Does a person start dying at the moment of birth? Or, does a person start dying at the moment of...
conception? Or, do we start to die after we reach our physical peak, which is reached at about the age of 25? Some say that you can tell a lot about a person by the way they look at death...is that true? Sorry about the depressing questions, but I was reading a book that said a man starts to die at birth, and I wanted to find out other people's opinions are on the subject.
I believe that people start dying at the moment of birth. Just because someone is conceived, doesn't mean they'll last; take for example, spontaneous abortions. They happen more often than not, so much so, that many women don't even know they're pregnant. Then of course, there's the song, "What Sarah Said," and how, in the end, we're all just waiting around to die in the end.
My friend I am reminded of a saying by a Japanese writer" you only live twice, oonce when you are born and once when you face death". So death must follow birth that is what the Gita says. Both death and birth are but an event as the soul Atma is immortal.
Thus in way birth and death are part of a cosmic cycle.
I really like your point of view and the knowledge that you have shared.Thanks
I thank you for your answer and for the thought provoking quote.In closing, life does seem to be in cyclical in more ways than one.
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote … 76276.html
The quote was by a British fellow, not Japanese.
I don't think it's accurate that we reach a physical peak at 25. What we reach at 25, I think (and based on what I know about the growth process) is physical maturity (which includes the final touches on the brain's "growing up" stage). I think, right now, we're designed to live (ideally) for 100 years; but that lifestyle, stress, and any number of things continue to drastically affect people's health and longevity. (Think about how many extremely wealthy people, who don't have to deal with some of the stress that less wealthy people, do live past ninety.)
I think the second 50 years are intended to be years in which we live as mature adults, and in which we grow emotionally, "socially" (including having families of our own), and (of course) intellectually. It's said that after 30 is when the metabolism starts to slow down with each decade, so I suppose there's the chance we could "supposed to" life for 90 years right now, with the first 30 being a growth (high metabolism) stage, the 30 being the "adult living" stage, and anything after that being the aging stage.
Either way, the higher metabolism rates of childhood and youth are associated with a growth phase. We can, of course, exercise and eat in a way that increases our metabolism; and exercise helps keep people "young" for reasons other than just metabolism. That would seem, to me, to suggest that once we've hit our "complete maturity phase" we have SOME control over how long that "living as an adult and not yet in decline" phase will take to set in.
I can't help but think that, for the most part, between 60 and 75 are when aging-related decline tends to start setting in (with 60 being earlier than Nature may have intended). The first, and most noticeable (and unpreventable) "decline" seems to me to be related to "outside stuff" - facial skin and graying hair. A lot of people don't have much other "decline" (unless they're sick) until past at least the mid-seventies, sometimes mid- or late- eighties. Even then, some things are brought on by lack of exercise and improper eating, and minor "issues" that started when people were in their 50's really get bad after living with them for 20/30 years. Continued intellectual growth and stimulation have been shown to actually help keep the brain physically healthier (or at least freer of symptoms of even something like Alzheimer's).
I don't think "decline in growth" means "dying". I think it means more vulnerable and more at risk of it.
What a interesting question. If you go with Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and deductive reasoning it begins with birth. That is a paraphrased from Sherlock Holmes. The rest of the statement says it is a 'matter' of 'time.'
I'm speculating. Conception could be thought of as a starting point, yet metaphysics comes into play a bit too. From Christian thought things like dispensation and covenant theology may offer differing views. With the sciences the governing laws of energy, specifically the laws of the conservation of energy dances a jig on that thought.
Matter steps with that tune and how to measure it - density, surface area, potential energy and kinetic energy to name a few. When is matter gained or is it ever and when matter is lost would be considered. Remember that basic law says energy can neither be created or destroyed (particular to systems with the theory). If the womb is a system and conception is the beginning while remembering energy cannot be created or destroyed, then there has to be a definition for Life relative to energy, I suppose.
One can run for ever trying to decide the point of acceptance with Life. Some say a baby is a parasite, yet I just dun'no. If that is the case then are there two systems and not one? Does one system exists within the another? The interesting thought along this exercise is the introduction of person. With that we have three definitions to decide - energy, life, and person.
Well, I can wander awhile pondering, yet I have a destination awaiting me. Thank you pmorries for the interesting thought exercise prompted by your question.
I would have to say that the flesh starts dying at the moment of conception. It is just the cycle of life. All are born helpless and some (The elderly) pass helpless. Our main objective in life is getting back to where we came from, God. The only way to do this is Salvation through Jesus Christ who knew you even before you were born.
Dark, but interesting question, which of course can be viewed from different points of view. The comments are quite interesting and revealing as to how people perceive their existences.
