Cop Killer Claims He Was Jesus

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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
"Clemmons, the man suspected of gunning down four police officers at a coffee shop on Sunday, had been charged with assaulting a police officer and raping a child, and investigators in the sex case said he was motivated by visions that he was Jesus Christ and that the world was on the verge of the apocalypse." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,578285,00.html

Comments
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  Ken R. Abellposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can believe my belly button is going start spewing out gold coins, but my belief does not make it so. No rush to the bank for me.
  
  My point is that people are free to "believe" or free to say they believe anything they want, but saying, does not make it so.
  
  Personally, I think the guy was looney tunes crazy. Maybe the whole Jesus & apocalypse stuff was him laying the groundwork for an insanity defense, which of course, will now not be necessary since the cops shot him dead.
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  pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The only prerequisite is his footware...sandals i presume.
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  Google Galposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sounds like meth to me
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So what. I can say I am an eggplant, or a sex god. Does it make me one? (Well, I am a sex god)
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am an eggplant and a sex god
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  ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's just a scumbag trying to get himself set up for an insanity defense.
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  waynetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And fellow hubbers, this is what the hubpages religious debates in the forum can do to you...let that be a lesson to all the religious thread starters!!
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you implying that religious belief caused this man to rape a child and murder four police officers in cold blood?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It could have. He seems to think it did in the news quote.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So based on that your implied argument is:
  
  Person p holds a religious belief.
  p commits rape and murder.
  Therefore religious belief caused p to commit rape and murder.
  
  Can you see the problem with that argument?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes! You are making assumptions to protect your faith! I said his belief could have been responsible for his mentality. I didn't say it was responsible. Is this how you chose your religion, picking and choosing what to believe?
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My faith? That’s an assumption on your part.
  
  Anyway if you're simply saying religious belief could have contributed to his mental state that’s the same as saying his age could have contributed, his IQ could have, his educational background could have, a T.V program could have, the music he listened to could have, where he lived could have, the school he went to could have, his first grade teacher could have etc. You get the idea.
  
  It's the same as saying anything could contribute to this man’s mental state. That's a tautology, i.e. it's obvious to the point of insignificance. So either you’re saying religious belief caused this man’s mental state, which is a fallacy; Or You’re saying anything could have contributed to his mental state, which is so obvious it's insignificant. If it's the former, then your argument is invalid, if it's the latter, then I'm guessing everyone knew that already, so what's your point?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you religious or not?
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that relevant? If so, why? I'm pointing out that your argument is at worst a logical fallacy, and at best needs to be so diluted it doesn't say anything much. Either that criticism is fair and reasonable, or it isn't.
  
  In other words whether I'm religious or not is irrelevant. Your implied argument says nothing about religion, religious belief and people who hold religious beliefs. In the original post you asked for comments. Well that's my comment.
  
  So if you are not suggesting religious belief caused this person to kill but are just suggesting it could be a contributory factor to his mental state, then the original criticism still stands: anything in that man's life could be a contributing factor to his mental state which tells us exactly nothing, so what is your point?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I like that
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you so offensive that the cop killer believed he was Jesus, because you believe in Jesus also and you are mad you have the mind of a cop killer? Whether you are religious or not is very relevant. If you are religious, you aren't using logic, you are making defensive faith protected comments to protect Jesus.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Again the motive for the criticism, or the characteristics of the person making it has nothing to do with the validity of the criticism. Suggesting otherwise is in fact another form of logical fallacy known as argumentum ad hominem (ad hominem argument). In Latin it literally means "argument toward the person". Where the validity of an argument is (incorrectly) linked to the characteristics and beliefs of the person making it. So the criticism still stands. If you think it unreasonable, by all means demonstrate that by addressing the criticism not the criticizer.
  
  I'm criticising your argument that religious belief could have contributed to this man's mental state on the grounds that it is point-less. It is devoid of a point. It is point-deficient. Point-challenged. The point is missing. You get the idea.
  
  It's like saying his personality could have played a part. We know, but what are you concluding from that? Is there a valid point you are trying to make? If so what is it?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The point is, people do irrational things when they have irrational beliefs. I think people with more faith based belief have a higher chance to snap than a person that is more logical.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So are you saying that he was an atheist?
  
