Why can't people on Hubpages disagree without attacking others?
Opposing positions can lead to a better understanding. Personal attacks say a lot about the commenters' inability to discuss a matter intelligently.
I agree. Personally I think it is basic human instinct to "defend" ones self when they feel that something has hit them personally. Generally, it is my opinion, that 85% of people REACT before they RESPOND. I do not think that people look at a subject or comment and realize that it is someone's opinion. How peaceful would this world be if we could all have the ability to discuss instead of attack or demean another person simply for a stated opinion!?
I agree Mandy and you can still have a robust, exciting conversation. without telling someone their mother wears combat boots.
I had to laugh at the mother wears combat boots statement - I haven't heard it since high school - you make a very good point!
Diane, this is an excellent question. I would suggest that 90% of readers would just assume the implied negativity toward "personal attacks". Rules prohibiting it are somewhere in every online "forum" I can think of. But I think that it might just go too far. Many things are opinion and often opinions are personal. So if I venture an opinion that all homeless people are drunks. I am entitled to that opinion. And likewise you should be entitled to your opinion that I am an ignorant bigot. Did I personally attack homeless? Yes and as a group. Are you personally attacking ignorant bigots? Yes and as a group.
So then we say, that Diane's comment was directly pointed at Eric. And Eric's was simply a statement of opinion about a group of people and a societal ill. Maybe that is accurate. But to stomp out hateful bigotry we have to change people and Eric should be personally attacked.
More realistically this happens with Race, Religion, Politics, and things like gun control and same sex marriages.
A big example of how we get screwed up on attacking personal attacking is implication. We have a Black President. Many people disagree with his policies. We have heard many times "they are attacking the President because he is black". Happily this is happening less and less and less. That is cool.
But now we see policy decisions where the President directly personally identified a relation to a victim of violence, saying he could have been his son or even himself, had things been different and the only common denominator is race. And that is about prosecuting a non-black for attacking a black. Well now that is a very personal issue that effects our nation. So one would be right to attack the President personally, because he made it personal. And me, personally? I think it is all politics.
"So if man is motivated by things that personally happened to him, who are we to ignore him personally?"
And think of the negative reverse problem. Do we just want to walk and write around this big world impersonally. Do we only want to hear things in matter of fact tones without personal involvement. I want people to care about me as a person. That might take some tough love.
(I do not speak of the grammatically PC manner in which to speak to another)
I couldn't have said it better, Eric. :-)
Abbey let us keep speaking our mind. And looking for what we agree with. I think your haircut is perfect but you dark clothes not right.
Eric an opinion is fine. What's bad is, "You are so stupid if you believe that." There are certainly people who do that. If they don't do it to you ... great! I know you thought I was addressing you and white people - I said no such thing.
Eric, are you speaking of my avatar pic? Maybe I should have wore red instead. I will work on it. LOL. Have a wonderful weekend.
Diane, I did not catch your comment yesterday. I did not think you were addressing races here. I used race as example because that is personal. White is just part of me. But it is only half of my son ;-)
Eric, I have a host of white people who are very dear to my heart. I'm in a multiethnic church, neighborhood, and school. I would never paint a whole race with a broad brush. http://dianetrotter.hubpages.com/hub/whiteheroine I will take care of he
I am in a ethnic centric church. I am the only white person there. And I have issues with it. Language was the reason, but 2nd gen. is changing that. It fits with this topic. Because like personal attacks language can be a barrier.
Diane - I thought about asking this same question yesterday but didn't thinking I would be attacked. LOL. You are a brave woman.
When it comes to very sensitive issues here on the HP Answers section, I try to be as diplomatic as possible. However, I know this is the internet as well, and the "written" word is not always taken the way I intend it to be meant. I try to understand that others' answers may come across to me in a way that is unintentional as well. However, there are some who really do "attack." You can read it in their words, especially when they say things like "All conservatives are racists" and they know that I'm a conservative. That irritates me to no end because I would never say to the liberals, "All liberals are [fill in the blank with negatives]." When it comes to religion, some will even use the tactic, "I would think that Christians would..." when they know you believe in God and go against the "norm" of Christianity. People are funny. But, I have had one woman here in the Answers section that will blatantly attack me in these ways no matter what the topic is. I just overlook it and ignore her as I know she must be a very unhappy person and feels the need to ruin my day.