Metaphorically speaking we are born to die so birth would be the correct answer.
Physiologically speaking we start to deteriorate after reaching our peak physical condition.
Theologically speaking there is no death, or deterioration, as the spirit does not die.
Physically speaking, we all reach our peak condition at different times, based on our genetics at birth, how we take care of our bodies, and other factors, so that answer will be different for everyone.
The "conception" idea is a bit of a stretch from reality, as there is not viable life at conception.
There are more considerations beyond these, but you get the picture - this question has no definitive answer, only speculative based on ones individual point of view.
Blasts! You said what was going to be my response on the physiological!
I think that your answer proves that the question does not have to be dark, and I appreciate how you tackle the question on multiple levels.
Not "viable" life at conception? I guess it depend upon your definition of "viable." In the protection of the womb, the baby is indeed viable for it continues to grow. A baby after birth is not viable in the wilderness
lone: Viable: capable of living as an independent unit. Religion does not trump scientific logic. Ego & humility R not related to religious judgmentalism or sarcasm
Your last paragraph is why i asked the question.
I absolutely love your question. Unfortunately, I have absolutely no answer. Every once in a while, someone asks a question that is brilliant in itself just by taking a question we hear everyday, ( When does life begin?) and asking it from a different point of view. Now I'm more confused than ever. That's a good thing That means I was ready to form a belief of some sort without having all the different points of view as a basis for that.
But it brings up another question. Does life begin at conception or does dying begin at conception? That brings up a whole new issue in the subject of abortion.
I'm not in the habit of answering a question with a question, but I couldn't help it this time. Thank You for letting me not answer. If I had one, it would be, " I gotta think about that awhile."
Each cell in a body only lasts a short while. The beginning of death doesn't happen right at conception, unless you count the sperm joining with the egg as the death of the sperm. As the new baby's cells divide, they grow older and eventually die. But the organism as a whole continues to grow and live.
But this is talking only about the organism and not the true self (child of God, soul or Holy Ghost), within.
When we loosen our ties to this physical realm -- especially those tying us to ego -- the true self begins to awaken (begins to be reborn). This is the "everlasting life" of which Christ spoke. With the return of consciousness to the spirit -- no longer dependent upon the physical -- consciousness can continue past physical death.
The antidote to ego is humility.
The path of learning includes humility, for no one can learn anything if their cup is already full. And so many people have full cups.
I like this one....hmm...what if I said I believe that life and death are happening simultaneously as we travel down our roads? Physically we begin to live immediately by developing from a speck into a full grown person yet it would be impossible to say we're not dying too since we are surely closer to the finish line every second of our being. This of course means that developing physically is a part of dying or the life cycle. It's a "glass half full half empty" scenario don't ya think? To each their own. This is where emotional living and dying begin....I do believe the 2 are quite separate.
However, if you take the amount of living cells and subtract the amount of cells that have died over that same time frame then forecast that over the average life span of a human being and divide it by pi....you could mathematically determine if we are living or dying. ALGEBRAENS FOR LIFE!!!!
I think that the mere mention of algebra brings us all a little closer to death.
I think Pi is mostly used in geometry isn't it? GEOMETRIANS FOR LIFE!!!
What did I teach you?
When it comes to getting old and dying I disregard what science tells me. I always hear my peers commenting how they feel old and are not as young as they once were. To me it's all a state of mind. I am alive and physically my body ages with each passing second; however, I keep my mind young and I will never grow old.
Regarding your question as to when we start to die; I beleve that you start to die when you convince yourself that yuo are dying. Confused? I have known young adults that have let their lives beat them down to the point were they might as well be dead. I have also known very aged people that are far from death. Life may beat them down, but the way at which they respond to their life beatings is compleatly different. They stay vigerous, positive, full of life until their bodies die. Whic could be 100+ years old or 50.
Look at some people who have lived to be 100 and you will see that they lived lives that should have killed them early on, but they didn't. They lived to 100. It's all a state of mind.
I think that you can be dead before you are buried.
We have plenty of people walking about with dead souls and consciences who cannot for one reason or another, enjoy life.
I guess, death and its definition will be determined by whether you believe in life after death or not.
Interesting question and I would have to say according to our handbook of instruction, the bible ,death entered as soon as Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
Ge 2:16, 17 Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
The first day of eating it they started to Die.
Gen 5:5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years,
So what happen as an example, A car has a battery and an alternator, which recycles the power of the battery, if the Alternator goes out, the car is totally depending on the battery to go.