  He could have very well been. Or someone without any faith. Last May he thought he was the beast.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well he believed in God, and the Devil so he couldn't be an Atheist, and he couldn't be Jesus since he's now dead. So I guess that leave's us with disturbed deranged angry person, who apparently had an issue with policemen and the law.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on Scott! You have cut to the chase. That is the most accurate and honest statement I have seen on the matter so far.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He didn't say he was an atheist. Just because someone doesn't have faith in God doesn't mean they still can't have irrational beliefs. Someone could have faith that aliens are guiding them and do something irrational. There is one thing possibly certain, if he was logical at the moment he killed the cops, he wouldn't have killed the cops.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with Valerie F, but I think you've missed the point of the argument Valerie makes. Logical/illogical does not equate to "good"/"bad". Not because everyone can have a "different sense of logic" (that's impossible) but because the "goodness" or "badness" of a conclusion has nothing to do with its logical validity. A conclusion can be perfectly valid in terms of logical form but "bad" in terms of cultural/social acceptability.
  
  Also irrational behaviour does not equate to "bad" behaviour. Irrational and "bad" are not synonymous. That's a false assumption. There are instances of irrational behaviour that result in a positive outcome. E.g. when someone acts against all the odds and despite evidence that points to a negative outcome, succeeds. Tales of determination, heroism etc are essentially examples of irrational behaviour that have led to positive outcomes.
  
  So the argument that logical validity/invalidity relates to "good"/"bad" behaviour can't be made from this example. And the assumption that irrational behaviour is the same as "bad" behaviour is a false assumption.
  
  The logic behind this man's thought process at the time can't be determined. All that can be said is that it led to negative behaviour and the tragic death of four police officers. My point is that saying that doesn't say anything at all about religion, belief or people who hold religious beliefs. It just says something about a man. For it to say any more than that you would yourself need to break the bounds of logic and enter the realm of the irrational.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That same article also says this,
  
  "At the time of his arrest, Clemmons "told the officer President Obama and Lebron James are his brothers, Oprah (Winfrey) is his sister and referred to himself as ‘the beast,’" the forensic report said."
  
  Then the article says this,
  
  "Two psychologists from Western State Hospital conducted the evaluation and concluded: "He presents with increased risk for future dangerous behavior and for committing future criminal acts jeopardizing public safety and security," the News-Tribune said
  
  But he was released from jail after posting bail with the assistance of Jail Sucks Bail Bonds."
  
  What is Jail Sucks Bail Bonds?
  
  It is very obvious that Clemmons should not have been released into the public after his May arrest. Clearly a very disturbed individual.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Mike for doing the follow up on this story that the infidels neglected to do in case it spoilt their slander party.
  
  I just checked the next page to your post (this one) and guess what.... none of the normal suspects bothered to even comment on the whole story....
  
  Just another pathetic attempt by the spaghetti monster fools brigade to stop any intelligent discussion or debate.
  
  What a bunch of self basters....
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, same old, same old eh aguasilver.
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  James Agbogunposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I once knew a man who said he could see the spirit of dead men, only to discover he breaths in more smoke from ganja than free air.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously his statements are contrary to his actions. Either an extreme hypocrite or a mentally deranged killer. My bet is on a deranged killer.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who isn't or hasn't been a hypocrite before?
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point but taking your hypocrisy to the extreme such as out and out murder is far beyond a belief and is more in line with mental illness or at the very least zealot behavior which I think is a form of mental deficiency as well. Besides this guy had a history of acting out before any claims of religious fervor.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who doesn't have the capability to lose all logic and kill someone at a moments notice if they snapped? I think any logical mind has the ability of insanity to snap, no matter what their personal history. You are right that he had a violent history, I don't think it could be ruled out he didn't have irrational beliefs before as he does now.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree and there have been many heinous acts committed in the name of religion. I don't think this is a good case to cite in this type of argument.
  
  Perhaps Jim Jones and the Jonestown murders or David Koresh of Waco, Texas are better examples of killers masquerading as Jesus. They had followers and more of a network to enforce it. Were they out and out killers or did their mental condition play a more important role in their actions?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think Jim Jones along with the guy in my example are one of the same in the fact that both didn't use a logical mind along with Jones believers. I don't know how horrible of people they were, they had to have a pretty good deception to gain followers. Maybe they had logical minds in one area and believed an insane faith in the other area of thought.
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  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if we ever will.
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  zampanoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe he argued too much with Mark Knowles...
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
And was he?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He had faith he was.
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sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago
No! He was an Australian Marine.
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topgunjagerposted 14 years ago
how do you guys know he's not jesus?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logic
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Logic? oh, you're evil=)
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol So are you
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's funny!
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  Presigoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The answer is obvious, Jesus cannot sin
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Separatism through belief is a sin. It's separatist.
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  Presigoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Curious, in what way or context is seperatism a sin ?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That it favors one belief over the other with promises of rewards for having the most faith. I don't believe I am favored for my belief. I don't separate myself to think I am favored over others for believing what I believe.
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  Google Galposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  he could be , heck idunno
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  Krystal Blueposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Common sense.
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Pearldiverposted 14 years ago
It's amazing that the BC Old Testament teachings are not used more often in defence of such actions!

