Should islamics have an open house in mecca?

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   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

   Good muslims commited to breaking steriotypes should open up mecca for Christian and Jewish tourists to show they want to be part of the world community. This would help develop trust between all religions and promote peace in the middle east. Watcha-think?

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its a good point and yes if it does happen it will help creating tolerance between religions immensely.

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      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think it would be for the best if they did. But not during the Hajj, simply because there is already a dangerous number of pilgrims in Mecca at that time. Each year, people are crushed, suffocated or killed by heatstroke and exhaustion despite best efforts at crowd control.
      
      Even a few 'open days' would be a useful gesture.

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         Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'd have to agree.  I suppose Hajj wouldn't be a good time to go though.  Unless it was a study group.  Isn't Hajj where they walk around that thing and throw stones at it which represents throwing stones at the devil?  I think that is fascinating.  Not to the point of wanting to become a Muslim, just interested.

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            Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes that's the one. And as it is one of the pillars of the faith that each Muslim should attend at least once in a lifetime, it's not hard to see why it's standing room only!

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      twalker74posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Many places of Islamic worship are open to the public and invite visitors all the time. Why is it necessary for outsiders to see Mecca? This is just a result of not understanding faith. If the religion interests you, go to a local Mosque. Just because a person wants to know something about it, doesn’t give him or her a right to go to the center. Just because the West openly invites anyone to see inside our buildings, and any sort of infrastructure, doesn’t mean the rest of the world needs to follow along. We (in the West) are taught that everything is equal and has rights and that everyone should be the same way. Yet, isn’t that a sense of rule? If some one wants to keep something to his or herself, that person is berated for being closed off and hiding something (in a negative fashion). Though I abdicate democracy and its values, it is easy for me to see why countries that do not adhere to this value system get constantly pissed at us. By saying that they are wrong for not following our rules, aren’t we forcing our freedoms on people? If that isn’t an oxymoron… And to claim that we (Western Europe and the US) are an absolute truth in our assumptions is so ludicrous that I do not feel the need to provide examples. It is so backhanded and filled with double-talk that it is no wonder that the Middle East has no respect. Do they suppress the masses? Yes. Do they inhibit free press? Yes. But nowhere in there actions do they claim to be contrary. They claim to act justified, but we confuse this with our own justifications. If the “truly” open minded Left meant what is said, they would openly stand in opposition and battle this (which many groups do). And though this would not promote peace, nor would it suddenly make them love us, the Middle East would respect us. I have no problem with their system at the moment, because their main gripe (for a lack of a better term) do they claim anything other than our meddling in their business. I feel a lot of the problems do come from our need to be involved. So if we choose to elect people that want to meddle, then we have to be ready for a fight. Or at the least, a lot of angry people.
      
      We (as non-Muslims) have no right to go to Mecca unless invited. We are not invited. And just because the Pope lets outsiders into the Vatican, doesn’t mean that everyone else should. I don’t see anyone protesting against any Buddhist monasteries that do not allow visitors. But since we feel it is threat, we feel need to be there? ridiculous.

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         TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That statement discounts alot of other reasons Islam does not like us. Their gripe with us has been around alot longer than the foriegn policies of America.
         
         This is not meant as an insult, but that is just too simplistic of a way to sum up the disagreements between the West and Islam.

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         buraqposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well said twalker, i liked your view.

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      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, besides, they are living in this world, and not in isolation....We surely can have cooperation inspite of cultural differences..

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      tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think I'll file that under 'Super Likely'!

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Per order of Allah and their prophet, that is unacceptable to all Muslims. The Arabian Penninsula is for Islam alone. No other religions, nor non-believers are allowed. Not even Arabs who do not follow Islam are allowed.
      
      Only the, "Umma", the, "community of believers", are allowed to step foot in Arabia, the Holy city of Mecca is definitly off limits to any non-muslims.
      
      And to any Muslim who wishes to change the words of Allah and Mohhammud. Here is the reply to that action, straight from the mouth of Mohhammud himself.
      
      Sahih Bukarri, A'Hadith, Volume 9, Book 88, Number 173:
      Narrated 'Abdullah:
      
      The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar) and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced new things into the religion after you.'"
      
      Volume 9, Book 88, Number 174:
      Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd:
      
      I heard the Prophet saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that. There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and then a barrier will be set up between me and them." Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri added that the Prophet further said: "I will say those people are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed (the religion) after me! "
      
      And there is much more in the Hadith and Qu'ran in regards to changing any laws within the Qu'ran. And the Qu'ran is a Socio-Politcal-Religion. It covers all ways and actions of ones life.
      
      So the answer is NO. It cannot be done and if it is, it is not in line with the words of Allah and Mohhammud. And therefore, is un-Islamic, or Haram, = "unlawful".

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      awareposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i aint going that far .but i feel this god ideas are under attack by religious misrepresentation across the board .it is imperative i think that religions play the lead role in eradicating extremists and zealots within their faiths.by disowning them or banishing them. its their way of thinking that is being tarnished.

