Global Warming: Ploy to Undermine the Prosperity of Americans

1. 68

   Nickny79posted 15 years ago

   Why Climate Change is ALL about politics and NOTHING about Science.
   
   
   http://blog.heritage.org/2008/12/12/mor … /#comments

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      In what way is this related to science?

      replyreport
      1. 68

         Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         It's related to Science insofar as Science is being used for political purposes.

         replyreport
         1. 80

            Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            You are trying to argue that Global Warming does not exist because politicians are jumping on the bandwagon. That is a weak argument - denying Global Warming because a right wing blog comes out with some anti-Obama rhetoric does not affect the issue in the slightest. This belongs on the politics forum. Come back when you have a scientifically based argument rather than an anti-Socialist agenda.

            replyreport
            1. 68

               Nickny79posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Until YOU conduct your own scientific study based on real empirical evidence, statistics and such (and get it published in a reputable scholarly article), you're not in a position to make any "scientific" arguments either.  Otherwise, everything you write, think and speak is scientific hearsay (and probably liberal hearsay).  Contrary to popular belief, scientists are NOT politically neutral.

               replyreport
               1. 80

                  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I have a science degree, of which Oceanography/Climatology was a large part. Therefore, I know how to tell reputable science and junk science apart. Please stop making assumptions - I know far more about the scientific method than sensationalist journalists.
                  
                  I agree with you that 95% of the research upon Global Warming, on both sides, is heavily biased, but I am fully aware of this and check the credentials of any researcher. I certainly do not make a judgment based upon liberal hearsay.

                  replyreport
2. 84

   kerrygposted 15 years ago

   The title of that post is pretty hilarious. What on earth do they think we're doing now?

   replyreport
3. 0

   Leta Sposted 15 years ago

   Oh, yawn....  I'd encourage people to read absolutely everything they can--then come up with their own ideas by weighing all evidence in their own minds.  You cannot entirely trust the academy either.  Does anybody, really, anyway, say while in school?
   
   For me the right wing has always shown themselves for what they are, to be blunt....
   
   All ok, nick--you're funny--and we all wanna make some $$, too.

   replyreport
4. 0

   sandra rinckposted 15 years ago

   I, for one, do believe that Global Warming is real however, I am skeptical about the causes via natural to nature, a pattern of the way the mother nature conducts herself and we just happen to be living during this time, which sucks of course; or did we really accelerate the process because of our over use of the resources we have at our "disposal". 
   
   Either way, I do think that steps should be made to at least try to reverse or slow the process down but also agree with Nick, that it is being exploited by politicians to screw over a few bucks.  Propoganda at it's finest, while ironically using up the rest of what is left and passing it off as neccessary. 
   
   In all honesty, I really do not believe it is neccessary to exploit more of the Earth to fix the Earth, it really doesn't make sense to me.  Heck, I couldn't work out a realy answer no matter how hard I tried, except for the part about politicians exploiting global warming to fill thier pockets with money and power.

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Fully agree with you all about the political bandwagon - I have little time for Al Gore.
      
      In terms of the science, it is still debatable about the effect of humanity upon Global Warming and Climate Change. As a personal opinion, I swing towards humanity having an effect, but that is far from a certainty, and open to scientific questioning. The problem is that oil companies and environmentalists both fund research to 'find' the results that they want. Genuine research is buried in a pile of BS.

      replyreport
      1. 62

         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         More, I do not think it is possible to come to a definite conclusion on the issue at all - no matter how good research you conduct. The length of available reliable temperature data is negligible compared to the Earth's age, and you never know whether it is a part of yet another temperature cycle

         replyreport
         1. 0

            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            yeah, I agree.

            replyreport
            1. 80

               Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               There is some good research, using ice-cores, showing that humanity has increased the level of carbon dioxide since the industrial revolution. As you say, it is difficult to judge whether this will have an effect, or be absorbed by natural cycles. Personally, I believe that there are many other good reasons for using alternative sources on an individual scale, without politicians and big business becoming involved. Recycling, economic cars and solar water heating all save money.

               replyreport
               1. 62

                  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL No question about that, for sure

                  replyreport
                  1. 80

                     Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     I am in serious danger of sounding like a capitalist!

                     replyreport
5. 68

   TheMoneyGuyposted 15 years ago

   To try and stop global warming and its consequence is vanity and arrogance.  It is simply how things correct the balance of the cycle.  The problem with Global warming as a Crisis is the belief that it is bad and must be stopped. 
   
