The good news
I was just thinking about something, and I don't think I can express myself properly as to my reasons for asking so I'm just going to ask this question.
In the origional Hebrew and/or Greek versions
Did Jesus instruct his desciples to go out and spread the Good News, or did he say something else?@jermani how does it matter?...news was good according to jesus and led to death of him and his early disciples....god himself could not protect his sons news spreader....it is enough to understand authenticity of good news...
The Good News is simply (and wonderfully!) the message of Hope for redemption from our sins! The promise and fulfillment of that power is Jesus Christ.
It really is that simple.I agree that this is Good news today.
And I admit that my opinion is but one of many.
But if we could go back in time? to that time. We would see, that portion which is recorded as the Gospel of Christ was already generally accepted by the general public at that time.
Every Hebrew was expecting their Messiah because they understood the prophesies written by Daniel.
So the good news would have simply been that he has risen, confirming that he was their messiah which they had been waiting for so long. And that their end of days were coming soon.
And if we do not believe that it did, then we do not believe what Jesus said.
When we change the meaning of Jesus’ message to agree with our understanding, we automatically lose our understanding.
It is that simple.
I think that the most important portion of Jesus’ teachings were not included in the bible.
The only part of his teachings found to be acceptable to be included into the bible is that part that was generally acceptable to the general population.
And it is not necessary for anyone to go out and teach that which is already accepted.
A prophet does not come to deliver a message that is already known.
His message will not be found to be generally acceptable.Surely a prophet does indeed do just that!
The message never gets old.
The intended audience is ever-changing; people are born every day who need to hear the Good News. And people die every day, hopefully having heard the Good News from somebody!
I can see a bit of where you're coming from, Jerami...
But in truth, isn't it just how I said it? No soul is to be dismissed. The message is to be preached until the "End". There is no "new" prophecy.
Every Christian is a "prophet", telling over and over the story of God's amazing Grace, of His great Love for mankind, so much Love that He sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins!
I just spent almost an hour writing an explination .. and posted it.
And as soon as I hit the submitt button ... My computer shut down momentarily.
For now I will take that as a sign.
In short ... I don't think that the Good News which was sent out all across the known world was that which we think it was.Well Jerami, unless God allows your computer to restore what was lost, or you explain what you think the 'Good News' actually was, we will never know!
Maybe I was coming out a little too strong and it didn't need to be pushed upon anyone? Maybe it is best to simply ask the question and plant a seed for thought?
Thanks ... I now gotta go out into the world and handle some business..
When I come back I hope to find the answer to my question .... CAUSE ... I really would like to know the answer.
Please forgive my ignorance but...what exactly was the good news.
That is the question.
When it was first commanded to go out and give the good news to the people; what was the good news exactly?
Most of that which Jesus's preached had already been written SSOooo that is my question ; what exactly was this New News which his followers were instructed to go out into the world and tell?And when we have established what the good news is, we can then answer the next question which is, did God attach strings to the good news?
I'm dressed and heading out the door but before I go. Just wanted to say, there will always be one more question.
Finding the truth is kinda like pealing an onion.
Once we have pulled off one layer .. we find another and another until we finally reach the center (If we get that far)
And when we get to the center we find the remanent of the seed which started this process off in the first place.
Which raises the question concerning the beginning of one process which seems to have resulted at the end of another ... thuss, there will always be one more question.
BUT the question at hand is, what exactly was the good news which they were instructed to teach.
I don't think it was just a new version of an old lesson.The good news was that we now have a way to escape hell, The good news was that all that is needed for our salvation was done.
Agreed, augustine72!
I didn't see your post before I posted mine. You said it simply and beautifully!Man has a spirit that is eternal which means it does not have an end. If a person accepts the way of escape provided to him the spirit spends the eternity with God. That place is called heaven. There is a place where those who do not escape will have to spend eternity in. That place is called hell.
There are questions like where is it, how will that place be, what do you mean by pain if you do not have a body etc. I do not not the answers and I do not think those are relevant. What is important is there is such a place and it would be quite an uncomfortable place to spend eternity.Please show me the following:
Three scriptures stating that nan has an immortal eternal spirit retaining all memories and consciousness post mortem.
Three scriptures stating the we go to heaven immediately following death.
