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Eric Dierker says
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Good point Eric! Revelations 2 and 3 speaks to 7 groups. What are they called?
We are not a church under that meaning, Jesus never claimbed to be under those present day temple buildings known as syngogs. He went door to door and preached by the sea side to thousands. He was not in the in the temple of hypocritical worship.
I haven't seen that Jesus went door to door. I do know he walked and gathered the disciples. Crowds gathered around him as he walked through towns. On at least two occasions he multiplied fish and bread to feed the multitudes.
Then Diane you missed when he talked to the woman at the well .when he fed multitudes with bread and fish.when he sent them out by twos never did he say come to the temple .Luke 10:1 says they went ahead of him where he was to go. no temple mention .
No I didn't miss anything. I asked a question because I wanted to know the answer. I'm not debating. I responded to Eric with a question.
Maybe they were called churches. And I always thought that Paul was writing to churches. I also thought that Jesus when young kind of ran away to the temple. And that in his own home town He was preaching the word in a temple. Maybe bad translations?
Eric, I use biblestudytools.org and they have at least 50 translations. I have read what is consistent with what you are saying.
Diane I just can't figure out what is wrong with the concept of having a place to gather and worship with family, friends and neighbors. I understand the problem with Hierarchy and all the falseness involved. But a church is just place to worship.
Eric you said it right just a place. But did Jesus run the money hungry people from his Fathers house. Luke 19:45-46
47 says the chief prist in his Father temple was seeking to kill him.
So Jesus works were many times outside going door to door.
The word ecclesia can be found in Greek text as far back as 600 BCE. It means assembly- called out. It can not mean church if the word ecclesia is found in Greek text 600 years before Jesus was born. Ecclesia MEAN assembly.
Diane I just came on and I will catch up with questions. But the last one is about your sister I am sorry for your troubled relationship. Why do you want her to go to your church. Because it seems that is the big problem . Your beliefs differ
My sister is 67. Her issues are very complicated and may be genetic. I'm not trying to get her to go to church. She's older and considered herself more superior. She made many bad choices She is in a Sect 8 bldg & only gets visits from JW.
But you said earlier that she will not go to anothers church ? Your question is based off the subject. Could it be that this is a tug a war. She is standing for her truth .and you want her to stand for yours ? You must love her as your sister .
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Kiss andTales says
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My sister told me that witnesses are to "come out from among them?" What does that mean?
Diane if I was to say a building was comtaninated with mold and risk your life. What would you do?
Many religions are contaminated with Babylon or pagan teachings they risk our relationship with the Heavenly Father.
They will recieve his wrath.
K&T you are so positive you are covered by the Lord -- why would you be so selfish as to not enter the infected building to save those in it. You allow the bad by inaction. You let others die because you are afraid?
K&T, I'm discussing something similar on FB. Illuminati/Freemasonry and the presidency. I believe nothing without a credible source. Eric, we aren't saved because we are nice. Many non-Christian people are very nice. Muhammad Ali just died e
Eric People have not change that much they still use God house to rob people , and people still hate you for speaking the truth. It is Jesus work we either accept it or we reject it .but basically its up to us. No human can decide that for you.
I know of "churches" that are a stench in God's nostrils. Each church addressed in Revelations 2 and 3 was different. Not all churches are the same. Not all priests are molesters. Not everyone in church has a relationship with God.
True Diane Ro 2:13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous.
Also true there are nice people good people
I was considered to be so, I am better and improved and happier
Do you feel all churches rob God? How?
I feel as Jesus feels .what he says is the correct way to see it.
And if all religions were correct then Jesus would have not given warning !
Mat 7:23. He will disown them.
So many claiming to know him by Lord will be declined.
How do you know "they" rob God? and how? All we have is our words and that's not enough to convince people who don't know us. Jesus is God and I can't imagine the pain He has gone through. I trust Him and want to please Him.
Diane why did Jesus tell those people at Mark 11:17 and others scriptures you are making my house a cave of robbers ?
And I did not phase all religion as you phase.
You can not rob God of something he made gold and silver. But you can insult him.
My subject is Christians going to church - not religions. Based on what my sister said, JWs are not allowed to go to churches. Not a personal decision but one dictated by JW leaders. What contaminates all churches?
Diane I am a Jehovah witness . your sister stated her choice and concious matter.
We do not need to attend a church when we have our own choice of worship. We are not searching for something we have found the truth.
Your statements say different.
Does a man say "I have found the truth and so will stop looking for more truth"? I cannot believe that I am fully learned in all things. I do not believe I have been given all wisdom. For if I am my journey through this life is at an end.
Eric does a man or woman find a mate commit and marry .and continues to look for mates. No. ! If you have found the truth it is the same.
You keep looking when you are not satisfied. We have no doubt.
Also we have no leaders but one Jesus. Mat23:10
K&T I do not accept that comparison. Wisdom and understanding are not like a marriage. And hopefully a married couple's love grows as times passes and it changes as they both grow in Christ together. I love a different woman though she is the sam
Well you have the right to accept my explanation or not.
But not true it takes wisdom and understanding and commitment in any relationship even in yours with the heavenly Father Which is a very serious relationship more then marriage.
K&T please know that I respect your position. The fact that I disagree with it, does not change my respect for it. Truly marriage requires constant "work" as does our relationship with God.
I never expect people to agree just because I believe this. But I speak the truth as I know it from my heart. You will believe what you wish to believe.I understand that. But I also have the same right as you and I am happy .
Thank you for answering the question K&T. Eric, thank you for your reflections and input as well. To God be the glory!
