Does the Bible support the belief that the dead go to heaven.

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   mohitmisraposted 15 years ago

   No not everyone goes to heaven when he or she dies.
   
   Jn 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world . . . this realm"
   
   Jn V3 I will come and receive you that where I am YOU may be also
   
   Its your home and its a question of time before you go home-everyone goes home
   
   You must want to go home.

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      Jeromeoposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I see you're up early.  No everyone won't go to Heaven but who out of the millions who have died will go to heaven?  And in what scriptures do the bible expressly say when good people die they will go to heaven.
      
      My Bible tells me that only 144,000 of Jesus' faithful followers will receive that honor.  And that those 144,000 will have the honor or duty of  assisting Jesus in judging mankind through the 1000, year reign.
      
      The divine purpose is not to have Jesus Christ rule as king alone for the thousand years. The beloved Son of God is not to stand up alone as King on the heavenly Mount Zion, the seat of government. But, as the apostle John tells us: “I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him [a hundred and forty-four thousand] having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . . . And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. . . . These are the ones that keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.”—Revelation 14:1-5.
      
      The individuals making up the 144,000 joint heirs of Christ. Over the past nineteen centuries since the founding of the Christian congregation in 33 C.E., these 144,000 joint heirs of Christ have been taken out from nations.

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         mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         This 144,000 could possibly mean the ones who were certain to go back to God during that very time John spoke.Or maybe 144,000 were saved by Jesus at that moment.I believe he has influenced millions after he went.Its also said that the Prophets dont come alone but with their band or group,maybe the 144,000 is the group he came with to earth.
         We all come from the Light or God and are going to go back to the source.
         
         I keep wondering at what age I will die,
         Deam stage,awakened to fully awakened I must try.
         
         I am going to try and go back home

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      Baunposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I have read some replies and I wonder why so many are stuck on the 144,000.  According to the Bible there was also  a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tounges, that stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.  They were in heaven and the angels praised God.
      
      
      
      
      
      

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   sandra rinckposted 15 years ago

   Maybe you should ask people what their idea of Heaven is.  You might get a group of people that want a Paridise Earth, maybe some people just picture themselves on a lake in a boat fishing all day long.  Some (myself) think being able to fly like bird in the Heavens (Universe..space) and not being confined to Paridise Earth.
   
   To be honest, I don't really fancy a place of flowing milk and honey because for one I don't like milk, something about drinking from a cows teat well, it seems a bit unatural to me. lol.  Honey I think I could live with. 
   
   Other than that, I don't think I would want to spend eternity judging people day in and day in.  Albeit kickin' it with God would be cool but, too much work and no play.  Not my idea of Heaven. 

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   gamergirlposted 15 years ago

   If only 144,000 souls go to heaven at the endtimes, that certainly presents the conundrum to the millions and millions of "Christians" in the world - just being saved doesn't get you to Heaven, it sounds like.. so what happens to the others beyond that 144,000 number? Gonna be a lot of pissed off "believers" out there.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Somewhere in the Bible, I forget which book, it says that they will remain on a new Earth.  Also the 144000 people that go to heaven are from the 12 tribes 12 thousand from each. 
      
      But ask a scholar and they will tell you that it is impossible to be part of those 10 lost tribes.  (not that you didn't know). 
      
      How this is overlooked I don't know since it seems to be one of the only things not changed in the Bible. 
      
      They probabaly get the idea going to Heaven from "Then Jesus came down on a cloud and took them up with him."  Up- Heaven, you know...
      
      but the other day BDaz gave me some scripture that I think will be one of those parts that I never forget it says.
      
      Romans 14
      
      Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but don't argue about doubful issues.  One person believes he may eat anything, but one who is weak eats only vegetables.
      One who east must not look down on one who does not eat translation, one who accepts Christ must not look down on one who has not; and one who does not eat must not criticize one who does, because God has accepted him. 
      Who are you to criticize another's household slave?  Before his own Lord he stands or falls.  And stand he will!  For the Lord is able to make him stand. 
      
      Once person considers on day to be above another day.  Someone else considers every day to be the same.  Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.  Whoever eats, eats to the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; and whoever does not eat, it is to the Lord that he does not eat, yet he thanks God.  For non of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.  If we live, we live to the lord and fif we die, we die to the Lord.  Therefor, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 
      
      Christ died and came to life for this: that He might rule over both the dead and the living.  But you, why do you criticize your brother?  Or you, why do you look down on your brother?  For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 
      
      For it is written:
      As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue will give praise to God.
      