All we can do is NOT stoop to their levels and kill them with kindness. Don't let them ruin your day, Diane.
Abby you relate my experiences also. Probably you are right ignoring and kindness are valuable and make our points better than what we my otherwise say sometimes.
Thanks for commenting, Eric. Trust me, there are times I wish to say certain things, but I refrain because I know it will only make the situation worse. I've learned to not take things as persona as I use to. Still, there are tough times.
I agree Abby. Would you believe I am a conservative Christian also? Actually I'm labeling myself "moderate" because I'm too intelligent to go wholesale with someone else's agenda. It depends on the subject and the info I have. Thanks Abby!
Diane - I guess I'm more moderate as well. I figured you were the same just from your other questions. Many think all black people are liberals, but I have a ton of black friends who are more conservative than me. So, yes, I can believe it. :-)
As I have stated in multiple other questions like this I think some feel things are personal attacks that aren't. In our disagreement in another question you stated you felt there were personal attacks. In my opinion there were none unless it was deleted and I didn't see it. The comments section of an answer never leaves enough space to state full thoughts so I believe sometimes that can cause confusion because a person is not able to explain their full sentence or statement. Actually I see many people on HP complain about attacks and I rarely see those attacks. I see plenty of disagreeing but only minimal name calling. Maybe some see them both as attacks. Personally I think the majority of the problem lies in not being able to interpret tone and intent through the computer.
If for some reason it was me you were speaking about in the other question I do apologize as nothing I stated was intended to be an attack. I might not agree with you (and often wish I had more space to explain myself), but I in no way ever mean to make anyone feel as if I have attacked them
Good point. In a previous job, most communication I had with coworkers was email based and very to the point (much like responding to a comment). It's very hard to determine tone and feeling behind most comments, so it's best to not try.
I totally agree with this. Many see debate as "attack". Debate is still tactful and direct. Name calling = attack. Disagreement and stating ideas or disagreement not an attack. Written communication does have challenges.
I always try to be mindful of what I type. Sometimes our thoughts aren't translated on to a computer screen the way we intended to say something.
However, having said that, I've only been on Hubpages for a short time and I feel more comfortable here than most other public forums.
When someone posts something to anything I write, if it appears they don't agree with me, I welcome the opportunity to get a better understanding of their perspective. I try to be open-minded and learn from how others feel about something because I know everyone has a right to expression.
What disappoints me though, is when someone misinterprets something I've said which they turn in to a flaming war or battlegrounds for mob mentality. (That's never happened to me on Hubpages but it has happened before, even in real life.)
Crafty, I think you understand where I'm coming from. And the fact that you have an opinion different from others doesn't make you an evil or stupid person.
Welcome to HP, Crafty! I have really enjoyed my time here, and for the most part, we don't have too many issues. But, there will always be the one. Your answer is right on target. I like what you said about "perspective." Have a great weekend! :-)
Crafty, I look forward to reading more of your wisdom. You make good points.
It's not a hubpages thang....it's an internet thang. People get too brave writing from a safe location. 99% of the time, they would never have the balls to say those same things straight to someone's face.
There is an old saying I learned from a politician that says it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.
Everyone has not gotten the message. I have left pointed messages for some people. I have been threatened with damnation because I choose to be a Catholic. I have been accused of being bias because of my past association with the oil and gas industry. I have been accused of trying to rewrite the constitution.
Some subjects are going to generate heated responses. That is unfortunate, but often emotions and personal views make it impossible to accept the fact that someone else may have a different view to which he is entitled, even if you disagree with it.
Also, I think the comment part of the question section was a mistake. With that feature you sometimes have multiple issues being discussed, but the length of the comment space makes it difficult to fully explain your viewpoint.
True Larry. Some people can't even discuss the issue because they are calling you an idiot, stupid, bound for hell, or some ridiculous stuff. You are a good guy Larry. I like you!
You are so right, Larry. I have seen this in other threads, especially when it comes to your opinions especially. Sometimes I want to say something so badly, but it's like feeding my pearls to swine unfortunately. Can't discuss with those attitudes.
Larry Wall is synonymous with "gentleman". and Dianetrotter with "lady".