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      Paul Wingertposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Keep in mind that the Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Muslims, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians and Old Prussians are still pissed off over the 9 separate rape, rope, and pillage along with the mass slaughter that occurred during the 9 Crusades that took place between 1095 and 1291. But I agree, there needs to be something done to promote the peace between the cultures. Fanatical groups, both Christian and Islamic, aren't helping any.

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   sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

   C'mon don't be PC your whole life!

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I would think absolutely except some one would Cary a bomb in there and blow the place up. Who knows

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   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   If you're not muslim you're not allowed in. Their rules, not mine.

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   Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago

   Yes, and they should serve hors dourves

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   Paragliderposted 14 years ago

   @twalker - I don't think anyone's suggesting asking Saudi to open the gates. I saw the OP as hypothetical. Of course they have the right to do as they wish. However, if they chose to allow a few more visitors, e.g. study groups, it might be no bad thing. Personally, I wouldn't go, having spent enough time in Saudi already.

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      twalker74posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I may naturally write in too aggressive a tone, because I agree that if they do invite others in to study, dictate and explain the events, it would promote a better world. I just feel that the western culture is, by its nature, intrusive and hypocritical. We enjoy a lot aspect in life others don't. What happens is that we think that everyone must share in this "happiness" (another natural reaction). Yet, it contradicts itself when we do not allow others come that conclusion on their own. Most Americans do not realize, or at least cannot connect, the idea that even our freedoms are quite different from Europe. But we just have our little quabbles since we generally feel the same. When we intract with drastically different cultures, that is when it actually can get out of hand. Imposing freedoms are the same as imposing values. The west and the Middle East do not share those values. Though I understand it a hypothetical, the poster did state that political correctness be left out.

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   Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

   Good question, Sneako and a tough one to answer - it would certainly help to foster understanding between the cultures. Personally, whilst I am no fan of the Saudi rulers, I would love to visit.
   
   We have a similar situation in Greece, with Mount Athos, a peninsula packed with monasteries. No women are allowed, and the number of non-Orthodox men allowed to visit is very restricted. It is not important what anyone's opinion is on the matter - it is regarded as a semi-autonomous country and they get to set their own rules.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   Then maybe Mormons could allow anyone into their churches. And then, maybe we should get Scientology to open up their doors too...

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      Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And then maybe the Catholics can open up their secret vaults and be open about their financial investments. Then - finally - peace.
      
      Although - let's be honest here. The OP was more interested in stirring up trouble than genuinely thinking that allowing heathens to visit Mecca would foster peace in the Middle East.

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         Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I have no doubt

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            tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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         mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I believe the question  was an honest and noble question and was not meant to start any trouble.

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            Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "You believe.?"
            
            I suggest you read some of the OPs hubs and other forum posts before making such a statement.
            
            This is the problem with blindly believing without doing any thinking or making any effort.

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               mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               My work is ranked in top 10 Philosophy religious books, if you believe that happens without any thought and with blind belief you are very mistaken.

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                  Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  And once again you are arguing and shouting about how clever you are without even considering listening to the advice that was given to you because you already have all the answers and are too blinded by the massive ball of fire that is your ego to be able to tell the difference between a genuine question and a question written to provoke conflict.

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                     mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Who are you to give me advice? What are your qualifications regarding spirituality and religious philosophy?

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                        Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I was not aware there were any qualifications available other than to say "I am enlightened"
                        
                        You really are silly though. I was talking about the intentions behind the original question and suggested that you read some of the questioner's other forum posts and hubs before coming to the ridiculous conclusion that you came to.
                        
                        Tell me how well your book ranks against the bible again. That should impress me with how much careful consideration you do before making a statement.
                        
                        Although I see you now think jesus is coming back to slay the heathen (you), destroy the unbelievers (me) and raise up the faithful (christian religionists who start fights with muslim religionists) to heaven.

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                           mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           To start with Stop speaking crap on my behalf please.
                           You have too much foolish ego to appreciate truth as of now.

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                              Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              You are too blinded by your ego to understand anything.
                              
                              Go ahead and keep agreeing with the christians - you do not even understand what they are saying to you. All you hear is "god" and do not understand what that means to the christians.
                              
                              You have no truth and my pet goldfish is more enlightened than you.
                              
                              Tell them that your book outranks the bible for "knowledge and truth" LOL I am sure they will lap that up.

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                                 mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 This is an American library which has ranked my work, I am very sure there are Christians involved with it.
                                 I have mentioned earlier on that Christian priests have requested me if they can use my words in their sermons.
                                 
                                 You find my work and rankings funny ?
                                 Thats your loss if you cannot understand.
                                 
                                 I understand the prophets better than anyone else irrespective whether the person is a Hindu, Christian or Muslim and I have nothing against any religion or prophet.