Three scriptures stating that people go to a location called hell immediately following death.You have asked me for three verses. I do not know why you would need any verses at all for this because the entire Bible revolves around man's eternal destiny and God's plan regarding it. In any case let me present you some verses:
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
These verses are for all the three you asked.No you have not provided any evidence for an immortal human spirit. This is a pagan concept not found in the bible.
Jesus teaches that he will raise up those who believe in him on the last day (resurection). And Paul also emphasises that to be with Jesus we must first be resurected. Thus no one gets to heaven when they die.
The lake of fire event, which is another kettle of fish, happens after the second resurection at the end of the age, so nobody goes to hell when they die either.Jeremiah 1:5
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Before I formed you in the womb I knew [and] approved of you[as My chosen instrument], and before you were born I separated and set you apart, consecrating you; [and] I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
What were we BEFORE we were formed in the womb?
Just asking DH.....God dwells outside of time ad sees the end from the beginning. So he saw us from the start of creation. That does not mean that we pre-existed before the womb.
You could be right?
but there is nothing explicitly saying that we didn't either.
If mankind does posses a soul, I don't think that soul is created when an egg is fertilized. That would mean that mankind is creating souls like so many blades of grass. That would be kinda like a blade of grass reproducing and then a soul comes into existence.
I think that if mankind does posses a soul, it existed before it entered into the human form.
And it would be necessary for it to NOT retain any knowledge of its prior existence in order to reap full benefits of having this physical experience.
That might have been the reason for the do over described in Noah’s flood. In the beginning we did retain prior knowledge and that screwed everything up. The board was cleared and one minor adjustment was added to the original plan. We leave everything behind when we enter this plane of existence.
God said let US created physical man in our image. ?? We are US.God is not ambiguous. If there is something we need to know He makes it clear to us. If man existed before he was put into a physical covering then that is concerning us and it is something important. When there are so many revelations regarding creation, angels, heaven, hell and eternity he would not leave this leave this unrevealed to us. So we can derive that we did not exist before we were created.
By the way it does not say God created the physical man in His image.God is not ambiguous. If there is something we need to know He makes it clear to us.
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me
Have you ever learned something that you wish that you had not?
Ever heard the expression "never let the right hans know what the right hand is doing"?
Sometimes a plan requires that another person does not know what the plan is in order for it to work.
Just suppose that we did come down here (fall) to this physical realm of existence, and we brought with us all prior knowledge. That would defeat the purpose of having a place like this to come to.
Rev. 4:11 ".. for thy hast created all things, for thy pleasure are they created.
For this reason only? What does that mean.
First you need to know that death is not the end but death is a separation. When a person dies his body which is a physical entity is separated from spirit.
The spirit of a man does not go to hell or heaven immediately after death. It goes to another place where it waits for the Judgment day. It is after this that the spirit goes to either heaven or hell. On that day Jesus will bring them out of the temporary place and this is called resurrection.
The verses that I showed you are some among the many verses that talks on the subject. These verses talk about eternal punishment. If the spirit has to be punished for ever it should exist for ever. That shows that the spirit is eternal. The verses are pretty clear.According to the genesis account, God made man from the dust, that is he is a physical being with similar attributes to God such as self awareness, creativity, etc, etc.
Now if I was to take a photo of you and get it printed, that photo is an image of you. It is not made of flesh and blood and the you are not made of paper and ink. Thus the image is made of different stuff. Likewise being made in God's image does not mean we have a spirit, we have flesh instead.
God then breathed into the man and it became a living soul. Note God breathed his life, not a spirit either ours or his, but life, consciousness. Thus the soul is consciousness and is a function of the bio electro chemical workings of the brain. When the brain dies, when God takes back his breath of life, the soul and conciousness ceases to be. So post mortem consciousness is impossible.
Also, the soul being a function of the brain develops over time and it's origins are when the stem cells of an embryo first begin to form brain cells.
These are easy concepts to grasp.So, why not just call it for what it is rather than making up another name and attaching an invisible sky fairy to it?
If you read the bible with an intention of finding fault that is what you will find out of it. If you read it with sincerity to know the truth then you will know it.
Here is the verse:
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
There are two words here. One "image" and the other "likeness". Image means similar to look at or similar in appearance. 'Likeness' means 'similar to' or 'modeled after'. God creates man in His likeness that is similar to His nature and in His image that is similar in appearance. God is a Spirit and so man was created with something that was similar in appearance to God - spirit.
