Why are non-citizens allowed free health care?

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   moneyfairyposted 11 years ago

   I am wondering why non-citizens(mainly mexicans) are allowed to come over here and have their babies for free in our hospitals??? And me a tax paying citizen with no health insurance has to pay $180 at a clinic just to get a prescription for penicylin for a cold or flu. Thank goodness I have been healthy, God-forbid if I ever get really sick .
   Thankfully we still have planned parenthood for mamograms and other female issues but it just really makes me angry that a non-citizen can get free health care and i can't? Why won't hospitals call the INS on them and escort them back to thier country or make them pay like the rest of us???

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      Stacie Lposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Compassion is a good indication of a civilized society, but maybe the hospitals and doctors should be able to send medical bills to the Mexican government if they discover that the patient is still a legal citizen of that country. Perhaps, then Mexico will work with the US to help their people; or at least reinburse the hospitals. I know it's along shot.

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         Drive By Quipperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Good luck with that.

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         moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Stacie,
         Back in the 80's I had a german friend come and visit and he broke his wrist and he had to pay at the hospital and he was a non-citizen, why do they treat mexicans any different than other non-citizens?? It just doesn't seem fair. If I were injured or in an accident I wouldn't get free health care so why should they??? That is not compassionate towards a tax paying citizen it's just wrong.

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            Dustin Staplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sure you've implied it, but do you actually think that physicians are basing discrepancies off race?
            The fact that you decided to mix a specific race with medical rational protocol, is an archaic mindset  -- the two have nothing to do with each other. Two seperate forums on US foreign policy regarding health care and boarder patrol would've been much more appropriate.
            
            In short tho its showing compassion towards everyone, rather than just tax payers. It sounds like you would like less compassion for the rest?
            Sadly this would also mean more babies dying due to a lack of physcisian assistance, these babies don't have tax paying parents though... your right.

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               moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I'm not talking about compassion. I am talking about FREE healthcare, why some are allowed it while others are not.  I am a tax paying citizen but I am not allowed free health care if I ever were pregnant they would send me a bill till the day I died but other non-citizens are never accountable for their medical charges ever and to me that is not fair. I am not saying don't help others I am saying charge them too just as they would anyone else or give us (the ones who can't afford health insurance) Free treatment too. That's all I'm saying.

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                  DMartelonlineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Honestly you need to get your facts straight. The same "rules" that apply to anyone else (yes! You included) regarding free or reduced care apply to others.  Even the wastebin at Wikipedia knows that.
                  
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_ … ted_States

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                     moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     It states that 40 million immigrants in 2010 alone have affected the U.S. health care system and it is still growing. I didn't see anything about free health care for us the american citizen??? That's what is so infuriating immigrants are allowed free health care and we are not.  There are no more free clinic's that I know of in my neck of the woods. Maybe in N.Y. and L.A etc.. we do have planned parenthood so that's a wonderful thing for female care but for just a cold or flu etc... we have to pay at a clinic now no freebies for us.

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                        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        What you seems to be ignoring is the facts, although many people have explained them. For example, that uninsured foreigners don't get treated any differently from uninsured Americans.

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Really?  We send bill collectors over the border after them?  We ruin their credit record if they don't pay?  When did that start?

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                        Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Hi Moneyfairy.  I find your post quite interesting and can’t resist adding my two-cents.
                        
                        I would like to point out that you would be wrong to assume that the entire population of 40 million documented and undocumented immigrants relies on free healthcare. Furthermore, it would be both rational and prudent to research how many do before reaching any conclusions about the extent that they affect the healthcare system in the USA. Free healthcare is available for US citizens; you just do not know about it.
                        
                        There are about 170 facilities in 42 states and territories that are obligated to provide free or reduced care under a law that gave grants and loans to hospitals, nursing homes and other health facilities from 1946 to 1997.  These providers have delivered over $6B in uncompensated services over the last three decades. {1}
                        
                        You are wrong to think immigrants are allowed free healthcare that is not available to US citizens. You may wish to do some homework in this area. Anyone who enters a hospital ER must be treated. Those that do not pay their bill for whatever reason are all processed the same way. There is no special treatment! Those who think otherwise are grossly misinformed.
                        
