Something went wrong with the scoring of one of my Hubs

1. 84

   Laura Schneiderposted 10 years ago

   Help! I woke up this morning to find that one of my mid-range performing hubs, "What is Creation, by Definition?" (http://lauraschneider.hubpages.com/hub/What-is-creation) had plummeted to a score of 55. It was 74 on Sept. 8th, 2013, and I know it is a well-written article with 3 pictures, a quiz, and over 1,081 words. Not rocket science, but not a 55 score hub, either. It's philosophical, so it doesn't get that much traffic, but it averages 0.5 views per day and was only published in March of this year so that value is increasing with referrals. It now scores well below my next-lowest scoring hub, which has a score of 67 (for a Haiku poem!).
   
   This change in hub score has apparently caused my overall/average hub score to go down by 2 points since yesterday and my hubber score also to go down by two points (also since yesterday).
   
   Does anyone see/know any reason for this? Has this happened to anyone else? And, is it likely to happen to any more of my hubs?!?
   
   I know that I do not use the HubPages copyright statement (on any of my hubs) because I feel it is not strong enough to protect my work internationally and it does not comply with the phrasing my lawyer told me to use. (I own the copyright to my work on HP, so I should be allowed, without penalty, to use the copyright statement my lawyer specified to protect it.) So, I add copyright information separately for each hub--but that doesn't explain why this one hub suddenly plummeted to the bottom of the trash bin over night since all of my hubs use the same general statement.
   
   Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can provide!!
   
   --Laura

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   1. 41

      ChristinSposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      that is a very radical drop. I would email the HP team and ask them to look into it.  I've seen hubs slip as much as 5 to 10 points at a time, but then they often come back up with no interference or updating from me.  Perhaps try some social sharing, do some minor adjustments if needed and then see what happens.
      
      Also, with your images, they are huge and take up the whole top part of the article, perhaps minimize that first image and put it to the top right.

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      1. 84

         Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Great ideas! Thanks, ChristinS! (I did do some tweaking, and social sharing, and the image used to be 1/2 the size of the page not the whole width but that changed since I last looked at the hub, too--perhaps related to the removal of the 1/4 size photos? Dunno.)
         
         I was actually thinking that the first photos were now required to be full-width, hence why I was checking the forums. LOL! I'll put it back to 1/2 size like it was and see what happens. Thanks again!

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         1. 84

            Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I changed the size of that first photo and it went all the way up from 55 to 56, but at least it looks a lot better.
            
            All of my hubs took some score cuts, some of which are greater than 5 points, now that I'm comparing them to my last data download. I haven't changed what I'm doing, and my earnings and site visits are hitting all-time highs, so I'm perplexed that the scores are going down rather than up. I'm emailing HP now and will let you all know what they say.

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            1. 72

               relacheposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I think that first part of that first sentence is a key point.  It would seem to indicate that some part of your overall strategy is no longer working.

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         2. 60

            tirelesstravelerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Are your pictures properly attributed? The learning center has information on giving proper credit for photography, even if its your own work.

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            1. 84

               Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, according to my lawyers, my pictures are properly attributed to me: I take all of my own photographs with my own camera and have done so since about my first year on HubPages. HubPages's statements are not legally binding in some countries and are less defensible in court even in the U.S. because they don't begin with the spelled out "Copyright" and they don't end in "All rights reserved."

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   2. 76

      CraftytotheCoreposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I took a look at it and I don't see anything that stands out to me as a reason for such a huge drop in score.

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      1. 84

         Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks, CraftytotheCore! I'm still waiting for official word from HP on what's going on. :-| Maybe they can shed some light on things. Cheers!

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   3. 73

      Matthew Meyerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      @Laura
      We recently revised HubScore to more accurately reflect the QAP ratings for Hubs.
      You can find further details in the blog post here.
      http://blog.hubpages.com/2013/07/summer … bberscore/

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      1. 84

         Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks again, Matthew Meyer! I'm checking it out now... Appreciate your help! --Laura

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         1. 84

            Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Okay, folks, here's what I've been able to figure out from reading about the new rules and regulations and whatnots. I promised I'd summarize what I'd learned, but this will probably lower my "reputation" on the site and further lower my scores. I'd better not get banned for quoting their own literature, however.
            
