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Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

  1. profile image0
    Greatest I amposted 4 years ago

    Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
    And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

    Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
    That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

    Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

    If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

    Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

    Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

    Consider.
    First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
    In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

    Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.
    As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
    Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

    Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

    This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

    Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

    There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

    These links speak to theistic evolution.

    http://www.americamagazine.org/content/ … le_id=1205

    http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfMTH#g/c … F680C1DBEB

    If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

    If the above is not convincing enough for you then show me where in this baby evil lives or is a part of it’s nature and instincts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

    Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
    And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

    Regards
    DL

    1. lorlie6 profile image84
      lorlie6posted 4 years ago in reply to this

      "Evil" is not a term I usually use when addressing the nature of our species-though it does apply so some, obviously, very much so.
      But I do acknowledge the human 'shadow'-a la Carl Jung-which resides in every human being.
      We are all beings I believe blessed with good qualities and frighteningly dark-and I find we must embrace both.  Wholeheartedly
      Otherwise we will battle the 'evil' forces to our own destruction.

      1. profile image0
        Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well put.

        Regards
        DL

  2. AshtonFirefly profile image84
    AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago

    Interesting post.
    I myself have pondered these questions in my search of the truth these days.
    For me, the story has never made sense. The question of evil and where it came from, and why we would sin.
    Another aspect which confused me was this: if Adam and Eve sinned, why should all of us be cursed with going to hell by default simply because they did something terrible? It seems pretty cruel from a God who is supposed to be so just.
    Also, does God have an evil element? After all, he created Lucifer, and look what he did. How could anything God made even have any capacity for evil?
    These questions and many more have caused me many sleepless nights.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps the first thing you should do is recognize that when Christianity usurped the Jewish God, they reversed what the Jews saw as man's elevation to that of a fall.

      http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

      The second thing I would recommend is to in no way read scriptures literally. The Jews do not.

      All God's should be thought of as myths unless you are lucky enough to have an apotheosis or revelation. Even then, if you find God and suffer through apotheosis, you will know or learn that you are to raise your bar of expectation and seek further.

      The Godhead is real but it is not the miracle working super absente immoral genocidal son murderer that Christianity has invented.

      Seek yes but find a God with morals.

      Regards
      DL

      1. AshtonFirefly profile image84
        AshtonFireflyposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Perhaps. But for me, one version of Christianity is just as problematic as another.

        1. profile image0
          Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I understand but see that you do not know exactly what Gnostic Christians are.

          We are basically the goats to the Christian sheeple.

          That is why they hate us and when Constantine bought the church, they killed many Gnostics and tried to burn all their scriptures. Gnostics seek God and know that for most he can never be found. It bases itself on real knowledge and not fantasy. That is why Christians hate us.
          I do not seek converts though. Atheism and secular humanism are my next choice and what I would be if I had not found something to keep me in the spiritual camp. Not the religious camp.

          Regards
          DL

  3. AEvans profile image70
    AEvansposted 4 years ago

    God did not tell Eve to eat the fruit, Satan did. Satan was not truly a "Serpent" it was a term used to represent darkness. He was supposedly a very handsome fallen angel. God knew we would sin and would be tempted. God is not always nice as people portray him to be and all fall short of the Glory of God.

    God has also given all of us "Free Will" each individual can make their own decisions. Humans know right from wrong and what choices they need to make. I personally prefer to be kind to others and not be malicious toward another person.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Thanks for the dogma. Now try thinking.

      It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

      If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

      God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

      This then begs the question.

      What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

      Only an insane God. That’s who.

      The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

      One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
      They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYII … re=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g … re=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXr … re=related

      Regards
      DL
      ------------------------

      Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

      That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

      But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

      If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


      Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

      Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

      Consider.
      First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

      Evil then is only human to human.
      As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
      Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

      Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

      This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

      Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

      There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

      http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfMTH#g/c … F680C1DBEB

      I gave a message to A F just above. You need to read it because you have lost your reason and logic to fantasy, miracles and magic.

      You should not base a theology on fantasy.

      Regards
      DL

  4. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    It sounds as you are saying that Sin and Evil are one and the same?
    I think to do anything which is harmfull to our mind, body or spirit (or anyone elses) is a sin.

      Evil ??   I'm not exactly sure as to what that is ....   by the sound of its name alone; I don't  want any of it on MY  plate.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yet you cannot help but do it.
      Right?