If some one personally attacks you, they attack what I strive to emulate. So it would be personal to me. Yes I am synonymous with "bulldog". Thanks Diane for a great discussion.
My thanks to all of you for your kind comments. I think this is the most praised I have received for one day in my life. I should forward this to my old boss--but I will not do that.
It is because many people let their instincts rule instead of using inductive and deductive logic. The human being wants to believe that she/he is correct regarding his/her premise. When others disagree with that premise, he/she feels attacked and goes into the attack mode as an act of retaliation and to prove his/her point.
Many people are ruled by ego. This ego makes people believe that their opinion is correct. In fact, beyond the opinion being correct, many people contend that their opinion is the only legitimate and correct one. These people assert that those who disagree with them are "in the dark", "uneducated", "unenlightened", and "clearly are amiss" regarding the issues at hand. It takes a mature and evolved person to realize the validity in different opinions. Many people are not at that evolved level of acceptance.
You are always gracious and kind, I am surprised anyone would attack you Diane.
I think the anonymity of the Internet makes one braver, but I also think it is hard to judge a person’s intent or feelings without body language and facial expression. I think how often acquaintances, friends or family have expressed some of the views that press my buttons and realize it has always ended without a problem and rarely did anyone leave with hurt feeling or anger. Maybe we all should take a deep breath and ask ourselves “would I say this to someone’s face” before we press the enter button.
However I am also thinking if we want to take part in the internet discussion format we may have to grow thicker skin and learn to push the “ignore button” in our head.
I agree. It is a matter of growth. Not all that say Lord, Lord, will enter into the Kingdom of heaven. Not all that go to church on Sundays either. Point here is that we all see things from our own perspective. Even ten year olds believe that their word is best, nowadays.
Seriously, the spiritual journey is a ladder with different rungs. Naturally the man on the fiftieth rung will have a much better view than the one on the 4th. Divine Spirit does not tell us where we are. Still, we know that the professor of maths is likely to be a lot better at it, than the kindergarten child. In the same way, there is a hierarchy in the spiritual life. Not so formal, but it has its saints and other advanced souls.
In a family of seven, the older brother or sister is sometimes required to guide. They are not special, but naturally have a little more knowledge by being here for a while. Thus it behoves the younger ones to listen. Does not always happen and to an extent, this is perhaps what you are finding.
The mind is developed and division sets in, as well as ego, and so problem arises. Ignorance is increased when I see things one way and you see it a different way. Wisdom, accompanied by love, dictates that we should be quiet sometimes and humble at others, for at certain moments, this is the best course. It is all a matter of growth or consciousness. Hope this helps.
Pleased to meet you Manatiti44. We grow from glory to glory. Are you new to Hubpages. I'll have to read your profile. Nice to meet you and agree with you!
Please to meet you too. I am a God-lover. No. I am not new. I write both prose and poetry of the sublime, lofty and esoteric nature. Yes. Do stop by, Diane. Cute smile.
Hello, Diane.....Nice to meet you. "Attacks" are not unique to Hubpages. As with most comments here, I'll agree that this occurs quite regularly "online." However, IMHO, it goes beyond this concept.
I will safely assume that you (and most of us) see this clearly and often, in bodies of work, questions and/or forum discussions, focused on "Religion and Politics." I refer to those 2 subjects as The TOXIC TWO. Simply cruise through HP and this FACT is undeniable.
"Most" positions can lead to better understanding, as you state. Better understanding, more often than not, is beyond probable, when individuals hold a firm, committed, unmoving stance. Of all the positions one may hold, we are hard-pressed, I'm afraid, to find any more rigid or more highly emotional, than R&P!........I trust we can all agree on THIS reality, at least.
When these "disagreements," reach the level of high anxiety, anger and frustration, human nature kicks in, with the "Attack," mode. This includes nearly every personality type, despite level of civility, education, background and/or degree of self-control.
I love your comment, "Personal attacks say a lot about the commenters' inability to discuss a matter intelligently." As such, I will close with my own question.....
How many readers here, have immediately thought of our Great, Wise and All Powerful POLITICIANS....as they campaign and debate one another.....to win the position of responsibility & service, they each covet??
Good question, Diane. Thank you.