   It is only bad if you need an excess of human population creating an excess of wealth via labor and consumption of an excess of food and materials that must be produced my more labor.
   
   The abolishment of work is the only solution, as it exists only to create wealth and no other purpose.  If you reduced calories used to those only required to create your own sustenance then the rabid consumption of food would be eliminated. 
   
   The entire layer of waste jobs created just to make sure work happens would be eliminated.
   
   So we all should just quit and the debate will be over.  Problem solved no more need for discussion.
   
   Please send 3 Trillion Dollars to Glenn West 29307 Shady LN.  Murrieta, CA 92563
   
   I am sure you all will find this a small sum to pay me for this solution, compared to the cost analysis of my competitors Business/Government.
   
   TMG

   replyreport
   1. 80

      Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The cheque is in the post.

      replyreport
6. 0

   Leta Sposted 15 years ago

   TMG-
   LOL, you really think outside the box!  I like it.
   
   Isn't there some middle ground here?
   
   OR!  Will you cut your payment?

   replyreport
7. 60

   allshookupposted 15 years ago

   I think the whole Global Warming is a bunch of nothing. I do think that politicians are using it for their own purposes. I saw Obama tell the coalminers that they could go ahead and mine, but that he would bankrupt them for what they put in the air (pollution). This is a bunch of crap. To me, that just says that people can do what they want, but if he doesn't like it, he'll fine you for it. He'll fine you right out of business. That is taking away a lot of jobs and money and resources from America. It's selfish and self-centered and with no care for Americans. I don't see why people support this so much. They take the words of politicians and their followers and don't see the real picture.

   replyreport
   1. 0

      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What would your suggestion be?  Let's say that global warming is a fraud, completely made up to make money and jobs etc...then we still have cancer caused by pollution and other things that these "jobs" help to create.  Then what?

      replyreport
      1. 62

         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Then pollution first kills those who produce it, and eventually natural selection runs its course - pollution producers are extinct

         replyreport
         1. 58

            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            That is what will eventually happen.

            replyreport
   2. 80

      Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Agree with you about the political bandwagon - the problem is that it blocks genuine research into the process, which is still unclear. No harm in looking at renewable energy, though - there are many benefits apart from reducing greenhouse gases. Many Mediterranean countries are looking at Solar Farms - cheaper to create than power stations, cleaner and very little maintenance required. Don't see a problem with that.

      replyreport
   3. 62

      Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Because people are scared into believing. Like in all other cases of mass believing into unreasonable things

      replyreport
      1. 80

         Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Fear - the friend of the advertising executive!

         replyreport
   4. 58

      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, but you think evolution is a lie, would happily see the Polar bears extinct, are in favor of using nukes to settle disputes and think that you are doing Jesus' work.
      
      Therefore your opinion is worthless. And certainly has no place in a scientific discussion.
      
      You have about as much understanding of climate change as my pet goldfish.

      replyreport
8. 76

   Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

   Polar bears don't lie.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      allshookupposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      They do make good bbq though!

      replyreport
9. 68

   TheMoneyGuyposted 15 years ago

   Ah, we are at the root of the problem, people want to keep debating after the problem is solved because they don't like the answer. Or think it is to simple.
   
   Now pay me my Money or I will raise the interest on your Credit cards.  I ain't falling for that check's in the Mail crap.
   