How did you know that Earnest walks on water????
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have faith that Earnest walks on water because I seen him do it. Well, actually I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that heard about someone seeing him do it.
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe!!! I don't know why but I just do, and you are all wrong!!!
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
New Question. How would you reason with someone that has absolute faith that they are Jesus? Would logic work?
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you can't, just sit back, watch and have fun=)
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, it's not fun when they go on shooting rampages or start cults.
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  topgunjagerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it will be if you drop em off at sneak's house=)
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol I'm guessing you are sneak?
  
  If you seriously had to reason with a buddy that thought he was Jesus, how would you reason with him?
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No but a sawed off Remington twelve gauge in his face might do the trick...
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  Pr0metheusposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't work on people who have absolute faith that Jesus is everyone's path to god, why would it work on someone who thought he was Jesus?
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  mobilephone guideposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  kill them, then see if they resurrect. works hundred percent.
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h.a.borcichposted 14 years ago
If I encountered someone who claimed they were Jesus,,,I would be very concerned they suffered from mental illness, and try to get them help. Just my humble opinion, Holly
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think they would believe you or believe what they wanted to believe?
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  h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Marine,
  
  I decline speculating further as I see this "what if" question leading to a "logical/belief/proof" discussion that goes nowhere. I answered the question as best I could.
  Sorry, Holly
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You say you would try to get them help with no explanation. How is that a discussion?
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
The thing is - Any one who has read and understood the bible knows that we are all jesus.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True, but I think some take it more literal or extreme than others.
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
And I see this thread as a case of exploiting the murders to grind an axe against religion.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is the problem with believing in invisible super beings. You see things that are not there.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you can read through B.S. too?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have faith in that God-given gift of logic and the ability it gives me to discern from the preponderance of evidence that Marine will stoop to new lows to make fun of believers.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thats what I saw too, but you left out some names.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, stop crying all the time. I didn't say he was Jesus, he did. Cry to him. I'm simply asking how you would reason with someone who thought they were Jesus. Do you have anything better to do than cry at my forum questions?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All I see is a "god-given" need to feel persecuted.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And fight evil. lol
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would ask him to cure my athletes foot
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Support your assumption with logic. I'm not crying. I actually rather enjoy showing your behavior for what it is, though I certainly won't mind stopping if you stop giving me so much fodder with which to work.
  
  You are the one who posted this thread, invited others to jump on your bandwagon, and made more snide remarks about "faith." How does that not come across as exploiting the deaths of these four cops to further your own agenda?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My agenda? You listen to too much Limbaugh. What is the conspiracy of my agenda?
  
  What was the "snide" remark about faith? How am I expoliting any deaths by asking how you would reason with someone that is convinced they are Jesus? Can you not answer that?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go back to the first page on this thread. Or really to any thread you've ever started on the subject of faith. And quit playing innocent. I'll believe your innocent old me act the day I actually listen to any Rush Limbaugh.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So where did you get your conspiracy theory? What is the hidden agenda of the thread?
  
  You still didn't answer my question on how to convince someone they aren't Jesus.
  
  Are you reading my subconscious?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When have you ever asked an honest question that wasn't a very thinly or even outright, baldfaced attempt at baiting believers?
  
  That being said, Jesus said something to the effect that a person's real character can be judged by his or her behavior. If someone cannot see how their behavior proves they aren't even Christian, let alone Jesus Himself, there isn't anything I can do short of recommending a good psychiatrist to convince them otherwise.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats odd because I thought Jesus taught "you not to judge". Did you forget that part?
  
  How do you bait a believer? Is a believer a fish? So if the guy said he was Jesus and was about to go kill cops, you would tell him to get a psychiatrist? Are you serious?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, it's pretty clear: judge not lest you yourself be judged. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. etc.
  
  I mean, if a person is going to claim to believe the Bible literally, it is a bit rich to be selective about it: especially as the bits they seem to omit (like not judging others) are exactly the bits non-believers can get on board with - something odd going on there.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yet you just did that, too.
  
  Luke 12:57 "Why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right?"
  
  John 7:24 "Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes - you can make the "perfect word of god" say just about anything you want to.
  
  Are you judging justly though?
  
  Looks to me like your need to be persecuted just like baby jesus has taken over.
  
  Is that a sin?
  And I am not judging you unjustly here.
  
