RECENT CHANGE: Heading 4 is now all Upper Case

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  1. Paraglider profile image89
    Paragliderposted 10 years ago

    I always formatted my poetry hubs in H4 as that was the only way to achieve single line spacing.
    Now, suddenly, they are all appearing in UPPER CASE.

    Please can we have a simple font back that allows normal mixed case with single line spacing?

  2. Pearldiver profile image68
    Pearldiverposted 10 years ago

    Ummmmm... it seems that some clever with a 'fix it when it ain't broken policy', has decided that old people and the Baby Boomers market, with poor eyesight need BIG LETTERS and WOW.... now we can't see the small stuff!! roll  smile

    1. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Minor tweaks to fonts are OK, but rendering as upper case what was written in mixed case (mostly lower, of course) is taking an exceptional liberty with the writer's intention.
      Upper case poetry - sheesh!!

      1. Pearldiver profile image68
        Pearldiverposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Well to some I guess the belief is, that Lower Case poetry should ONLY be written by Upper Case types who, with virtually no understanding of the ART, feel they are better qualified to adjudicate on those of us who may well be considered lowercase by same, yet appreciate and practice the art with mixed case expertise and vaster uppercase knowledge!  lol

        Dave.... I had noticed that Kipling has also suffered the indignity of ignorance.... If is now IF and the perfect hub that you created, is now to be read in the emotionally immature case of SCREAMING!!!
        I don't believe musicians appreciate having their music bastardized in such manner - Why would poets appreciate the same??? 
        What an unbelievable total lack of Class... I thought!!  sad   lol
        Unbelievable... SURELY it's an Uppercase BUG! sad

        1. Paraglider profile image89
          Paragliderposted 10 years agoin reply to this


          Not only is IF now in upper case, but the single line spacing and paragraph spacing are now rendered identical, so that all the lines and stanzas merge into a wall of type.

          Any moderators out there??

  3. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 10 years ago

    I think it may have something to do with Marisa's thread about changing the H4 heading..  I just checked my poetry hubs and I see the change also!  I have one portion of a poem in caps!  And another heading also looks smaller?  OOPs!

    1. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Rebekah. Yes, it looks like the same problem. It seems they've addressed a minor issue and created a major one!

  4. Howard S. profile image89
    Howard S.posted 10 years ago

    @Paraglider: There are two ways to achieve the effect you desire for poetry, i.e., single-spaced lines with a ragged right edge.

    The first is to enter the < br > code from within the text capsule's HTML mode. This can be tedious, but works. The other method is quicker, but complicated.

    The second method is to paste your text from a word processor and use the text capsule's "Preformatted" paragraph style. Draft your text in a word processor (e.g. Microsoft Word) that can distinguish line breaks from paragraph breaks. There is a bug that makes the pasting appear to be impossible. When you paste the text, it may throw in spurious line breaks that make you want to edit to "fix" it. Don't! Instead, carefully select the portion (all, if poetry) and apply the Preformatted paragraph style. When you save the capsule, it will correct the corrupted appearance. It may also insert an extra paragraph break between stanzas, depending on how you've got your word processor paragraph styles set--these can be safely deleted.

    Note to those just discovering this discussion: This discussion is scattered across at least three forum threads, due to the multiple facets the change corrupted.

    1. derek gulbranson profile image77
      derek gulbransonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A much less tedious way to add a single line space return is "shift+return". This works in most modern text editors, including ours.

      Previously, Heading 4 was styled the same as body copy. That is improper usage of that heading tag. The purpose of a heading tag is for use as subheadings, and the latest change has made them much more usable for that purpose. I'm not sure I agree that we should be shackled to improper usage of that heading tag for eternity because some have used it improperly.

      I expect there will be more changes to the font and sizing of heading tags in the future since this is one of the more important elements of increasing the readability and aesthetic appeal of a page design. The majority of modern web sites have moved beyond the 3 basic web fonts that were available last decade and I expect HubPages will do the same before too long.

      1. Howard S. profile image89
        Howard S.posted 10 years agoin reply to this

        I obviously know how to do this in other text editors. For some reason I thought it didn't work in the HP editor.

      2. Paraglider profile image89
        Paragliderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

        Obviously, tags should be correctly used. But please note that until recently there was no way to enter HTML tags manually. The workaround of using H4 to format poetry was forced on us by the limitations of the earlier HP editor. So it is a little bit rough to criticise our inventiveness as improper use.

        And, as before, forced UPPER CASE is not acceptable.

        p.s. I've just started on the tedious process of reforming my poetry hubs using paragraph text, deleting each line break and replacing it with the shift return...
        end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ end del shift-return/ ..... going to be a long day wink

  5. profile image0
    SirDentposted 10 years ago


    Sorry, was I shouting?

  6. psycheskinner profile image82
    psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

    I get making it different from body text, but why on earth did that mean making it all caps.  Surely it could just be boldface?

  7. derek gulbranson profile image77
    derek gulbransonposted 10 years ago

    This fourth level heading needs to look different from the other 3 headings so that when they are used properly in the document hierarchy is their difference and relationship to each other is visually apparent. Since, at the moment, we are limited to 2 fonts, we're fairly limited in the things we can do to differentiate the headings from each other. Small uppercase letters is not a terribly uncommon choice for H4 styling given those constraints. Neither bold nor size on their own would differentiate this heading enough to be noticeably different when used properly.

    I am sorry that this causes some rework and I hope not being insensitive to it. I tried to find the poetry Hubs you mentioned on your profile but I did not find any. The real problem is that the previous style gave the illusion that it was safe to rely on the specific current formatting of the heading tags remaining the same indefinitely, and that is definitely not the case. The heading styles may change drastically as technology progresses and you should not rely on their current styling remaining unchanged. Our goal in any changes of styling to HTML elements will be to support their accepted and standard semantic usage.

    1. profile image0
      SirDentposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I had already reformatted my most popular poetry hub.  Just finished the others that are published.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image91
      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      This is the Hub where I noticed the problem: … -Backlinks

      You have to scroll down to the "Other Blogs" section.

      I think the problem is that H3 is too small.    Make H3 bigger, then you could make H4 look like H3 does now, perhaps in sans serif.

  8. psycheskinner profile image82
    psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

    IMHO it would be better to drop heading four then to change to it something that is actually more high impact than heading three. To some extent we should be able to depend on the four headings being in a clear salience hierarchy.  That is rather the point of using styles?  Otherwise I will just hard format my headings with html.  That's my 2c anyway. (Goes off to hard format headings).

    1. derek gulbranson profile image77
      derek gulbransonposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with that. I guess I feel that the new H4 is less visually prominent than H3, but I admit they are close and there's room for disagreement. If you can point me to an example of a Hub that uses the H4 properly as sub-headings but looks bad next to the H3, that would probably convince me to change it pretty quickly.


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