      Regards
      DL

      1. Jerami profile image77
        Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        YEP!     can't help but to sin ....    the evil thing?    I am not aware if I was.
        won't explain why but I don't get to get on here much any more   ...sorry took so long to respond.

        1. profile image0
          Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Then let me broaden your awareness.
          The last time you competed for a job let's say. You may have won but created a loser of the one who did not get the work. He would see evil in this because if he has a long string of loses and cannot find someone to beat out for a job, he will eventually die.

          You could have done the empathic or kind thing and let him win but then you would be the loser and if you continued to do this you would be the one to eventually die.

          You have to compete and win and create a loser and thus do evil from his POV or you will die. You like all who want to survive must do evil.

          Regards
          DL

  5. profile image0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    When I struggled with this question (for years) I found some relaxation in Romans chs 5-8. This section of the bible sort of speaks to these questions. I feel that God did create evil ,though it could have existed in the void atmosphere for all i Know for sure. There were two trees. The bible says he created the earth from nothing. Our free will means nothing if we have no options.
    No, we can't help but do wrong. My Christian faith says that God deals with us as we are. He knows our hearts intent. When we err, we are remorseful and we say sorry, and God our father says ok. smile no condemnation. For me, it is a way of life that struggles to do right rather than the much easier wrong. Evil is among us. With God's instruction, it does not overtake us. Punishment??? The jury is still out on that for me. There are "punishments" listed but again, we are dealt with according to our hearts and faith. Gods mercy endures forever.
    The question grabbed me.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      If as you say, you cannot help but do evil, then is God's punishment fair and just?

      Remember that you are doing finite sins and his punishment is eternal purposeless torture.

      You spoke of A & E and free will.
      How do you see the justice of what God did the first time A & E showed they were actually free to choose when they chose to do their will and not God's by eating of the tree of knowledge?

      Was it just punishment?

      Regards
      DL

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Only God can say what just is. I feel that it must have been important enough for them to be told to stay away from the tree. The bible says that God is just. But he can see the whole picture. He knew what would happen if the people ate of knowledge. The people, being ignorant, did not. It may have helped for them to leave the tree alone, but somebody, somewhere would have eaten. Free will was given, knowledge was taken, and consequences were the result. Yes, the punishment was just. They were free to choose...but they had instructions. They chose wrong. They and their children pay forever. One knowledge comes, it comes.

        1. profile image0
          Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          "Only God can say what just is."

          I see. That means yiou are an idol worshipper who has pasted her bible pages all over a golden calf. You have hidden thee calf but it's shape is still showing.

            It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

          If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

          God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

          This then begs the question.

          What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

          Only an insane God. That’s who.

          The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

          One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
          They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYII … re=related

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g … re=related

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXr … re=related

          ------------------------

          Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

          That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

          But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

          If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


          Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

          Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

          Consider.
          First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

          Evil then is only human to human.
          As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
          Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

          Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

          This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

          Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

          There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

          http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfMTH#g/c … F680C1DBEB

          Regards
          DL

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Since yours is extremely long, I will do my best to keep my post concise. Maybe it was not God's plan, but he knew what the children, being of free mind, would do. Therefore he made a way to fix the problem from the beginning. Idol worshipper??? I am in no way moved by that statement. It just doesn't seem to fit. However, God is God. We cannot figure out the entire picture. It is just too much for us to process. He gave us instructions. We are his children. As his children, we obey the instructions (on the "fridge") until he gets off work. If we don't obey, there will be consequences (or no tv) right? I mean, we (as A&E) just dont understand. Eve did not know the harm that she could cause. God did not tell her. He said, dont. She then had a choice. As we do now.

            1. profile image0
              Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              So God had no plan. Rather selective reading on your part and certainly not the dogma that your immoral religion shows.

              "Therefore he made a way to fix the problem from the beginning."

              Yes. To have his son murdered.

              "It is just too much for us to process."

              For you it seems so.

              For those who can thing, this does not apply.

              Regards
              DL

              1. profile image0
                genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I am not sure what you are looking for. If God planned for everything to happen then who are we to judge him??? I say if he wants puppets (or those who merely play their roles in his big elaborate production) the how can you or I stop him? I think free will means free will but you see it differently? But God does what he wants. I have decided for myself that I will follow the instructions, especially the ones left by Jesus. I don't have to justify my belief. I only have to report it.