In fact the body is not important. It is just a case in which the real person the - spirit - is encased. God is more concerned with the spirit than the body.Augustine, likeness does not denote the same. Yes man is modelled after God's attributes of self awareness creativity ,etc, etc, but for you to claim an immortal spirit too, that's assumption, and reading something that's not there.
Now God told Adam he would die after eating of the tree of K.G.E. but if Adam has a spirit that cannot die, that is the real Adam that was encased in a flesh container, then God is a liar. Your call.You keep repeating things. Why then are two words used there "likenss" and "image"?
Death is seperation. In this sense Adam's spirit did die on the same day he are the fruit. I have a hub where I explain this in detail. Its called "The Consequence".
The "Good News" was and is that Jesus through His being crucified became the sacrificial lamb offered for the sins of all mankind, so that the gateway to Heaven was reopened allowing those who by faith believed in this could approach God finally in a sinless state. Also the "Good News" was and is that by Jesus Resurrection back to life, Jesus had also defeated death showing that by faith though we die a physical death, spiritually we no longer die, and once we die physically, our spirit returns home to heaven and to our father God.
This is all predicated upon our acceptance, our belief,through our faith that Jesus was crucified and became resurrected for us.
Good news travels...bad news travels much faster. At least you know why after two thousand years not everyone has gotten the message yet.
It looks like no one knows what the Good news was.
It had to be something NEW or it wouldn't have been news ... didn't it?I don't know. I just think there was something more than that. There was already a belief in a resurection and with repentance of our sins we could be saved.
I think .. the rescurrection of Christ was the issue, this proved that he was the Messiah they were awaiting for so long. Everything else written in the NT was old news.
Just seems that there had to be more to the story.
I think that IF the Whole story were known (?), it would be a different kind of world we live in today.
Religion of the day didn't want the real story to be told, And I don't think that the religion that Constantine built wanted it known either.
whatever it is? this is what is hidden at the Vatican.You are right that the religion which Constantine built did not want to know the story. If you search to find what a course in astrology is all about they don't and can't give you the entire course!! The good news will then be that the are offering such a course. To know more you need to join the course and it will take some time for you to cover the syllabus.
If I am not mistaken, Wasn't these messages sent to those which were asigned positions of authority over his people. And these messages were usually conserned with the fact that the people who was already his were being lead astray.
I think that it would be much more important to God that his people not be lead astray than it would be to add to these numbers. Just as it would be for us to attempt to guide those of our own family first before we attempt to give our neighbors child correction.
I would be watching my own children with much more diligance than I would my neighbors children. I think this is why Jesus said that he had come but for the lost sheep of Israel. If he could just get his children to act right, then "The Other" children would want to come over and play, then the good behavior of his children would rub off on the "Other" children.
But our way of thinking is not going to rub off on the other children when they precieve our behavior to be abusive,
We catch more flys with sugar than with vinigar.
I think this lesson is why The Hebrews ware "chosen" in the first place.
As an example to the world. But they never did act right. And we are not doing much better.
I think I may have gotten off topic? And maybe not so much?
And I still didn't express very well what I was trying to.In Matthew 15: 22-28, a woman of Canaan appealed to Jesus to heal her daughter.
Jesus, yes, said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
He even referred to the Jews as "children" and the Gentiles (like the Canaanite woman herself!) as "dogs".
But watch what happened next. The woman's Faith was great, she begged again, and Jesus healed her daughter!
I see it as Jesus testing her Faith. An illustration that anyone can be a child of God when they humble themselves before the Lord; and an illustration of how God provokes the Jews to jealousy by offering salvation to the Gentiles. No matter what, the Bible says He came to die for the sins of the whole world, not just for a particular set of people.
Many of the Jews (His "chosen" people) were indeed straying. Honestly, if He waited for all His people, then or now!, to straighten up and fly right and be that great example to everyone else, He would have a long wait! Well, He HAS already had a long wait! And for eternity He might've had to wait! For we are all sinners basically. But some of us have that kind of Faith that the Canaanite woman had. It didn't matter to her what category people put her in or what Nationality she was, etc. She simply focused on the fact that Jesus was the one who had the power to heal her daughter. She appealed to Him. A picture of repentance and begging for forgiveness.
