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Cop Killer Claims He Was Jesus

  1. marinealways24 profile image59
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    "Clemmons, the man suspected of gunning down four police officers at a coffee shop on Sunday, had been charged with assaulting a police officer and raping a child, and investigators in the sex case said he was motivated by visions that he was Jesus Christ and that the world was on the verge of the apocalypse." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,578285,00.html


    Comments

    1. Ken R. Abell profile image85
      Ken R. Abellposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I can believe my belly button is going start spewing out gold coins, but my belief does not make it so.  No rush to the bank for me.

      My point is that people are free to "believe" or free to say they believe anything they want, but saying, does not make it so.

      Personally, I think the guy was looney tunes crazy.  Maybe the whole Jesus & apocalypse stuff was him laying the groundwork for an insanity defense, which of course, will now not be necessary since the cops shot him dead.

    2. pylos26 profile image77
      pylos26posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      The only prerequisite is his footware...sandals i presume.

    3. Google Gal profile image59
      Google Galposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Sounds like meth to me

    4. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      So what. I can say I am an eggplant, or a sex god. Does it make me one? (Well, I am a sex god)

      1. Bovine Currency profile image60
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I am an eggplant and a sex god

    5. ledefensetech profile image79
      ledefensetechposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's just a scumbag trying to get himself set up for an insanity defense.

    6. waynet profile image51
      waynetposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And fellow hubbers, this is what the hubpages religious debates in the forum can do to you...let that be a lesson to all the religious thread starters!!

    7. Don W profile image83
      Don Wposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Are you implying that religious belief caused this man to rape a child and murder four police officers in cold blood?

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        It could have. He seems to think it did in the news quote.

        1. Don W profile image83
          Don Wposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          So based on that your implied argument is:

          Person p holds a religious belief.
          p commits rape and murder.
          Therefore religious belief caused p to commit rape and murder.

          Can you see the problem with that argument?

          1. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Yes! You are making assumptions to protect your faith! I said his belief could have been responsible for his mentality. I didn't say it was responsible.  Is this how you chose your religion, picking and choosing what to believe?

            1. Don W profile image83
              Don Wposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              My faith? That’s an assumption on your part.

              Anyway if you're simply saying religious belief could have contributed to his mental state that’s the same as saying his age could have contributed, his IQ could have, his educational background could have, a T.V program could have, the music he listened to could have, where he lived could have, the school he went to could have, his first grade teacher could have etc. You get the idea.

              It's the same as saying anything could contribute to this man’s mental state. That's a tautology, i.e. it's obvious to the point of insignificance. So either you’re saying religious belief caused this man’s mental state, which is a fallacy; Or You’re saying anything could have contributed to his mental state, which is so obvious it's insignificant. If it's the former, then your argument is invalid, if it's the latter, then I'm guessing everyone knew that already, so what's your point?

              1. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Are you religious or not?

                1. Don W profile image83
                  Don Wposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Is that relevant? If so, why? I'm pointing out that your argument is at worst a logical fallacy, and at best needs to be so diluted it doesn't say anything much. Either that criticism is fair and reasonable, or it isn't.

                  In other words whether I'm religious or not is irrelevant. Your implied argument says nothing about religion, religious belief and people who hold religious beliefs. In the original post you asked for comments. Well that's my comment.

                  So if you are not suggesting religious belief caused this person to kill but are just suggesting it could be a contributory factor to his mental state, then the original criticism still stands: anything in that man's life could be a contributing factor to his mental state which tells us exactly nothing, so what is your point?

                  1. Bovine Currency profile image60
                    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                        I like that smile

                  2. marinealways24 profile image59
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Why are you so offensive that the cop killer believed he was Jesus, because you believe in Jesus also and you are mad you have the mind of a cop killer? Whether you are religious or not is very relevant. If you are religious, you aren't using logic, you are making defensive faith protected comments to protect Jesus.

    8. Make  Money profile image73
      Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That same article also says this,

      "At the time of his arrest, Clemmons "told the officer President Obama and Lebron James are his brothers, Oprah (Winfrey) is his sister and referred to himself as ‘the beast,’" the forensic report said."

      Then the article says this,

      "Two psychologists from Western State Hospital conducted the evaluation and concluded: "He presents with increased risk for future dangerous behavior and for committing future criminal acts jeopardizing public safety and security," the News-Tribune said

      But he was released from jail after posting bail with the assistance of Jail Sucks Bail Bonds."