                1. profile image0
                  Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Enjoy your slavery.

                  Regards
                  DL

                  1. profile image0
                    genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Sa-lay-very??? You kiddin'? I am so free it is frightening sometimes. The many, many, many years I spent in the church didn't help though. But I realize why I spent that time. I am freer than the "average" Christian. The rules that Jesus spoke against are still alive and kicking in the average church. I want you to ask me what you desire. If I can, I will answer. But all this talk about bondage is ridiculous! I am bound however. The Lord is my shepherd.

  6. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 4 years ago

    I believe the crux of the problem to be that we are attempting to define sin on a global scale. The answer lies within. Sin and evil lie within and we project it onto the rest of mankind. We eat of the apple each time we perceive evil.

    I'm not implying that no one does anything wrong. We all do, by our perception. However, we have to see it and label it as evil in order for it to be perceived as evil. I think the more evil you see, the more it resides in you; not the other way around.

    The problem with labeling things evil is that you refuse to compassionately view your fellow man. You trivialize the circumstances and thought processes that brought them to that point.

    That is why the saying 'Judgement is mine, saith the Lord' carries so much weight. You cannot know what motivates another human being. Why be so quick to see sin and evil? We set ourselves up to be judged in kind and we are party to the process of increasing the perception of sin by geometric proportions.

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I honestly don't believe that to label something evil is simply reflection. We all know good from evil, well, most of us. How can I not look upon injustice, or murder, or rape, or hatred as evil? When I see the evil act, am I merely seeing me because I noticed it? If the murderer or rapist or hater looks upon your acts and call them good; is it because he too is good? Really... No offense. I just would really like to understand what you mean when you say that.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think you see yourself in the actions of others. Most of us wouldn't commit a heinous act. The problem is, we don't try to see ourselves. That is the root of sin.

        Put it this way. When you  feel you have fallen short, you ask God for forgiveness. You know there are extenuating circumstances. You were a good person who reacted poorly to an unfortunate chain of events. You know God loves you and will take everything into account and, even though your actions were wrong you will be forgiven. Because, there are underlying factors only God can see.

        The sin is in not loving your fellow man enough to care to understand the underlying causes. And your fellow man  is expecting to be judged by an unreasonable yardstick. When you see the worst in another, that is all you see. And they know they will be judged by others only by the limited perception of each individual viewing nothing more  than the actions, never by people attempting to understand the how and why.

        If you were to pick up something in a store and walk out and I labeled you a thief, would I be right? Even if your family owned the store and that was the standard practice? No.

        What if I told others you were a thief. They explained the circumstances to me and I continued to call you a thief? I set myself up to be judged harshly in response. By the different perception of as many people who know my actions. All different. These people, in turn, will be judging me harshly and those they encounter will continue the process; judging not only me, but the people who judged me first. Simply because I first perceived evil where none existed.

        It works that way with everything we chose to judge. We set ourselves and the world around up for failure, by not giving each other the same benefit of the doubt we expect from a higher plane.

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Ok, I see what you mean. However, what if I am a liar? It is wrong to lie. I know  that I make a practice of lying. Are you a liar if you notice me lying and call me out?

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            It wouldn’t be wrong to notice the lie. But it would be wrong to label the lie a sin or evil. I have no idea why you lied. I need to know what motivated you to lie before I can begin to ponder what it ultimately means.

            I know that isn’t a good enough explanation, but there are an infinite number of variables that contribute to any course of action. Nothing need be so simple that we just write it off as bad, or evil, or sin; without first attempting to understand why. There is always a why and the why is important. When we ponder the why we find the good. We justify our own actions by the why. We see ourselves as good because of the why and we owe others the same consideration.

            If we never lost sight that there was always a why we wouldn’t recognize evil because it wouldn’t exist. We would constantly be striving to help bring our perception of good to the surface of our perception of others.

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I understand. God looks at the why, and he is the only one who "really" can. No judgment from us and that is why... We just can't see the heart. Yes we are to love without condition. I see your point. That is the kind of love God has. He wants us to love in spite of our brother's condition.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                I would say we were supposed to love in spite of our skewed perception. Simply because if I say 'I love you, in spite of your condition', it comes of as judgmental. I honestly don't know what his condition might truly be.