But can the car keep running off the battery . No , not long , not enough power to operate the car , the battery drains rapidly. Until it is dead
Adam and Eve life was sustained by their Father and God who is eternal, they could also live with him forever , but when they cut off their support line by disobedience , they were on just living off of the battery of the human body, until it was drained ,
The point is we also inherit the same outcome.
But the Father supplied a cure for us. we now have a backup power source to continue us living ,Jesus paid the price. Jehovah the Father can keep us living.
Ps 37:29 The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.
This is because Jehovah gave us a lifeline of hope to keep living.
Man means "mind able to comprehend all things" so Adam & Eve's death was not of the body but the mind's inability to comprehend because of their believing things are good and evil (Mat. 8:22) as was the drowned during the Flood.
A person when reached at about the age 22 , reach the physical peak.after that the decline starts,one by one our cells begin to die.
Everything starts dying the moment of conception.
Hayflick Limit theory:
# Telomeres dictate # of cell divisions
Once a Zygote, every mitotic cell division afterwards counts.
One starts to die at birth in the sense that earthly life is ephemeral ..fleeting, and the grand entrance only signals a grand or dull ending sooner or later.
That said, the Soul is immortal and continuous. The Soul comes into life aware of its existence, and it leaves the body aware of its existence. You speak of dying as I understand it, in a physical sense, but the Soul is birthless and deathless. It is only passing.
There is another kind of painful death which happens while we are alive, as we are dead to the awareness of eternity; the infinitude of the Soul. Much Love.
Yes birth is the starting point towards death. And let me tell you there may be some one say xyz but it is utterly ridiculous to say that one can say a lot about a person by the way they look at death!!!
There is no death and there is no life. There is only transition from one world to the other. And there is a balance! If a soul lives - a body does not exist! If you are reading this - your soul dreams of freedom. Happiness is a freedom!!! Maybe you do not understand it but Jesus understood it! We can choose only two things - or freedom or slavery. The gods will do the rest!
Your death time is known to Allah and written in the Great Book in the sky before you born .
I have always believed from the moment we are born we start to die. I also feel we all die, but not every one lives. Some people don't get it that we have a short time here but what we do can last forever.
No we do not start dying the moment we are born. The decay starts when we stop growing in late teens and early twenties.
Well not everyone believes that the body is you. Socrates said that the most important thing is the immortal soul. Many Easterners believe that the body is like a pair of clothes that you change.
Life is a process culminating in death. I would say death start as life begins. We are alive even before we are born. On a more positive view is that We continue living until our life ceases (I am not really sure if that is a more positive view to this topic though).
Hmm, well if you want to be technical they do start dying at birth just very slowly. However I feel a person truly starts to die when they realize the world isn't full of rainbows and leprechauns like people tell them. Once they realize people will screw them over, beat on them just to get ahead, that the human race as a whole is something vile and twisted. That's when they start to die. They start to die once they realize there isn't much to live for in a world of hate, once they realize that the world is shite.
We live to die.
Every cell in our body has a time limit, but one dies, and another is born. We're never fully in a state of living or dying, because in our complex body, bot happen at the same time. In a sense, a part of us does die when we born. We take our first breath, we are no longer dependant on our mother's umbilical cord, and we sense the world for the first time. We lose the familiar womb, but we gain a lot more.
We are dying and living at the same time. The trick is to live more than we are dying ( though pain promotes growth}.
Each cell will be rejuvenated by eating unprocessed seed bearing plants which prohibits a dying body but our tradition of cooking most of our foods causes the replaced cells to not be rejuvenated so the body can't become eternal; good & evil caus
I always believed that when person dies, they are being reborn in another body. The soul remains but the life starts over.
It is a little like reencarnation. That is why some people sometimes think they were a certain person in another lifetime.
Other thing is, for example, when people die and see "the light". This could also refer to a birth that unfortunately led to premature death. Since there is no body to keep the soul, they must go back to their previous body until another birth that is meant for them comes along to reborn their soul.
That's such an interesting question - makes you think! But, I suppose, one that has no correct answer. So I'll just say that it reminds me of something interesting I read that equally messes up your mind a bit...
What if the thing that is slowly killing us, is actually the one thing that keeps us alive? Oxygen. Making us decay, our bones slowly weaker and weaker and our minds deteriorating... it just takes 70-100 years to kill us.
Once we understand the person(ality) does not die because it is the life-force we are able to give the answer to that question.
Every life-force incarnates by what is called conception with a predetermined lifespan and CAN NOT leave the incarnation before that predetermined time and what the life-force must endure is complete.
