Perfect God

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   ib radmastersposted 12 years ago

   If your God is Perfect than how is the Universe so Imperfect

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      madmachioposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nature is a perfect in it's balance.. Humans aren't and we are the ones that alter what God has made.

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         jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If nature and god is perfect, then why human beings are not??

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         ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Nature is the definition of imperfection.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What's imperfect about the universe?

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         ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The list is too numerous to list here.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Give us your top 5 things wrong with the universe then.

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      pedrogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What god are you talking about?

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         ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         God

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      samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Allah (God) is perfect and His Universe is perfect as well. If we see any imperfection then it's our lack of knowledge as we are not seeing the angle for which that imperfection is perfect. So nothing is imperfect if we see with the eye of God.

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         f_hruzposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Ever crossed your mind that gods are the creation of imperfect  human minds and nature has no use for any gods at all as it obvious  when you gain a clearer understanding of objective reality?

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            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I'm sure that has not crossed his mind!

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               skysposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well true that I may not have crossed my mind. But whatever I thought, researched and discovered, I found that whatever comes to our mind, does exist somewhere in the universe. If God is in our mind then it does exist somewhere.

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                  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure? Then what about mjglgjamgt and square circles? Do they exist too?

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                  Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow, so you think because you think it, it exists. I'm thinking of Santa right now? The tooth fairy? Purple elephants? Just because you want Got to exist doesn't mean he does. More people need to develop there critical thinking skills. Don't believe everything you're told.

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                  ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Then so does Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Baloney. JRR Tolkien would even disagree with you on that one.
                  
                  While our imaginations are boundless, the laws of physics are not.

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                     Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     the laws of physics are kinda like the path of rays of light.
                     
                       under the right circumstances; we can bend the heck out of them.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, believers do believe that of which they have no understanding and regardless of facts.

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                           Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes that may be true about YOU  and me!
                           
                                 OR   it ain't true at all

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                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes Jerami, believers do believe others believe nonsense just like they do.

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                        getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I KNEW Spiderman was real.  Thanks for proving that, Jerami.

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                           Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           It is always good to see your bright positive attitude enter the room.
                           
                             How Ya been?

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                              getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Been away working hard for awhile.  Still working hard, but taking a little time to visit hubpages.
                              
                              Hope you're doing well...and ready to debate.

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               ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I didn't understand your point either

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            ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, I missed your point.

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         ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Acts of God like tsunamis, kill people and we have no control.

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            samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I still say that whatever comes to your mind, it does exist. It does exist somewhere in the Universe if you remove the limitations of time and space. Now I will give you just a minor example though there are millions of such examples. In our fairy tales we use to read about some magic ball in which you could see every corner of the world. Now that magic ball is on your desktop in the form of computer. This example may not satisfy you. But you have the ability to give existence to anything you think about, how much ever logicless is that.

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               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So I gave existence to God by thinking of him? Hate to break this to you but by thinking of God all I did was give existence to my concept of God.

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                  samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  You could say in reverse as well... God thought about you and you got existence. "Hat to break this to you but by thinking of God all I did was give existence to my concept of God."  This is the valid and a good point as well.

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   Rad Manposted 12 years ago

   The paradox. hmmm. If God is perfect why do we live in a cruel world? If god is perfect then why does he need praise from us? If God can do anything can he make a rock he himself can't move? Would a God create such a cruel world? Why would God create psychopathic people?
   
   When you remove God from the equation the entire universe make sense. Try it. Even for just a moment.

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Which part of the universe do you perceive to be imperfect? Try removing energy. Once you've done that, add it back in and call it GOD.

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         Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         We know very little about the universe, so I'll speak about what we do know about in our universe. Earth, we live in a cruel, sometimes painful world. The lucky ones are born smart and good looking, the unlucky ones don't make it to their first birthday. Spend some time in a children's hospital and you will understand what an imperfect world looks like. Ever watch a predator start to eat it's prey before it's dead? Animals feel pain and fear the same way we do. Ever wonder how many human succumbed to the same fate? Never mind getting preyed on by another animal, humans do it to each other.
         Praying doesn't help. The hospitals are full of people praying. Cancer does not discriminate.
         In a perfect world there would be no birth defects.
         In a perfect world there would be no hunger.
         In a perfect world there would be no cancer.
         and so on.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Remove all of the imperfections and we have no incentive to learn how to eradicate disease. We have no need to attempt to find a way to stamp out hunger. We have no reason to understand the needs of the rest of life on earth. And our curiosity would be forever stunted.
            
            Remove imperfections from the world we inhabit and we would find ourselves gluttons who selfishly use every resource at our disposal wantonly. We would have no consideration because there would be no need for concern. The world might be perfect....but the goal of caring for others would be so far removed from our collective view that it would never cross our minds

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               mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               If God were perfect, the idea would be accepted accross the board, no matter it's derivation. There is no perfect God, that resides in the fallible minds of the people.

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. But, I agree with you. No collective idea could equate to perfection. It is human nature to find flaws in other people's ideas.

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               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               This looks more like a world nature created and not one a perfect god created. I wouldn't create a world where animals eat other animals and there certainly would not be parasites. Guinea Worms, Candiru and Ascaris infection comes to mind. Only nature could spawn such nasty creates.

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That is definitely a strong possibility and one I lean toward accepting due to the obvious facts. But, if I were a god I think I'd still see the up side of setting events in motion on a similar track. If I had faith in my own creation, of course.

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                     Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, but most think God know everything and if so setting things in motion would be meaningless. He would know that these parasites would develop. Why would anyone let that happen?