  I am just doing what the bible tells me to.
  
  I know you hate it when people do what the bible tells them to.
  
  Sometimes.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The difference is that I would not be defined as a Christian anyway, in evangelical terms; in other words, I believe that it makes no sense to say that God created Man, but then to ignore the fact that the one thing that stands out in humans versus other animals is our enormous capacity for reasoning -- this, to me, has to mean that, if God created us, therefore God wants us to exercise our reason as fully as possible; otherwise it is a contradiction; why creat us with huge brains and then say "Hey, make sure you only use those things in select circumstances."
  
  In other words, my belief in a Bible passage is based on two things:
  - does it stand up to logic, and reason
  - does it jibe with "what is written in my heart" as Paul put it, ie., my sense of right and wrong (embodied in the golden rule).
  How could God ask us to choose faith in something but not to apply these two standards to that thing -- it is just illogical!
  
  So, I have to take each passage and assess it based on these two standards.
  This makes things easier, for a start, because there is so much contradiction in the Bible, if I tried to believe it all I'd go mad (or have to throw out rationality, which, if Christians are to be believed, is given to us by God, given he gave us our brains and bodies)
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, to clarify, by "baiting," I mean deliberately trying to antagonize.
  
  Jesus said for me to not hold anyone to any standard I am not willing to apply to myself. Jesus also encourage people to judge what is right.
  
  And the question you asked was how to convince someone they're not Jesus. Now you're moving the goal posts.
  
  If someone said they were going to kill cops or anyone, I don't care who they claim to be. I'd judge their plans as wrong and take all appropriate measures to stop them.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said 'You will find me under a rock' Maybe more christians could practice that one!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you judge what is right without judging what is wrong?
  
  All appropriate measures? Praying for them or telling them to watch Dr. Phil?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How profound LOL LOL
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prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago
We can be like Jesus, but we are not Jesus
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Speak for yourself. I am Jesus.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I am so sure of my heritage I got it permanently marked on my forearm,

Parousia.

Logos on the other, which for you intellectual Christians, is not only a biblical word but the greek term for logic.
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relacheposted 14 years ago
Nobody's going to be able to ask him about it now,

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412772_suspect01.html
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But the story follows jesus's so closely - exchange shot by cops for nailed to a cross by cops and it reads almost the same - he had to be jesus. Right?
  
  Uncanny............
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Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
Great another nut thinking that they are Jesus. Sorry but nope he ain't Jesus. He's a killer, a rapist, and needs to be put away for a really long time!
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
marine, mark and other bottom feeders in the toilet of life,
remember me when the fire seems exceedingly hot.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOLOLOLOL
  
  Looking forward to it if it means I am nowhere near people like you.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank Jesus.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  bump.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  bump
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you think I will burn with the devil?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get it : doesn't it say "all things shall pass away."? Doesn't that include the processes of hydrocarbon combustion?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It says whatever faith without logic wants it to say. lol
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  Revive@OwnRiskposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Name calling... Yeah, I guess that's a Christian trait.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please.
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
This is the problem, she puts faith before logic. This is where the silly assumptions come from to be defensive and see what she wants to see.
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Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
Morning Marine
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Crazd, good to see you! It is 1:20 pm here.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah well then in that case good afternoon
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
here's the twist. I am the second coming of christ, prove me wrong.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do a divine act through hubpages and I will put faith in you.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I give the orders. deny me and feel my wrath.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not buying it. Make beer flow through my monitor.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  open your eyes and you will see the beer through my holy spirit
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  anycollectionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Would that be with or without using a webcam Sir?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have faith my child, you will see the beer.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said my monitor, I didn't say anything about a holy spirit. You don't follow directions very well. lol
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you ask for beer, i give you beer, holy spirit is for free. you want kebab?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Free? Now I know you are lying. Nothing is for free. The beer was pretty tasty though.
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Does anyone have an answer to how you would reason with someone that believes they are Jesus?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They locked me up, pumped me with drugs and I slept for 3 years. Worked wonders.
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  lorlie6posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who'd you wake up as?
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Call 911 and specify straight jackets. Really. There is no explaining to a delusional mind. It's mental illness. No way out of it without meds and therapy. And, if it's a coverup for some a**hole to do crappy things to people, he deserves a life in a funny farm.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with that. But, how would you tell if he was serious or not?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If he's harmless, not posing a threat to himself/herself or others, then even the police won't get involved. Having talked with delusional people before, I wouldn't waste my breath. It's really that simple for me. I would tell them there is absolutely no evidence that they are such a person, because he already lived and died and that story is over. Even if he's alive today, it's no more than another "Elvis" siting to me.
  