                But, we are on the same page. smile

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  In spite of our skewed perception. I can't hate my ex for dropping my 6mo old in a pot of boiling water because he was tired of changing diapers. God looks at the heart. Now, the instance did not occur in my life, but I knew and loved her. Such a cruel act can and will be labeled. However, I must love. The act was an evil act. God decides the rest of it. There are consequences. I believe the why sometimes is irrelevant. Consequences.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm so very sorry genaea. No one should ever have to deal with the pain of such as that.

    2. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes agree.

    3. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      E R

      Can you help but do evil?

      Regards
      DL

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Yes. You can help but do evil.

        Can I help but do evil? Not as of yet.

        That being said...those are by my standards. Which do not necessarily reflect the opinion of any higher consciousness within the cosmos.

        1. profile image0
          Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Evolution says that the entity must either compete or cooperate to survive.

          "Yes. You can help but do evil. "
          How can they not compete and do evil to the loser of that competition?
          If an entity never competes for resources, would it not die?
          Try to explain your statement please.
          A fairly exact scenario would be nice.

          Regards
          DL

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            You answered the question yourself. Cooperate.

            1. profile image0
              Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Thanks for the scenario. Not.

              Here is how life works. Refute it if you can.
              The last time you competed for a job let's say. You may have won but created a loser of the one who did not get the work. He would see evil in this because if he has a long string of loses and cannot find someone to beat out for a job, he will eventually die.

              You could have done the empathic or kind thing and let him win but then you would be the loser and if you continued to do this you would be the one to eventually die.

              You have to compete and win and create a loser and thus do evil from his POV or you will die. You like all who want to survive must do evil.

              Regards
              DL

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                That scenario is ridiculous. I suppose it would make sense if all of the following were true:

                1.    We were only allowed to apply for a position with the same job description once in our lifetimes, and there was only one job available for every two people.
                2.    In order to ‘beat someone out of the position’ I actually had to physically beat them.
                3.    Death results from not being hired for a job
                4.    Our society did not have safety nets set in place to help the unemployed.

                I have not gotten every position I applied for. I do not consider the person who got the position evil. I don’t consider the firm that chose someone else evil. And, I’m going to be brutally honest here, I consider it disturbing that you would present such a ludicrous scenario as if it were evidence of evil.

                1. profile image0
                  Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  So much for you knowing what life is all about.
                  Too bad you cannot follow a logic trail and have no clue as to how evolution works.

                  Regards
                  DL

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Haha. Too bad your ego keeps you from admitting a misstep. You can't pretend bizarro world exists and then expect everyone to play pretend with you.

  7. jacharless profile image81
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    GIA,
    Have seen you throw that term out a few times. Sadly, there can be no such thing as a Gnostic Christian or Christian Gnostic. The terms are at odds with one another. If one claims to be a GC or CG, then sadly they too are at odds within themselves...
    James

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Ignore history if you want.

      Christian Gnosticism in the first centuries.

      Important early Gnostics include Simon Magus, Cerinthus, Carpocrates, and Basilides. Early figures such as Marcion, Theudas, and Nicolas of Antioch are more debatable.

      Jesus is usually claimed as a gnostic leader by gnostics, as are several of his apostles, such as Thomas the Apostle, often thought of as the founder of the Thomasine form of Gnosticism. Indeed, Mary Magdalene is respected as a Gnostic leader, and is considered superior to the twelve apostles by some gnostic texts, such as the Gospel of Mary. John the Evangelist is claimed as a Gnostic by some Gnostic interpreters.[1] As is even St Paul.[2]

      A student of Valentinius claims that Theudas was a student of St. Paul, and in turn taught Valentinius, which would put Theudas in the late 1st century if true.

      Nicolas of Antioch and Jezebel of Thyatira are sometimes claimed as leaders of the Nicolaitans described in the Book of Revelation. They were late 1st century figures. It's unclear just how Gnostic these figures were, but Epiphanius believes that the Archontic Gnostics are descendents of the Nicolatians.

      By the 2nd century several major schools are separating out, such as the Sethians (with no clear leaders), and the Valentinians following the teachings of Valentinus.

      By the 3rd century the prophet Mani gave birth to Manicheanism, a syncretic gnostic religion which was influenced by Buddhism, Zoroastrianism and Christianity.

      http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=na … n+Magus%2c

      Accept it or--------

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4NKYn4A3mg

      Regards
      DL

  8. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    If no living thing commits evil except humans, it is because no living thing engages in excess and profit except humans.