   TMG

   replyreport
10. 76

    Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

    Even if the predictions are not as ominous or dire as "they" would have us believe, isn't it just common sense? Our planet does not have unlimited resources to support an unlimited population with a voracious appetite for power (of all kinds!). Something's gotta change, and better to have us take the steps than let nature take its course.

    replyreport
    1. 62

       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       You can't command nature, it will take its course regardless, whatever this course is

       replyreport
11. 60

    allshookupposted 15 years ago

    Stop all the fining with the global warming. Let Americans work. That lowers the unemployment rate and helps with inflation. Cancer was here before they started all this talk about global warming. And it'll be here no matter how many people recycle and all that other stuff. Since the subject of the thread is about the undermining of prosperity of Americans, I am only trying to explain how I feel it's being done. It seems Americans, well most of the world I guess, listens too much to the media. They blindly believe whatever they say. They never question it. It's time people think for themselves. Just because a policitian or scientist says something, that doesn't make it true. I do feel that cigarrettes cause health problems because I have worked in a hospital and have seen the damges of them. But all this other stuff about spray cans and stuff, I just don't buy it. Don't get me wrong, I don't litter, I don't go around trying to make the earth a dirty germy place. But, I don't recycle either. People don't like plastic bottles because they supposedly last forever in a landfill. Back when I was little, we had a metal drum we bruned out garbage in. We didn't take stuff to land fills. We burned it and took care of our garbage. Now there's all these laws about not doing that, then they complain because they have our garbage and how it's the wrong kind. If they don't want to deal with it, let us burn it again. (Although mamy here still do just that) I don't like plastic bottles because Pepsi don't taste as good as it does in a glass bottle. Totally different taste. So, we agree on not liking plastic bottles. Just for different reasons. I don't like the flimsy plastic bags we use now. They break and my stuff falls out of them. Give me back paper. But then, we'd have to cut down a tree. Oh me! There's no way to win with this thing they have created. I just don't buy any of it. It all boils down to money.  And the taking of ours. Many people had cancer wayyy before there were spray deodorant bottles and all that other modern stuff. It's all political. And people blindly believe it.

    replyreport
    1. 68

       TheMoneyGuyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I would call the belief in work blindly believing everything they say.
       
       TMG

       replyreport
    2. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Or blindly argue against it.
       
       You have no idea what you are talking about. Sooner or later, you will run out of places to dump your trash. It is all very well shipping it off to Africa or dumping it in the sea, but eventually the planet will become so polluted we all die.
       
       If you do not recycle, where do you think your trash goes?
       
       Just because you do not throw it out of your car window, it is still litter.

       replyreport
    3. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Don't understand the connection you make between global warming, spray bottles and cancer.
       
       Mind you, we could feed the polar bears with politicians and kill two birds with one stone. That's environmentalism.

       replyreport
12. 58

    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    And as this is supposed to be a science forum, here is some science and facts on the subject:
    
    The difference between climate and weather -
    
    http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/kids/c … ather.html
    
    Nice and simple so those who did not go to school can understand it
    
    Lake Chad is dying -
    
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4906692.stm
    
    Proof that global warming is happening -
    
    http://www.mng.org.uk/gh/threat/threat6.htm
    
    Odd that many right-wing christian zealots hold the view that global warming is a lie

    replyreport
    1. 62

       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Now I know who I am

       replyreport
       1. 58

          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          All right wing christian zealots hold that global warming is a myth.
          
          All who hold that global warming is a myth are not necessarily right-wing christian zealots.
          
          Now do some research on why Mink farming is in trouble in your home country.......

          replyreport
13. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Hmmm, Mr. Knowles is not who I thought he was!  Interesting.

    replyreport
    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Who did you think he was?

       replyreport
14. 68

    TheMoneyGuyposted 15 years ago

    So why do I work,
    
    Since I got onto the working is evil Jag I had to examine myself.
    
    Here it is, I work because I have the capacity to solve complex problems that most humans cannot, I do this very easily.
    
    This allows me to collect some paper that other humans value and they build my plantation for me in Mexico, which I find to be very difficult and unpleasant work (for surprisingly very little of said paper).  I assure everyone here that as soon as they are done I will stop working an end my contribution to this madness.
    
    Yes I have installed a solar water heater, no i do not have electricity there, and I have no plans to ever have it as I find I don't really need it.  I do burn some gas in a generator to power a pump to irrigate my coconut trees, so I can trade the coconuts for small amounts of the paper stuff the government of Mexico values, and charges me for the privilige of owning property in their country.
    
    No where is my Money!!!!
    