  And then I would walk away.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  P.S. You won't know if he's serious or not. Few people have the ability to see into a person with such accuracy, and I dare say almost no one at all. So don't waste your time pretending you have such a super power. Facts are what's needed, not super powers. Helping a person is not about enabling them to get worse, and pretending to help them by being gentle and "talking through it" is not a wise thing when it's a pretense of mental illness or actually is mental illness.
  
  Once you have to deal with this, you learn. And I plan to put all the bullsh** away as soon as possible. Call their bluff, or admit them to the psych ward.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, I think you could tell on whether they are more logical or faithful. If a person uses logic to make decisions, it would be easy to tell if they were lying about a faith. Are you a psychiatrist?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, but I play one on TV.
  LOL
  
  I've had to deal with friends and family who sometimes go into states of psychosis. NOT PRETTY. You have to be tough as nails, and still get some love into it. The worst part is when they want attention and they play the game. That's when I get play hardball. It's total nonsense. So I have ZERO sympathy for this crap of delusional "Jesus". Call his bluff and put him away. For good, if needed.
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
maybe that was his name :
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Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago
don't do it Marine. the beer will mess up your computer
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Have to take the good with the bad.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well then it was nice chatting with you while it lasted
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Still going. The divine beer has yet to arrive.
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  aaaa so that means he isn't the reincarnation of Jesus?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. He is the devil. Who else would tease a person with divine beer? lol
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  Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is true...
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More beer son?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You trying to get me drunk?
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Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago
Ah, yes, of course. Being Jesus always justifies the rape of a child and murdering another person. It's just so obvious, isn't it??

It's about two steps away from the religion forums, overall.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How is it 2 steps from the religion forum?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even fanatics move in a progressive way. One step leads to another. Just my observation. So many "loving Christians" in the religion forum are all too eager to send anyone who disagrees with them to hell. Rape and murder are just a different form of hell.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I am waiting for a freemasons theory...
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I have met a great many jesus' and a few allahs too. I was one of those people and most of them reside in psych wards. So it should be. Not to say mental illness is an excuse for violence. Psychotic illness is not a cause of violence but that doesnt mean violent people are not psychotic. Violence and psychosis...bad mix, obviously!
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  lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
Yep, had to have been Jesus, he hates cops, they just rain on his parade
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
But you are assuming that Christianity prohibits the use of reason and logic, a rather inaccurate judgment.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think that. I think religion uses faith before logic. I think this is the error that results in blind faith.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't prohibit it, you are right. Not explicitly. Not in the sense of "Thou shalt not use reason and logic."
  
  But, for example, I left off following a Bible-fundamentalist church for the following, logic-based reason:
  
  1) God is supposed to be all-powerful and also all-merciful, and all-compassionate (also true in Islam -- this is what Muslims say five times a day... well, the ones who pray, anyway: most Muslims I have ever known don't seem too interested in religion in any case, to be honest; or politics, for that matter)
  
  2) God will sit by and allow certain (billions of) people to end up in the outer darkness for eternity, complete with wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc. He may not specifically send them there, but he'll allow a situation where they end up there
  
  3) Christians would say God is more merciful than me
  
  4) I wouldn't send ANYONE to an outer darkness, for ETERNITY. It's just too long. I mean, that's a long time...!
  
  5) Therefore, I am more merciful than God.
  
  Well, this is silly. So, that's the problem, for me. Logic is not "prohibited", but I have to forsake it (even if only when thinking about this particular problem)to be a Christian (by which I mean a literalist fundamentalist -- lots of "Christians" out there have different points of view on these things).
  
  -
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, most Christians are not literalist fundamentalists, so you probably should refain from using the term Christian as if the only Christians are fundies.
  
  Furthermore, do you think it's compassionate to forcibly lobotomize people, strip them of their ability to choose, and kidnap them? That is akin to forcing people into Heaven who do not want to go.
  
  I'd suggest reading CS Lewis' The Great Divorce. That the world is full of people who are too comfortable being miserable to even really want happiness proves the idea that some people really do not want eternal happiness isn't all that far-fetched.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your first sentence is right on. I think Christianity can be made to work quite well for people, if you get rid of the fundamentalism, and have a grain of salt to take with some things.
  
  I didn't understand your second paragraph.
  
  I have read some CS Lewis. He's a great read. I think the world is too comfortable with OTHER people being miserable, however; that is a MUCH bigger problem.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The alternative to allowing people to go to Hell is to violate their free will. That's the point of my second paragraph.
  