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                                    Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    No - what I find funny is your ability to make every conversation you are involved in about you and your "rankings."
                                    
                                    Plus your inability to see through ti the intentions behind words. Not the attributes one would expect from an enlightened prophet.

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                                       mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Well you are unable to debate intelligently and so you keep resorting to foolish remarks ,thats all.
                                       
                                       Earlier on while debating you replied that what I wrote was non sense .When I asked you to point out what was non sense, you were unable to so you retorted to your usual remarks of how I was being condescending towards you.
                                       Lets just debate if that is possible.
                                       
                                       You dont now what enlightenment is, I can teach you but you need to have an open mind.

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                           TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Well. Whats the difference?
                           
                           In Islamic Eschatology: Jesus comes back to earth, meeting the islamic Armies of the Mahdi outside Jerusalem. He will be offered to lead the prayers before they attack the city. At that point the islamic Jesus will defer to the Mahdi, because Christ recognizes the mahdi is supposedly a higher messenger of God than he. (I dont believe this. Islam does.)
                           
                           After leading the Army in prayer they, Islam's armies, will invade Jurusalem and, I quote, "Shatter the crosses and slaughter the Swine". In other words destroy all the Christians and Jews.
                           
                           That is the way it is in the A'Hadith. Which is where one would find the Eschatology of Islam. The Qu'ran does not speak on the subject in any extensive or definite way, or with any oppossing logic to that set forth by Mohhammud in the A'Hadith.
                           
                           Just a note.

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                              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I didn't write whats quoted above, from where have you got this? 

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                                 TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Above.
                                 
                                 Somewhere?
                                 
                                 In one of the many posts here.
                                 
                                 My reply is in regards to the statement. More than the one who stated it. Anyways. But if you didn't say it. I believe you. No biggie, Mohitmisra.

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      sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Mormon churches are open, the mormon temples are open to the public to view prior to it becomeing operational. I don't know about scientology.

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   Niteriterposted 14 years ago

   Evolution Guy, you are in no danger of allowing your humility to override your propensity for debate! We can always count on you for a good old-fashioned fire and brimstone comeback!

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   In Islamic Eschatology: Jesus comes back to earth, meeting the islamic Armies of the Mahdi outside Jerusalem. He will be offered to lead the prayers before they attack the city. At that point the islamic Jesus will defer to the Mahdi, because Christ recognizes the mahdi is supposedly a higher messenger of God than he. (I dont believe this. Islam does.)
   
   TMMASON ...
   After leading the Army in prayer they, Islam's armies, will invade Jurusalem and, I quote, "Shatter the crosses and slaughter the Swine". In other words destroy all the Christians and Jews.
   
   That is the way it is in the A'Hadith. Which is where one would find the Eschatology of Islam. The Qu'ran does not speak on the subject in any extensive or definite way, or with any oppossing logic to that set forth by Mohhammud in the A'Hadith.
   
   Just a note.
   
   I didn't write whats quoted above, from where have you got this? 
   
   This makes sense to me.
   Christian ARMAGEDON  =  Islams GEHAD
                "      vs     "     "
        Religiosity    vs     " extremists
     And all that we can do is wait and watch ??
     We can't go anything until the players are identified.
     Here is a hint... Rev 13

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      TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You should read Joel Richardson, "Islam's Awaited Messiah", if you want a good juxtoposition of Islamic Eschatology -Vs- Christian. He will show you the players alright.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              I did check out the home page that Joel Richards "I A M"
         Though I didn't download the report the introduction tells me that it will not disagree with the overall premise of my own research of the KJV of the bible; after ten years of un interpreting my brain of preconceived ideas that Religiosity had planted into my belief system from my youth.
         
         End time prophesy is not that hard to figure out when we understand the timeline and identify the key players.

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    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    This makes sense to me.
    Christian ARMAGEDON  =  Islams GEHAD
                  "      vs     "     "
          Religiosity    vs     " extremists
      And all that we can do is wait and watch ??
      We can't go anything until the players are identified.
      Here is a hint... Rev 13 u should read Joel Richardsaon if
    
    TManson said  .. you want a good juxtoposition of Islamic Eschatology Vs Christian. He will show you the players alright
    
      Jerami said .. I'm expecting something in Vatican City first.

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       TMMasonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       really? Vatican City eh? If so, interesting.
       
       If not?... take your meds.
       
       But you do have some interesting hubs Jerami.

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    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    Oh I have one.
    
    American president, Muslim + N.A.Z.I. Pope = (?)
    
    Anyone?.....
    
    ?.....
    
    ?.......
    
    How bout: One retardly ass backwards world.

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    TMMasonposted 14 years ago

    I agree, on all points.

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       Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I guess that I am no diffrent from everyone else,
       I believe this concept to be correct. And if it is,  It will be hapening very soon and we are watching for a few signs to come about that will not happen.(on the Christian side anyway)

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    de'Arabposted 14 years ago

    this suggestion is interesting but not very likely to happen

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