                        Q.
                        {1} http://www.hrsa.gov/gethealthcare/affor … index.html

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                           moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Thank you Quillgrapher I was just quoting from the wikepedia link that someone else shared above and I know personally that a mexican neighbor of mine 3yrs. ago had birthed children here without being billed or paying anything. I also have seen no FREE health care in my state, there are clinics but if you have no insurance you are charged and exorbanatly so. So what I am saying is from personal expereince but I do need to do further research to find FREE health care in my state. Thanks for your information!!! I just want to be treated equally and fairly in my own country.

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      Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      "why non-citizens(mainly mexicans) are allowed to come over here and have their babies for free in our hospitals?"
      
      Because you live in a civilised society where a woman in labour is not refused help just because she doesn't have paper with green ink on it. Aren't you lucky!

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         Drive By Quipperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         We spell it labor here.
         
         They know the drill, and sneak across to have an American citizen and get benefits. I think the real solution is a closer relationship with mexico. They are our next door neighbors, so I can't turn them away. Mexicans are cool. They make tequila for crying out loud, and sure know how to party. Remember, they were in Texas first. The Comanches can tell you all about it.

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            Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            lol. That's what comes of having an American mom and Brit dad, and living half your life in two different places. Both used to 'correct' my spelling, so there's a 50/50 chance of me using one or the other. I'm the literary equivalent of multilingual, though I get more British when I'm on my soapbox, which is quite often!
            
            If I was in those Mexican's shoes I'd probably do the same. Can't blame them for wanting a better life. Problem is not lack of wealth.Lots of wealth in Mexico. Problem is the huge gap between the poorest and the wealthiest areas. Helping Mexico develop as an industrialised nation is probably one of the best ways of dealing with illegal immigration from that part of the world.

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         moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         NO I am not lucky because I can't afford health insurance and I live here but I don't get treated for free I get billed for everything I get treated for and they should do the same. I am not saying "don't treat them" I am saying they should pay too otherwise give me Free treatment too because I live here and pay taxes and if I can't afford insurance I am still billed. It's just not fair. Why should I have to pay and they don't that's all I'm saying. They get Free and I don't. So a non-citizen gets better treatment then a tax paying citizen and you think that is a good thing?

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   Drive By Quipperposted 11 years ago

   We call it "compassion" around here.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Would you leave a mother and baby who develop complications to die in their home, or on the street if they have no home?
   
   Emergency care for all non-nationals is the same.  And birthing is considered emergency.

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The point is if we as american citizens had an emergency we would be charged up the ying yang where as non-citizens get a free ride that's just not fair ,they should have to pay like everyone else.

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         Stacie Lposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I agree it's unfair and don't know why its permitted

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            moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you Stacie, that's what I was trying to figure out, why it is permitted and also why is the INS not called to take them back to their country after their medical procedure is done?? why are they allowed to roam free illegally?

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         livewithrichardposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Non-citizens get charged the same rate as citizens in the emergency room.  The difference is, citizens normally have a real address where the bill can be sent to.  If the bill goes unpaid, the hospital writes it off as a loss, the citizen gets a ding on his credit history, the non-citizen has more to worry about than good credit.

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            Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            You left out quite a few steps in the debt collection process, livewithrichard.
            
            Ignoring that hospital bill is about as easy to do as stopping paying your mortgage.
            You will be hounded and harassed.
            You will get letters, phone calls and threats.
            Hospitals do write off a lot of the care they provide.
            But not without aggressively pursuing those they think will pay.
            Unfortunately, those without insurance are charged "rack rate" which is orders of magnitude higher than insurance companies are charged for the same service.
            If you are lucky (and not so overwhelmed/in total shock or intimidated that you don't think to do this) you MAY be able to get them to discount their bill a little bit.
            
            Not having health insurance makes sense when you are healthy. Yes, paying as you go to see a doctor and maybe have blood tests once a year is fine.
            But catastrophe happens, even to healthy people, even to young people.
            For too many people, they are one hospitalization away from bankruptcy.
            They simply don't choose to see it that way.

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               moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you MM you are soooo very right!!! Thank goodness I am healthy otherwise I'd be dead as I can't afford health care. If I ever got a serious illness I'd be treated but the rates like you said would be so high I would litterally be paying till the day I die. Just not fair that some get off scott free while others are billed and hassled till the day they die. Not fair or just at all.