  The point of CS Lewis' Great Divorce, which is relevant to the points you're trying to make, is that nobody goes to Hell who doesn't choose to be there. We really only have our selves to blame.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where is the assumption? Religion is illogical. Although I am not religious, this is not a personal issue. religion by nature is illogical. It is not a matter of opinion.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  bump.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
I am god, come to the fire
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
God burns you up to an utter end. To assume that He would keep you around for eternity(even if it is miserable) is somewhat arrogant. again.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What does he want to burn me for?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you missed the "arrogant" part?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone answer my question about hydrocarbon combustion yet?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  let me answer your question with a question. Are people composed entirely of hydrogen and carbon?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But "burning" and "fire" -- these things can only exist if not "all things" have passed away. The "outer darkness" thing works much better
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, he wants to burn me for being arrogant which i'm not? Is that you or God judging me arrogant? More judging from the good christian.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, burning doesn't work as a mythic symbol here, does it. I mean, we abhor flesh-and-blood fathers who burn their kids with cigarettes. If you're going to preserve the "compassionate father God" thing, the whole burning thing has to go.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, we could choose to ignore it. But it doesn't mean it will go away. We should praise God that He abolishes sin.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Will He burn me if I don't?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, not for that.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But it doesn't work: all-compassionate, all-powerful, all-merciful God... oops, you annoyed me; here comes my cigarette butt -- why would God play mind games with our need for logical consistency?
  
  No, go for the outer darkness. I mean, at least that's not, well, "burning". Were you ever in a burns ward? Not good.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well for one, its a little deeper than an "annoyance". I wrote a hub on hell. you can check out what the bible says about it and why God "casts them into the lake of fire". Pure burning sulfur by the way.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol Nonsense. And you call me a bad parent for not telling my child he is posessed for having a mind. Is this your idea of raising a child? Tell them they go to hell for thinking?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell that to the boss when you get there. Maybe He will have some mercy on you.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe he will have mercy on you for corrupting little childrens minds from evolving.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You raise a good point. I mean, you know, if an adult wants to believe these things, fine. We can all have a lot of fun debating this stuff on Hubpages. But once you start telling kids this stuff, I think it's time to call social services. The idea that Jesus, you know, the guy that said "suffer the little children to come unto me" would be associated with giving kids nightmares like this -- now we really are talking about demonic actions; totally not cool
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Christianity = Child Abuse.
  
  I am thinking of starting a campaign to make it illegal to have children under the age of 15 pray to jesus.
  
  What do you think?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you will fail at one more thing in life.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That wasn't very charitable, now was it? Imagine Jesus saying that to someone.
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I would expect the vengeful christian mythical god to strike down that sort of person
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are a genuine christian all right.
  
  This is why I jumped at the chance to sign up for your "feed a starving African so you can feel superior," charitable attempt.
  
  Jesus would be proud of you. ...............
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  please mark, you are about to pass though the bowels of a catfish. Don't act hurt, your theatrics are moot.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hurt? I am not hurt. Sorry - whatever gave you that impression?
  
  Oh - you were trying to hurt me by telling me I am a failure? Yes - I got that. That is why I said you are a genuine christian.
  
  Well done. Jesus would be proud of you.
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  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and Dawkins is proud of you too
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  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He does it every time he's losing. No proof, just faith!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, you are the one with no proof. There is enough proof for logical people in the thousands of corresponding sciences you refuse to know about and would rather have an invisible friend less credible than the tooth fairy. You're a riot!
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh blah, earnesthub, how long are you going to fight this losing battle.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  we were not talking about evolution you cheertard.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you so negative? Do you have demons in you?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  recap- how was this rude with all things considered? then you ask what we think.
  
  let me get this strait, you set yourself up, then role on your back like an injured puppy?
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  Bovine Currencyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Carry on Christian
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is circular: I only believe the bits of the Bible which match my common sense. If God created me, he created me (all of us) with common sense. Surely that means he would like us to use it (assuming, of course, that he created us, etc...).
  
  It is not *common sense* that an all-loving God would pitch someone into a lake of fire. I mean, that is *extremely* mean for *anyone* to do, never mind an all-loving God... but this is starting to go in circles.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thats why Jesus stated "you cannot know my ways". I do understand your point, but this subject is actually very deep. I do have a profound biblical and prophetic understanding of the subject if you are interested. It also includes heaven and the true loving nature of God. He actually would love nothing more than to please us and reward us, but He must maintain that no sin will ever enter heaven again- or we will go through it, all over again. This understanding is actually enlightening and answers a lot of questions about the true loving God.
  