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               getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               That's why I have no desire to go to "heaven"

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I hope, if heaven exists, that it has nothing to do with endless golf courses and harp music...but it would be endless learning with purpose. Growing toward another purpose. Eternity is a a difficult concept to fathom. Without the hope of growth and change I can't see the up side.

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               jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Isn't this perfect world called 'heaven'?

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know. Isn't heaven supposed to be another dimension? I understood the OP to be complaining about life on earth.

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               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Removing imperfection from the world would also remove our own imperfections.

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            Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Many birth defects are caused by man's own hand. People go hungry and starve because of man's inability to adequately distribute food where it is needed. Much waste, greed, and inefficiency. Cancer is being stopped. The advances that have been made over the last few decades have curtailed the number of deaths from several different kinds. That's why God gave us brains. The world is perfect. And we are perfect also. Just gettin' the bugs worked out. Even Microsoft had to do that.

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               jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yea, it is called 'sex'!!

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                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The universe with or without God, is useless to us, and it is filled with deadly objects, even in our own solar system.
      
      It is a kludge.

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      samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Radman dear, the cruelty, disabilities, diseases etc don't mean that the world is imperfect. These are created to make this universe perfect if you think. Suppose there would not be any poor then what would be there???? There would be no rich of course.... If there would be no disease then there would be no health as well. Very simply, if there would not be imperfection then how would you know the meaning of PERFECTION?

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         Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         samadasiam you have a very interesting perspective on life. A world without disease, poverty and disabilities would be called heaven.
         That being said, you don't need decease to have heath, you can just have health. Why would a god that loves us give us Ascaris infection or Guinea Worms (look them up) when he has already created a world without decease? The answer lies in nature and evolution. Cruelty is cruelty no matter where it comes from.

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            samadaslamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "Cruelty is cruelty no matter where it comes from."... Yes you are right. We can't deny the existence of anything whether it is good or bad. This life and universe is so simple that can be packed in a single dot

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   phillippeengelposted 12 years ago

   The world is imperfect because some people are resilient in deliberately and effectively spreading extremist ideology. Terrorist groups that subscribe to its ideology spread noxious ideas to gain legitimacy for their cause and make their violent acts seem acceptable.
   
   That is how some countries cannot achieve peace, progress and prosperity (usually because they do not pledge determination to cooperate against threats through joint police and intelligence measures). That is how the world becomes imperfect.

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There are no perfectly flat surfaces, just as there are no perfect people.

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This has little to do with the universe.

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Rad Man wrote
   This looks more like a world nature created and not one a perfect god created. I wouldn't create a world where animals eat other animals and there certainly would not be parasites
   
   
   ==============
   ME
     Are you saying that in a perfect world eagles wouldn't eat rabbits, or owls wouldn't eat mice?  or would we simply eliminate these life forms.
   
   Every living thing on this earth is a parasite which preys upon another life form.
     And every life form depends upon the parasitic nature of other life forms for its own survival.       
    
     So I think we need to think some more about "IF" that which we perceive to be a perfect would in fact suport any form of life at all.
   
      I know I can't think of a way to create a better system.
   
      We just need to operate, within the system we have, More efficiently !

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is exactly what I was thinking Jerami. I thought it would be a fun exercise to open a thread and see what everyone envisioned as 'the perfect world' and see how fast flaws in the design were pointed out. I don't think it gets much better than this, even with the flaws in place.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you.
         
           Hope more ideas still come.
         
            I'm in and out of the house some more today. SOooo   see ya later.

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   awareposted 12 years ago

   the universe    is not good enough for you? and gods to blame for this? sighs.

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      My hometown is a superfund cleanup site not because of radical ideology. Birth defects and cancers galore..

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         God bless America! Land of the deluded!

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   awareposted 12 years ago

   i live in the acreage. west palm.   middle of  a cluster . god  isnt involved
   Prat Whitney   more likely

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   awareposted 12 years ago

   earth is a ruff  town nature  comes for all. its not personal

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Problem isn't nature. Problem isn't even religion. More like a lack of it or pure understanding of it. The problem is everybody trying to get what they can as quickly as they can before anyone else has a chance, and proceeding with every new thing before the full implications of their actions can be assesed.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, religion is huge problem that accomplishes little more than create more problems.

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            Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So does technology.

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         ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         sounds like a Manifesto

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   awareposted 12 years ago

   lions  do not ware wrist watches.

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      they have a built in alarm clock.

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      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But don't turn your back on a lion. They don't see you as special. They see meat.

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't see myself as special either. I bleed, eat pee, and poop. Wild animals are somewhat unconcerned with me. Lived in a wilderness camp up on the Divide. Crows and I have a complicated relationship, but doves seem to like me fine. Most dogs like me, but cats are too aloof for that to extend to them.

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            Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            supposed to be a comma between eat and pee.

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               Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               smileing  real "large"
               
               
               
                 edit.
               
                 It makes sense either way.

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            Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I have to say you completely lost me. Made me laugh with the eat pee thing... but I have no idea how any of that connects to this thread.

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   Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years ago

   Of Course God is Perfect! The Universe is perfect as well, what is wrong is the perception of a fallen man whose mind is faulty! Once you correct yourself by new birth then you see all is perfect.

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      ib radmastersposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Acts of God, as they are ironically called are not under the control of humans, and they exist to destroy and kill, along with disease and pestilence.
      
      God has failed at everything he has done according to the bible.
      He failed with the Angels, Adam and Eve....Cain.....etc

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    ib radmastersposted 12 years ago

    This forum is on its own, it has mutated to the point where the issue is no longer relevant.

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