      So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
      
      So whether a person is ritually saved, not saved or just outright denies Christ or the existence of God, just be sure about what you believe, even if this is consistent with God does not exist.
      
      Plus, if Jesus is ruling Hell too!  So what exaclty is the Devil and what exactly is Heaven?  One could only imagine and believe what they must and it's all good.
      
      Though I heavily suggest that not killing.  That would be great!!!  And the Spirit is in the people, probably why Jesus said do not blasphemy the Spirit, and here it says do not critize people for thier beliefs.
      
      

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         BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Wow nice!  Very insightful look at scripture.  You're right, ultimately, it's between the individual and God. I appreciate you more every post, Sandra. Jesus ruling hell .. now that's something you don't see preached every day.

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         brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus is not ruliing hell. hell translates grave every time. There is no hell as the catholics think of hell. When the dead are mentioned "He might rule over both the dead and the living" its the spiritually dead and spiritually alive that is being talked about, check the surrounding verses for context.
         The dead sleep and remember nothing, nor do they praise or cajole god. Try these: 1 kings 2:10, I cor. 11:30, 1 thes 4:14.
         
         psalm 146:4, 88:10-12, 115:17, 6:5, isaiah 38:10,11
         
         Heb 9:27 For it is appointed for men to die once, then be judged. (at judgement time, not before)

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      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      the 144,000 rule and reign with christ during the 1000 yrs. Afterward they go to heaven as the second death has no hold on them. These are the righteous redeemed from the earth. There may be more than 144,000 but 144,000 is all christ wants to use for this purpose.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   Very interesting topic.
   
   In Revelation 20:5 & 6 it talks about the first resurrection and it says the second death has no power over the blessed and holy that are part of the first resurrection.  Then at the end of Revelation 20 it talks about the second death.  It's believed that the first resurrection is the resurrection of the soul and those that make it through the second death take part in the second resurrection, the resurrection of the body which will be those that are found written in the book of life.  It's also believed that we are near finished that thousand year period.
   
   Yeah Sandra a new Jerusalem and a new earth will come down from Heaven.  The 144 thousand will administer to God in the new Jerusalem.  The 144 thousand will come down from Heaven when Jesus returns.  And those 144 thousand will be the saints and martyrs from both the Old Testament and New Testament eras.  You know, because the first, what was it 3,000 I think that became Christians that the apostles converted after they received the flame of the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem were actually Israelites.  This is referred to as the First Pentecost when the apostles talked to them in tongues, meaning in their own language.  The descendants of those first Jewish Christians are still Christians.  This all shows a seamless transition from the Old Testament era to the New Testament era. 
   
   Paul was concerned with his brethren that didn't accept Jesus but in both Malichi 4 and Romans 9, 10 and 11 it says in the end days God will send Elijah (Elias) for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ.  The Catholic Bible has Elias in both.  I've also read somewhere that there is suppose to be two prophets sent in the end days.  That's why I was asking daeemomin in another thread about the prophet that is suppose to come to the Muslims before the return of Jesus, which is part of Islamic belief.  You know what I mean, it would be amazing if that other prophet was bringing the same message as Elias to Muslims.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam have the same routes.
   
   No God's plan is not for just 144 thousand.  So we all have the potential to live with God on the new earth that comes down from heaven if we are found written in the book of life.  Very cool topic.

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Your knowledge on the Bible is just something else.Every post of yours is packed with information-thank you very much It is not only the Muslims and Christians who believe their Prophet is imminent but even the Hindus and Parsees.Offcourse he will bring the same message to all and create tolerance amongst relgions.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   The 144,000 are alive during the "great tribulation". They will be real people, from Israel mistering to, and within Israel at that time. (BTW, they are all men).
   Different topic.

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6. 65

   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   Also, "the dead" don't go to heaven, the "living" do. Heaven is a place of LIFE.
   Death is merely the gateway to heaven (or hell). Jesus said He was the "door". Hope the door is not closed for you (the reader).

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      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This is how chapter 20 ends from the KJB, Revelation 20:11 to 15.
      
      
      That's what I meant when I said "those that make it through the second death take part in the second resurrection, the resurrection of the body which will be those that are found written in the book of life."  Meaning they don't go to the second death.
      
      aka-dj what makes you think that "The 144,000 are alive during the "great tribulation". They will be real people, from Israel mistering to, and within Israel at that time" ?
      
      Mike

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      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      True one is more alive in Death

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         mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         The door is open,one must go into it,depends on you.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   That's the understanding I have from reading Rev 14. It comes immeiately after the (infamous) 666. And, they are standing on mount Zion, indicative of "priestly ministry". They are God's ministers (after the rapture) whilst Israel is still in unbelief. (untill, of course they recognize the "dessecration of the Holy of Holies" by the ant-christ)

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   Actually aka-dj 666 is not mentioned until the last verse in Rev 14 although from verse 8 it talks about the fall of Babylon.
   