  BTW- burning sulfur omits toxic fumes that would put you to sleep. Even in His wrath to the wicked, He is merciful. And, those thrown in are burned up- not burned for eternity.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Got to be said again, how do you KNOW any of this?
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  by using the logical brain that God gifted you and I with. If you believe the bible, you must believe in prophecy- for Jesus stated that He would have these things revealed to the wanting. I believe that- and feel enlightened that I have been shown the truth. I could shoot you an email if you so desire- but it is strictly for YOU and not public ridicule. These guys won't read scripture, but they would read this for personal reasons.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your arrogant psychotic little homophobic god is so small he could walk under carpet!
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ...and yet still, He manages to run the whole of Creation.... amazing, especially when He has such gigantic and superior intellects ranged against his puny little power.
  
  He wrote about the 'spaghetti monster fools society' way before they even left kindergarden to start their glittering careers...
  
  Romans 1:30-32
  
  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
  
  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
  
  How truly Great is our God.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "and the saints shall walk on the ashes of the wicked".
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lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago
jesus hates cops
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He hates cops but like tax-collectors???
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yeah. Very funny. Jesus was probably more like a good cop than anyone else. Let's see: dedicated to protecting and serving, fulfilling rather than abolishing the law, sacrificing his life in the line of duty, that sounds about right.
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Blogging Erikaposted 14 years ago
I'm a very outspoken atheist, but even so - dude was just plain crazy. Religion had nothing to do with it. He could just as easily have received his instructions from the neighbor's dog, or the CIA implants in his molars, or whatever.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
why so whoopity doo because some cops died. As if they are more important than regular citizens?? Most are corrupt anyway. Boo hoo
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
maybe he was jesus, who knows?
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
i think your idea is good mark. let me know if you get something going.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
legally, the case should be easy. politically, might need some work.
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
Go read a dictionary.
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
Jesus called people vipers. injured puppy is within boundaries.
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Bovine Currencyposted 14 years ago
logic and religion are parallel
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
I feel a lot of negative energy in here. lol
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you make the negative energy around you.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol all I do is ask questions. It's not my fault some people are so defensive of their faith.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's still your fault that you emanate negative energy, it's a problem you have, and you encourage it when you feed it.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny. Your defender of faith Valarie was the first one with the negative energy with her conspiracy theories to protect her faith.
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  sooner than laterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, Valarie had an extremely valid point that you failed to notice because you were too busy talking to yourself. again.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you people have such negative energy? All the hell threats possibly?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, give it a rest. You know you love all this negative attention.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I like happy little christians and positive energy.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Great. Might want to try contributing more to that, then.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wanna drink some wine?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not until Christmas. And I'm pouring.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't trust me to pour?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, blame it on non believers that your fellow believer thought he was Jesus and killed 4 cops who had a combined 9 kids. I didnt see a quote where the killer said he was a non believer. Not to mention that your "FELLOW MINISTER GOVERNER MIKE HUCKABEE" is the one that had him released. Did a non believer have him released from jail?
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sooner than laterposted 14 years ago
no- i just wanted to be objective. know anything about that?
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Hard to argue that huh sport?
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marine I won't argue that at all if it's true, and I guess you have researched it so it must be, I'm not here to argue about faith or defend it, God does not need defenders, His word is sufficient.
  
  IF he considered he was a believer and did these things, then he has a mental condition, I don't know his state of mind, neither do you I guess.... maybe he's a combat vet and just lost it when he got back, who knows?
  
  As for the other guy you mentioned, I have nobody to support or not in the USA, for I am English, and we lost our interests in your countries politics long ago!
  
  I just wonder why anyone would gloat over this murder killing people and find the fact that he said he was Jesus worthy of opening a forum to pour scorn on everything 2.5 billion people hold dear.
  
  Does tolerance ONLY extend to your beliefs or lack of them?
  
  Cannot we believers expect the same tolerance that you all demand from us?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Everyone is free to believe what they wish. I find it odd that people get so offensive over a question. I'm not gloating over the cops getting killed. Should the issue be swept under the rug that the killer believed he was Jesus? It was his quote, not mine.
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  chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dont understand where you are goin with this, the fact that he claimed to be Jesus, what does that have to do with the believers?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know. They took it personal. I asked how you would reason with someone to tell them they aren't Jesus and the believers brought negative energy.
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He apparently also said the following, which you did not pick up on:
  
  "That same article also says this,
  
  "At the time of his arrest, Clemmons "told the officer President Obama and Lebron James are his brothers, Oprah (Winfrey) is his sister and referred to himself as ‘the beast,’" the forensic report said."
  