      What is Jail Sucks Bail Bonds?

      It is very obvious that Clemmons should not have been released into the public after his May arrest.  Clearly a very disturbed individual.

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks Mike for doing the follow up on this story that the infidels neglected to do in case it spoilt their slander party.

        I just checked the next page to your post (this one) and guess what.... none of the normal suspects bothered to even comment on the whole story....

        Just another pathetic attempt by the spaghetti monster fools brigade to stop any intelligent discussion or debate.

        What a bunch of self basters....

        1. Make  Money profile image73
          Make Moneyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yep, same old, same old eh aguasilver.

    9. James Agbogun profile image74
      James Agbogunposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I once knew a man who said he could see the spirit of dead men, only to discover he breaths in more smoke from ganja than free air.

    10. rhamson profile image76
      rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Obviously his statements are contrary to his actions.  Either an extreme hypocrite or a mentally deranged killer.  My bet is on a deranged killer.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Who isn't or hasn't been a hypocrite before?

        1. rhamson profile image76
          rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Good point but taking your hypocrisy to the extreme such as out and out murder is far beyond a belief and is more in line with mental illness or at the very least zealot behavior which I think is a form of mental deficiency as well.  Besides this guy had a history of acting out before any claims of religious fervor.

          1. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Who doesn't have the capability to lose all logic and kill someone at a moments notice if they snapped? I think any logical mind has the ability of insanity to snap, no matter what their personal history. You are right that he had a violent history, I don't think it could be ruled out he didn't have irrational beliefs before as he does now.

            1. rhamson profile image76
              rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I agree and there have been many heinous acts committed in the name of religion.  I don't think this is a good case to cite in this type of argument. 

              Perhaps Jim Jones and the Jonestown murders or David Koresh of Waco, Texas are better examples of killers masquerading as Jesus.  They had followers and more of a network to enforce it. Were they out and out killers or did their mental condition play a more important role in their actions?

              1. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I think Jim Jones along with the guy in my example are one of the same in the fact that both didn't use a logical mind along with Jones believers. I don't know how horrible of people they were, they had to have a pretty good deception to gain followers. Maybe they had logical minds in one area and believed an insane faith in the other area of thought.

                1. rhamson profile image76
                  rhamsonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I don't know if we ever will.

    11. profile image0
      zampanoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Maybe he argued too much with Mark Knowles...

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol

  2. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    And was he? smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      He had faith he was.

  3. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 7 years ago

    No! He was an Australian Marine.

  4. topgunjager profile image61
    topgunjagerposted 7 years ago

    how do you guys know he's not jesus?

    1. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Logic

      1. topgunjager profile image61
        topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Logic? oh, you're evil=)

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          lol So are you

      2. Bovine Currency profile image60
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        that's funny! big_smile

      3. Presigo profile image61
        Presigoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The answer is obvious, Jesus cannot sin

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Separatism through belief is a sin. It's separatist.

          1. Presigo profile image61
            Presigoposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Curious, in what way or context is seperatism a sin ?

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              That it favors one belief over the other with promises of rewards for having the most faith. I don't believe I am favored for my belief. I don't separate myself to think I am favored over others for believing what I believe.

    2. Google Gal profile image59
      Google Galposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      he could be , heck idunno

    3. Krystal Blue profile image59
      Krystal Blueposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Common sense.

  5. Pearldiver profile image87
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    It's amazing that the BC Old Testament teachings are not used more often in defence of such actions! hmm

    How did you know that Earnest walks on water???? yikes

    1. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I have faith that Earnest walks on water because I seen him do it. Well, actually I heard from a friend of a friend of a friend that heard about someone seeing him do it.

      1. topgunjager profile image61
        topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I believe!!! I don't know why but I just do, and you are all wrong!!!

  6. marinealways24 profile image59
    marinealways24posted 7 years ago

    New Question. How would you reason with someone that has absolute faith that they are Jesus? Would logic work?

    1. topgunjager profile image61
      topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      you can't, just sit back, watch and have fun=)

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Lol, it's not fun when they go on shooting rampages or start cults.

        1. topgunjager profile image61
          topgunjagerposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          it will be if you drop em off at sneak's house=)

          1. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            lol I'm guessing you are sneak?

