Do you understand that the true new testament church has nothing to do with a pastor or a building?
Most church members think that a "church" building and a "pastor" are what constitutes a church. While this is true in the "churches of men" it is not true in the real church of Jesus the Christ. Scripture gives a totally different understanding of the church of Christ. Do you know what scripture says about the new real testament church?
Celafoe,
Greetings, I hope you are well. Your question intrigues me. In the spirit of peace, let me begin by thanking you for calling attention to what many have identified as a disconnect between Biblical Christianity and "Churchianity". I too think it's important to have an accurate ecclesiology or understanding of the Church. Yet, it's for this very reason that I must disagree with at least part of your assertion, "... true new testament church has nothing to do with a pastor..."
One of the most beautiful and informing passages of all Scripture regarding the Church is found in Ephesians 4:1-16.
Rather than simply explaining what this passage teaches in great detail, let me offer a few questions which I believe might be helpful.
To whom is this passage written? (Unbeliever...certainly not. According to Ephesians 1:1 To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus)
In the opening of chapter 4, what is Paul's primary concern for the saints in Ephesus (Also known as the church of Ephesus) ? Is it not that they would walk or live in a worthy manner?
How does Paul describe this "Worthy Walk? (It would seem that Paul is referring to a life characterized by humility, gentleness, patience, love and a pursuit of unity)
In an effort to bring about this worthy walk in the body, what or whom has God provided? (11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;)
You see celafoe...though you and I agree on the fact that the "Church" is not a building...we would find ourselves in stark disagreement with the assertion that the New Testament Church has nothing to do with a "Pastor". What's more, you would be in opposition to the Scripture which it seems you are attempting to defend. Admittedly,there will always be a degree of disparity between the "perfect" church presented in Scripture and the problematic church that exists in the here and now. Nevertheless, we should not allow this to drive us away from God's design and plan. In fact, there is no plan B in God's book...only a plan A. According to Scripture, plan A includes Pastor's and Teachers which are given to the body to equip the Saints for the ministry.
Let me gently recommend that you spend some time studying this beautiful passage of Scripture which offers a wonderful picture of the body of Christ.
Blessings
Bstiltner77-- Thank you for your reply. However I must correct your understanding of Ephesians 4. You have the given me "the churches of men" teaching of this scripture and not the scriptural meaning. By your addition of the word "as" which is not part of this verse you are trying to make it say something it does not say.
Eph 4:11-13 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
"to be" is not in there in the original either.
These men given to the church are men that are called by God to be "servants of ALL". These are ministries that men do and are NOT titles of positions.
There are only two positions in the new testament church and they require SERVANTHOOD not executive performance. They are Elder (bishop, overseer and elder are the same person) and deacon.,
Look at the greatest apostle that ever lived Brother Paul of Tarsus.
HE NEVER set himself up as over anyone and NEVER even called himself apostle Paul . He always said ie"
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
Gal 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), and all the brethren who are with me
Phil 1:1 Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ,
There is no such position as "pastor " in the church of Christ, it is only found in the "churches of men" and those that fill it are virtually always hirelings.
The ONLY titles in the new testament church are "brother" and "sister.
The correct translation of vs 12 is "for the equipping of the sainst for the work of the ministry". The saints are to do the work of the ministry not some man that assumes a non existant title of "pastor.
I have several article pertaining to this on here if you have an interest in the truth of scripture vs the words of men.
I would also suggest that you get a copy of the interlinear bible . A direct translation without the added words of translators that want you to believe their way.
Your last comment is quite offensive to me as I have been studying scripture longer than you have been alive if that is your picture. I believe the scriptures not men. The bible says Christ is the head of man, and He will teach what scripture means if we ask
Celafoe, your statement, "These men given to the church are men that are called by God to be "servants of ALL". These are ministries that men do and are NOT titles of positions." is a bit unclear. Are these ministries or men in your assessment?
they are servant men given to the church that have been given special anointing by God to fulfill the MINISTRY the benefit of the body of Christ. virtually all of the men today calling themself by ministry name are not of God, but of men.
Beautiful, Celafoe. You make a most wonderful distinction, here.
Most people look at the physical and the literal. That's how they treat their interpretation of the Bible, too, and they miss everything.
The Bible was written by Kabbalists and in code. It's a map for the path back to God. That wisdom is now available to the general public. Everything that Christ said is given new meaning and a wholeness that transcends mortal words.
http://perceivingreality.com/
by Anthony Amalokwu 10 years ago
How can a pastor like me make my church members to love me?If my church members love me, they will obey me and leading them will be easier for me
by charlie 10 years ago
Why do you think this scripture is ignored by the "professional" ministers?2 Cor 4: 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus' sake.
by ngureco 13 years ago
How Do I Identify The True Christ Church From Satan (False) Church?
by haj3396 13 years ago
This Scripture tell you which church is the true church. Rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Need to truly understand this scripture reply.
by Kris 7 years ago
What do you imagine the apostles saying to the churches today?Specifically what do you imagine them saying to churches in America? Do you see them agreeing with the likes of Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, Joyce Meyer ect? Or do you see them having harsh words for preachers like these?
by Susan Reid 11 years ago
What advice do you have for someone interested in becoming a Pastor?
Copyright © 2024 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2024 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |