Negativity in the forums and status feed.

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   epsonok0posted 11 years ago

   I have been sort of sifting through peoples comments and have to bring up about the overwhelming negativity. The general mood around hub pages has turned rather dismal. I am a member on several gamming sites, and those sites saw a great decline in traffic. The decline was a result of a loss of staff and a change in site traffic. Then when money got tight staff members left and as a result of all of that the site nearly collapsed as people got tired of the negativity and left. Let us not forget how lucky we are to have a site like this one that is a community where we can all come and enjoy the art of writing.

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      Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's all the Atheists. hahaha... Just kidding! lol

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         krisaclarkposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         If had said it's all the Christians. Just kidding, it probably wouldn't have been funny lol

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            WryLiltposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I woulda laughed!

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      Kathryn Stratfordposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I notice there's a lot of negativity and discouragement, too. I am very optimistic, but I don't usually post on forums. I'm sure there's a lot of positivity, too, it's just not as easy to see.
      When things change some people take it hard. Hopefully things will change for the better, and those who are unhappy will become contented.

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      Jordan Hakeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Negativity?  Oh no, time to bring out my cat:
      
      

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      modernalchemystposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I joined late last Fall (my other account) so I got in after traffic had already dropped considerably. I've definitely noticed some of the same shift, and I tend to focus on writing "money content" through other platforms while using HP for pure enjoyment pet projects that I just plain enjoy researching. I usually get a few bucks off my other account per month, which is fine with me since that's not where all my eggs are. If your goal on HP is to create an exclusive stream of online writing income, I can understand why you'd be pretty glum!

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      Sarra Garrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I actually had put up a "no snarkey" forum that lasted for a week.  There was nothing but good comments for a change.  I'm noticing the earmarks of a mass exodus here and I hope that doesn't happen.

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      Bard of Elyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I am tired of all the negativity too and for me HubPages is still the best site to make money on!

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   Will Apseposted 11 years ago

   The only thing that ever worries me about this site is that the owners/staff will lose heart.

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      relacheposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If you look back at the staff over the years, the one position that turns over regularly is the Marketing Manager.  Nearly all the other positions that have existed since the beginning are still held by the same staff person since the inception of the company.

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   rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

   It must depend on who/what you follow.   I don't see any negativity on my feed with status updates or comments.
   There will always be negativity on forums because we look at the site/life with our own perspective.
   
   I like HP and have seen it go through various up/down/transition periods.

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   Will Apseposted 11 years ago

   The current gloom might be partly down to the poor results article writers are seeing at other sites. A lot of hubbers also have pages at Squidoo, Web Answers, Wizzley etc which have suffered hugely.
   
   I noticed a 'giant squid' posted a pic of her traffic graph at Squidoo (Jan 2012-May 2013) recently:
   
   
   
   Anyone looking at losses like that would be pretty tired of the whole business of writing online.

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      PaulGoodman67posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The graph echoes my Squidoo experience (things were looking great in Autumn).  But on top of the traffic problems, I am regularly getting lenses locked and it can take weeks before they are back online.  Don't get me wrong, I think Squidoo needs to tighten up its act, but it should be managed change and not a knee-jerk panic.

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         Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         What amazes me is the way that Squidoo writers accept the management's half-witted 'quality' strategies. They cannot identify good and bad stuff at scale.
         
         Many perfectly good pages get chopped. Many lousy pages are ignored.  Why would anyone write there at all?
         
         If HP can QAP the whole site, at least they can adjust quality thresholds here in a rational way.

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      Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My thoughts on that Squidoo climb and drop.  Rubbish as you wish.
      
      It was odd to say the least that HubPages was consistently attacked by Google algo changes - while Squidoo seemed to sail on.  In mid-summer it was becoming rather obvious that either Google algo was innocently ignoring Squidoo or... something else.
      
      On Squidoo their traffic improved.  They entered the top fifty sites.  At or before that high point the casual army of spam, copied and thin content merchants - who write anywhere they can make money - will have been piling into Squidoo.  Making a bad situation... worse.
      
      Squidoo had a fantastic Halloween.  All those pages that consist of Amazon adverts and nothing else - made money.  At some point Google finally noticed or was forced to act.
      
      Now Squidoo is the same as HubPages.
      
      HubPages has been through two years of struggle I think, pretty much since I started.  Still ongoing.  Squidoo are starting their own journey.
      
      I prefer negativity to cheer-leading - it gives a sort of balance.  The truth is generally in between the two.
      
      edit: One other thing about writing.  Whether you write for money or some higher purpose the end requirement is the same.  People who will read it.

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         Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Squidoo has plenty of good content. I remember looking in awe at the lovingly crafted lesson plans a teacher had made, amongst other stuff. Dozens of hours of work.
         
         I think the good stuff was simply overwhelmed in the end by the deluge of very thin affiliate pages, as you pointed out.
         
         Having said that, my commercially orientated pages get far longer read times than my more worthy info pages. Between 5 and ten minutes according to analytics.
         
         I think that tells you something about the nature of Homo mallus. Learn to cater to the things that the beast loves and the beast will reward you.