            If you seriously had to reason with a buddy that thought he was Jesus, how would you reason with him?

    2. cheaptrick profile image72
      cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      No but a sawed off Remington twelve gauge in his face might do the trick...

    3. Pr0metheus profile image59
      Pr0metheusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It doesn't work on people who have absolute faith that Jesus is everyone's path to god, why would it work on someone who thought he was Jesus?

    4. mobilephone guide profile image60
      mobilephone guideposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      kill them, then see if they resurrect. works hundred percent.

  7. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 7 years ago

    If I encountered someone who claimed they were Jesus,,,I would be very concerned they suffered from mental illness, and try to get them help. Just my humble opinion, Holly

    1. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Do you think they would believe you or believe what they wanted to believe?

      1. h.a.borcich profile image60
        h.a.borcichposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hi Marine,

          I decline speculating further as I see this "what if" question leading to a "logical/belief/proof" discussion that goes nowhere. I answered the question as best I could.
          Sorry, Holly

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          You say you would try to get them help with no explanation. How is that a discussion?

  8. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago

    The thing is - Any one who has read and understood the bible knows that we are all jesus. wink

    1. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      True, but I think some take it more literal or extreme than others.

  9. Valerie F profile image60
    Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

    And I see this thread as a case of exploiting the murders to grind an axe against religion.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That is the problem with believing in invisible super beings. You see things that are not there. wink

    2. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      you can read through B.S. too?

      1. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I have faith in that God-given gift of logic and the ability it gives me to discern from the preponderance of evidence that Marine will stoop to new lows to make fun of believers.

        1. sooner than later profile image60
          sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          thats what I saw too, but you left out some names.

        2. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Oh, stop crying all the time. I didn't say he was Jesus, he did. Cry to him. I'm simply asking how you would reason with someone who thought they were Jesus. Do you have anything better to do than cry at my forum questions?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            All I see is a "god-given" need to feel persecuted. wink

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              And fight evil. lol

          2. Bovine Currency profile image60
            Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I would ask him to cure my athletes foot

          3. Valerie F profile image60
            Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Support your assumption with logic. I'm not crying. I actually rather enjoy showing your behavior for what it is, though I certainly won't mind stopping if you stop giving me so much fodder with which to work.

            You are the one who posted this thread, invited others to jump on your bandwagon, and made more snide remarks about "faith." How does that not come across as exploiting the deaths of these four cops to further your own agenda?

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              My agenda? You listen to too much Limbaugh. lol What is the conspiracy of my agenda?

              What was the "snide" remark about faith? How am I expoliting any deaths by asking how you would reason with someone that is convinced they are Jesus? Can you not answer that?

              1. Valerie F profile image60
                Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Go back to the first page on this thread. Or really to any thread you've ever started on the subject of faith. And quit playing innocent. I'll believe your innocent old me act the day I actually listen to any Rush Limbaugh.

                1. marinealways24 profile image59
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  So where did you get your conspiracy theory? What is the hidden agenda of the thread?

                  You still didn't answer my question on how to convince someone they aren't Jesus.

                  Are you reading my subconscious?

                  1. Valerie F profile image60
                    Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    When have you ever asked an honest question that wasn't a very thinly or even outright, baldfaced attempt at baiting believers?

                    That being said, Jesus said something to the effect that a person's real character can be judged by his or her behavior. If someone cannot see how their behavior proves they aren't even Christian, let alone Jesus Himself, there isn't anything I can do short of recommending a good psychiatrist to convince them otherwise.

        3. Bovine Currency profile image60
          Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          How profound LOL LOL big_smile

  10. prettydarkhorse profile image61
    prettydarkhorseposted 7 years ago

    We can be like Jesus, but we are not Jesus

    1. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Speak for yourself.  I am Jesus.

  11. Bovine Currency profile image60
    Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

    I am so sure of my heritage I got it permanently marked on my forearm,

    Parousia.

    Logos on the other, which for you intellectual Christians, is not only a biblical word but the greek term for logic.

  12. relache profile image87
    relacheposted 7 years ago

    Nobody's going to be able to ask him about it now,

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/412772_suspect01.html

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      But the story follows jesus's so closely  - exchange shot by cops for nailed to a cross by cops and it reads almost the same - he had to be jesus. Right?

      Uncanny............