And when Jesus was asked about eating with sinners, He did say He came to call sinners to repentance but not the righteous. Many people take that as a rebuke of the Phariseeical attitude of the the religious leaders. And maybe it was. But I see it as also that He simply wanted everyone to be saved. The sinners were in need of salvation; all sinners, period.
I don't see it as "rubbing off" on anyone. Jesus personally spoke to the Canaanite woman, even though His disciples had begged Him to send her away!
It isn't that we aren't supposed to be a good example to sinners, because we are! And our witnessing to others is effectual often. But we can't save anyone. Each person has to make that decision themselves. They hear the Good News. Then the Holy Spirit draws them to the point of decision. It's not necessarily what messenger brings the word (although messengers do often have an influence); it's the Message that matters. The Good News.
Brenda, I do see your point, and I can't disagree as to that outlook.
or perseption.
My origional question was posed from a differnt prospective.
From the point of view that those desiples must have had.
Every Hebrew in that most likely knew what the prophesy said concerning their coming Messiah.
The statue as seen in Daniel 2 represented the repression of the Hebrew peoples, This opression was said to be carried out by four kingdoms.
And in the end times of their opression a stone will be cut out without hand which will crush the statue (opression).
Daniel 7 % 8 depicted a similar end.
Daniel 9 established a timeframe which all of these prophesy shall come to fulfillment.
From 538 BC it shall be 62 weeks and the Messiah will be cut off (killed).
Jesus' death and rescurection was proof that Jesus was their Messiah and It was their impression that there was only 8 more weeks left of their opression, according to Daniel C.9.
This was their good news from their prospective, and they wanted to get this good news out as much as possible as quickly as possible.
Jesus Has Risen! And that is still good news,
I'm just saying that we must remember all of what this "good news" intailed at that time, or we miss most of the message.
This was part of the good news!Ah, Jerami, you're still trying to sort out the events in the book of Daniel. I admit I'm not nearly as researched as you are about that.
Actually I've not done any reasearch on Daniel for quite some time.
However, it never ceases to amaze me how much and how often my perspection of the Book of Daniel affects the way I preceive most all other biblical matters.
I think that is what it was intendeed to do. That is until we interpret other meanings into it which go against everything that it is actually saying.
Once a deception begins it never ends. First we misinterpret one thing , then we have to keep on doing it or admitt we were wrong to do it the first time. And that seldom ever happens.If you feel that we have been deceived or some story was hidden could you share with us some details about it?
I have sharing this since I came to HP. All of my hubs are on this issue,
I've always been concerned with the way Matthew 23 and 24 have been misinterpreted. These two chapters should really be just one and we would immediately have a different perspective.
Jesus was talking to four disciples in a "Private" conversation when he tells them that which they were going to endure,
In Daniel 9 it explains that a 62 weeks in prophesy is equal to approx 568 of our years. But this fact is over looked and upon necessity (?), misinterpreted away.
The visions described and interpreted by Gabriel clearly explains that the vision described in Chapters 2, 7, and 8 are about the first four kingdoms given dominion over "THAT" Hebrew Nation which existed before 138 AD.
Chapters 11 and 12 specifically states that "The Little Horn" as described in C 8 ... when He comes to his end; AT THAT TIME shall Michael stand up for the children of Daniels people and some of them will be redeemed from among Man.
This too has been interpreted into oblivion.
Jesus Christ came back in the clouds exactly as he said that he would (96 AD)
That is a very good point. Which brought about a really strange thought!
And I want to ask you what You think.
Before I was born into this life I was conscious in another plane of existence and chose to experience life in this physical existence. The consciousness which I was is what we call in this life, my subconscious mind.
When I consciously do stuff which my subconscious mind doesn't agree with, people might say that I have a guilty conscience .
When I do that, this is what is described in scriptures as SIN.
Now if I commit what is called an abominable sin, Could it be possible that this kills the consciousness which came into this body with at birth?
Then when my physical body dies? my physical mind dies along with the physical body? Having killed my subconscious mind, there would be nothing left but hell, Eternal nothingness.
So to have life eternal we have to be one with our self; and make right choices. Doing no harm to others.
This might be said to be a Christ consciousness.