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            ptosisposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah - +++++ want free  - give false name & address - the ER is only there to make you stable and advise you to go to a doctor. There are plenty of Americans with no health insurance who do that. but don't have a real doctor.
            
            I find the Q & A racist as if we went to a country such as Germany or Canada - I sure wouldn't want to be kicked out the door to die from the cold because of some person bleeding to death is not deserving enough for help.
            
            EMT's, firemen and other services don't ask what your religion or nationally is = it's all based on need.
            
            Obviously this thread is total B.S. from the start. Why am I feeding this troll?

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               KK Trainorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Why indeed...?
               
               And EMT's don't ask about religion or nationality, but they do ask about insurance because it is entered into our system on the way to the hospital. It doesn't make a difference as far as transporting, but it matters when they get to the hospital.

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                  moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  KK Trainor: I am trying to say that non-citizens get away without paying for whatever health care they recieve in the U.S.A. but the citizens who actually have lived here their whole lives are billed till the day they die. That to me is unjust, unfair. I don't care what race ,creed or religion anyone is I think everyone should be treated equally not unfairly. Yes of course treat whatever emergency is at hand but charge them for the same as we are charged or give it to us for free too.

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               moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Ptosis: First of all I am not a troll and I am not racist. I just don't like the fact that others are allowed free health care when "We" the tax paying citizens of the U.S. are charged exorbanatley and like MM said above we are hounded till the day we die where as others are allowed to skip out scott free it is an injustice. Everyone should be charged no matter what race,creed or religion nobody should get off free. Everyone should be treated equally. I never said not to treat anyone I am just gripping that only a select few get away without paying and it is unfair.

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The degree to which they are charged or not charged depends on country.  In New Zealand they would be treated for free for any healthcare needs whilst there. Whereas I needed to pay *insanely* expensive health insurance to even travel from there to here, as I could only buy the merely "extremely" expensive insurance after I was within the country.
         
         It may not all be fair, but I don't think Americans are noticeable more in the role of screwee rather than screwer, relative to the rest the world.

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            Drive By Quipperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not for long.

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               psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I only have the capacity to describe the current situation rather than see the future.

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                  Drive By Quipperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  True that. We could do the same here if we were as easy going and cooperative with each other as the Kiwis. Of course, they don't share borders with anyone, either.

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                     psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     All I am saying it that it is not a case of America being the only national that will offer emergency care and either not bill or not aggressively pursue billing especially where the patient is poor.
                     
                     On the whole I think it is the best and most humane policy at least when it comes of life threatening conditions.
                     
                     And actually New Zealand experiences a proportionally similar load.  Many people from Pacific Islands with limited hospital services do travel to New Zealand specifically to give birth, get better care, and help their children have rights to be in the country. I can't say that it bothers me. The NZ and Island populations and statuses are not sharply separated and haven't been for some time.

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         DMartelonlineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You are flat out wrong., Every hospital offers reduced rates for those who have issues paying.  You need to contact them instead of depending on a steady diet of other people's lies to justify your position.

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   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   If this truly is a legitimate question on the unfairness of some people receiving free healthcare while others are unable to access it or afford it -- welcome to the wonderful world of ACA.
   Health disparities exist. They are real. They are both unfair and expensive.
   That is why the ACA seeks to extend health insurance to all Americans (or as many as possible without universal coverage).
   
   On the other hand, if it is intended to incite anti-immigrant fury using health care as the wedge issue, then perhaps this is a great time to refresh ourselves on the facts vs. the myths about people who are in America undocumented.
   http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … migration/

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      Drive By Quipperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The real problem with medical expense is the medical community. They are in cahoots with each other to gouge everyone and live as the "priestly caste" in our society.

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         Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That caste system is changing.
         The medical community is recognizing that they have to do things differently.
         I see some real parallels with what just happened with the GOP's loss to Obama.
         The old model is outdated and broken and unsustainable. Trying to revive it is going backward to benefit the few at the expense of the many.
         
         We cannot continue to support a medical system that rewards treating serious health conditions with surgery and long-term drug dependence. We need -- and ACA is pushing -- systemic overhaul to a model of wellness and prevention.
         Vive la revolution!

