Truth is concept. What we hold as true, is only a conceptualization of what we believe is true. Enlightenment and all these things, do not exist. The now is what is important, for it is now that all of this is being created out of nothing. The words we use then, mean nothing and everything. They are born out the concept that we believe, that we are something of our actions and experience, but we are only half right. We are now, not yesterday and not tomorrow.
Then the big question will arise, which is - What should we do with this present?
It's a childish question. But maybe it's one of the biggest questions of life.
Be the experience of it. Do not try to grasp it, when we grasp it, we try to make it ours. It belongs to all. Cats, dogs, people and all others. It is now that we share and in trying to grasp it, the meaning slips ever away.
I am sure I will someday see you in your proper position.
If you see me in my proper position, you will be seeing yourself.
How is one supposed to recieve that statement?
I need no mirror, for I see myself in all things. Moon, tree and person.
How can you find relation with a lifeless object?
Are we all not star dust? Even the moon is of us, for we percieve it.
You are changing the eye. You made me see things in a new way!
"..for the eye, ever young and ardent, sees beauty in all things." You are beauty, mischeviousme. (I know, I know, beauty is just a concept).
Yet I deserve no lofty position, for I am with you always, as you are with me.
With all things, for they are the true mind.
Hey Robert! -I can't be serious for a long time. I was just joking. I understand you.
Hey! -You are looking like that troubled soul!
Ok, I am joking.
I didn't say lofty, just beauty. But all beauty is lofty, IMO. It's what elevates us to a higher plane.
In not searching for anything but inner quietude, we can awaken to the pure now of seeing with the mind, not the eyes.
Agreed. But didn't mean seeing (beauty) with the eyes. The eye (third eye) is the mind and sees all as beauty (in the context of what we're discussing).
Yes, we do our best with words on the forums. I agree that all life is beauty but disagree that "seeing" beauty is ego. The mind freed of all obscuration makes the universe of physical sensory perception small (unimportant). So the 'sense' of beauty known by the enlightened mind is not ego but the result of contented purity. You and I are actually saying the same thing.
Ego is in place as a means of discriminative observation but the term is often used to mean self importance. (Not saying that's how you're using it).
" in trying to grasp it, the meaning slips ever away."
I have one question- Can we express that meaning in words? Is it a conscious experience?
It is and it isn't. If one studies atomic structures, they see that it is only here in moments. The same can be said for us, if we try to rationalize it by the past, we gain nothing from it. We can only observe ourselve's now and we can only observe all other things now. Moment to moment, is a universe of it's own and contains many universes, as undiscovered.
I do agree that the Spirit has much undiscovered. I have found that luck or chance had opened them more, than my own conscious efforts. However, I also tried my luck with conscious efforts, but that was time-consuming. Life is a miracle.
GoldenBird - what you call luck or chance was you being in the right place at the right time prepared by your previous moments to receive that goodness. What you call your own conscious efforts was you trying to mold events so they become your experience instead of focusing on the deepest inclination of your heart.
The heart often sings songs. We do not listen.
Listen to the music of all things, for like the violin, music comes from nothing and goes into nothing.
GoldenBird - Although you may be still kidding, you might be wise to listen to that very statement. The song of your heart is your true calling.
Yes. I love you both! -If thou two open a school, take me in!
It's not about learning from me, it is about letting go.
If you really meet me, you will burst now and then with laughter!
misch - if not about learning (from you or anything), then why are you here posting? You want to share to help others, to edify their lives, to bring all energy to a higher plane. Yes, it's about letting go, but you are here to teach the same way you learned (from whatever source).
The source is now. Now is different from every moment before it, so then it doesn't matter, only in sharing the feeling.
Teaching is different from intriguing people to learn.
Well said, GB.
M - sharing the feeling can be the same as both teaching and learning which are not mutually exclusive.
If you choose to see it as a teaching, then by all means.
If it is learning, we are learning all of the time.
Sharing, feeling, observing, witnessing, sitting in quietude, being, thought streams, desirelessness, inspiring, mental equanimity, object contemplation, union - all teaching and learning.
But not to be confused with the wisdom obtained in the higher states of consciousness which is different from that obtained by habitual thought patterns that stand in the way of other impressions.
Let the impressions come as they will and they will still only be illusion.
Yes, you and I have already agreed to that but now let's talk to the new seekers who have yet to go through the concept of illusion. Mental impressions, as you've stated earlier, come through the ego. Whether they are good or bad impressions is irrelevant. They still come. People learn, grow, change by these impressions (of their own making).
What is said in the past does not apply to now, only that one grasps now and moves forward for now. The past is for learning to be now, but keeping tight the past, we never move forward in the now.
Here is a pupil. Enlighten the seeker. Let Plato and Russell intrigue Tennyson
If you wish to be a pupil, learn from now and you are learning from me. Learn from now and you are learning from everything.