  Then the article says this,
  
  "Two psychologists from Western State Hospital conducted the evaluation and concluded: "He presents with increased risk for future dangerous behavior and for committing future criminal acts jeopardizing public safety and security," the News-Tribune said
  
  But he was released from jail after posting bail with the assistance of Jail Sucks Bail Bonds."
  
  Maybe the forum topic could have been better considered, rather than go for the cheap dig at Christ, guaranteed to bring some Christians into the arena to let the 'lions' loose on.
  
  I though we stopped that when Rome burnt!
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aguasilverposted 14 years ago
This is what 'Jail Sucks Bail Bonds' have to say on the case:

STATEMENT REGARDING THE SHOOTINGS IN LAKEWOOD...

It was with great sadness we learned of the shootings in Lakewood on Sunday morning. I
want to be clear that had we known Clemmons was capable of such a heinous crime we
never would have posted this bond. Almost all the people who work in this office have
previous law enforcement, fire service and/or public safety experience. We would NEVER
purposely put anyone, especially law enforcement into harms way. We had no way of
knowing this monster would commit such crimes.

Clemmons has no felony convictions in the state of Washington that we are aware of, he has
been charged with several crimes; Rape of Child 2nd, Assault 3rd, and several counts of
Malicious Mischief. He was held in July as a Fugitive from Justice (I assume for the Arkansas
matter) but that was dismissed for an unknown reason. We had no knowledge of his criminal
history or convictions in Arkansas. In July he posted bond with another bond company in
Seattle on these same charges. In September he was returned to custody by DOC for a
parole violation (unknown what the violation was). In November he was given a mental health
evaluation by Western State Hospital to evaluate his competency to stand trial. Shortly after
they determined he could, Pierce County set his conditions for release and bail. The other
bond company exonerated him off their bond on November 12th, 2009, we are told for
non-payment or failure to follow contract. We posted bond on November 23rd. As a
requirement of the bond, given the charges and size of the bond, we required Clemmons to
be on a GPS bracelet and to check in weekly and also to have two co-signers and put up a
piece of property as collateral. We met with Clemmons twice during the week of the 23rd,
once when he was released and again on the 24th. Nothing at that time seemed out of the
ordinary. None of the people co-signing for him said anything about his mental status or
previous convictions in Arkansas, which again, we had no knowledge of or really any way of
knowing about. We were also not aware he had been notified that he was facing a life
sentence here in Washington as well, if convicted of the Rape of Child case (the only reason I
am aware of this is from reading a report on it). Had we known this, we would not have
posted this bond. Had we known Clemmons was telling people he was "Jesus" or that the
"world was going to end" soon and to "watch the news", we never would have posted this
bond.

We are working with law enforcement and providing them with any information on this case
they request. We are also working our own information sources for any information we can
provide law enforcement. I pray for the families involved in this tragedy, for the safety of the
community, and for swift and profound justice in this matter.
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
Of course the beauty of it all is that people can stop being wicked if they want. I'd prefer to neither be nor walk upon ashes.
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Why do you people always want someone to burn? Not very nice.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How about reading my post before you "you people" me? I said I'd prefer to neither be nor walk on ashes. That means I don't want anyone to burn. Whether you burn or not, however, is up to you. Not my decision at all.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I knew the "you people" would strike a nerve somewhere. I didn't put you in those "you people" unless you do want me to burn in hell, which isn't very nice. If it's my decision, I don't want to burn. Do I have to believe not to burn?
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Will Apseposted 14 years ago
If religious belief was a symptom of or precursor to insanity we would all be in deep trouble, since the overwhelming majority of the planets people are believers.

The fact that so many people who go crazy think that they are Jesus really is a testimony to the archetypal power of the idea of Jesus.

One of my neighbour's in London thought he was Jesus. The whole family was mad except perhaps for the father who seemed merely mean and cruel. There were 3 children and all were clinically insane as teenagers (schizophrenia) but still pretty sweet kids and surprisingly perceptive. I often had to drive one or other of them to the hospital for medication or admission.

The Jesus boy used to chase people around with a big grin and no clothes to explain that he loved them.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A bit like yourself then Will?
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DogSiDaedposted 14 years ago
If Jesus truly came to earth now, who would believe him?
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60
Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
Actually, someone can be logical and still do horrible things, because logic is only as good as its premises and how conclusions are drawn.
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1. 59
  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol You acknowledge that everyone can have a different sense of logic and belief of truth and you think it's possible for your God to expect the same religious belief of everyone? How is that possible when you admit everyone has a different truth. Is your truth the only logical truth?
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Cop Killer Claims He Was Jesus

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