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just because they don’t agree with you?
Pcunix took one of my hubs commented on it then proceeded to write his own hub on it and posted a forum on it just because he did not agree with me? Then throughout the forum post he started to put me down personally. Has this happened to you? Do you think that course of action is respectful?
That sounds kind of silly to me. I won't comment about Pcunix, as I barely know the guy, and I didn't read every post he put up in that forum; outside of the op.
However, if it's any consolation, I have a general idea on how you feel. When there used to be one user called iounn, he accused me stealing somebody else's hub in another person's hub and in forums, just because they read my "children of men" review. he allegedly claimed that the hub was about a woman smoking, and that's how he knew it was stolen, which is funny because if he had read that entire hub, then he would've realized i was reviewing the science fiction movie, "CHILDREN OF MEN." The woman smoking part was simply I metaphor I used that the director of the film was quoted as saying, to depict the world that movie takes place in. Therefore, that's why I used it. Anyways, I'm sorry for getting off point there, and didn't mean to hijack your thread for a moment. However, I do have a general idea on how you feel.
Although I don't think Pcunix meant any harm by it though, as he kind of strikes me as a level headed guy. However, it might be best to just ask him directly about this issue if it bothers you that much, or contact hubpages staff if you feel there's a threat.
I didn't see pcunix's comments as "bashing" you - he strongly disagreed with you
I would think that if someone had a problem with me, and called me out personally I would probably be mad, especially if I find out that person is then using my content to promote themselves. The my hub is better then Brimancandy's hub might make me mad, but, it would also make me laugh.
But, it would also depend on why they are slamming me. If it is simply over my content. (that has happened.) I could care less. But, if is something about me personally, like my views on gay issues or the endless you'll burn in hell comments. Then I have a problem with that.
I'm a fairly easy going guy, so it takes a lot to make me mad. But, I have developed tough skin from constant ridicule outside of hubpages from people who have nothing better to do than bash people they don't like.
I usually just ignore them.
Also hubpages is too vast to believe that anyone would steal your content. And, even if they did, what would come out of it? It's not like people are going to stop looking for what you write. They can't copy everything, that would be way too obvious. Those are the people who get reported.
I think its absolutely fine to do this and extremely respectful. A hub is a site of absolute power for the hubber. As the owner of the hub you can refuse to publish adverse comments and create a completely false sense of how your opinions have been received.
PCunix did the respectful thing of hubbing his opinion and then exposing that opinion on a forum, where he has much less control.
You have done the same by posting this thread
This is a very good model for those who have the courage of their convictions.
No I don't. No-one should get bashed. We are all different, not necessarily wrong or right. We need to respect each other and always smile when the going gets rough.
Ohhh hi there my dear dear buddy. Big hugs for you.
same for you Just watch out so my hockey stick does not poke you
He did not attack you personally, he merely strongly disagreed. I seen this big argument the other day. The more you continue to push that he was attacking you personally, then it only makes you look bad.
I understand your perspective though, but when people disagree, sometimes they often think its a personal attack. This is a stereotypical idea
This seems to be a fairly open, lightly moderated forum. So I would say it is probably within what HP allows. Both the hub and the thread are about your content and his reaction to it. That is kind of how communities work. We can agree to disagree. I don't see what he did as bashing, more like rebutting. You can either engage with him and debate it further, or not.
I think any comments as long as not personal attacks are ok in forum debate.
But I do not agree with Anyone attacking someones hub by writing about it in their own.
I don,t always agree with things I read,but hey it is the writers opinion.And I hope I am opened minded and intelligent enough to form my own opinion.
I just read the forum rules (I hadn't noticed them before) and they say that "personal attacks, petty bickering, and thread hijacking will be dealt with swiftly."
If you just don't like what he's doing, but he's not doing one of the above three things, you may not like it but nothing wrong is happening. By trying to get a whole bunch of people angry with you, it seems like you are trying to attack him and get others to help you.
Why don't you just email him? Why do you need to make this into some sort of flame war?
I would simply have emailed Pcunix, and asked him what he thought he was doing.
I understand if a person disagrees with a point that you make on a hub and leaves a comment, but to write a hub on your hub to rebuttal it then to point it out in the forum, which by the way he presented it nice enough but along the way became more rude and I noticed that he took out the part about me being subservient to my husband.
Just was curious if this happened to others. I have been writing here for 8 months and I have had a great experience with the people on hubpages.
I don't see anything wrong with that, people have a right to disagree and lots of hubbers write hubs in response to other hubs.
Dawn, I think it is disrespectful. I love your excellent hubs about marriage. It's a difference between a disagreement and someone saying that your hub is dangerous. Your hubs is not dangerous, but very helpful. Putting a person down is a insult.
