American Health Care Debate
Andrew, thats the problem with Obama's plan...it's not free.
We would still pay for insurance. It's not a universal plan like in Europe.
17 million Americans still won't have medical coverage with Obama's plan.
If Obama wanted to make it universal and raise our taxes to get it, I'm all for it. But that's not the plan.
Obama's plan and what you guys have in Europe are no where near the same.
We would still have to make monthly payments for insurance. If you are one of the 17 million without insurance, then you don't get medical coverage.L. Andrew Marr wrote:
I know I don't know the ins or outs of the American debate - I just have a problem with people generalising and saying that state hospitals don't work. Generally, in the whole scale of things, they do.
You guys have free coverage which is great! But Americans don't today and won't with Obama's plan. It is supposed to be cheaper with Obama's plan. We'll see.
L. Andrew Marr wrote:
Then I suppose the thing to do is go in and see if it works. If it doesn't then protest. (y)
But it's going to cost almost $900 billion dollars to "see if it works."
The U.S. doesn't have that kind of money since we've spent so much on other things. China has been borrowing us trillions of dollars over the last year or two.
See the problem? Obama wants another $900 billion to pay for this when most of us know it isn't going to work. It's an expensive "experiment."And Obama has promised not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. None of it makes sense.
$900 billion is a ton of money but no new taxes. Hmmmm....
85- A Texan
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L. Andrew Marr wrote:
Ok, I have no issue with people saying that they don't think America should have a free health care system. However, I have a problem with people saying public health care systems don't work.
Below is a list of the top 20 countries based on their rank by the World Health Organisation. Beside them I have posted whether the country has free health care or not. The ones which aren't have nothing beside them:
1 France (Free)
2 Italy (Free)
3 San Marino (Free)
4 Andorra (Free)
5 Malta (Free)
6 Singapore (Free)
7 Spain (Free)
8 Oman (Partially Free)
9 Austria (Free)
10 Japan (Free)
11 Norway (Free)
12 Portugal (Free)
13 Monaco
14 Greece (Free)
15 Iceland (Free)
16 Luxembourg (Free)
17 Netherlands (Free)
18 United Kingdom (Free)
19 Ireland (Free)
20 Switzerland (Free)
Notice a pattern?None of these Countries have FREE health care! Free health care does not exist!
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Just a correction: Paying higher taxes to get government provided healthcare = not free. You ARE paying for it. I don't think any of those countries you listed have *free* healthcare.
This is the problem with the debate in the US, is too many people think it is going to be free. Either you pay for care as needed, and get insurance for the big stuff, or you agree to pay much higher taxes to fund a plan (the proposed plan doesn't even claim to cover everyone).
No having the cake and eating to.
Employer-based coverage and the thinking that we need first-dollar coverage is the reason this is so complicated and why it's not likely to be easily fixed, no matter what gets passed.
I don't buy insurance for my car to put gas in it or for flat tire repair, it is for the big accidents. Heath insurance, in my opinion, should be the same.
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TimTurner wrote:
And Obama has promised not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. None of it makes sense.
$900 billion is a ton of money but no new taxes. Hmmmm....He'll probably raise them for the upper class...
Either way this post is ridiculous. No health care is free.Pr0metheus wrote:
TimTurner wrote:
And Obama has promised not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. None of it makes sense.
$900 billion is a ton of money but no new taxes. Hmmmm....He'll probably raise them for the upper class...
Either way this post is ridiculous. No health care is free.Well, taxes are looked upon differently in Europe. I lived in Germany for 3 years and they are taxed like crazy but no one ever complains because of the things they get out of it that seem "free."
In Germany, there are no TV commercials because everyone pays a flat monthly tax to pay for the stations. You can't option out of the tax. Everyone just pays it and everyone has "free", commercial-free TV.
No one complains.
You could never do that in the U.S.- 91
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TimTurner wrote:
Pr0metheus wrote:
TimTurner wrote:
And Obama has promised not to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. None of it makes sense.
$900 billion is a ton of money but no new taxes. Hmmmm....He'll probably raise them for the upper class...
Either way this post is ridiculous. No health care is free.Well, taxes are looked upon differently in Europe. I lived in Germany for 3 years and they are taxed like crazy but no one ever complains because of the things they get out of it that seem "free."
In Germany, there are no TV commercials because everyone pays a flat monthly fee to pay for the cable. You can't option out of the fee. Everyone just pays it and everyone has "free", commercial-free TV.
No one complains.
You could never do that in the U.S.Why would you even want to?
92- ledefensetech
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Jeffrey Neal wrote:
Just a correction: Paying higher taxes to get government provided healthcare = not free. You ARE paying for it. I don't think any of those countries you listed have *free* healthcare.
This is the problem with the debate in the US, is too many people think it is going to be free. Either you pay for care as needed, and get insurance for the big stuff, or you agree to pay much higher taxes to fund a plan (the proposed plan doesn't even claim to cover everyone).