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         moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         So very true Drive by Quipper!!!
         MM: hear ,hear!! Viva la revolution!!!
         Something has to change!!!

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      MM yes my question is truley legitimate on the unfairness of a select few receiving free health care while the rest of us have to pay whether we are poor working class citizens or not it just infuriates me that we don't get the same treatment for free that others do.  I am not saying not to treat anyone in an emegency or anything else Yes treat them but don't give it away free , charge everyone equally or give it to us for free too. That's all I'm saying it's just not fair.

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   awareposted 11 years ago

   freedom. a free country . land of the free. shall i go on?

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well medical help is sure not " free " to citizens who pay taxes here and have lived here their whole lives but it is free for non citizens and it just is not fair at all. Everyone should be responsible to pay the same and not treated differently. Otherwise give it to us for free too.

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   awareposted 11 years ago

   eye sea a day coming.
   where we will have no choice but to act like a planet.of people.
   our failure to do that. will seal our fate.
   extinction is near.
   lets try not to blow it,

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes let's try not to blow it!!! Let everyone be treated equally and fairly not injustly.

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   peeplesposted 11 years ago

   Have you been to an ER lately? It's not just mexicans. Actually there are plenty of people collecting "free hospital care". Do you think they don't pay their bills? Are you implying the house of 8 mexicans with a combined 16 jobs doesn't pay their bills? Do you think hospitals don't send them bills simply because they are illegal? It sounds to me that you need to inform yourself before making such reaching statements. The majority of mexicans work very hard to pay their bills and support their family.

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I know of a mexican neighbor who had 4 children all for free. They were never charged and never paid and that was just 3 yrs. ago.  I'm not talking about mexicans that have become citizens I am talking about the ones who come to the U.S.A. specifically to get free health care because they can get away with it and have done for years. Also I know an employee that works at a phone company and the mexicans will give false names and charge up huge phone bills then move and never pay and continue to use utilities and much more and just never pay....to me that is grossly unfair but they have gotten away with it for yrs. and no one is stopping them.

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         peeplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have a neighbor who is also illegal and has 4 children in three seperate countys of this state. She was billed and paid for all of them (and complained like a typical person about the crazy high bills). I also know several other illegals personally and they pay their bills, more so than many of the legals I know. The majority of mexicans come here for the work not the free health care. This is why in most mexican families the man comes over first. To collect money and help their families. It's not a matter of taking advantage of the system like so many seem to assume. I find it sad that so many people make speculations about a group of people they know little to nothing about.
         Are there some who come here for the free health care? Of course. Just as there are some americans who take advantage of the system. The fact they are illegal makes it no worse or better. All the money lost comes from the same place, our taxes. So what's the difference between the crack head mom who sells herself, having another crack baby every year for us tax payers to pay for, that happens to be legal and the mexican who works their ass off to take care of their family who has a child on the tax  payers dime? Nothing. Though I'd rather pay for that illegal any day over that crack head who doesn't give a crap about the life she keeps creating.

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            moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well they told me that's how I know they never paid. How they got away with it I don't know but they did and continue to do so. The fact is that I am poor and can't afford insurance and the fact that a non-citizen can get it for free infuriates me. But it is allowed and there is nothing I can do about it but try and stay healthy and never have an accident or I will die trying to pay exorbanant medical bills. What a life!

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   Deltachordposted 11 years ago

   I have a friend who worked since he was 13, admittedly part time in the beginning. He worked all of his life and became illed 2 years ago and had to stop working. He is disabled and had to pay all of his hosptial bills and for medicine, without government help, until recently. He was born in the U.S.
   
   He is disabled because of Lupus and has a heart condition. But when Lupus caused him to have to stop working, he did not get immediate help. Think about that. Medicare/medicaid requirements made a citizen wait...one with serious health issues. I rest my case.

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      moneyfairyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Deltachord: I know it's  so very unfair. Something has to change. Your friend should have been able to get at least social security disability? It's just so wrong.

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   eternals3ptemberposted 11 years ago

   I don't know where you get your stuff from, but all of my Latino friends and their families will not go to the hospital if they are illegal because it isn't free, and they don't have that much cash. Also, you don't have to carry papers around to prove you are a citizen.

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