  13. profile image0
    Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

    Great another nut thinking that they are Jesus. Sorry but nope he ain't Jesus. He's a killer, a rapist, and needs to be put away for a really long time!

  14. sooner than later profile image60
    sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

    marine, mark and other bottom feeders in the toilet of life,
    remember me when the fire seems exceedingly hot.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      LOLOLOLOLOLOL

      Looking forward to it if it means I am nowhere near people like you. wink

      1. sooner than later profile image60
        sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thank Jesus. big_smile

    2. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      bump.

      1. sooner than later profile image60
        sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        bump

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do you think I will burn with the devil?

          1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I don't get it : doesn't it say "all things shall pass away."? Doesn't that include the processes of hydrocarbon combustion?

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It says whatever faith without logic wants it to say. lol

        2. profile image0
          Revive@OwnRiskposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Name calling... Yeah, I guess that's a Christian trait.

          1. sooner than later profile image60
            sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Please. smile

    3. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago

      This is the problem, she puts faith before logic. This is where the silly assumptions come from to be defensive and see what she wants to see.

    4. profile image0
      Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

      Morning Marine

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Hello Crazd, good to see you! It is 1:20 pm here.

        1. profile image0
          Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Ah well then in that case good afternoon big_smile

    5. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      here's the twist.  I am the second coming of christ, prove me wrong.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Do a divine act through hubpages and I will put faith in you.

        1. Bovine Currency profile image60
          Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I give the orders. deny me and feel my wrath.

          1. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Not buying it. Make beer flow through my monitor.

            1. Bovine Currency profile image60
              Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              open your eyes and you will see the beer through my holy spirit

              1. anycollection profile image60
                anycollectionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Would that be with or without using a webcam Sir?

                1. Bovine Currency profile image60
                  Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Have faith my child, you will see the beer.

              2. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I said my monitor, I didn't say anything about a holy spirit. You don't follow directions very well. lol

                1. Bovine Currency profile image60
                  Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  you ask for beer, i give you beer, holy spirit is for free.  you want kebab?

                  1. marinealways24 profile image59
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Free? Now I know you are lying. Nothing is for free. The beer was pretty tasty though.

    6. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago

      Does anyone have an answer to how you would reason with someone that believes they are Jesus?

      1. Bovine Currency profile image60
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        They locked me up, pumped me with drugs and I slept for 3 years.  Worked wonders.

        1. lorlie6 profile image85
          lorlie6posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Who'd you wake up as?

          1. profile image0
            lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            lol

      2. Daniel Carter profile image92
        Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Call 911 and specify straight jackets. Really. There is no explaining to a delusional mind. It's mental illness. No way out of it without meds and therapy. And, if it's a coverup for some a**hole to do crappy things to people, he deserves a life in a funny farm.

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with that. But, how would you tell if he was serious or not?

          1. Daniel Carter profile image92
            Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            If he's harmless, not posing a threat to himself/herself or others, then even the police won't get involved. Having talked with delusional people before, I wouldn't waste my breath. It's really that simple for me. I would tell them there is absolutely no evidence that they are such a person, because he already lived and died and that story is over. Even if he's alive today, it's no more than another "Elvis" siting to me.

            And then I would walk away.

            1. Daniel Carter profile image92
              Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              P.S. You won't know if he's serious or not. Few people have the ability to see into a person with such accuracy, and I dare say almost no one at all. So don't waste your time pretending you have such a super power. Facts are what's needed, not super powers. Helping a person is not about enabling them to get worse, and pretending to help them by being gentle and "talking through it" is not a wise thing when it's a pretense of mental illness or actually is mental illness.

              Once you have to deal with this, you learn. And I plan to put all the bullsh** away as soon as possible. Call their bluff, or admit them to the psych ward.

              1. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Ah, I think you could tell on whether they are more logical or faithful. If a person uses logic to make decisions, it would be easy to tell if they were lying about a faith. Are you a psychiatrist?

                1. Daniel Carter profile image92
                  Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  No, but I play one on TV.
                  LOL

                  I've had to deal with friends and family who sometimes go into states of psychosis. NOT PRETTY. You have to be tough as nails, and still get some love into it. The worst part is when they want attention and they play the game. That's when I get play hardball. It's total nonsense. So I have ZERO sympathy for this crap of delusional "Jesus". Call his bluff and put him away. For good, if needed.

    7. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

      maybe that was his name hmm:

    8. profile image0
      Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

      don't do it Marine. the beer will mess up your computer lol tongue

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Have to take the good with the bad. lol

        1. profile image0
          Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          well then it was nice chatting with you while it lasted lol

          1. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Still going. The divine beer has yet to arrive.

            1. profile image0
              Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              aaaa so that means he isn't the reincarnation of Jesus?

              1. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Nope. He is the devil. Who else would tease a person with divine beer? lol

                1. profile image0
                  Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  lol this is true...

            2. Bovine Currency profile image60
              Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              More beer son?

              1. marinealways24 profile image59
                marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                You trying to get me drunk?

    9. Daniel Carter profile image92
      Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago

      Ah, yes, of course. Being Jesus always justifies the rape of a child and murdering another person. It's just so obvious, isn't it??

      It's about two steps away from the religion forums, overall.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        How is it 2 steps from the religion forum?

        1. Daniel Carter profile image92
          Daniel Carterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Even fanatics move in a progressive way. One step leads to another. Just my observation. So many "loving Christians" in the religion forum are all too eager to send anyone who disagrees with them to hell. Rape and murder are just a different form of hell.

    10. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      I am waiting for a freemasons theory...

    11. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      I have met a great many jesus' and a few allahs too.  I was one of those people and most of them reside in psych wards.  So it should be.  Not to say mental illness is an excuse for violence.  Psychotic illness is not a cause of violence but that doesnt mean violent people are not psychotic.  Violence and psychosis...bad mix, obviously!

      1. profile image0
        lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile

    12. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

      Yep, had to have been Jesus, he hates cops, they just rain on his parade lol

    13. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

      But you are assuming that Christianity prohibits the use of reason and logic, a rather inaccurate judgment.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think that. I think religion uses faith before logic. I think this is the error that results in blind faith.

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It doesn't prohibit it, you are right. Not explicitly. Not in the sense of "Thou shalt not use reason and logic."

          But, for example, I left off following a Bible-fundamentalist church for the following, logic-based reason:

          1) God is supposed to be all-powerful and also all-merciful, and all-compassionate (also true in Islam -- this is what Muslims say five times a day... well, the ones who pray, anyway: most Muslims I have ever known don't seem too interested in religion in any case, to be honest; or politics, for that matter)

          2) God will sit by and allow certain (billions of) people to end up in the outer darkness for eternity, complete with wailing and gnashing of teeth, etc. He may not specifically send them there, but he'll allow a situation where they end up there

          3) Christians would say God is more merciful than me

          4) I wouldn't send ANYONE to an outer darkness, for ETERNITY. It's just too long. I mean, that's a long time...!

          5) Therefore, I am more merciful than God.

          Well, this is silly. So, that's the problem, for me. Logic is not "prohibited", but I have to forsake it (even if only when thinking about this particular problem)to be a Christian (by which I mean a literalist fundamentalist -- lots of "Christians" out there have different points of view on these things).

          -

          1. Valerie F profile image60
            Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Well, most Christians are not literalist fundamentalists, so you probably should refain from using the term Christian as if the only Christians are fundies.

            Furthermore, do you think it's compassionate to forcibly lobotomize people, strip them of their ability to choose, and kidnap them? That is akin to forcing people into Heaven who do not want to go.

            I'd suggest reading CS Lewis' The Great Divorce. That the world is full of people who are too comfortable being miserable to even really want happiness proves the idea that some people really do not want eternal happiness isn't all that far-fetched.

            1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
              AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Your first sentence is right on. I think Christianity can be made to work quite well for people, if you get rid of the fundamentalism, and have a grain of salt to take with some things.

              I didn't understand your second paragraph.

              I have read some CS Lewis. He's a great read. I think the world is too comfortable with OTHER people being miserable, however; that is a MUCH bigger problem.

              1. Valerie F profile image60
                Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                The alternative to allowing people to go to Hell is to violate their free will. That's the point of my second paragraph.

                The point of CS Lewis' Great Divorce, which is relevant to the points you're trying to make, is that nobody goes to Hell who doesn't choose to be there. We really only have our selves to blame.

      2. Bovine Currency profile image60
        Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Where is the assumption?  Religion is illogical.  Although I am not religious, this is not a personal issue.  religion by nature is illogical.  It is not a matter of opinion.

