If Yahuwshuwa did away with the law.....

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   Abihahyil Shawmarposted 12 years ago

   Then why does Paul call it set-apart, righteous, good and spiritual?
   
   Rom 7:12  So that the Torah truly is set-apart, and the command set-apart, and righteous, and good.
   Rom 7:14  For we know that the Torah is spiritual: but I am fleshly, sold under sin.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      He didn't do away with the law, but fulfilled it. What's the beef?

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "I come not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it!" I agree with DH

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         Abihahyil Shawmarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I posted this because the Christian says "Since Jesus fulfilled the Law, it has been done away with therefore I do not need to keep the Law" But it says in Rom 2:13 "For not the hearers of the Torah are righteous in the sight of Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be declared right."
         
         The Law tells us what sin is Rom 7:7 "What, then, shall we say? Is the Torah sin? Let it not be! However, I did not know sin except through the Torah. For also the covetousness I knew not if the Torah had not said, “You shall not covet.”
         
         Mat 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
         
         Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work Lawlessness!’
         
         Even Paul says: 1Co 11:1 "Become imitators of me, as I also am of Messiah."  Yahuwshuwa kept Torah, we are to follow His example.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            God promised in Jeramiah that he would write the law in the minds and hearts of Israel. That is they would obey the spirit of the law in accordance with their good conscience, it would be natural. We can argue that he does the same for Gentiles when they believe in him.
            
            However, who was Jesus talking to? He stated that he came to the lost sheep of Israel. I am not, I'm a gentile dog, and the mosaic law is not my inheritance because I'm not of Israel.
            
            You might also want to read Acts 15 where Peter explicitly stated that Gentiles should not be subject to the mosaic law.
            
            Besides which it is faith in Christ that justifies us.

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               Abihahyil Shawmarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Act 15:1  And certain men came down from Yehudah and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised, according to the practice of Mosheh/Moses, you are unable to be saved.”
               So these men were teaching that the gentiles had to be circumcised to be saved (salvation by works) which is not Scriptural for it has always been the faith, then the fruit of that faith is obedience.
               
               Hab 2:4  Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
               Jas 2:17  So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead.
               Jas 2:18  But someone might say, “You have belief, and I have works.” Show me your belief without your works, and I shall show you my belief by my works.
               Jas 2:19  You believe that Elohim is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder!
               Jas 2:20  But do you wish to know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead?
               Jas 2:21  Was not Abraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the altar?
               Jas 2:22  Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?
               Jas 2:23  And the Scripture was filled which says, “Abraham believed Elohim, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And he was called, “Elohim’s friend.”
               Jas 2:24  You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone.
               
               Now back to Acts 15 and what was decided.
               Act 15:19  “Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the gentiles who are turning to Elohim,
               Act 15:20  but that we write to them to abstain from the defilements of idols, and from whoring, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
               Act 15:21  “For from ancient generations Mosheh/Moses has, in every city, those proclaiming him – being read in the congregations every Sabbath.”
               These were good beginning instructions to the gentiles coming out of paganism and into the faith. The apostles knew they would learn the rest of Torah in the congregations on Sabbath for Moses was read weekly.

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                  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The works that James talks about are the evidence of our faith in Christ. Not salvation by works, but the out working of a changed life through faith in Christ.
                  
                  Acts 15: 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
                  
                  See also Romans 2: 14-15, 3: 21-24, 3: 28-30.
                  
                  Righteousness comes by faith, and as Abraham was declared righteous before the law came to being, thus part from the law, so Gentiles are also declared righteous apart from the law.
                  
                  So if you don't mind I have a bacon sandwich in the kitchen with my name on it.

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                     Abihahyil Shawmarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Gen 26:5  because Aḇraham obeyed My voice and guarded My Charge: My commands, My laws, and My Torot1.”
                     Footnote: 1Torot - plural of Torah, teaching

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               Chris Nealposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Well stated!

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   jacharlessposted 12 years ago

   Kevin, I concur.
   
   The law was given strictly and solely to the Hebrews.
   By obedience, to the law, were blessed -which was the Old Coven.
   By example, proved the law could not fully redeem the spirit according to works by/of faith.
   
   No other civilization is blessed or cursed under the law -old coven, despite what many modern doctrines persist on teaching.
   
   'Gentiles' were grafted into grace, not the law.
   
   James.

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      Abihahyil Shawmarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Gal 3:28  There is not Yehudite/Jew nor Greek, there is not slave nor free, there is not male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahuwshuwa. Gal 3:29 " And if you are of Messiah, then you are seed of Abraham, and heirs according to promise."

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         Robertr04posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You are plainly told that belief(faith) does not save us(James 2:14-19). Paul also stated that we are saved by faith and grace, but Yahusha Himself said that guarding HIS COMMANDMENTS was the true way to prove we love Him(John 14:15,21,24). Why are so many claiming Paul changed the law, are we Paulites? If the Son stated with his own breath that the only way to prove our love is by keeping the commandents why do we debate? Why do we challenge and disresect His words? Christians, Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and many others have all started some form of religion that is centered around "freedom" from the curse of the law. But when my friend asked a married christian man if it was ok to sleep with his wife, he was said to be a worker of "the devil" and disrespecful. Can we not understand even the most basic of scripture? The law works out wrath, so where there is no law, there is no transgression(breaking of a law Rom. 4:15). So, asking you again, if we are free from the law, why was my friend wrong for asking the man to let him commit adultery with his wife? Why is it wrong to commit murder? Even by the standard of this sick world, certain points of the 10 commands are upheld. Do you remember the rich young ruler? When he asked Yahusha what was needed for eternal life, keeping the commandments was the first thing Mashyach(messiah) said(Matt.19:17). There will be those who will heatedly throw insults at those who guard the commands of the Creator. We all fall short and sin , but fearing Yahuah and keeping His commands(if you fall, get back up!) is the entire essence of who we are. If you say you know the Father and the Son, but you refuse to keep the commandments, you are a liar and the truth does not dwell in you(1 John 2:4). Shalum

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            janesixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Now hes yahusha?

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   @ts chill...taking 2k yr old book too seriously doesnot serve any...time to let go of such books...

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      Robertr04posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's entirely up to you bro. He always gives you a choice, can't beat it.

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