Please to meet you fpher48! Don't forget racial issues. Politics - the opponent is Satan til he's your wonderful running mate. I hate people calling me and telling me ho to vote for. We benefit by exchange of ideas - don't have to agree.
Diane...I stand duly corrected, but am happy to say, racial issues never entered my mind. My family & close circle of friends is The United Nations! LOL......True, healthy exchange IS beneficial. You are wise.
Hello, Diane. I'm a newbie on Hubpages. I've been reading some of the discussion threads and I have seen some of the personal attacks. So far, what I've seen on here is not as bad as what I've seen on some of the other sites (not necessarily writers' forums). I used to be an ebay seller and some of those forums were really down and dirty...I mean really awful personal attacks. Could it be that simple courtesy for another person's perspective and opinion is outmoded? I was hesitant to participate in the community here because of past online experience. Who wants to speak up when you'll be treated like an imbecile or when the "charter member oldies" think you are trying to overstep your (low) position and dare to voice your thoughts? I haven't seen so much of that here. Very nice to meet you, by the way!
I've wondered this very thing myself, Diane. People have called me things on HubPages before that surprised me truly, just because my opinion differed from their own. It's disappointing to see that some are so fixed in their opinion that, if someone else simply states their own, it immediately becomes a "threat" to them that they must "defend" themselves or their position by any means necessary and that usually consists of making accusations and name calling. This has really made me avoid certain topics because I feel that it just isn't worth beating my head against a brick wall when I was under the impression that we were all here to talk among not against others. Differences are important, we all grow and learn from them and I feel that we should never only be among our own like-minded all of the time, where is the development and life experience in that?!
Excellent topic, Diane. Be blessed, my dear.
Hi Diane, to be honest, I had many who disagree with me, but only was a personal attack. And it was a huge one. I wonder what would have happened if I ever met that person face to face. That would be very interesting, for me anyway:)
You're handling it well. You are being more than fair postage some of the garbage and responded. Good strategy though! "Be silent and be thought a fool. Speak and remove all doubt." Someone should tell him.
lol, he never actually listens to anyone. I have read some of his hubs. He is always the only correct one. I had to keep laughing one even was the "fact" Russia was a better place to live then the U,S.A.
May be reacting and replying to annoying answers and comments that don't make sense and arguing with stubborn people made them that way.
I find that as soon as people start nit-picking things like spelling and grammar, or resorting to personal attacks, they've taken the argument to be a personal attack even if it was not meant to be one.
It's mostly a misunderstanding, but some people are quite aloof, too. Some of the indictments people have against others are justified, but their replies shouldn't be accusatory and condescending.
Love your neighbor as if they were one of your own family, someone you care about. Even if we disagree, we can discuss things like adults without cursing each other. I would hope anyway, but this isn't a perfect world.
I don't think that's entirely true. I've been on HubPages for a few months now, and I don't think I've ever found someone attacking another person through the comments based on their difference of belief.
Actually, I was trying to express my difference of opinion once, and the blogger thought that I was attacking him. I think our society, in general, has really pushed the idea that if you're not on someone's side, that must mean you're against them. I find that conversation really helps to gain more knowledge, and questions help with gaining intelligence rather than insinuating you're trying to insult someone's intelligence.
Personally, I love discussing topics such as philosophy and religion, and I find the best ways to discuss those topics is by understanding and maintaining patience rather than feeling attacked and refusing to talk about it further. Discussion isn't to insult, it is meant to make a person think about their beliefs or ideas and express them in a way that can help others to better understand.
Go to the Religion and Philosophy Forums where one sees ACTION. All in all, hubbers love and respect one another. Disagreement is expected and many hubbers are mature enough to realize that!
gm, I was thinking, I'd love to have experiences like those who never seem to have iddues. You and I have participated on some discussion under religion. I try to stay away from philosophy because I'm, sure it gets fierce there.
Yes, it gets QUITE FIERCE there. The Religion and Philosophy Forums are my REALITY shows so to speak. This forum is like blood gladiator sport of the verbal kind. Another one are the Political Forums, they're a HOOT!
Gm I stopped participating in all of that because of the stress. "Ain't nobody got time for that!"
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by PrettyPanther 10 years ago
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