is lilith the true symbol of freedom?

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   Lilith is said to be first woman created by god who demanded equality status...she is said to have disobeyed god and adam ...though she is projected in negatively, do u think she is first soul who demanded no slavery and is symbol of freedom...

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      She is the first feminist! 
      
      I have a hub on Lilith, if anyone is interested.  She is a symbol for women to not submit, when told to submit.  But she is also a dangerous icon, and strikes fear in the hearts of men, women, and children still today.  In the Middle East, in some remote regions; Lilith is blamed for all crib deaths and stillborn babies.  So becareful of who you chose as an icon for the women's movement, Lilith doesn't represent my ideology one bit.
      
      I am for free will on both sides of the table.  Lilith raped men.  Sought revenge on children because she was childless...
      
      She is no woman I want associated with my sex.

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      msorenssonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      One of my friends kept posting a lilith on my wall..different pictures but with Lilith as caption.  Forgive my ignorace but the only Lilith I know of is Lilith, Frazier's wife..I am glad I stumbled upon this hub...
      I am not a feminist..somehow the distinction was blurred when I was little having spent most of my time with my father who treated me like he would have treated a son...a buddy..I was his buddy..

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   For sure. Lilith is my hero and my model. Men who raise an eyebrow at the figure of Lilith are, in my mind, insecure of their intelligence and their masculinity.

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      lility story also shows who scriptures writers where and who their creation called god is...unfortunately there are people who still take this scriptures in literal sense...

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The funny thing is, those who take it in the literal sense hold up the figure of Eve as the model for women; whereas Lilith is the logical choice. By this story, Lilith was God's vision of perfection. Insisting on an alternate was Adam's first failure to accept God's judgement. Adam was a spoiled brat, whose Dad couldn't say no when he threw a tantrum.

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Your hero???
      
      She ate children as the myth goes.
      
      She raped boys and men.
      
      She killed children for pleasure.
      
      And she is your hero?
      
      Ted Bundy your hero too?

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         vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh dear, I knew she was bad but goodness...
         
         
         Thx for clearing that up in here.
         
         Wouldn't want people thinking she was a 'hero' doing all that now would we.. lol
         
         

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I suppose the fact that the figure of Mary Magdalene was slandered for centuries is acceptable to you also? Women need to know their place? If they don't, you expect other women to toe the line and help slander their names....in the name of Jesus? How typically 'Christian' of the both of you.

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               vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I said none of that, I just don't like the things Intimat posted.
               
               And I don't slander anyone in the Bible, I'm not the judge. I may discern their actions, but not say they are 'horrible' or otherwise. People aren't perfect.
               
               I actually think highly of Mary Magdalene. If I'm not mistaken she loved Jesus very much.
               
               I would say the same if a man done those things.
               
               I wasn't intending to be critical, I don't like pain and those things cause pain. I have seen children take ideas and turn into them because they didn't understand.
               
               Love you Emile.
               
               

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         We aren't talking bed time stories told to children in medieval times. Simply a woman who was willing to stand up for herself openly and honestly, and leave; rather than have a man force a petty desire down her throat.  I respect that.
         
         I can see you are a fan of Eve. I don't respect that figure. Women like that are backhanded and rarely explain openly what their beef is. They attempt to hide behind a smile while they try to insult others (usually failing) and stab others in the back. They attempt to be the neck that moves the head when in a relationship, because they think their primary asset can only be their womanly wiles. They don't respect themselves so they don't know how to respect others. Sneaky, sneaky. Yep,  I pity women like that.

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            vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Beef? Christian women are treated like gold.. Queens..
            
            If the man truly follows Christ.
            
            If the woman is unhappy or has 'beef' then it is an indicator the man is doing things wrong, and is not following Jesus Christ's commandments.

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               MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               ROFLMFAO!

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                  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  What's funny Ms Barrett?
                  
                  I'm being sincere. Is there doubt what I say has any truth?
                  
                  I would like to understand your view if you don't see things the same.
                  
                  I've never met anyone who only laughed at my sentiments regarding that subject.
                  
                  Or do you just not believe in Christ?
                  
                  You seem very, very amused. But I can't see any reason for it.
                  
                  I believe treating women with love and appropriate kindness and being understanding is immensely important. I did not fabricate the way I feel about the subject though. It is a product of Christ's teachings, and He is the cause for me understanding that I should be so toward them.
                  
                  

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Vector, since you said you love me in a previous post; I'll let this one slide.

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                  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  lol..
                  
                  Well it's only because it's true.
                  
                  

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               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               "If the woman is unhappy or has 'beef' then it is an indicator the man is doing things wrong, and is not following Jesus Christ's commandments".
               
               Some women are just stroppy cows with a random thought generator for a brain, you can't blame a man for that!

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                  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  My goodness, I suppose there is a man equivalent to that.
                  