            According to the "new and improved" QAP process, I should have no complaint because this really is far and away the worst hub I've ever written (worse than my poetry!! by a lot) despite the fact that it has no grammatical, spelling, punctuation, or capitalization errors, is SEO-friendly, all pictures are correctly attributed--it includes 3 pictures I took with my own camera (which, at 600Mp, still aren't high-enough resolution to satisfy HP), a quiz, and links to 2 other articles (as well as the one of mine that's closely relevant to this one). It also has over 1,000 words in it, so it's not super short.
            
            I took the advice of several of you and deleted most of my chances of making money on this Hub (links to Ebay, since I'm not allowed to link to any Amazon any longer), shrunk the pictures down so they won't be meaningful on smart phones because the smart phone utility doesn't adjust picture size automatically like it should, and removed one quiz that might seem "promotional". I can't imagine why these actions wouldn't result in a lower, rather than higher, score, but the score is already back up to 59 (4 points higher than this morning when I noticed the 19-point drop that was a non-problem).
            
            It also sounds like, despite what they said before, you DO get punished if someone steals and publishes your work on a foreign website where DCMA can't get at them--and even so, they never re-check--once Google has banned a site--to verify whether your content is still duplicated or not--that red (C) stays there indefinitely, acting against you according to the improved AutoTurk (automated review algorithm) description.
            
            So, I guess I've learned that even if you do "everything right" you still need to be wary of trying to make any money on HP by linking to Ebay products or other relevant articles (since I can't link to Amazon) to keep people on HP longer and earn more money for them. Also, at any time an article may suddenly drop 19 points and hit the trash can no matter what the original hub score was for 6 months. Also, you need to be wary of writing hubs in response to questions (like mine was) because apparently they're held to some sort of different, unspecified standards than other kinds of hubs.
            
            If this hub of mine doesn't pop back up to where it was in a few days, I'll just delete it; no matter that it was part of a bigger, meaningful conversation with quality comments. I don't want it dragging down my other work/earnings potential.
            
            I'm going to write for a different site until this new improved "QAP" ("quality assessment process") gets un-improved back to where you can earn a few cents on this site (without Amazon capsule capability--thanks again for that extra hurdle, HP). I'll keep reading your work and participating, though: I'll just be hesitant to jeopardize my scores further by publishing anything for fear that the new QAP will slap it down hard and take all my other work with it. Two months ago I had a hubber score of 100 and an average hub score of 82. Today I woke up a 93 hubber with a 79 average hub score! I just hope all the junk I've read in the hopper gets similarly punished, but as a veteran editor (20+ years exp.) I see quite a few nasties as I peruse the "featured" articles onsite: AutoTurk isn't done with us yet.
            
            Be careful out there you guys... and hope nobody from a foreign country steals your work, too. It sounds from other forum posts that mine is just an extreme case of what's happening to everyone's work, so be prepared for falling numbers. I wish I had better news. Good luck everyone!!

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            1. 31

               Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I checked your Hub and there is no plagiarism of it now. (I ran it through Copyscape and checked half of it directly on Google.)  Did the staff respond to your email?

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               1. 84

                  Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  This article wasn't plagiarized; a bunch of my other work was. We apparently can't do anything if it's plagiarized by people in certain countries, yet we apparently CAN now still be punished for it. <shrugs>

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                     Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes you can do something about plagiarists in other countries.  If you have an issue with one of your other Hubs being stolen, send me an email and I'll try to help you with it.

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                     1. 84

                        Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Cool! The DCMA and Google said the particular country in question was untouchable, but I'll take all the help I can get! Thanks, Writer Fox!!

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            2. 73

               Matthew Meyerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               It also sounds like, despite what they said before, you DO get punished if someone steals and publishes your work on a foreign website where DCMA can't get at them--and even so, they never re-check--once Google has banned a site--to verify whether your content is still duplicated or not--that red (C) stays there indefinitely, acting against you according to the improved AutoTurk (automated review algorithm) description.
               
               This is not accurate.
               Your Hub was not moderated for duplicate content and other content online has no effect on QAP ratings.

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               1. 84

                  Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Correct, this particular hub in question was not moderated for duplicate content. I was reporting to the group of listeners what I learned when I read about the new rules put in place over the last few months, presumably mostly due to the new version of Google.
                  