  9. jacharless profile image81
    jacharlessposted 4 years ago

    Knowledge = the collective mirror of light-dark; revealed-hidden; good-evil.
    Reason = the dividing of Knowledge.
    Sin = justifying the passion, behind Reason.
    Ego {ha-satan: to create opposition, to be adverse to; to cause division}

    Agape/Philos = the combined Force of [all] Life which supersedes Knowledge and Reason. Creator is Agape / Creator is Philos {Wisdom}.
    What opposes Agape / Wisdom? Ego, which creates Sin, which is Reason, the dividing of Knowledge, which leads to death.

    James.

    1. pennyofheaven profile image80
      pennyofheavenposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      That about sums it up.

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I'm just curious if you've contacted the dictionary companies with your brand new definitions?

      1. jacharless profile image81
        jacharlessposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        And in Kind, have you contacted the Guinness World Records for the most ridiculous questions asked by one person, on a single website, else decided to become a contestant on the television program Jeopardy?

  10. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    Sounds all something. Makes no sense to me.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      + 1

      He is not trying to make sense.

      Regards
      DL

  11. lone77star profile image88
    lone77starposted 4 years ago

    A profound sounding question, @Greatest I am.

    Yes, you can help but do evil. No question about it.

    It's called "responsibility."

    My current understanding (and it keeps changing and evolving over the last several decades), is that ego is the source of all evil. Ego is the false self -- a physical universe construct with which we interface with physical reality. Ego is the essence of evil in so many ways. Not only do we get murder, theft and betrayal from ego, but we also get the victim, the suicide perpetrator, and the self-righteous church goer who would not have anything to do with sinners. These are all manifestations of evil.

    Evil is attachments to physicality (like possessions, both physical and mental). Evil is the sense of importance of things and states of being (like pride).

    You say we must do good and evil? Absolutely not.

    Even the supreme good of the Pharisees was considered evil, because it was the relative good of a physical dichotomy. It was a self-righteous good of ego for ego's sake.

    True good (true righteousness for righteousness' sake) is without blemish. It is perfection, like the Buddhist paramitas -- a true, one-sided coin of perfect goodness. We must do only paramita good. This is the good of creation and everlasting life.

    Let me give you an example: The confidence of true "faith" is that which allows miracles to happen. It is perfect confidence without even the tiniest spot of doubt. I have been there.

    When Peter stepped out of his storm-tossed boat onto the Sea of Galilee to stand before his master, he had given up the reason and reasonableness of mortal ego. There was no room for doubt in his perfect confidence. The moment doubt returned, he began to sink. That doubt was evil, because it was part of the trap of willful turning away from the spiritual wholeness of God.

    It took me a lifetime to understand this much. And after all of the miracles, I still have so very far to go.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Yes. I see that you do.

      You say "Yes, you can help but do evil. No question about it."

      I will assume that you are not speaking of yourself.
      Care to show how you would refute this scenario.
      The last time you competed for a job let's say. You may have won but created a loser of the one who did not get the work. He would see evil in this because if he has a long string of loses and cannot find someone to beat out for a job, he will eventually die.

      You could have done the empathic or kind thing and let him win but then you would be the loser and if you continued to do this you would be the one to eventually die.

      You have to compete and win and create a loser and thus do evil from his POV or you will die. You like all who want to survive must do evil.

      If you accept this as true, then your statement above hints that someone has beaten this system. Please show how.

      Regards
      DL

  12. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 4 years ago

    I have it that the ego interprets the body. All bodies excepting the difference between male and female are the same. My body does not hate any other body. Identities are created as interpretations of the mind. A religious Identity and a science identity interpret the same phenomenon in different ways. I am a preacher. I am a scientist. Both bodies are the same. Identities often do not agree. Identities often hate each other.
    Identities are created to accomplish objectives. Firemen fight fires.
    I have one body. I can have many identities each to accomplish different objectives. My identities can hate my body. My identities can hate others.
    In so far as I can tell my body hates no one.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Perhaps so but you still do what others would call evil to them whenever you compete and win against them.