        1. Bovine Currency profile image60
          Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          bump.

    14. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      I am god, come to the fire tongue

    15. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

      God burns you up to an utter end. To assume that He would keep you around for eternity(even if it is miserable) is somewhat arrogant. again.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        What does he want to burn me for?

        1. sooner than later profile image60
          sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          you missed the "arrogant" part?

          1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Anyone answer my question about hydrocarbon combustion yet?

            1. sooner than later profile image60
              sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              let me answer your question with a question. Are people composed entirely of hydrogen and carbon?

              1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
                AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                But "burning" and "fire" -- these things can only exist if not "all things" have passed away. The "outer darkness" thing works much better

          2. marinealways24 profile image59
            marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            So, he wants to burn me for being arrogant which i'm not? Is that you or God judging me arrogant? More judging from the good christian.

        2. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          No, burning doesn't work as a mythic symbol here, does it. I mean, we abhor flesh-and-blood fathers who burn their kids with cigarettes. If you're going to preserve the "compassionate father God" thing, the whole burning thing has to go.

          1. sooner than later profile image60
            sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            well, we could choose to ignore it. But it doesn't mean it will go away. We should praise God that He abolishes sin.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Will He burn me if I don't?

              1. sooner than later profile image60
                sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No, not for that.

              2. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
                AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                But it doesn't work: all-compassionate, all-powerful, all-merciful God... oops, you annoyed me; here comes my cigarette butt -- why would God play mind games with our need for logical consistency?

                No, go for the outer darkness. I mean, at least that's not, well, "burning". Were you ever in a burns ward? Not good.

                1. sooner than later profile image60
                  sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  well for one, its a little deeper than an "annoyance". I wrote a hub on hell. you can check out what the bible says about it and why God "casts them into the lake of fire". Pure burning sulfur by the way.

                  1. marinealways24 profile image59
                    marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    lol Nonsense. And you call me a bad parent for not telling my child he is posessed for having a mind. Is this your idea of raising a child? Tell them they go to hell for thinking?

                    1. sooner than later profile image60
                      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      Tell that to the boss when you get there. Maybe He will have some mercy on you.

                  2. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
                    AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    This is circular: I only believe the bits of the Bible which match my common sense. If God created me, he created me (all of us) with common sense. Surely that means he would like us to use it (assuming, of course, that he created us, etc...).

                    It is not *common sense* that an all-loving God would pitch someone into a lake of fire. I mean, that is *extremely* mean for *anyone* to do, never mind an all-loving God... but this is starting to go in circles.

                    1. sooner than later profile image60
                      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      thats why Jesus stated "you cannot know my ways". I do understand your point, but this subject is actually very deep. I do have a profound biblical and prophetic understanding of the subject if you are interested. It also includes heaven and the true loving nature of God. He actually would love nothing more than to please us and reward us, but He must maintain that no sin will ever enter heaven again- or we will go through it, all over again. This understanding is actually enlightening and answers a lot of questions about the true loving God.

                      BTW- burning sulfur omits toxic fumes that would put you to sleep. Even in His wrath to the wicked, He is merciful. And, those thrown in are burned up- not burned for eternity.

      2. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Your arrogant psychotic little homophobic god is so small he could walk under carpet! lol

        1. aguasilver profile image87
          aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          ...and yet still, He manages to run the whole of Creation.... amazing, especially when He has such gigantic and superior intellects ranged against his puny little power.

          He wrote about the 'spaghetti monster fools society' way before they even left kindergarden to start their glittering careers...

          Romans 1:30-32

          Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

          Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


          How truly Great is our God.

        2. sooner than later profile image60
          sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          "and the saints shall walk on the ashes of the wicked".

    16. profile image0
      lyricsingrayposted 7 years ago

      jesus hates cops lol

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image72
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        He hates cops but like tax-collectors???

      2. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Oh yeah. Very funny. Jesus was probably more like a good cop than anyone else. Let's see: dedicated to protecting and serving, fulfilling rather than abolishing the law, sacrificing his life in the line of duty, that sounds about right.

    17. Blogging Erika profile image72
      Blogging Erikaposted 7 years ago

      I'm a very outspoken atheist, but even so - dude was just plain crazy.  Religion had nothing to do with it.  He could just as easily have received his instructions from the neighbor's dog, or the CIA implants in his molars, or whatever.