                  One of the documents I read was the blog entry http://blog.hubpages.com/2013/04/contro … uestions/, which said that GOOGLE (Not the QAP, as I had mistakenly said) ranks copied content lower. In another such document/bog entry I also read about the "Google duplicate penalty", in which copied content on the internet (original or stolen--or legally sold usage rights, for that matter) is devalued by Google. I mistakenly thought that QAP also checked for copied content for us, which I thought was why some of my hubs that have been stolen have a perpetual red (c) next to them, whether I have been able to resolve the issue or not. From your remark, I gather they either no longer check for duplicate content or it isn't done during QAP (most likely the latter).
                  
                  Sorry for the confusion, Matthew--you've been nothing but helpful! :-)

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   4. 0

      writingsoloposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I found your hub while hopping hubs today (Was using my other account). I noticed that you removed the ads, and also that you made the photos smaller. It looks way better now. I think your score will increase.
      
      I want to suggest a few things: The white space beside the first photo looks odd; fill it with some text. You can change the title of second capsule to “My thought on what creation means” or something like that, and move the text from the first capsule in that.
      Also, if you link that question using an anchor text like: “What is creation?” or “Question: what is creation?” It will look more clean.
      
      Good Luck!!

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2. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   My guess is that it got QAPped and the assessor was not impressed.

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   1. 84

      Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It's not my best work, admittedly, but it's factually and logically correct and in response to a question someone asked, and got good responses. It's way better than my poetry any day. :-)

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3. 0

   writingsoloposted 10 years ago

   It's a great hub; and is very well written, but when I first saw it, it looked a bit over promotional to me; may be it's the ebay ads, links to your other hubs, etc. But than when I read it, I realized that the links are relevant to the topic.
   
   Even though it's a very beautifully written article, it looks a bit promotional, which may result in the low score.
   May be placing the ebay ads in a different capsule than that of the related links will help.
   I think you should remove those ebay ads from the hub, or at least switch them to text ads., and place them appropriately.

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   1. 84

      Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, writingsolo! I'll try that! Wish me luck! (Though, the links and ebay capsules were there before the score dropped... so there's still a mystery).

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4. 80

   moonlakeposted 10 years ago

   That's strange to drop that much. The only problem I saw was the huge photos in the thumbnail. I don't know if that would make a difference. Good luck in finding out what is going on.

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5. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   I didn't really get how the photos tied in for a while and don;t think they add very much.  Just my 2c.  It is good to make the core subject of the hub clear from the get go.

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6. 0

   mbuggiehposted 10 years ago

   I find it perplexing myself when hub scores decline and/or increase and I have done nothing to alter the content. What I do know, from experience, is this: If you let hubs go idle for more than a day or two and don't "tweek" them in some way, the scores will begin to decline. And, if you are idle for more than a day or two, your profile score will also decline.
   
   It appears that the key to maintaining high hub/profile scores is actively engaging with your own hubs and with the hubs of others.
   
   I hope this helps some.

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7. 88

   Cardisaposted 10 years ago

   I took a look at your hub and the first two capsules don't impress me at all. If I was a reader I would skip to another more interesting article.
   
   The first section of your article should captivate your reader and make them want to read the rest. Your first subtitle reads "This Article Was Created..."; the second subtitle reads "The Scope of This Article". When in fact your first subtitle should answer your title question "What is Creation?" Subtitles should contain relevant keywords related to your article. You need to remember that Google crawls subtitles as well.
   
   You can mention that your article responds to a question while answering the question itself.
   
   Your third subtitle says "Creation vs. Destruction. Is that Really the Case?" but there is no comparison as far as I can see. That particular capsule has photos not the comparison you implied.
   
   The fourth subtitle is where you define the question which means for readers to find your answer they have to scroll below the fold.
   
   The two first paragraphs I mentioned above can be placed at the end of the article while placing your definition at the beginning of the article.
   
   Also, I am not seeing the correlation between the photos and the article.

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   1. 84

      Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'll just delete the stupid article. What a fuss all this is. When you write a hub in response to a question, the first thing it begins with is what question you're responding to, which is why that first paragraph is there. The second paragraph disclaims the fact that I'm not going into the further detail requested by the original poser of the question, Emanate Presence.
      
      This is why humans and AutoTurk fail to rank articles correctly. If the reader is not interested or educated in the subject, they will rate the article down. I'd rate an article on makeup or men's shoes down because I'm just not interested in those subjects so I wouldn't read carefully enough to understand the author's point or why the author included the pictures they did: it's human nature. Ask Emanate Presence and the other commenter on the article, however, and they will probably tell you that the pictures and analogies and sub-headings make perfect sense to them: they're into philosophy and remember enough physics to keep up with the subject matter.
      