Dawn you seem be angry and upset, not "just curious".
You actually want to attack PCunix. That's fine by me. It doesn't mean that you, or he is a bad malevolent person.
And to suggest your ideas are dangerous is a compliment!
If only . .if only someone would say I had a dangerous idea!!!!!
Dawn, I referenced your hub from mine so that people could read it for themselves. I know it has brought you traffic, and yet you complain.
Once again, you force me to repeat what I have said over and over again: I know you mean well. I know you do not condone abuse.
However, your blatant refusal to entertain any point of view contrary to your own is amazing.
Not every relationship has to include male dominance. Not ever marriage falls apart if the wife earns more money. But these are things you say MUST be true.
Your hub can be used as an excuse fore bullying. It could also cause unhappiness just from expectations that the other partner does not share.
Once again, I agree that your advice might help some. It may even be helpful to many who have the same stereotyped opinions you have. But it can be dangerous or harmful for others.
I hate to keep repeating myself, but you just don't seem to want to let go of it. Other people in other forums have told you that they agree with me - peope have even left comments at your hubs saying that. But you stubbornly insist that I am "attacking" you.
I'm not, Dawn. I'm only trying to get you to see that your all encompassing position is not the only way for people to live.
By the way, I have not edited out anything, so I have no idea what you are referring to when you say I "edited out" something. I have not.
By the way, I invite everyone to go read my hub on Male Dominance. I think you will see that it does not "attack" Dawn in any way. It simply expresses disagreement.
As far as harassing goes, I'd like to see this arguing die, but Dawn seems to be very angry and won't let it go. I feel badly about that, but there it is. I can't very well ignore her when she tells people that I am viciously attacking her.
Again: I know she means well and would never condone abuse. She is simply not aware that her words coud help justify such for some people and could bring unhappiness to other marriages because of unmet expectations.
That's not an attack. That's concern for other people. Her advice may be very useful for some and I have said that over and over and over
I think a hubber that has enough backbone to post a debate about your topic (or any topic)and is kind enough to show readers the way to your hub so they can make an educated opinion, is doing just what Hubpages is designed to do. The action of itself is causing a wider range of readers to visit your hub and continue the cycle of hubtivity.
If one hubber gets over excited and speaks out-of-turn, possibly an "I'm sorry" is in order, but it doesn't become a violation just because another view of the topic is offered. In all cases, if you treat people with kindness and an open mind, the results will become something everyone can appreciate regardless of their opinion.
~Always choose love~
You have repeatedly stated that my hub is dangerous, I am a professional marriage counselor writing hubs to help people in their marriage that are going through difficult times, and you say that my hub is dangerous, you don’t see that as a direct attack on my reputation? Many people do not even take the time to read what is true or not. Yes you are entitled to your own opinion, but there are people on the forum now making comments on me that I know for a fact they have not even taken the time to look at my bio or my work.
I am just curious if this what is normal here or just you getting ticked off by a word in my hub and broadcasting it?
I find it surprising that a professional marriage counsellor would promote "dominance". You took Pcunix's comments as personal attack, but he is disagreeing with your hub, not you as a whole person.
A lot of people disagree with opinions in hubs or forums, and write their own hubs to illustrate their own points.
promote dominance...you are joking right
Baileybear, I though you didn't read my hubs, now I know you haven't....See this is exactly what I have been saying!!!!!!!!
If you have read many of my hubs and come up with the conclusion that I promote dominance, controlling, abuse, or the such you have been smoking a little to much of that weed old Baileybear.
Yes I am a marriage counselor but I am not a traditional therapist, I work with couples sex lives, intimate lives.......
Sexual dysfunction form cancer or hormones, health issues (anti depressants, OCD, ADHD)
People who have been abused, men and women, raped, molested
Ways to improve sex in marriage
Helping people to communicated with one another to improve the intimacy in marriage
Sexually pent up men and women,
People who have a sexless marriage
People who are not able to achieve an orgasm
The list goes on and on…………………..
Yes, that was harsh.
Dawn I read your hub twice.
Clearly you are not used to people disagreeing with you. You have are over-reacting by attacking me personally - I have never smoked weed, and at 38 I am not "old".
I would have expected a marriage counsellor to display more maturity than that. What are your credentials, BTW?
I do not see how it is fair to accuse Pcunix of "bashing" - he did the right thing by writing his own OPINION in his own hub, just like you put your OPINION. People have a right to disagree with opinions. Pcunix was maintained his integrity and self-respect in disagreeing.