    TMG

    replyreport
15. 60

    allshookupposted 15 years ago

    Sufidreamer,
    I was just telling some of the things that I've heard that is 'bad' for us. It seems nowdays that there's nothing that you can do that's not bad for your or the enviornment. I just feel all of this is going against helping Americans. It's a way to take away our money and jobs. Makes whoever is elected in control. Which is not right. I think it's a good thing to study other resources to help us, other energy. I am just not buying that coalmining should be fined and bankrupted.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I smoke cigarettes, so I am far from perfect! The problem is now that it is not just about helping Americans, but the whole world. Whether we believe in global warming or not, we can at least make the planet a little cleaner. Here in Greece, they have a bad habit of throwing rubbish everywhere, ruining some beautiful places with plastic bags and filth.
       
       Can't comment on the coal-miners situation - I don't read enough US news to know whether Obama is going to be good or bad!

       replyreport
16. 62

    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    "Mink farming is an environment-friendly activity"
    
    "Mink farming is cruel and must end now"
    
    *all confused*
    
    
    

    replyreport
    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28157667/
       
       Mild winters are not good for the fur industry.....

       replyreport
       1. 62

          Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Aaaa, you are about unusually warm weather in Moscow! Mind you, it is more than compensated for by unusually cold weather in DC

          replyreport
          1. 58

             Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Justice ?

             replyreport
             1. 80

                Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                A cunning plot, hatched by Russian boffins, to destabilize the US economy by sending their cold weather to DC. Very devious.

                replyreport
                1. 62

                   Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I hate to admit I sometimes feel myself as a part of this plot - Moscow became much warmer and DC much colder since I moved from there to here

                   replyreport
                   1. 0

                      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Climate shift, weather patterns gone haywire.  Stay right were you are Ice Nazi!!!  And whatever you do, do not come to sunny San Diego because all I have are some flip flops. 

                      replyreport
                      1. 62

                         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         And I was dreaming of fishing for lobsters with you! I shouldn't have mentioned my role in this, silly me

                         replyreport
                   2. 80

                      Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Better be careful what you say, or the goons will be at the door! A threat to National Security or something.

                      replyreport
             2. 0

                sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                LMAO! 

                replyreport
             3. 62

                Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                To those not believers over here? You should know better

                replyreport
17. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    TMG-
    
    Are you for real on that spread in Mexico?  I somehow don't put it past you.
    
    A lot of people work because they don't question anything, and that is there way of being useful.  I think you'd be surprised how many that is.  They also believe everything told them.... Those would be the ants.
    
    Some have figured it out already and either are interested in achieving a certain amount of security, given the world as it is, or if they perhaps are really lacking something in their soul, power and and a huge accumulation, so they are assured of their status in controlling ants.
    
    Ultimately, I don't think the whole thing is about work per se (culture--ie, art because a person 'wants' or feels they must do it--is 'work' of a sort, too).  How about meaningless mindless work towards building huge ant hills?

    replyreport
    1. 68

       TheMoneyGuyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Very For Real, I will be down there on the 23rd, and stay until after the new year, so no christmas lights for me, but I will have a great time as all the families gather round and my Suegro plays santa and the kids (Including me) will try to break the Pinata!!!!!
       
       I have had my designs on retiring there for several years now, I grew up in a very rural place, but the California Refugee's have been moving there a lot lately, so I decided on Mexico, as the news keeps most people to scared to move there.
       
       TMG

       replyreport
18. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Sufi-
    Are you Greek or English?....expat American (maybe?)

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       English, but fell in love with this beautiful country!

       replyreport
19. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Sufi--
    It's always all about us, isn't it?!
    
    And--
    Destabilize the fur away.  This is another 'industry,' like the diamond market that is SO last century.   Useless bauble junk!  I think like TMG on this stuff. 
    
    Gimme land (though Mexico is not my choice), baby!

    replyreport
    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       The diamond market is soo this century - if you have the right diamond. This diamond sold for a record price this week. 
       
       

       replyreport
    2. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Nice way of thinking, Lita - TMG has the right idea.
       
       We have a few olive trees, some orange trees and people pay me money to read books and write. Life is good!
       
       I hope that you manage to find your little corner of peace, away from the insanity of modern life. Life is too confusing nowadays.

       replyreport
20. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Yah, MK--I know it still does well.  We even count a diamond dealer among the acquaintances here...  But I'd never buy or deal.  Not real ethical, in my book, especially its past history--though maybe stuff coming from Canada--and I want no part of it.
    