      Regards
      DL

  13. cheaptrick profile image75
    cheaptrickposted 4 years ago

    OP,you ask this question as though everyone agrees on what evil is.It would be clearer if we had a consensus on that.
    Seems to me that evil depends upon time,place,and circumstance.An interrogator in Nam would inject amphetamines to keep his"subject"awake and aware of the pain he inflicted...The interrogator came home with medals and ribbons on his chest.
    Same scenario but this time change the place to Dallas Texas and the interrogator gets the electric chair as a demented serial killer.
    Human sacrifice,pedophilia,incest,even torture are perfectly acceptable or a horrendous crime depending on...Time,Place,and Circumstance...always.So,what is evil?Is it an absolute...very unlikely.
    From a solipsist point of view,we can not agree on whether anyone else even exists,let alone what evil is and when it should be condemned or not.
    Damn,I wrote a whole hub huh?Gotta quit these Espresso double shots every morning Ha!

    1. profile image0
      genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good thoughts. One must make his own decisions about what evil is. For me, it is sin, for you, maybe not. And vice versa, all the way around. We are dealt with according to our faith/standard. In a somewhat nutshell. And that agrees with my spirit. The bible, as well, agrees.

      1. Disappearinghead profile image88
        Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        How do you know what sin is? Sin is only identified by the law and apart from the law sin is not charged to anyone's account. See Romans. The 613 laws dealt with sin, and as we cannot invent new laws we cannot invent new sins (which Christians spend a lot of time doing) for which there is no law identified. Thus we are free to live by our good conscience and need not be concerned by anybody's opinion on what constitutes sin. We truely are free and do not need to be bound up with worrying about sin.

        1. Jerami profile image77
          Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          couldn't have said it better myself.

        2. profile image0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          You, in a sense, said what I said. Are you so caught up in verbiage, that you cannot receive the message?

          1. Disappearinghead profile image88
            Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            sad

      2. profile image0
        Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Genaea

        You agree with the bible?

        You think human sacrifice and a genocidal God are good?
        Give your pathetic head a shake.

        Regards
        DL

        1. profile image0
          genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          If you study, you realize that the word does not stop there. He showed us our just desserts for sin, then he sent a perfect lamb to right all your wrong because of faith in him. Sounds pretty good to me. The genocide was the Pharoh killing boys because he was trying to stop Jesus from coming?  You mean that?

          1. profile image0
            Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Eh, genocide. You know, the great flood.
            God hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he could flex his holy muscles and kill children was just a worm up to his use of genocide. Just as immoral but not quite as good, ----- evil that is.

            Regards
            DL

            1. profile image0
              genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Ooooohhh!! You're talking OLD old. What we deserve as a result of disobedience.  Yes, he had some points to prove. Why don't you write him a stern letter. Then, obey. I mean, what else is there? You can't even see God. How can you fight him? His word was standing then, all those ages ago. His words stands forever. You don't have to. But I'm doing it. First, believed and then, asked for help from a heart that said, "please?" then believed some more. I read the bible because I was raised in the church and I saw it work for so many! Faith opens the door for seeing it with your own eyes/heart.

              1. profile image0
                Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Yes and your evil heart says that genocide against mankind is good.

                You just keep following that policy and God will enjoy giving your ilk to Satan.

                Regards
                DL

                1. profile image0
                  genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  You keep repeating those phrases, which have no power, and I will keep repeating the ones that do.

                  1. profile image0
                    Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Keep doing so. Your immorality does my job of showing people how immoral Christianity is.

                    It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

                    If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

                    God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

                    This then begs the question.

                    What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

                    Only an insane God. That’s who.

                    The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

                    One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
                    They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqN8EYII … re=related

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dspWh9g … re=related

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXr … re=related

                    Regards
                    DL

                2. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh gosh. So those who disagree with you are hell bound? That's been done to death. You might try to find some new material.

                  1. profile image0
                    Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    It is not disagreeing with me. It is you believing as Satan would.
                    That genocide is good justice and so is having your own son murdered needlessly.

                    Regards
                    DL

    2. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Cheaptrick

      I agree evil is hard to define and is objective  and for this O P a definition is not necessary.

      Now. Can you help but do evil?

      Regards
      DL

  14. profile image0
    genaeaposted 4 years ago

    Oh, and I can do some Reggae. And I love juice!!! wink

  15. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 4 years ago

    Where do people get the isea that to sin is to be evil?

    In my mind ...  I see evil as being void of anything which is good.

    1. Disappearinghead profile image88
      Disappearingheadposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. smile

  16. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    We all have the capacity to do evil however we also have the capacity to choose between doing good and doing evil.