That more than one person sees it like Pcunix does, may indicate your hub is not clear. Or if that is exactly what you meant, then people are entitled to disagree without being personally attacked. My previous respect for you is evaporating.
People have written hubs after reading mine - some agree with me; some don't. It's fine for people to do that. I took it as a compliment that someone went off and wrote their own view.
And, I happen to be female - I have the stereotypically "male" trait of being objective - another reason I disagree with the old stereotypes of male and female expected behaviours
But don't professionals within every field have disagreements - even with their fellow workers? Isn't there a lot to be said about a person's character and personality by looking at the way they face disagreements?
What I am seeing within this thread is some of the very most respectful, objective, and well-balanced expressions of disagreement that I have seen - indeed from anyone expressing disagreement - or that I can imagine seeing from anyone who has a strong opinion on a given subject.
I haven't read either of the Hubs yet, yours or Pcunix's. I will do so. But so far, my opinion is that you may possibly be overreacting.
---- Good comment by puebloman!
I dont know is Pcunix a professional sexologist? ......lol
Now that would be for an interesting hub.
Probably not but he is a professional writer and does manage to make his point clearly, I would not be too quick to reject his comments on a hub of mine.
@ John Holden, "I would not be too quick to reject his comments on a hub of mine." Perfectly said!
John I have no problem with him making a comment on my hub? I am just wondring if it is normanl to make a counter hub on someone elses hub and then to post a forum topic on the hub stating that it is a dangerous hub and then on down the line of comments, it going to promote abuse of women........That is a professional point that I should take clearly? Does that have to do with writing....he did correct a spelling mistake of mine which I have to go back and fix though.....
So he did that with one of your hubs? wrote about it then posted in the forum....which one did he do that to?
It's pretty normal - many Hubbers write rebuttal hubs about a topic that they disagree with.
Personally, if someone did that with one of my hubs, I would be pleased that I had done my job as a writer and stimulated debate. Plus, extra traffic is also welcome
Fire away, although you might have to dig deep to find the non-commercial ones (unless you want to write a rebuttal about septic tanks or portable toilets!)
Dun know about the US but a lot of UK press involves one writer offering (without permission) criticism of another's work, often with the gloves off. PC didn't accuse you of being the son of a demented wart hog or suggest that you should get a day job as your writing would never keep you or anyone of a thousand comments that would really be offensive but still published.
If you were to present that hub to a professional journal you would expect criticism from your peers and very short shrift if you defended yourself by accusing them of not considering your qualifications or intentions.
If PC was the only person to offer that objection then you would be best just to ignore it,however, he wasn't, a good few others share his misgivings and have expressed them clearly.
PC has never offered a critique on a hub of mine but if he did, I would welcome it, however scathing because I know writers often make the worst editors of their own work and we never have enough time to put work aside long enough to forget it and read it with a fresh eye
wow John, you are hot under the collar today.......good to know that you can let a little steam off...son of a demented wart hog never the less....no he did not call me that I am sure of it...maybe a submissive wife or subservient, (by the way my husband loved that one...lol)
Yes my hubs would not do well on the professional journal line since I have not written them for a professional journal. Nor do I intend to for the simple fact that they don’t get read, sadly so....Just had a discussion with my cousin about that, she has her Dr. in psychology clinical and it just doesn’t get read on the internet like it should. Plus, I would have to get an editor with all of my spelling mistakes, even though I do spell check.
Of course Dear John, those misgiving were from people who say the word and did not bother to read the article first such as bailybear did.
But you did so hats off to you......
I am going to pour myself a cup of tea now...
How fascinating. You preach male dominance but you don't practise it?
By the way, I am quite sure BaileyBear read your hub.
No, not hot under the collar at all. Not being too dominant am I? :-)
In fact just the opposite. My friend came round to see me today and said she was leaving her partner. She is fed up of being dominated, treated like an ESN teenager, told that she should stay at home whilst he is at work and all that.
The idea of PJs is not to be well read but be read well and tested by peer review.
BTW how many would have to view your hub before you might consider that some of your words could have been better chosen?
It's long past tea drinking time here so I won't pour myself a cup.
tired of the false accusations - I did read it - twice
I agree with John that it is difficult for any of us to be adequate editors of our own work, and the difficulty goes far beyond conventions of language such as spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
That value of an outside editor relates to the problem that I have had with dawnM's Hubs and even forum posts. I have had to read them 2-3 times to understand them - not because of any particular depth in their content, and not because they were particularly thought-provoking, but because they do not express clearly what she is trying to express. The fact that she keeps coming back over and over to say "That is not what I meant" (or other words to that effect) speaks volumes to me.
In praise of good editing....