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   epsonok0posted 11 years ago

   We must embrace our own community. We cannot always look for our success to mean we have a featured hub with great traffic.We are writers who love writing. And that should be our sole focus. Now because i'm the free creative spirit type. I embrace how others feel. I do get discouraged when I see a fail in traffic.

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      WriteAngledposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, I am willing to bet that the sole focus for the majority of contributors here is money. There is nothing wrong with that focus either. I believe it is also the focus of the site owners.

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         HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, I spend most of my days writing "for passion" lol. The money doesn't enter into it. *giggling*

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            Barbara Kayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hollie T, Me too LOL

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            WriteAngledposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Uhuh, Hollie!

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               HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I know, sorry, couldn't resist

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   e-fiveposted 11 years ago

   Maintaining positivity is absolutely crucial.  After all, had it not been for the impressive audience solidarity in supportive applause at my junior high school production of Pinocchio, Tinkerbell might not have survived her bout with melancholy.

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      Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      lol
      Although you might have meant Peter Pan?

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   e-fiveposted 11 years ago

   Hub Pages is a community. But it's a more or less open community that attempts to market itself to people outside the community.  One of the best methods for improving any community is supporting people that are doing good or exceptional works, and correcting and/or discouraging people that aren't so talented or practiced.  In many cases, urging people to do better requires highlighting the things they do well.  Sometimes it requires citing specific things on which they're lagging behind.
   
   Universal, blanket praise of every mediocre work isn't a recipe for improvement.  Sometimes aspiration toward greater achievement can come through withholding praise, and sometimes the areas of unacceptable performance simply must be cited.  It can always be done without being vicious.
   
   I have a fairly high HubPages score (I hit 100 a few times).  But I could always use genuine feedback, positive and negative-- and even some pointed criticism-- to improve my writing. Sometimes I tend to get too personal, sometimes I approach topics that have emotional content almost like a technical writer.  I do a lot of writing for a living as a full time job-- but I make typos,punctuation errors, and lazy or uninspired phrasing way too often.
   
   I have a deep understanding that I'm not a perfect or exceedingly exceptional writer.  I'm OK, and I have flashes of insight and occasional cool turns of phrases.  My goal on HubPages isn't to become a prose poet, it's to impart useful/interesting information in a palatable or enjoyable way.  That's my strength as a writer, if I have one.  So that's what I try to do.
   
   You get better by playing with people better than you.  Nobody gets better by being deluded into being something they're ill-suited to.  As a community, it's in all of our best interests to be supportive, but in a rational way that levels with the person-- and if need be, steers them toward their true talents.  Falsely pumping up people's aspirations in a futile direction works in the opposite way.

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      HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So do artificial hubberscores. This sub from which I am writing has received a score that is just a couple of marks below yours. I write for a living, not out of choice but necessity, it's not that I don't like writing, I do- but it wasn't my first choice. My new subdomain will be 4 weeks old tomorrow, I think we should do away with artificial scores and false praise, such as "great hub, voted up and awesome" I generally follow people that I've met in the forums because they've said something interesting. Unfortunately, interesting gets you nowhere with searchers- but power foods and lip gloss do.

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   PaulGoodman67posted 11 years ago

   Neither positive, nor negative, Grasshopper - one must transcend the Google! 

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   Shadesbreathposted 11 years ago

   This is exactly what everyone with a brain knew was going to happen four or five years ago when some people were trying to write really awesome content for the sake of awesome content and other people were "writing" content with the intent of working the SERP and all its related systems for easy cash.
   
   Anyone who thought you could just be honest and hard working and produce quality content as a long-term career in an environment rife with people inventing things like "article spinning" and "content farms" etc. and, despite all of that, believed they could still make a living with genuine content was naive and needs to start wearing a helmet when they go out in public.
   
   On the flip side, anyone who thought they could puke crap or semi-crap into the system with clever mechanisms and trickery and make a long term income was equally stupid. You can't crap on your customer (reader) and expect to build a base.
   
   As usual, the hackers ruined it for everyone, but, also as usual, the hackers got theirs before it all went down, and they don't care what they ruined, because hackers don't care. The locusts don't care about ruining the field; they just fly off in their swarms and destroy something else while the farmer's family starves.
   
   The genuine writers who sit around in the wreckage of HP, Squidoo or anyplace else and cry and whine need to stop whining and realize you write in a real world. There are snakes and wolves and foxes and eagles and all kinds of predators out there. They belong in nature as much as your lofty ideals and rabbit-ass self belongs. So, get over it, move on. Find some way to make real, genuine and beautiful content pay. It can. You just have to bring something different than the snakes and coyotes, etc. Transcend them if you can, but do it by being savvy and paying attention to what they do.
   
   I guess what I'm getting at is that mourning over the death of the systems that have been burnt down by the exploiters and gamers is going to net you nothing. Those same exploiters are already working on ruining something else, but they will suck all the life blood out of it for a while first. Try to figure out where they went and see if you can make some money writing something of value there before those guys kill it. They are good at figuring out where people go to find something of value. So go provide value before the exploiters once again sh!t all over the readers/customers/users. Maybe even make a name for yourself and get them on your mailing list or website RSS.
   