      Never mind; I'll just delete the bloody thing and send copies to Emanate Presence and the other commenter, who were interested in the article because it was part of our conversation on philosophy.

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      1. 83

         gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Don't delete your hub.  You have put a lot of hard work towards this hub.  Just see what can be improved, either the text or the picture.  You have worked far too hard to delete the hub.  This hub has some excellent points.  Just improve the hub via pictures and media.

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         1. 84

            Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for the encouragement, gmwilliams! I really needed it. This was one of the hardest hubs I've ever written, and one I was most proud of; I was shocked to see it tank this morning.
            
            I think I know what I fundamentally did wrong: I answered the question posed in the Q&A, which is what I thought that button/feature was for--what I thought we were supposed to do. Instead, I should have written a stand-alone article aimed at a 4th grade audience (average level of functional education in the US) who knows nothing about physics or philosophy.
            
            When I get around to it, I'll try to come up with simpler analogies that people can grasp and that I can photograph. LOL
            
            Thanks again! :-)

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            1. 83

               gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               You are quite welcome indeed!

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      2. 88

         Cardisaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I hope I didn't offend you with my post. I was genuinely trying to help by pointing out what may have caused a low rating. As I mentioned you can adjust the first section to both answer the question and explain why you wrote the article. Sorry if I upset you. Don't delete your article on account of me.

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         1. 84

            Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            No, no--you didn't offend me. It's just the unexpectedly low score and everything piled up.
            
            When you click the button to spawn an article based on a question, that's the text that appears, that's all. I didn't write that in there, to the best of my recollection. I thought we weren't supposed to change that part, either: the link back to the original question.
            
            You didn't offend me, I'm just in a blue mood. I won't delete the article. I'll publish this article somewhere else and write an appropriate article for HP readers. It's okay, I'm a big kid with usually much thicker skin than right now. :-) No hard feelings.

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8. 31

   Writer Foxposted 10 years ago

   But, did the staff answer your email?

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   1. 84

      Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, they said they couldn't do anything about the plagiarism.
      
      Yes, they also answered my question about this particular hub: it is exactly what Matthew posted publicly--to go read the documentation about the new AutoTurk and whatnot "improvements" in the approval process. Since not many people are interested in or aware of physics as it relates to philosophy, I think that's why this article scored so low. It was in reading about the new AutoTurk and other improvements in the approval process that I learned we would now be punished somehow for having our content plagiarized.

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      1. 31

         Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for the information.  It's a bummer.

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         1. 84

            Laura Schneiderposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            What can ya do, right? (Depends on how much feedback they get.) I think they could fairly easily forbid copy/paste from the site pages, which would at least tame a few offenders. (Just like you can disable right-clicking to save pictures off pages. At least they could do that.) Oh, well. Just something I picked up along the way that was fairly shocking.

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9. 79

   LeanManposted 10 years ago

   Personally I feel the MTurk and QAP process is flawed somewhere; I have hubs of similar structure that don't have grammatical errors etc that are 20 points different even though they have similar levels of traffic etc..
   I can see little difference between my higher scoring hubs and my lower scoring hubs..
   I have also seen hubs dive 15 points for no apparent reason after I have added extra photos and text capsules!
   I have also noticed that my scores only head in one direction - downwards... unless i make an update then they climb briefly but reduce again later often below where they started.
   
   I am only looking as I am concerned regarding the no follow for a hubber score of 85..
   
   As to my individual hubs Google does not care what their score is... Of my top three performing hubs which are seeing triple figure traffic; two are in the 70's and one in the 80's

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      Writer Foxposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      My top Hub for Google traffic right now has a score of 72.  I have another Hub that had more than 19,000 visits in the past 30 days and it has a score of 81. The scores are no indication of what Google quality is.  After seven years, and millions of dollars in VC funding, HP still doesn't understand how search engines analyze a webpage.
      
      The QAP has gone well beyond routing out spam and thin content.  I often postpone editing a Hub because I know it goes through the QAP again where someone who is getting paid 5¢ is going to glance at a 5,000 word Hub and rate it on a score card that bears little resemblance to the one Google Quality Raters use.

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10. 77

    PoeticPhilosophyposted 10 years ago

    Oooooh, this explains the radical drop in my recently posted hub. Hahaha I had thought it was the group of people I had a bicker-fest with. My bad.

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