    18. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      why so whoopity doo because some cops died.  As if they are more important than regular citizens??  Most are corrupt anyway.  Boo hoo tongue

    19. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      maybe he was jesus, who knows?

    20. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      i think your idea is good mark.  let me know if you get something going.

    21. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      legally, the case should be easy.  politically, might need some work.

    22. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

      Go read a dictionary.

    23. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

      Jesus called people vipers. injured puppy is within boundaries.

    24. Bovine Currency profile image60
      Bovine Currencyposted 7 years ago

      logic and religion are parallel

    25. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago

      I feel a lot of negative energy in here. lol

      1. chambersgirl21 profile image61
        chambersgirl21posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I think you make the negative energy around you. wink

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          lol all I do is ask questions. It's not my fault some people are so defensive of their faith.

          1. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It's still your fault that you emanate negative energy, it's a problem you have, and you encourage it when you feed it. wink

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Funny. Your defender of faith Valarie was the first one with the negative energy with her conspiracy theories to protect her faith.

              1. sooner than later profile image60
                sooner than laterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                No, Valarie had an extremely valid point that you failed to notice because you were too busy talking to yourself. again.

                1. marinealways24 profile image59
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Why do you people have such negative energy? All the hell threats possibly?

                  1. Valerie F profile image60
                    Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Oh, give it a rest. You know you love all this negative attention.

                    1. marinealways24 profile image59
                      marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                      No, I like happy little christians and positive energy.

              2. aguasilver profile image87
                aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this
                1. marinealways24 profile image59
                  marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Yes, blame it on non believers that your fellow believer thought he was Jesus and killed 4 cops who had a combined 9 kids. I didnt see a quote where the killer said he was a non believer. Not to mention that your "FELLOW MINISTER GOVERNER MIKE HUCKABEE" is the one that had him released. Did a non believer have him released from jail?

    26. sooner than later profile image60
      sooner than laterposted 7 years ago

      no- i just wanted to be objective. know anything about that? smile

    27. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago

      Hard to argue that huh sport?

      1. aguasilver profile image87
        aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Marine I won't argue that at all if it's true, and I guess you have researched it so it must be, I'm not here to argue about faith or defend it, God does not need defenders, His word is sufficient.

        IF he considered he was a believer and did these things, then he has a mental condition, I don't know his state of mind, neither do you I guess.... maybe he's a combat vet and just lost it when he got back, who knows?

        As for the other guy you mentioned, I have nobody to support or not in the USA, for I am English, and we lost our interests in your countries politics long ago!

        I just wonder why anyone would gloat over this murder killing people and find the fact that he said he was Jesus worthy of opening a forum to pour scorn on everything 2.5 billion people hold dear.

        Does tolerance ONLY extend to your beliefs or lack of them?

        Cannot we believers expect the same tolerance that you all demand from us?

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Everyone is free to believe what they wish. I find it odd that people get so offensive over a question. I'm not gloating over the cops getting killed. Should the issue be swept under the rug that the killer believed he was Jesus? It was his quote, not mine.

          1. chambersgirl21 profile image61
            chambersgirl21posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I dont understand where you are goin with this, the fact that he claimed to be Jesus, what does that have to do with the believers?

            1. marinealways24 profile image59
              marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I don't know. They took it personal. I asked how you would reason with someone to tell them they aren't Jesus and the believers brought negative energy. lol

          2. aguasilver profile image87
            aguasilverposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            He apparently also said the following, which you did not pick up on:

            "That same article also says this,

            "At the time of his arrest, Clemmons "told the officer President Obama and Lebron James are his brothers, Oprah (Winfrey) is his sister and referred to himself as ‘the beast,’" the forensic report said."

            Then the article says this,

            "Two psychologists from Western State Hospital conducted the evaluation and concluded: "He presents with increased risk for future dangerous behavior and for committing future criminal acts jeopardizing public safety and security," the News-Tribune said

            But he was released from jail after posting bail with the assistance of Jail Sucks Bail Bonds."

            Maybe the forum topic could have been better considered, rather than go for the cheap dig at Christ, guaranteed to bring some Christians into the arena to let the 'lions' loose on.

            I though we stopped that when Rome burnt!

    28. aguasilver profile image87
      aguasilverposted 7 years ago

      This is what 'Jail Sucks Bail Bonds' have to say on the case:

      STATEMENT REGARDING THE SHOOTINGS IN LAKEWOOD...