   This is the first 7 verses of Rev 14. from KJB
   
   
   So the 144 thousand;
   1. Had God's name written in their foreheads.
   2. No man could learn that song but the 144 thousand (that the angels will sing I believe)
   3. They were redeemed from the earth.
   4. They were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.
   5. They follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.
   6. These were redeemed from among men.
   7. The firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
   8. In their mouth was found no guile.
   9. They are without fault before the throne of God.
   
   Notice how it speaks in the past tense, they were not they are.  And they were the firstfruits without guile or fault.  And they follow the Lamb where ever He goes.
   
   I don't think there would be 144 thousand people on this planet right now that would be as pure of heart as described above.  And they wouldn't be the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 
   
   I don't want to make this an argument but does that not look like the return of Jesus Christ with His saints and angels aka-dj? 
   
   Does the 144 thousand not sound like the saints from the Old Testament and New Testament eras?  The elders? 
   
   The 144 thousand are suppose to be made up of the 12 tribes.  Do you think the 10 lost tribes are living in Israel right now?  Jesus is the Lamb.  The people of Israel don't follow the Lamb where ever he goes.
   
   But we know from Rev 20 above that we all have the potential to live with God on the new earth.
   
   King James Bible   Douay-Rheims Bible
   
   Mike
   
   P.S.  It also says Blessed are the dead in Rev 14:13: "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   ? I just posted my understanding of it. It's not critical to my(your) salvation, and there's room for other points of view. I accept your's is plausible, however, the (heavenly) language never seems to number actual believers that are saved throughout the church age. They are refferred to as "innumerable" etc. That's partly why I see the 144,000 as unique, both as to who they are, where they are from and what they "do".
   Again, time will tell. The day is coming when all shall be revealed. Amen.

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      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      So true aka-dj.  All of the above is not critical to our salvation.  Yes the Bible refers to the saved as innumerable which is good news.  But what is important is to be able to recognize the difference between the return of Jesus Christ and the false messiah who is suppose to come before Jesus.  Lionswhelp and I are having a discussion about this starting on page 3 of the thread titled RELIGION VS THE BIBLE if you care to read it.

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10. 66

    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Baun some think the 144,000 are people that are living on earth, whether in Israel or elsewhere at the time of the second coming but they are not.  That's what I tried to explain above and in the RELIGION VS THE BIBLE thread.  The 144,000 are in Heaven with Jesus now.  And we have already been living in the millennial period that they think will come after the second coming.  This is all very important because from 2 Thessalonians 2 we see that the antichrist has to sit in the temple before the second coming of Jesus Christ.  The antichrist will try to disguise himself as Jesus Christ.  You don't want to recognize the antichrist as Jesus Christ.  The RELIGION VS THE BIBLE thread covers it in more detail.

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    Jouneyman2posted 15 years ago

    There is no verse in the Bible in which God teaches that the dead go to heaven, in fact he states that they go to sleep... pass into unconsciousness.  Only their essence, mind/thoughts/memories returns to him.
    
    Christ clearlt states that no man has ascended into heaven, only he who came down from heaven. If men did go to heaven when they died, what then would be the purpose of the resurections and second death?

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    jgrimes331posted 15 years ago

    The bible does support the idea of multiple levels of a heavenly realm.  But does the "dead" go to heaven.  The old testament- no.  The new testament-yes, but only through Christ.  In the Gospel of Timothy, Timothy speaks of how Jesus went down to hell, to release the heavenly men housed their waiting for the death of Jesus.  So when Christ,  went to hell he released Noah, Moses, Isaac, Abraham souls.  Christ released them to Heaven.  So it is my belief that the bible does speak of heaven and the after life.
    
    So it is very confusing and sketchy.

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       Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I should note, that before reading any further, one should consider the following verse : 1 Cor.14 v 33.
       
       In 1 Timothy 6 v 11-16; specifically v16 Paul in no uncertain terms says, as inspired by the Spirit, that ONLY Christ has immortality. In Acts 2 v 34 Paul tells us that David is (note present tense) not ascended into the heavens.  Again in Hebrews 11  Paul is discussing faith and giving examples of it in v 1- 12, yet if one continues to v 13 one can clearly understand that these patriarchs... "all died in faith, not receiving the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them...".  Christ himself clearly states in John 3 v 12 that he is about to tell of heavenly things (something concerning heaven), and continues in v 13 to state that "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven ..."   and as Christ is the literal Word of God, he speaks for God.
       