    If people are sitting down at a movie theater and someone shows up with firearms they have the capacity and the freedom not to harm these people.

    If friends come together and one or more decides to rob a store people have the choice not to participate.

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      True, but some people are told not to do evil because they believe they'll receive their reward in heaven, while others just use their brains and figure it out themselves. Huge difference.

      1. SpanStar profile image60
        SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Frankly Troubled Man, I'm wondering where this figuring it out for one's self comes from because we aren't born with?

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          We aren't born with beliefs in gods or would know what their moral and ethical expectations were, either.

          Both are developed over time along with the person's personal and biological development. If one is taught how to use logic, reason and rationale, they are quite capable and able to figure it out themselves.

          Are you saying you never developed these skills?

          1. SpanStar profile image60
            SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Unlike your understanding of  logic it is still based on human understanding and humans have never been perfect so you keep believing in flawed beings.

            1. A Troubled Man profile image60
              A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              I'm not interested in perfection other than how my margaritas and martinis are made.

              I don't "believe" in flawed beings, either, because I have no idea what that means.

              But, I can see by your response here that you have adequately answered my question, anyways. Thanks.

        2. profile image0
          Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          S S.

          " I'm wondering where this figuring it out for one's self comes from because we aren't born with?"

          Look again for the first time.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

          Regards
          DL

  17. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    Greatest I am,

    I appreciate the link to the supposedly cognitive thinking of newborns but frankly what these people were doing I honestly have to say it looks like nothing but a bunch of malarkey.

    I saw no practical applications of real cognitive thinking and in fact if one chooses another authority I have read in the past children can be influenced by a number of factors one including color.

    If we were to go on the assertion that the child is born with a moral compass how is it that a child capable of walking around would walk up to a newborn in their crib and smack them in the face probably repeatedly if they weren't stopped?

    If a child understands the difference between right and wrong why is it that parents have to watch that the child does not dart out into the street where they clearly run the risk of being killed?

    Born with morality Not Even.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It is a survival trait.

      Can you not fathom how it is better to survival if we cooperate instead of compete?

      Regards
      DL

    2. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I've never seen nor heard of such a thing. Why can't you come up with real examples rather than just making them up?



      Morality has nothing to do with darting out onto the street. That's just plain silly.

      1. profile image0
        genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        You have never seen a baby beat another baby, til the baby squeals??? Right/wrong has everything to do with running into the street. But the other scenario is all about morality.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Is that a daily event in your home?



          LOL!

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Yep! It shows...

        2. SpanStar profile image60
          SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I'm guessing you're directing your comments towards me-PLEASE DON'T TELL ME WHAT I'VE SEEN how the heck do you are any of those who have not walked were I walk know anything about what's seen.  I've see babies strike each other in the face while on the floor mad that the other child is playing with there toy.  You want someone else to tell you the same thing contact-(Judge Judy and ask her about a niece whom she loves having done what I said).

          People have to stop thinking for other people especially when they don't know.

          1. profile image0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Uh, hello? I agreed with you.. See?

          2. profile image0
            genaeaposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Oh, i see the mixup, sorry.

            1. SpanStar profile image60
              SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              apology accepted and thank you.

          3. A Troubled Man profile image60
            A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps, those babies are spawns of the devil and were not born Christians?

            Would a baby born into a Christian family act that way?

            1. SpanStar profile image60
              SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              For someone who likes to think of themselves as enlightened your comments call into question how much common sense do you really understand.  For people with common sense, recognizes spirit teaching is a process.

              1. A Troubled Man profile image60
                A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Actually, people with common sense recognize anything to do with "spirits" is nonsense.

                And no, I don't think of myself as enlightened.

                1. SpanStar profile image60
                  SpanStarposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  "no, I don't think of myself as enlightened"

                  Finally one thing we can agree on.

                  1. profile image0
                    Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                    Satan has worked his deception on you and the spirits you follow are evil.

                    Regards
                    DL

  18. SpanStar profile image60
    SpanStarposted 4 years ago

    If you want to serve and worship a deity that don't give a flying leap about you then you certainly have my blessings.

    1. profile image0
      Greatest I amposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God has no need of worship. or anything you can give. If you need to adore an imaginary construct then by all means do. Just do not expect to become brighter or develop good morals from your genocidal God than you already have. Good old human sacrifice. Yum, yum.

      Regards
      DL

 
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