Lately there have been many posts on if you do or do not believe in hell and alot of the posts were based on personal beliefs, which is fine. However I did want to bring it up in the context of what the bible says about hell and whether or not it is a place of everlasting punishment or not, using scripture. Of course I can't stop people from posting, nor whould I want to, however I would like to try and keep these posts in context and on point. Scripture supporting a hell or scripture not supporting hell.
I'll jump off the cliff with this verse. Luke 13:22-30
"22 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”
This suggests to me that not only will it be a place of existance but a place of eternity. Rev. 21:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
Well it does sound like the bible is speaking of some people being ignored by God when they try to enter his kingdom. Also that last one mentions liars so they will be ignored along with the murderers? That's what it sounds like to me but I'm sure that it is re interpreted to allow people to still lie and be ok.
How do you mean re interpreted to allow lying? I don't follow you.
Well the way the bible includes those who lie with dogs and murderers etc. it seems like they too will be ignored and not let into God's kingdom and/or will end up in hell. Does that mean any lie small or big? Is it only referring to hurtful lies? If I want to think that my lying is not enough to keep me from heaven then I can think it means big lies or lies that don't involve worshipping Jesus or something. I guess it's kind of moot though since apparantly even murderers can get to heaven if they repent and believe Jesus died for thier sins.
I think it is about honestly accepting God with Jesus as his representative. It's simply about acceptance...honestly.
@autumn, well thats the point isnt it? If you repent and follow Christ then yes, your sins are forgiven. But if you live and relish in decentfullness and a puffed up ego rejecting God and the one who sent him then your fate is your own. I mean, would a father be a father if he tolerated any and all behavor from his kids? Yet if you come to your father and tell him what you've done, and ask him for guidness away from the mess you've made, wouldn't he do that for you? In the same sense this is what God has said right? "I am your father, I only want what's best for you. Heed my advise and avoid folly." IDK anyway, Mr. Druiddude summed it up perfectly I think.
Yeah for a Christian I guess that is the point. If you believe your fate is where you end up in the afterlife and how you live your life determines that then the fact that you can be forgiven by a higher power would be comforting. I agree that a good father would help and guide a child that needed it. Just as a good mother would. I'm very thankful that I have a great mother and father like that. I know many don't.
Agreed, the father should torture and burn the children for an eternity for not obeying and worshiping him, just like your God would do.
Yeah, good advice.
A Christian friend and I have been debating this subject recently. I'm believing hell is for eternity.
Some indicative Scripture passages are:
Daniel 12: 2&3
Matthew 25: 41&46
But whether it is or not, I only know I wouldn't want to spend even one minute there.
you and me both!
I recently have come to light that there was even a subject! It had never crossed my mind before. I'll be reading up more on these verses to be sure! thanks
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
this is what i have been saying about what happens when we die, we sleep. We do not hover around conscious as independent spirits. We don't go zoom off to heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice.
Cain has everlasting contempt. The 10 virgins without oil in their lamps can be said to have everlasting contempt.
How do you equate contempt with hell?
That is revelation 22:15 you quoted from.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
This does not sound like eternal anything but obliteration.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whore mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
Same group of people
Without in this case means: not having, not possessing, being without.
It represents not obtaining the previous verse. It does not suggest, outside the city walls, a physical place.
Believing in scripture is also a personal belief isnt it?
To some I suppose. For others it's a "take it all or nothing" type belief. Scripture being the hottly debated topic that it is, is a dangerous thing though to pick a choose which you will follow and which you wont.
That's what got Christianity it's bad wrap in the first place, well that and all the ministers in the public eye that are found out with hookers and blow
But, that's exactly what Christians do and anyone who supposedly does not cherry pick the bible is labeled a fundamentalist. You believers are hilarious telling others not to do what you already do.
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