Just a thought.This would mean you existed eternally. No. You were created. Before you were you did not exist.
God gave man laws by which he needs to lead his life. Violations of those laws is called a Sin.
Mind is not physical. The brain is a processing unit which processes information given by mind which is not physical. When we die only the brain dies. The spirit containing the information is does not die.
Can I ask where you got this from? Because I don't believe Jesus Christ ever said this.Interested on your take of the original question I asked DH:
Jeremiah 1:5
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Before I formed you in the womb I knew [and] approved of you[as My chosen instrument], and before you were born I separated and set you apart, consecrating you; [and] I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.
What were we BEFORE we were formed in the womb?
I agree that at some point God decided to create us as spiritual entities, and as we know that in this existence we are spirits with a body, rather than bodies with a spirit, and leave here to return to spirit, discarding the body, but what were we BEFORE we were born?
Were we spirit forms and injected into life, or was our spirit ONLY created at conception?
And if we were created at conception, what does Jer 1:5 refer to?
Also, could it be that when we step into salvation, we become eternal, and if we are eternal beings, then does that ONLY run forward, or when we die, will we be able to exist before we existed in physical form?
e·ter·nal
adjective
1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
Curious.... to know others opinions and see if we can sort these items out, is the dictionary incorrect, does eternity only start when we step into it, or have we always been eternal and just forgot it when we started this gig?Let me clarify this verse. It is like saying before I built my house I set up its bedroom. So where was the house before it was constructed? In my mind. Before God created you He had set you apart in His thoughts.
So this verse simply shows God's plans for you before you were born.OK, assuming that you are correct, then is the dictionary incorrect?
Does eternity only start when we step into it, or have we always been eternal and just forgot it when we started this gig?
Or more simply, I can understand how something eternal can have not existed prior to eternity being created, but once eternity exists how can it not be eternal in all senses?
How does this affect Ephesians 1?
Ephesians 1 4-5
Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love.
For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent]
Those verses suggest to me that we existed before anything physical existed, and therefore could have only been existent as eternal spirits not yet injected into physical form.
You can see that I have difficulty accepting that God held all the folk to ever be created on earth as non existent thought patterns about how each one of their lives would map out, once He decided to create them in their mothers womb.
Scripture to back your concept would be appreciated, I do not wish to be in error.
augustine72 said
Mind is not physical. The brain is a processing unit which processes information given by mind which is not physical. When we die only the brain dies. The spirit containing the information is does not die.
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me
you are Word playing for the sake of argument....Which only distracts from the point being made
A process does not have physical form yet it "is". The process "IS" established and performs that which it does. According to man made definitions, exist encompasses physical form. Until someone does word playing with those also. Definitions are subject to change.
====================
Me from earlier
So to have life eternal we have to be one with our self; and make right choices. Doing no harm to others.
This might be said to be a Christ consciousness.
= - - =
You
Can I ask where you got this from? Because I don't believe Jesus Christ ever said
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me
As I said in the post ... This is an idea which just popped into my thinking process, and then ask what you thought about it.
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you
I don't believe Jesus Christ ever said this.
= - =='s
me
Do you think that anything can be true if it isn't mentioned in the bible?
Even if it doesn't actually contradict the written word?
In order for anything to be true, Does it have to conform to your interpretation of those verses which you choose to debate an issue with ? When we get caught up in the spirit of debate, truth is seldom the result.
Because truth is not the objective ...You cannot claim Jesus said something when it is not in the Bible. That is why God has given us the Bible. I am not saying that Jesus did not say anything other than what is mentioned in the Bible. But the words of the Bible is sufficient to get the picture about what Jesus was all about and about what salvation is. Anything outside this picture has no authenticity.
You said
Here is the verse:
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
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ME
If scripture was written for Us .. Us means US! IF this is true,
WE created us in our own image. And we created us for our pleasure. And we are affected eternally by the experiences that we have while we are here.
Yes that sounds like blasphemy, but is it really?
Didn't Jesus say that we are all sons of God?
SOoo when God said let us make (physical) man in OUR image, I think he was talking to his children; (US).
We are who we preceive ourselves to be on a much grander scale than we can imagine.You are totally confused. When God said "Let us make man" He did not mean us because we did not exist then.
Why do you put words in? ("Physical")
What is your question?
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