                  I think I can think of a male individual in the forums right now with a random thought generator for a brain.. lol
                  
                  I believe 99% of hubpages would agree.
                  
                  [If you can't guess, don't ask.] lol
                  
                  

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   skyfireposted 12 years ago

   Who cares? Whoever plays the role of Lilith in any random hollywood movie is usually hot.

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   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   I'm not convinced of Lilith's existence. I've read few articles, and unless I'm very much mistaken, she is a character from folklore and superstition. She doesn't get a mention in the Hebrew scriptures so doesn't appear to be taken seriously by Israel.
   
   For the record I don't think that Adam and Eve were real characters either.

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ya adam ,eve is story according to me...but even if we consider lilith as story, she was strong woman ....

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         vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Deny the Bible as nonsense..
         
         Uphold a made up legend as truth..
         
         You people must be joking me......................

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sadly, I don't think they are joking...

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               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               No I'm not joking. I don't think Lilith or two individuals called Adam and Eve ever existed. the latter two are analogy, a position accepted by most Jews and the Catholic and Anglican Churches.
               
               Considering the genetic evidence that homo sapiens came out of Africa, where do a literal Adam & Eve fit in? If they are literal then we must accept a Young Earth Creationism interpretation of events...... which of course is nonsense.

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                  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  No there's no joke. Adam (Sam Malone), Eve (Edith Bunker), Lilith (Maude) never existed. Neither did the talking snake. Cute story though.

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                  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  Looky, we have a true Christian here... The Bible is true AND nonsense...
                  
                  
                  
                  You couldn't make some of the theories you people adopt up in a fiction novel and make anyone believe it. Wait, no, my bad - the atheists would.
                  
                  You people don't read The Holy Bible.. You re-write it!
                  
                  
                  
                  [I still love tou DH.. But I don't agree with a molecule of anything you write..]
                  
                  
                  I know you're probably upset. No more replies friend, don't worry.
                  
                  

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                     Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     The nonsense is to assume the whole bible is literally true. Jesus parables make little sense if read literally because they are analogy. Revelation makes no sense at all literally. So why should Genesis be any different?
                     
                     Or do you think Adam was literally made from a pile of dust and Eve literally from his rib? What are you going to do with the genetic evidence for the ancestry of man?
                     
                     Genesis was not written by Moses, but by at least four authors spanning many centuries. Chapters 1 and 2 contradict each other if read literally; the events are in a different sequence.
                     
                     Now I'm sorry if you think genetics and anthropology belong in a fiction novel, that's just too bad.

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                        mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        He got his education at a christian school, don't blame him for his lack of understanding. He doesn't know any better, it's been drilled into his head since he can remember.
                        
                        Remember:
                        Only the truly self critical are smart enough to break away. If one cannot listen to what he/she says, for him/herself, they will never grow beyond their own conditioned responses.

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                        HeadlyvonNogginposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I do think Adam was literally made outside of the progression of natural humans. The first 3 verses of chapter 6 explain our genetic connection to Mitochondrial Eve when it says the 'sons of God' found the 'daughters of humans' beautiful and married any of them they chose and had children by them. It then goes on to explain that humans are mortal and only live 120 years, one chapter after showing Adam's descendants living for centuries.
                        
                        All modern humans, with the exceptions of tribal cultures in central Africa, the Aborigines of Australia, and some of the island-bound tribes that never bred with modern humans, share ancestry both with Eve from Genesis and Mitochondrial Eve.
                        
                        Genesis 1 and 2 don't match because they're not the same event. Genesis 1 is the early humans (homo habilis, neanderthals, homo sapiens) who all originate in the Great Rift Valley in Eastern Africa, Genesis 2 is Adam in Mesopotamia. Genesis 2 even says God placed Adam in the Garden east of where he was formed....
                        
                        Genesis 2:8 – And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.
                        
                        The Sumerians, the Akkadians, The Babylonians, the Greeks, and the Romans all told stories of immortal human-like beings, male and female. In the case of the Sumerians, they all spoke of these beings being on the earth and physically inhabiting the temples of the pre-flood Sumerian cities.
                        
                        Both mythology and rapid advancements in technology and civilization in that region support the idea that an advanced 'tribe' of humans existed there for a time that forever changed the human race. The bible says they existed for nearly 1700 years before they were wiped out by a flood.
                        
                        Then, a handful of Noah's descendants, made up of both bloodlines as indicated by the gradual decrease in lifespans, got dispersed into an already populated planet, spreading free will throughout the world.

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                        vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        There is still a line DH, and you question anything you personally don't understand. Jesus taught in parables because that is how the Old Testament teaches.. Through stories of history. People's choices, and actions, and God's teaching them for you to read about and learn. Jesus also taught in parables to seperate the wheat from the chaff.. Some people just want a handout from God demanding answers and miracles wanting the good, but not caring about God.
                        