A life-force's leaving a body is not "death" but discarnating. Death is "the inability to comprehend all things" - as man is defined - and it began to encompass the life-force the day it incarnated as its first man's body and began to judge based on sense perceptions. It remain dead until after manifesting as every known and unknown personality of man which is determined by karma.
The Bible's "garden eastward in Eden" is a metaphor of that death with what Yoshua called Christ gave as the "new birth" (John 3:1-8) being death's overcoming metaphor.
Param Pujya Dadashri says, "The body is slowly dying every second, but do people realize this? It is not until a log completely falls apart in two pieces that people say the log has been cut. Nevertheless it was in the process of being cut from the moment the saw first touches it." https://goo.gl/dQxauW
We start dying when we stop living for ourselves. When we start contemplating about the future. When we start thinking about the death. In Bhagavad-Gita Krishna has beautifully said, karmanye vaadikarsatu maa phaleshu kadachana which means, Let not the fruits of action be your motive, nor let your attachment be to inaction. Our duty is to live in the present. We will ruin our beautiful present thinking about the future i.e death. So believe in yourself and do your karma. Death is just to body not to soul. Our souls are immortal. We just change bodies not souls. In other words, death is a completion of birth.
Sometimes it is hard to live in the present, but I have died a little in the present many times.
Since death is forced upon every life-force for it to experience every attribute known to every life-type on earth, I say death is "the inability to comprehend all things" since man means "mind able to comprehend all things".
Actually Birth & Death is 2 sides of coin. Birth is a start of our journey towards death. As we grow we come close to death.
You start to die the moment the amount of cells being made by your body is undermined by the amount of cells dying. I guess that'd be difficult to work out, so I'd just say we're all dying slowly
The very act of breathing oxygen causes free radicals to occur, so anything that breathes is dying from the day it first draws breath.
Wow, what a question. Definitely Hub-worthy.
Let's say life is a book. The moment of conception is the first page of the "preface" which ends at birth. Then the book starts and all the marvelous story of "you" unravels, until the last page of the book, which is death.
In this case the question becomes: is the preface part of the book? I'd say it is, and that is when the book starts ending.
It is true that you might start losing interest after the book climaxes (the physical peak in our example, age 25 or so) but I wouldn't say that's the moment when the book starts ending.
Now being a life sciences researcher I cannot avoid contradicting myself examining the biological side of the question:
-The person starts being a person at birth, before that it's a foetus, before that is an embryo and before that it's a zygote, so if the question is "when does a PERSON start dying", we have to exclude the pre-birth part
-Although there is no universal consensus on the matter, the aging of an individual is a reflection of cell aging, which happens every time our DNA loses a bit of telomeres, and with oxidative stress and other factors. That happens at every cell duplication, although stem cells can avoid loss of telomers to an extent (but they will eventually age too). Aging=progressing towards death so biologically a person starts dying at birth, because that's when a person starts losing telomeres
-Death itself is a biologically vague event: is it when brain activity stops?When blood circulation stops?When both stop for a sufficient amount of time?When each and every cell of the body is dead?
And despite these many answers to your question, the only generalisation we can do is a universal non-answer:
Death starts whenever you think it starts. We're all right, and we're all wrong.
Every human that come in this universe lives a life that leads him to death.so,the process of dieing starts right after the birth.we live to die afterall!
Surely this depends upon whether or not you think the ever-changing physical part of you is who you essentially are. Same with our sensory-conditioned minds; how our world is interpreted through that conditioning. My take is that we are neither. We are THE LIFE that engenders these two elements. The third and most vital part, the REAL us could be called Spirit - or awareness, or consciousness with a will.
If you regard a person only as a mind contained within a body and that there is nothing else, then you will probably surmise that we do come to a finish, a bit like a battery that's completely depleted itself, by our body being no longer able to contain the life within it. It's worn it out.
It appears that Life does that to all of its creations. Even mountains erode and slide away to nothing. But then again, all, no matter what shape, size, etc, are all wavelets, oscillating frequencies. It is because of our limited senses, encased in physicality which can perceive only infinitely narrow spectra of that energy, that the Intelligence that we are can ask such a question.
I would say that we start to die at birth, but could probably prolong aging if we could kept our telomeres healthy - at least that's what scientists think. I've read that a raw food diet is supposed to help keep telomeres healthy.
Birth...at birth the body enters a mortal world and a soul is transferred to the body. As long as the baby enters air, a soul is given. When the body is inside the mother, it is basically acting off natural instincts to feed. and Feed brings growth.
Wow, such a clever question!
We start to live from conception;
We start to die when a big percentage of our cells are starting to degenerate that can cause cessation of the state of being alive.