      It was with great sadness we learned of the shootings in Lakewood on Sunday morning. I
      want to be clear that had we known Clemmons was capable of such a heinous crime we
      never would have posted this bond. Almost all the people who work in this office have
      previous law enforcement, fire service and/or public safety experience. We would NEVER
      purposely put anyone, especially law enforcement into harms way. We had no way of
      knowing this monster would commit such crimes.

      Clemmons has no felony convictions in the state of Washington that we are aware of, he has
      been charged with several crimes; Rape of Child 2nd, Assault 3rd, and several counts of
      Malicious Mischief. He was held in July as a Fugitive from Justice (I assume for the Arkansas
      matter) but that was dismissed for an unknown reason. We had no knowledge of his criminal
      history or convictions in Arkansas. In July he posted bond with another bond company in
      Seattle on these same charges. In September he was returned to custody by DOC for a
      parole violation (unknown what the violation was). In November he was given a mental health
      evaluation by Western State Hospital to evaluate his competency to stand trial. Shortly after
      they determined he could, Pierce County set his conditions for release and bail. The other
      bond company exonerated him off their bond on November 12th, 2009, we are told for
      non-payment or failure to follow contract. We posted bond on November 23rd. As a
      requirement of the bond, given the charges and size of the bond, we required Clemmons to
      be on a GPS bracelet and to check in weekly and also to have two co-signers and put up a
      piece of property as collateral. We met with Clemmons twice during the week of the 23rd,
      once when he was released and again on the 24th. Nothing at that time seemed out of the
      ordinary. None of the people co-signing for him said anything about his mental status or
      previous convictions in Arkansas, which again, we had no knowledge of or really any way of
      knowing about. We were also not aware he had been notified that he was facing a life
      sentence here in Washington as well, if convicted of the Rape of Child case (the only reason I
      am aware of this is from reading a report on it). Had we known this, we would not have
      posted this bond. Had we known Clemmons was telling people he was "Jesus" or that the
      "world was going to end" soon and to "watch the news", we never would have posted this
      bond.

      We are working with law enforcement and providing them with any information on this case
      they request. We are also working our own information sources for any information we can
      provide law enforcement. I pray for the families involved in this tragedy, for the safety of the
      community, and for swift and profound justice in this matter.

    29. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

      Of course the beauty of it all is that people can stop being wicked if they want. I'd prefer to neither be nor walk upon ashes.

    30. marinealways24 profile image59
      marinealways24posted 7 years ago

      Why do you people always want someone to burn? Not very nice.

      1. Valerie F profile image60
        Valerie Fposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        How about reading my post before you "you people" me? I said I'd prefer to neither be nor walk on ashes. That means I don't want anyone to burn. Whether you burn or not, however, is up to you. Not my decision at all.

        1. marinealways24 profile image59
          marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I knew the "you people" would strike a nerve somewhere. I didn't put you in those "you people" unless you do want me to burn in hell, which isn't very nice. If it's my decision, I don't want to burn. Do I have to believe not to burn?

    31. Will Apse profile image90
      Will Apseposted 7 years ago

      If religious belief was a symptom of or precursor to insanity we would all be in deep trouble, since the overwhelming majority of the planets people are believers.

      The fact that so many people who go crazy think that they are Jesus really is a testimony to the archetypal power of the idea of Jesus.

      One of my neighbour's in London thought he was Jesus. The whole family was mad except perhaps for the father who seemed merely mean and cruel. There were 3 children and all were clinically insane as teenagers (schizophrenia) but still pretty sweet kids and surprisingly perceptive. I often had to drive one or other of them to the hospital for medication or admission.

      The Jesus boy used to chase people around with a big grin and no clothes to explain that he loved them.

      1. earnestshub profile image86
        earnestshubposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        A bit like yourself then Will? smile

    32. DogSiDaed profile image60
      DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago

      If Jesus truly came to earth now, who would believe him? tongue

    33. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

      Actually, someone can be logical and still do horrible things, because logic is only as good as its premises and how conclusions are drawn.

      1. marinealways24 profile image59
        marinealways24posted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol You acknowledge that everyone can have a different sense of logic and belief of truth and you think it's possible for your God to expect the same religious belief of everyone? How is that possible when you admit everyone has a different truth. Is your truth the only logical truth?

     
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