       So I suppose my question would be, as God is not the author of confusion, how is it that men have supposedly ascended into heaven when God, through Christ, clearly says they haven't?

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          jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Wow, a real live Sunday school lesson! 
          
          Everyone, you might want to take heed from the scriptures above.   All but one scripture listed, was authored by a Roman man named Saul who by the grace of God became Paul.  I guess he didn't want to pay the $25 legal fee for changing his name.... so he declared that God blinded him and said his name, from now on would be Paul.  Wow, imagine that if you will.   But now we know him as The Apostle Paul none the less.
          
          Apostle Paul wrote letters to churches all over the countryside that he had founded.  Apostle Paul also writes that women are not equal to men, women must cover their hair before entering a place of worship.  That women are not as worthy as men and that women should submit under their husbands law and wishes.   Personally being a bible buff, I don't think Saul was a very kind man towards women in general.  But Christ did not say that his disciples of doctrine where to follow this man away.  The men at the Council of Nicea did!!!
          
          In the Gnostic Gospels another sacred Holy text book, the Gospel of Thomas seeks out the truth quite differently and speaks directly to the disciples of Christ.  In fact the Gospel of Thomas says if we are to follow the way of Jesus Christ- we are too follow the path of Christ's natural brother James.  NOT PAUL!
          
          GO figure... It is confusing and sketchy to say the least....

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             Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Regarding Christ's direct words, do you disqualify those as well?

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             Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             It is your assertion that Paul was unqualified to speak for Christ, even though Christ gave him that commission?

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                jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                No..... not black and white like that;  he was still a FREE thinking, FREE willed MAN, still after all...  Check out this hub if you'd like, it might shed some light on what I think..
                
                http://hubpages.com/hub/Julie-Grimes-Philosophy

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    qwarkposted 14 years ago

    Can pumpkins be turned into royal coaches?
    When kissed by princesses, can frogs change into princes?
    Are unicorns real?
    
    all of the above compare to: "...the dead go to heaven."
    
    prove I'm wrong...I doubledare ya!   :-)

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    Geez there is a lot of ideas here from a wide range of worm food!

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    Hey earnest, is there any possibility that you are secretly a believer?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    I'm coming down to Australia to check you out. Maybe we could pray together.... no wait... I meant drink beer!

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       In Australia, that is praying!

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    The glow from a little overindulgence in beer is amazingly similar to the feelings elicited by a good rousing prayer session. It seems we've each had experiences with both.
    
    Oh Lordy, I think I might have just blasphemed. Do you remember what the punishment is for that?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Sure! You have to put down the ice cold Victoria bitter out of the tap, and drink a tepid English beer that tastes like calf droppings!

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    Thank you, kind Judgement Administrator. I'll drink two for me (one as insurance for next time) and one or two for you because I know for sure you're gonna have a next time!!! HA! HA!

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you kind sir, I must say you learn Australian religion real fast!

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    I was just over on another thread where the question was about one's concept or choice of religion. I think I'll get on back there and let them know my choice.

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Cool. no doubt I will be there too.

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    Do you think maybe we've hijacked the thread? Do you know any dead people we could ask about Heaven so we could bring it back to topic?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Nah, all the dead guys aint said a word in 2000 years!

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          Niteriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I can't concentrate that long. Where'd you say the beer was?

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             earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    By the way, earnest, do you know if anyone has located Heaven yet? If so, can it be found with a GPS?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well so far we have only looked back 30 billion years or so, but so far no heaven.

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    So now I suppose you're going to tell me that the question "Does the Bible support the belief...etc." is meaningless and not worth discussing? Sigh... Is there no God?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No hasn't been spotted either.

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    Niteriterposted 14 years ago

    You're such a mean man! Can't you learn to lie a little?

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       earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well my son was giving me a massage the other day, he is real good at deep tissue massage and can really dig in. He has been training and is now built like a brick shithouse and accidently popped a rib. I reckon I saw him for a second or two and even yelled out his name, (along with a few expletives)
       But I got this sort of flash. Conclusion? God is a pain!

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          Niteriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Good one! I'm worried though. The only revelations I get are hot flashes. And I see red pj's and pitchforks.

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             earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I know those symptons. My cure is more beer.

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                Niteriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                We are now blood brothers!

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                   earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Ah yes, blood brother, beer is liquid gold from the gods.
                   By the way I think worms may be gods. Just a thought. They do seem to be the recipients of us if you know what I mean. Puts them in a very elevated position.

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