I think the author of that book that says we start to die at birth is a highly intelligent person with highly philosophical views and I really appreciate his/her view but I do not want to adapt it because it is so pessimistic.
I have a totally different take on life and death, because I don't believe in death. This is because it has been proven that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Thus, while the body may deteriorate and "die", what it becomes continues to live as does the life force that was within it. If bodies were permitted to simply lie in nature rather than be buried or cremated, every part would be used by nature to allow other life to continue, thus allowing the body to continue to live. Even the ashes or dust that eventually remains go back to being part of the earth. It's actually quite a beautiful thing. Of course, this does not ease the pain of loss the bereaved feel when someone they love "dies", but at the very least, it should give them hope that the deceased person actually does still live on...just in a different way.
I agree with most of what you said but don't see any reason to grieve the discarnating of a person or any other life. I will protect the life of another when possible, like mothers should their still nursing child but not grieve their discarnating.
Thank you for the well thought out response . this question really seems too resonate with some people.
pienso que empezamos a morir cuando nuestro animo y disfrute de la vida caigan.
Birth is the beginning of death. All the processes of the human body that begin at birth—the physical changes that we watch for as parents, celebrate as milestones, and write dates in baby books—are all simply indications of the movement toward death.
The infant is born and begins to grow hair, nails, teeth. Mama nurtures her baby, takes pictures and writes down the date that Baby rolled over the first time. She celebrates the day he walked the first time, and Daddy tapes the birthday parties each year.
Compare these events to Baby’s Grandparents. Their birthdays are celebrated, parties are celebrated for their 40th, 45th, 50th wedding Anniversaries. But instead of marking their height on the wall, doctors are watching the decline of their bone strength. Their height is actually shortening. Their teeth are weakening, memories are fading and energy wanes.
While Baby continues to grow, we still celebrate those milestones. He goes to Kindergarten, and we are taking pictures; when his teeth fall out Mama saves them. The Tooth Fairy leaves cash under his pillow.
We celebrate the first time Baby goes Trick or Treating.
The Grandparents think Baby is so wonderful, and they celebrate, too. When they go home, they sit on the couch, and marvel at the years that have flown by, and how it was not so long ago that they were dressing up their children for Halloween, and putting money under the pillow for lost teeth. Where have those years gone? Oh, my, it’s time for bed. We get tired so soon, those kids just wear us out these days!
When Baby gets to Middle School, Mama still celebrates those milestones, because that’s still her baby, and those physical changes are still happening. But what she cannot fathom is that those changes are happening so quickly, and they will soon take him away from her. Just as those same changes took her away from the Grandparents. The physical changes made Mama grow up into a woman, made her capable of carrying a child, being a mother, living away from her nurturing parents.
She gets horrible news. One of the Grandparents has become sick with heart disease. She may die. How has this happened? No one knows. It happened because she has gotten older. She took her vitamins and did everything she was supposed to do, and still she got sick because...
As we are born, all cellular actions are simply a process that leads us to inevitable death. It’s a natural occurrence that’s horrible to consider, but true, all the same.
Bearing in mind that every part of that ever-changing physical body is made up of countless trillions of particles which come into being and go out of being at something like 0.0000000000000000000 plus per second, in what particular is consciousness?
Scientifically the process of death is down to the limited amount of times a cell can reproduce (Google "Telomeres"). The amount of times a cell can reproduce gets less with each new cell created, eventually ceasing altogether, so in that sense, you pretty much start dying the instant your cells start reproducing.
Philosophically who knows? I'm sure there's a platitude for it like, "You start dying when you stop living", or something to that effect.
Or more psychologically, you start dying when you stop planning for the future. In that respect, a 24 year old trudging through life with no plans for the future is dying, while a seventy year old writing a novel and booking a cruise is still living.
According to science one start to die as soon as it take birth. But what is science ? According to someone science has a big questions for everything but no confirmed answer to anything.
But here I will give a philosophical answer. One start to die when they start to feel so, when they don't feel happiness at sunset or sunshine , they don't feel joyful. Otherwise a joyful person never die. They remain alive in sweet memories of others. So just be happy and make others happy.
It is gravity that makes us age and grow old and causes our bodies to wear out. So right at birth we start to die.
what is death...is it the end of the physical body?Science tells us that roughly every seven years all the cells in our bodies replace themselves...so do we die every seven years?...and if we do...who the hell replaces us?
For that matter...how do we know we exist at all?
Could it be that we're just the imaginary characters in someone Else's daydream...or nightmare...and if so...how can we be in two places at once when we're really nowhere at all...Before we consider death...we must prove that we live...
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