Okay, lol. I should have taken the time to connect the dots better. It seemed clear and obvious to me at the time.
The point is that you as a professional should be able and prepared to accept disagreement, even criticism, from and by others, since even professionals disagree with one another at times. Being criticized by someone does not make a person less of a professional. Criticism of your doctrines does not constitute a "direct attack" on your reputation.
I have now read what I could of the various Hubs referenced. You do not want to hear my opinion.
Rebuttal Hubs are fine, IMO - if we all agreed about everything, HP would be a dull place. As long as it doesn't get personal, then I can't see a problem - I read his Hub (and yours)and his tone is respectful throughout, and the arguments are rationally presented.
You can choose to ignore the Hub, comment, or write your own rebuttal to the rebuttal!
I have read both of them dawnM. Even as I understand where you are coming from in terms of your hubs, it doesn't change the question you rise within the forum. I get your thought process regarding a dominant role within a male, female relationship and that the man is generally the protector and provider. Male dominance is not a subject I have any right to discuss, as I don't live in that world.
In returning to the query you post, the challenge of your disapproval toward Pcunix about hub hijacking, I just don't think this was his intent or goal at all. He states clearly that he means no disrespect both in comments and in forum, but he simply has another view on the issue.
Personally, I found your hubs a very good read, with good information for those who live in that world. Again, I am not equipped to discuss the topic as I have no first hand experience with it, so my opinion starts off in a bias state, and that does not make for a good read! I respect your work and your education and would not begin to question your studied work or advice.
I hope this all works out for the best for you! I will continue to read your work.
~Always choose Love~
Being an expert doesn't make one opinion above question, it doesn't make one immune from being considered 'dangerous', it doesn't mean opposing views should be suppressed. It does mean one should have had a lot of practice explaining one's position in clear terms accessable to laypeople. Read your advice as coming from, and useful to, people will a certain world view. But not without its limitations and possibilities for abussive misinterpretation when it comes from people who see the world differently.
I'm going to try again.
Dawn, your hub asserts that male dominance is wired into our DNA and that couples who ignore that are heading for trouble?
Do you agree with that?
Now, in fact, the majority of professional opinion seems to disagree with that, but I suppose you will insist that Wikipedia is wrong, am I correct in that guess?
You seem not to understand why, if you are wrong about biology requiring this, your hub could damage marriages. Is that correct? Never mind that you assert that we are hard wired for thses roles, can you truly not see why someone who disagrees with that would see the potential for damage?
Pcunix being the wild liberal femgoddess that I was coming out of college, ball busting...lets not forget that. I have now come to the conclusion that respecting my husband for his manly qualities, for much better sex in the bedroom. male dominance traits yes those are hard wired in many men, not all of course, but a good percentage. Professional opinions of whom? Dr. Wikiepedia. My research comes for actual people, not wikipedias.
By the way have you seen what other titles of my hubs are? Dont want to cause you a brain contusion..lol (probably spelled that wrong)
How to get your wife to desire you and want sex with you
What A Good Wife Does For Her Husband
How To Get A Wife Interested In Having Sex With Her Husband Again
Bring Passion Into Your Marriage By Giving Your Wife Some Mind Sex
crazy titles......mmmm is that what the article is about, or is it an eye catching title?
Just for the record, I have never attacked Dawn personally.
Time after time I have stated that I believe she means well and would never condone violence.
My hub is not disrespecful. I simply strongly disagree with he idea of necessary roles for the sexes. I do not believe, ss Dawn does, that our DNA demands a dominant role for men. I think that to insist that all marriages require this has the potential for justifying abuse and, even if it doesn't go that far, can lead to great unhappiness for men and women who do NOT want to assume the roles Dawn insists they should assume.
please tell me exactly where I listed the specific roles, I simply gave examples of some very basic gender roles and no where in any of my writing did I say that a person had to have them in order to be happily married? My point is and always has been in almost all of my hubs that are on sex and marriage, the underlining thread of most couples who are having problems in their intimate lives, meaning sexless marriage, very little sex in marriage. why is there no sex in my marriage. Again in my professional opinion, from the many people over the years that have come to me it is "but not always" a high percentage, due to the fact that ............Just wrote my latest hub on it "reasons why married couples are no longer having sex"
Dawn, you are not telling the truth. Your hub very strongly says that males need to be dominant. You even said that a woman should not make more money than her husband!
I have saved your hub, by the way - just in case you get the idea of changing it to make me look like a liar.
Haven't you had enough people tell you you are wrong? Why don't you just stop this silliness? You are making yourself look very foolish and very unprofessional.