    Also, its like, me caveman, ooooh the pretty rock, ooooh, the soft fur!
    
    Real wealth is always gonna be land and improvements--like TMG mentioned on another hub--and I believe.  And I daresay, you'd probably agree on that point....

    replyreport
    1. 58

       Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Land - yes, and for the next ten years, if it will feed you, absolutely.
       
       Improvements - that depends. A lot of people lost a lot of money on those recently and will do so for the next few years.....
       
       Nothing ethical about diamond mining. Not even a little bit. As you say, it is a market. Kept artificially high by artificially reducing supply. This was a special one though. $24.3 million special

       replyreport
21. 76

    Mighty Momposted 15 years ago

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 … 375125.htm If anyone's still interested in the original "Is global warming a political witch or a scientific witch?" argument, here's an interesting read. I can just picture this group of scientists getting together in a room and saying, "How can we undermine the prosperity of Americans? I know! Let's tax their carbon emissions! Yeah! That'll teach 'em good!!"
    
    Again, what's the worst that could happen if the predictions do turn out to be like Y2K (which I don't believe they will -- I am a believer that the earth is getting warmer and that's a bad thing)? We'll all have a cheaper way to power our homes and our cars and cleaner air to breathe and the polar bears will still have icebergs to live on. Is that so bad?

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Brilliant!

       replyreport
22. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    Thank you, Sufi--
    
    We are working on it!

    replyreport
23. 0

    sandra rinckposted 15 years ago

    Could you imagine what would happen if there was a world wide protest againts working? 
    
    That would be something. 
    
    Halt everything for just one day, no power, no gas, no driving, no operations, no working.
    
    Pretty sure the result would be a mass riot.  Boy does that suck.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       We are one step ahead in Greece

       replyreport
       1. 0

          sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          well clue me in bub!    If you got a plan I want to hear it.

          replyreport
          1. 80

             Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Have a general strike and if the politicians do not listen, have a riot.
             
             http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de … eece-riots

             replyreport
             1. 0

                sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                holy moly, not into rioting. 

                replyreport
                1. 80

                   Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Same here, but the corrupt politicians pushed people too far!
                   
                   Luckily, it does not affect us up here in the mountains - we spend our lives following the Ancient Greek art-forms of arguing, drinking too much wine and dodging tax!

                   replyreport
                   1. 0

                      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      lol, sounds dope! 

                      replyreport
24. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    MK-
    Yes, I've seen the bubble housing market here in AZ.  My partner is in the business...  Really unbelievable on the coasts.  That's why I concentrate on what/where I know best--the Midwest.  Still slow steady growth.
    
    
    BTW--There was a book published a few years back--  The End of Work, basically saying if we want to survive, we have to end work as we know it in the west w/ a 40 hr. work week....  Yeah, what're you doing there in Greece?

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Sort of - I still work very long hours, but I love my work and it is my choice. There is always time to party, drink and enjoy the company of friends! I did the retail management thing in the UK and hated it - there was no joy in life, just toil, slavery and the ritual stripping away of my self-dignity.
       
       What are your plans for escaping the daily grind?

       replyreport
25. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    I just accepted a job as a copywriter for a resort place here.  Pays well.  And I save money pretty well.  I've invested in land, which has accrued value....  I plan to buy a couple inexpensive small places--one in a small city--one on the coast, and then tune my life towards my own writing and art. 
    
    Would love to travel, tho, too.  I can now, but they are always short trips around the grind.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Wonderful - following the heart instead of the head always pays in the end. Good luck with that - the first few months here were touch and go, but now we are through to the other side.

       replyreport
26. 0

    Leta Sposted 15 years ago

    I don't know how people live not following their dreams!  Thanks.

    replyreport
    1. 80

       Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Through following the false dreams of others - must have a big TV, nice car etc.
       
       Anyway, must head off - way past midnight here.
       
       Thank you, too.
       
       Have a nice evening

       replyreport
27. 60

    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    The problem with global warming:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news … rrent.html
    This has been shown to already have happened some thousands of years ago through the use of ice core samples.

    replyreport