No having the cake and eating to.
Employer-based coverage and the thinking that we need first-dollar coverage is the reason this is so complicated and why it's not likely to be easily fixed, no matter what gets passed.
I don't buy insurance for my car to put gas in it or for flat tire repair, it is for the big accidents. Heath insurance, in my opinion, should be the same.Thank you, someone else who gets it. It's about supply and demand. There are way too many barriers to entry as concerns the health field in this country. From limiting the number of doctors who can practice to giving drug companies monopolies, healthcare providers get a sweetheart deal from federal and state governments. Before we continue to screw things up even more, we might want to consider getting rid of most of the red tape first.
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TimTurner wrote:
Well, taxes are looked upon differently in Europe. I lived in Germany for 3 years and they are taxed like crazy but no one ever complains because of the things they get out of it that seem "free."
In Germany, there are no TV commercials because everyone pays a flat monthly tax to pay for the stations. You can't option out of the tax. Everyone just pays it and everyone has "free", commercial-free TV.
No one complains.
You could never do that in the U.S.Just because the Germans have been duped into believing you can get something for "free" that doesn't mean we have to get taken in by the same nonsense. Oh, by the way, when was the last time you saw a German syndicated show playing on stations around the world? When was the last time you saw American syndicated shows playing on stations around the world? I wonder why there is a difference?
ledefensetech wrote:
TimTurner wrote:
Well, taxes are looked upon differently in Europe. I lived in Germany for 3 years and they are taxed like crazy but no one ever complains because of the things they get out of it that seem "free."
In Germany, there are no TV commercials because everyone pays a flat monthly tax to pay for the stations. You can't option out of the tax. Everyone just pays it and everyone has "free", commercial-free TV.
No one complains.
You could never do that in the U.S.Just because the Germans have been duped into believing you can get something for "free" that doesn't mean we have to get taken in by the same nonsense. Oh, by the way, when was the last time you saw a German syndicated show playing on stations around the world? When was the last time you saw American syndicated shows playing on stations around the world? I wonder why there is a difference?
Whoa Whoa Whoa....I was explaining why the original poster (Andrew, who's English) was using the term "free."
Europeans are taxed and everything is included so it seems like it's "free" to them.
That was my point!- 86
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Jeffrey Neal wrote:
TimTurner wrote:
Pr0metheus wrote:
He'll probably raise them for the upper class...
Either way this post is ridiculous. No health care is free.Well, taxes are looked upon differently in Europe. I lived in Germany for 3 years and they are taxed like crazy but no one ever complains because of the things they get out of it that seem "free."
In Germany, there are no TV commercials because everyone pays a flat monthly fee to pay for the cable. You can't option out of the fee. Everyone just pays it and everyone has "free", commercial-free TV.
No one complains.
You could never do that in the U.S.Why would you even want to?
Seriously.... Commercials give me pee breaks, and when I don't want to watch them I've got TiVo.
Nothing worth having in life is free, but we can attempt to minimize the costs. - 92
- ledefensetech
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TimTurner wrote:
Whoa Whoa Whoa....I was explaining why the original poster (Andrew, who's English) was using the term "free."
Europeans are taxed and everything is included so it seems like it's "free" to them.
That was my point!That wasn't necessarily an attack against you. I just wanted to illustrate the difference in quality you get when you have something that is subsidized or run by the government versus those run by the free market.
Occasionally, the commercials are better than the show!
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habee wrote:
Occasionally, the commercials are better than the show!
During the Superbowl maybe.
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Gotta love the Aflac commercials.
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ledefensetech wrote:
Just because the Germans have been duped into believing you can get something for "free" that doesn't mean we have to get taken in by the same nonsense. Oh, by the way, when was the last time you saw a German syndicated show playing on stations around the world? When was the last time you saw American syndicated shows playing on stations around the world? I wonder why there is a difference?Because it's in German?
Actually, we do get some here, with subtitles.
Maybe the BBC is a better example - plenty of syndicated shows.
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Sufidreamer wrote:
Because it's in German?
Actually, we do get some here, with subtitles.
Maybe the BBC is a better example - plenty of syndicated shows.Sure, but I think the BBC is somewhat influenced by the free market. I'll have to look into it more, I suppose.
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ledefensetech wrote:
Sufidreamer wrote:
Because it's in German?
Actually, we do get some here, with subtitles.
Maybe the BBC is a better example - plenty of syndicated shows.Sure, but I think the BBC is somewhat influenced by the free market. I'll have to look into it more, I suppose.
Paid for by license fees.
I think that some of the problem is that English speakers are not very keen on subtitles or dubbing. Greeks are brought up with it, so it comes naturally to them - with a few notable exceptions, Greek TV is pretty dire anyway