                        It's either written through man by the Holy Spirit, namely God, or not.
                        
                        You make EVERYTHING a simile or metaphor.. as if the entire book was poetry.
                        
                        You jump off the deep end making up new doctrines when people have been reading this stuff long before you got here, and if you'd listen to them instead of bashing all of their advice you'd understand more of the scripture and would question it's meanings less...
                        
                        

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                           Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Oh dear, I think you have me confused with someone else.
                           
                           I don't job off the deep end, I'm a professional systems development engineer; it's not something we do. But as I'm trained to do, I question everything, continually analyse and scrutinise to see if the commonly held belief can be supported by evidence, and look to see where tradition has changed the common understanding. Whether we talk about IT, engineering systems or theology, the approach is the same; emotionally detached logic to get to the truth.
                           
                           As for making up doctrines, that's what the Church has done since medieval times. I look to see what doctrines are held by Judaism and the early Church and compare these to doctrines held by fundies today.
                           
                           My advice to you is never ever accept what anyone tells you until you can find support for their claim from independent sources. Remember that next time your pastor of choice spoon feeds you a doctrine.

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                              vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I will say that though I disagree with you on everything, I do like you.
                              
                              At least the things you say are reasonable and not pushy, as I know I've been overbearing.
                              
                              The posting in atheist forums [not including all atheists in the analogy] and their techniques rub off slightly easy even if I don't mean it ugly, and type with a smile, it has occurred to me that it doesn't always come out how I intend nor can anyone see the smile, and they think the smiley is a lie. lol
                              
                              So apologies if I've been overbearing, I do stand firm in belief, but I don't want to be ugly. Was never my intention, and if I was it was misdirected unintentionally. 
                              
                              God bless DH
                              
                              

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                                 Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Apology accepted

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                                    vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think you've taught me more today than I've learned in a week.
                                    
                                    I'm delighted to say no matter your beliefs you set an excellent example and I'm ashamed of myself even if I knew or know for fact whatever I'm saying or debating is right, I need to do better about HOW I go about it. It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong, my conduct should be considerate and kind.
                                    
                                    And I haven't been. So more than apologies..
                                    
                                    Thank You DH......

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                              Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              You always come of as the voice of reason in, what can appear to be, the sea of insanity on the Hub Pages religious forum. If the religious would only follow your advice.

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                  HeadlyvonNogginposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I see how and why you view it that way, from hubs of yours I've read and previous comments you've made. The part that throws me is the fact that Genesis gives such specific detail about descendants that followed. That doesn't fit with the idea of them being metaphorical representatives of a group of people.
                  
                  But seeing Adam and Eve as literal doesn't necessarily mean 'young earth' is the only other option. I mean, look at the humans in Genesis 1. They did exactly what God said, to the letter. Early humans historically confirm this. They populated, subdued, and established dominance over the animal kingdom globally. If early humans had free will like Adam and Eve and everyone that followed clearly did, that wouldn't have happened. Humans are too unruly to accomplish such a large, specific task.
                  
                  With Adam and Eve, they weren't told what to do. They were only told what not to do. They were put in that peculiar test-like scenario with only one rule, which they broke. Then came the wicked element that required a flood not long after. Wickedness that's only possible through free will.
                  
                  I do believe Adam and Eve were specific individuals. They were the first beings to ever exist with a will outside of God's. History reflects this. The rise and spread of civilization reflects this. The tribal cultures that still exist today, that haven't bred outside of their ancestral roots, who continue to be content with simply living a life in harmony with nature reflects this.

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                     Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I think A&E were given to us in order to provide a framework for some useful teaching on God's principles and the nature of man. It's possible they were actual individuals, somebody had to have been the first to know God, but I can't take Genesis literally.

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            pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            @vector7 believing in bible myths stunts me....boy we are living in 2012...gud mor...we are not living some 2k yrs back where creative writing full of imaginations was considered to be true

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               vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Do it again..
               
               This is hilarious.....
               
               HIT REPLY, HIT REPLY!

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               vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well pisean.. You done it again.
               
               I like you too, but you make me laugh sooo hard sometimes.. lol
               
               Hope your not mad.
               
               From person to person,
               
               -v
               
               

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                  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  @vector7 i like ur madness about bible...as long as people like you are there , laughing wont become extinct...harry potter ,super man,spider man , jesus christ etc would remain icons

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                     vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Whatever you say, I don't particulary see the analogy's connections besides sarcasm.
                     
                     But ok.
                     
                     

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                        pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        @vector7 sarcasm...may be but out of my love for you

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   being equally yolked is a good thing ...  as long as you both don't feel that you  HAVE TO  be the one standing on the right side all the time.

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   MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

   Having a pretty good idea how any daughter of mine was going to turn out, I actually named her Lilith.  I was fairly accurate.
   
   Of course my third son was named Kaine...

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