You welcome Diane. I also wanted you to know .That Jesus quoted a scripture as Jeremiah 7:11 .he clearly says my Father's house. At John 2:16 which says my Father's house. Not his own to claim.
They are two different beings.
Diane- You ghave to be careful when someone quote to you out of the Holy Scriptures which is translated and printed by the Watch Tower Bible and Track Society. Much of what is quoted from it is out of context as K&T likes to do. Typical JW falseh
There seems to be no problem with King James of 1600's who deleted the tetragramington 7000 times YHWH of Gods personal name. Do you say anything about that of him his translations
They are not truthful. And yet people are confused of God and Jesus.
Hi Kingdom! I just don't like going in circles. I tried to focus on church because my sister talked like it is a BIG no no! Goes back to why would they say they are Christians if they don't have Christian beliefs. I don't like discussing multiple
Diane if I tell you Jesus is our leader and you say we are not christains .then you have already drawn your own opinion and conclusion. We love and follow Jesus instructions. That is what a genuine christain does.
Believe your sister. Not a stranger
Diane- JW can claim their not a church until their blue in the face. With regards to their claim of being christian, well I notice they never call themselves "DISCIPLES" of Christ.. Anyone can claim to be a christian.
Kingdom, I agree it seems to be a word game. K&T, anyone can be a leader. Jesus is God and those who believe it and accept Him as God will be with Him forever.
Well lets make more sure of Jesus words. James 2:19 they believe but will die forever. He believed also but is dead forever. John 17:12 no! believing is not enough Eph 4:13.
Col 1:10. Accurate knowledge is the only map that leads into paradise .
It always intrigues me when people put restrictions on God. I think probably God can save and deliver who ever God chooses. We follow the ordinary, but God can do the extraordinary.
James 2:19 19" You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" NWT was rewritten to change the text. We are warned to not add or take away. In context, it is about people who say they have faith and do no works is
Diane who translation is being changed .you are referring to King James translations. Because you must be a translator of Hebrew and Greek to say something was changed.
King James took Gods name YHWH out the bible. Now Newer version is worser .
No I read KJV also. You bring up passages that JW has discused from watchtower perspective. When you just name them, the assumption is that everyone interprets them like JW. We don't so that's why we may appear to not know. We don't know the Watc
I was a student of the bible before I made a dedication as a JW. What I learned was that King James gave the translators instructions under his influence to reflect the Church of England as ecclesiology and episcopal.
What was he translating from ?
What does King James have to do with the Watchtower? It seems questions are added to change the direction of the discussion.
You are claimbing we changed the bible. Was a change done compared to king James ? or to Hebrew and Greek ?
If you do not know the origanal format of hebrew and Greek then you can not say what was changed. You are attacking what you do not know
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.
JW NWT Jn1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word WAS A god 1 EX added "a" to differentiate the Word from God
Then Diane what was the translation before king James wrote this in 1600's
You would have to know hebrew and Greek But how can you tell what is phoney if you have no original copy to compare it with.
King James has taken from the bible of Hebr Greek
K&T, you said you referred to the KJV. I compared KJV to JW NWT to show that they are not the same. So NWT is not based on KJV but on Hebrew. Who is the JW translator that did this? I am trying to follow your logic.
Diane- FYI in the year 1557 a man name William Whittingham printed the Geneva New Tesiment in english and in the year 1565 the Biships Bible was writen in English. The word "church" showed up for the first time in the Geneva New Testiment. in 1557
Interesting Kingdom! Before that time, what were the 7 groups discussed in Revelations 2 and 3 called?
Wow this is interesting. Our different views are just amazing. It is a nice reminder that God created diversity and intellect. Paul, it seems to me was writing to "churches" which is the word for it that we use today. A body or worshipers.
Eric, I found the word "ecclesia/ekklesia" so far. I'm still researching because I want to know if it means something different or is it just a word translation.
Diane- The word ecclesia (in Greek) was replaced with the word church for the first time in the Geneva New Testiment in 1557. Ecclesia means assembly or called out. The word church was used due the political reasons of that time.
K&T, you said trust my sister. My sister is a very troubled person. She has alienated the whole family. She does not have 1 friend. She goes back and forth with tales that use to cause conflict. Everybody knows what she does now and they ign
Diane- Research the word ecclesia. The word ecclesia was used as far back as 600 BCE in Greek text. It means Called out or assembly. The church did not exist 600 years before Jesus was born.
Knowledge, why is it not just a translation. We are not to forsake the assembly of believers. Does it matter what you call it?
Diane I went to an assembly of believers last evening. The "church" was outside. The message had a part where the notion of the church being inside of us was mentioned. Kind of a cool way to look at it.
Diane I think you love and care for your sister .like my children we may have a different view but can you understand them from a distance.Visit a Jw or go to the web site and learn what your sister hold value .I am sure she loves you too.
Diane- Don't fall for the JW garbage.
Kingdom I have JWs on my prayer list. I pray that the Holy Spirit will soften their hearts to understand that Jesus is God. I look up there beliefs to be knowledgeable in discussion. K&T, I am patient with my sister because I know she is hurtin
That is good Diane to be patient . But love is far more reaching . She needs to know you love her .not attack her choice in her worship. She loves Jesus .but not in your order but the best way she knows how to love him.
Love covers over many things
K&T, I'm working on all fruit 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Kingdom, why are your posts flagged. I pick "not spa
Diane- I don't know why my comments have been flagged or deleted.
I wonder if there are certain words they look for. I looked up through the list and 4 of your posts had a moderation note. Are you seeing your posts come up.
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