Ok, here I go.. I am learning that God is calling to me through a human voice. I am listening to that voice. The world has been made simple. I will grow the learning.
Now meditate on that and the simplicity goes even deeper.
People who hear voices in their heads should probably seek professional help.
You are a rare talent Robert; if you don't mind being called a talent.
I don't know what to call myself and I'm happy that I don't, it would only confuse the issue.
Ok, GoldenBird. Here is your first lesson. I'll give you the objective (goal) first so you can see where you're going.
Goal: When the voice and the vision on the inside become more profound and clear and loud than the opinions on the outside, you've mastered your life.
Assignment: You are to sit in lotus position with eyes closed. Breath quietly. Go deep into your past where there is both pain and bliss. Allow these memories (mental impressions) to escape without interruption as you witness your experience of life unfold. This is known as mental vomiting and is not to be taken as something bad.
Don't analyze each event that comes up. Just witness it. You are no longer in that moment but witnessing it from a new moment that will give you a new perspective. Do this every day for 5 days.
During this exercise, you are to cultivate friendliness toward happiness and compassion toward misery, gladness toward virtue and indifference toward vice.
You'll discover that much of what passed is irrelevant. We can only receive what we can receive so you will see in stages
One does not need to sit to meditate, we meditate even when we don't know we are doing it. One should just be aware.
Yes, dear M, I know this and you know this, however, I am the sensei in this classroom. If you want to write your own lesson, do so but do not interfere with my instruction to my student.
For the beginner, this is a natual and comfortable way for them to focus on the lesson.
We are all students, rarely one ever becomes the teacher, for the path is solitary and learning is always now. What will one learn from when the teacher is gone? Now is the only true teacher and we are all the student.
Everyone is at once the student and the teacher.
If one seeks to be the teacher, the student will ever remain the student. If one accepts studenthood, the teacher is now.
Exactly. There is no need for seeking either. They both exist simultaneously in each of us whether recognized or not.
I appreciate both of you. When one finds God, he loves everyone. God made sunshine to give us light and warmth. He gave us flowers to find happiness.
He made the stars so we may never forget to dream. He made you so you may be my companion in this brief journey, so I am never alone, never in want of His love.
Seek it and you will find nothing, let it come to you and you have found everything. That is now.
That is so sweet. You asked as a pupil, I gave you something to chew on. You can float through life in the now, as mischeviousme suggests, finding awareness through your poetry, perhaps, which is another form of ridding the soul of mental images. Your poetry is a reflection of you.
You can also take steps to be intentional toward awareness through active meditation in much the same way you are intentional about going to work every day. Taking intentional steps is no less a part of the journey but may in fact open up channels which are currently blocked.
Both are valuable paths to awareness.
Let go of that thought and you will see that it is you, that is the Confucius.
Whatever mail you sent went to my girlfriend, for this is actually her profile. I am just using it for austerity.
How often or how many of us have that highest level of integrity and insight to never lie, embellish, or twist our words to benefit or protect ourselves? Most people lie even to the smallest degree. If you're asking about the truth of the universe, that's not debatable. If you ask me if I made my bed this morning, there is a simple yes or no answer. One of them is the truth.
Another answer might be 'it's all truth and it's all lies or illusion'. The only thing that matters is the past minute and what you do with it.
"The only thing that matters is the past minute and what you do with it."
-What can we 'really' do with this moment?
Golden - You can do anything you want to do with it. Just be aware that it will take part in defining the next minute and so on. "Being in the moment" is like saying "Who feels it knows it". Both are valid but unknowable until they're experienced.
As mischeviousme stated, rationalizing the past to define the future doesn't work. Understanding that the past actually defines the future is closer to most people's current reality.
You can't change what you've experienced but you can change your perspective of that experience. Once you begin to learn how to do that, you can change each moment to create better moments which then build into new experiences.
As humans, we can understand the concept of pure consciousness but not the experience. When the windows to insight begin to open, we go through a phase of seeking (what we term truth). Then we begin to just 'be'. Keep in mind that there will always be distractions or attempts at distraction.
Only if one chooses to see the distraction and be stopped by it.
That's what I believe as well. The seeker often doesn't recognize distractions for what they are. Distractions should be looked at and used if they suit. If not, we can simply send them away. But I believe non-recognition of distraction is tantamount to non-recognition of awareness itself.
Exactly! now were getting to the brass tacs of it. Then even still it is but a moment in nothingness and should be forgotten all together. One must let it be part of the moment and move on to the next.
It only matters if the mind get's hold of it and it's all down hill from there.
I guess we make our own reality is some ways. For good and bad.
Absolutely! That is just one step to awakening, accepting it as it is and moving forward moment by moment.
OutWest - we make our own reality in every way. Someone can look around and say 'I didn't ask for this' but the actions and steps they took in the past is what created their current circumstance.
And yet the future is as illusive as the snake and the mind as restless as the monkey.
(Did you mean elusive as a snake?) Odd statement coming from you since I know you believe everything is connected. Are snakes elusive and monkeys restless? Each of these lives their lives according to their needs. Monkeys are often active but restless? Snakes are often hidden in their habitats but elusive?
that is the nature of words, we use them to convey mind.
Actually I meant illusive, for we think we see it.
Ok, illusive. I get that by losing our illusions we lose everything and nothing.
It doesn't matter where we bigin, only that we are now. Nothingness is beautiful as well, it is peace of mind.
True, we do things that can lead us to our current situation. But as for what is absolutely true we may never know that in this life.
But if one chooses to see the moment for what it is, the decisions made are more clearly thought out. We only have the moment and even then, we really only own it in mind.
Truth belong only to the one who know it and they cant help but speak it...
I'm one of those 'bad boys'. Sometimes I will lie just for fun. So what?
Guys lie all the time trying to get layed.
Chicks lie all the time when they act their act to attract guys.
Doctors lie when the act like they know what they are doing.
Cops lie in court.
Parents lie to kids (tooth fairy, santa).
Kids lie to parents.
Anyone who thinks they speak the truth all the time is probably very lonely in their righteousness.
Deleted
There is the truth of Christianity,
There is the truth of Judaism.
There is the truth of Islam.
There is the truth of {insert any religion}.
Then, there is truth.
Which one do you refer?
Truth is only measured by how close it is to reality. If I do not know reality, I cannot measure fully what is truth. So the answer is unknown to me.
That is, what it is. Truth does not exist, but in the heart. Truth is a concept of the ego.
I would respectfully disagree. IMO, truth is not a concept of the ego but a reflection of the Highest State (for lack of a better discription) that dwells within each of us.
You mean Bertrand Russell is questioning Plato?
Oh, that is good. I bow to your sense of humor, girl. (It is girl?) Thanks for the nod to BR but I think that would be paradigmsearch. Logic as related to mathematics is not my thing. I fall more in line with Socratic thinking.
Here's something that struck me. You're GoldenBird and your avatar is a cat's eye. Explain?
Isn't everything connected? Cat, bird, moon, star all are one!
(Me is boy.)
GoldenBird explains me as a poet. The cat's eye explains me as a person.
I like the 'insert any religion' one. That sentence makes the other three (christianity islam and judaism) seem so much more valid than other religions, which are too trifling to even name.
It seems that the only time anyone actually tells the truth is when they say 'I don't know'.
Or, it's because there are so many religions to list, it would take all day to write them down here.
It is laughable to claim one is any more valid than any other.
That was my point, Troub, but I am laughing, because many religions still practice animal sacrifice and group trance states induced by drugs and/or chanting. Christians symbolically (for Catholics, literally) eat the flesh and drink the blood of their god.
Orthodox Jews still sacrifice goats as in the old testament, as do muslims.
Who knows WTF goes on in Borneo or other primitive places?
All of those things you have mentioned are what is tying you to the past. Let it go and be, it will not affect you so.
Lew - Respectfully, Catholics do not eat the flesh and drink the blood. They symbolically use the wafer and juice. (No longer wine). How can Catholics literally eat flesh and blood of a 2000 year old entity?
Its called transubstantiation. Look it up.
Yes, I know what it means. It's still not done in the literal sense.
It's a ritual that has become more important than the teaching itself, which is a shame, for there are many beautiful things to learn from it.
Did you bother to look it up, pop? Thats the only way to learn.
Mischieviousme, you are getting tedious.
I am not ashamed, I too was once part of the Catholic heard. I just chose to seek my own path and I walk it alone, no book, religion or way will help me find an end, for it could be in the next moment.
If I struck a nerve, it is because you cannot move past your self. You seem to think that because I am not part of the in crowd, that I am inhuman in some way. Which is the common sentiment of the religious code of ethics.
No, its just that I am twice your age and I have heard your transendental circular tripe a million times before from other ego tripping chumps, and I am tired of it. I will thank you to shut up around me.
Others would feel the same of bible thumpers. Is it not the way of things? Living in the ivory tower of what we believe is right?
You look like you're about 30.
BTW, I see you didn't fix the spelling that your 'old lady' screwed up on your little bio. Funny how you revert to regular language when talking about your 'old lady', but you spew philisophical dregs without using any contractions, trying to sound so wise.
Your ego must really need stroking the way you try to constantly prove that you have a handle on any and all subjects. I feel sorry for you.
I am like you. I have no handle on things and I admit to knowing nothing, which is a step we must all take toward adulthood. As for what is written in my bio, they are just words and it doesn't bother me in the least.
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