   Rinse and repeat. Whining nets you nothing.

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      Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hmm. That was a big one. I bet you feel better now, lol.

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    HollieTposted 11 years ago

    Who's Nicholas?

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    Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago

    It's all true.  I earned 5,000 dollars in my first month.  It was crazy.  All I had to do was log in to a few sites and pretend I liked them.  They will be paying me soon I expect.

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       HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       WOW Nicholas, can I sign up too?

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          Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Sign right here.........................................

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    Beth37posted 11 years ago

    I still have no idea what any one's talking about. lol

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       HollieTposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       You and me both. Clearly we have spent too much time in PDS's threads.

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          Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          lol... this is a writers forum, you'd think at some point I would be willing to commit a little more time to reading. I have no attention span.

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    Hikapoposted 11 years ago

    Hey fellows, lets drink the loverade and stop drinking the haterade!!
    
    

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    LauraD093posted 11 years ago

    I always welcome feed-back but the negativity is what has been keeping me out of the forums. It just gets to a point that I wonder if we are truly professionals here or a bunch of babies. This site has overall become a social medium and not a safe harbor for writing and those wanting to improve on their craft. I haven't made a dime in over 16 months here and although told that the percentage of writer's making anything substantial here is 5% or less I have continued to participate in the community to learn and improve on my craft. Unfortunately the b.s. has increased and my time spent here has decreased although most could give a damn. I really thought this could be a place not to rake in the bucks but a honest forum to meet other writers and exchange ideas --I am wondering just what it take to be in the popular crew I have had a high readership at times and a good profile score high nineties since I started here but am still largely ignored. I have moved on to other sites where it isn't a popularity contest and the contact with the "higher-ups" isn't cloaked in mystery as it is here. I will continue to write here occasionally and get what I can (which lately has been very little) for the experience alone and to maintain the few professional contacts I have made. Over-all my experience at first here was good that has slowly changed and my enthusiasm has waned. I'm sure this comment will be largely ignored as are most of my others but frankly I felt the need to warn newer members of the community to  be clear about what they want to get out of this. if its an income good luck folks. If it is honest feed-back more recently -I wish you luck with that as well. Maybe you will be one of the few that actually feels good about participating here. I too was like you in the beginning you will learn. Kiss some butt and perhaps you will succeed. Blown off frequently  signing off!

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       MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       No one on HP reads my stuff, I earn money.
       
       My views from HP total equal 2879. My views from Google CANADA are higher than that.
       
       It wouldn't affect me financially if my hubs were never viewed by another HP member again.
       
       What exactly were you looking for out of the community? Lots of people from within reading your hubs?  Sorry then, it seems you were WANTING hp to be a popularity contest and you are mad because 1. It isn't or 2. It is and you're losing.

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          Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          You manage to make me feel like a benign and caring person, Melissa, lol.

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             MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Aren't you?

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       WryLiltposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       LauraD093, you will never make money from weak titles, saturated topics and site members.
       
       Read my latest hub - it has dozens of tips for how you can correct issues in your hubs and start getting good traffic.

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          Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Blaming the individual does not always exonerate the community. There is a culture of fiercely denouncing the ignorance of newcomers.
          
          I prefer to denounce the ignorance of the old lags. Less guilt.
          
          There would be even less guilt if I was more helpful, I suppose.

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             WryLiltposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             LOL. Well people don't get anywhere by complaining; they get somewhere by identifying the issues and fixing them. This is why I don't work well in groups.

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       Shanna11posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I'm still technically a teenager, which makes me automatically rebellious and immature. With said life experience, I can further instruct you on the ways of being noticed and not ignored. It involves shenanigans.
       
       If you are further interested, I can provide you with a free consultation in the art of attention (Disclaimer: negative attention is still attention). For five easy payments of 19.95 I can further ensure that you are never again ignored.
       
       I look forward to doing business with you.
       
       Sincerely,
       -A professional, not a baby

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    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    I'm not seeing any popularity contest.  hubs go out to the public, the forums are a bunch of people with minimal moderation.  It's just the internet as usual.

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    indian cookingposted 11 years ago

    Negativity does not get you anything. Instead we should learn to stay positive and make amends. If I have a choice, I would prefer to surround myself with positive people and stay away from toxic personalities.

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    Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago

    

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       Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       lol.
       
       That is not only unhelpful. It is untrue.

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          Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          A win-win then.

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             Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             The best kind of perfidy.

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       epsonok0posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       His heads shaped like that???

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          Will Apseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          That is a hypothetical head in an alternate universe. Usually reached by a portal in the, um, well I can't rightly say in a family forum.

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             epsonok0posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             A hypothetical void in the dorsal muscles region? Lol

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    epsonok0posted 11 years ago

    Its nice to see that we have an engaged community. And though some of what has been said was windy.lol. I think this discussion can show us all that we are a community. Either that or we are all board.

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