you?

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