The whole idea of the hub was ways for a man to get back his power in the marriage? no? That's the way I understood the title and the content - the whole idea was to urge men to get their "power" back in order to have a good marriage including good sex. If that wasn't your intention, it certainly sounded like it.
mega, I never said anything about power, or gaining power.
Here is the meat of my article
"When this happens a wife without even understanding it will lose her base line female attraction for her husband. She does not need him as a man anymore, so he becomes instead her roommate.
The biggest problem is that when a man and women are married for some time and they don’t realize the roles that they have settled into, it will affect their intimate life in a negative way. Many times when the couple begins to have a problems in the marriage, it will stem from the role that the husband and wife have taken on. "
I am talking to women and men in my article not just men, mega.......
When a man stops acting like a man in a marriage, meaning (he stops dating his wife, he not longer initates intimacy, he does not help out around the house, he does not bother to make him self appealing to her, he no longer compliments her,)....then he has lost his role as the man.......
On her end if she continues to not appericate him and respect him as a man (meaning, puting him down infront of others, nagging at him, controlling him, not boosting him up when he is down, not desiring him any more, not making love to him, where by the way is predominantly where a man will feels the most connection with his wife)
yes these gender differences in most men and women!
I just reread your hub to make sure the message I was getting was what was there - If you didn't want to talk to the men in the marriage why did you give it that title?
Most of your ideas about how males and females should relate in a love relationship - dating (the male asks the female); divisions of labor and roles (the male works outside the home, the female inside); sex (in the bedroom a woman won't be attracted if her male is not the primary breadwinner and "dominant") and on and on - are all ideas that some of us have been rebelling against for at least 40 years!!
If you take a good look at the way the next generation behaves you will find that they would laugh you out of the boat! The world has changed so very much and you seem to be still reading the same old sex manuals and marriage manuals that they wrote in the 50s and 60s. That's why I responded to your hub, and at last you respond to me by claiming not to have said basically what you say - I guess I'll have to just leave it because you are seeing what we say, but instead of saying you disagree, you claim not to be saying what you're saying! It's frustrating to debate an issue when you won't give us reasons why you say what you say and instead, claim that we're the ones misunderstanding what you said. Hey - if you title your hub "How a man can gain the male dominance back in his marriage" and then say you weren't really talking about male dominance, that's just not right somehow. is what I and others are saying. You're giving us mixed messages and in the psychology world that's a no-no!
I bet your not married.............mega 1 or you would have not insulted the meaning of marriage. I think you mean individual Interpretation, not mixed signals, all of my hubs are writen in the same way, you just have not taken the time to read them......nor do I think you will benefit from them any way.
I am not looking for acceptance or agreement, nor will any of my clients be offened, I promote marriage, love family values, no cheating and a husbanc and wife having respect for one another.......wow thats the manual of the 50s and 60s.....or should we have open marriage, lots of divorce, having kids without father.....yes how about that one lets just forget men altogether and go to the sperm bank...is that nore like 2010? If it is count me out!
my married status has nothing to do with my stand on this issue so I won't bother to respond to that! Is it ok with you if people have opinions on this issue whether they are married or not? Many people really think hard about the "dominance" issue when they make a choice about whether to be married or not - please don't belittle that kind of thought.
Basically my stand is that people are not using words like "dominance" to define their relationships anymore. Dominance isn't ok, unless its been talked over and agreed upon beforehand. People are talking about open communication and respect. That's pretty much what people use as the foundation for their love.
I don't think this is worth wasting any more of my time on. Don't try to twist what I've been saying! The paragraph above says it all for me and if you don't understand, then go ahead, try to counsel people about how to keep their marriages happy! Of course, I'm not going to read anymore of your counseling hubs - this one sort of defined what I would find in the others, if not, its not my problem!
I've been called annoying and have been accused of excessive flirting, kissing As%, and not having an opinion. It's okay. She is entitled to have an opinion of my cyberself. But she obviously doesn't know me.
and as for "bashing" - disagreement is not "bashing" I've seen some bashing around here and been the victim of it a couple times, but what PC and others are saying to you is definitely not "bashing" When I encountered some particularly vicious comments directed at me, I just declined to carry the conversation any further. That ended that. The fact that you encourage this debate means that you aren't being bashed - you're debating a controversial issue! In fact, some really good exchanges have been made. But if you're just looking for acceptance and agreement - good luck, because that seldom happens and what good would it do you? Your clients will see what others have said about you? That's a risk we all take when we come into public forums.
I have two suggestions for you, Dawn.
One, contact HupPages. Ask them to remove my hub on the grounds that it damages you.
Second, contact a lawyer. Ask him or her to sue me for damages to your reputation.
Be sure to sue all the other folks who agreed with me in the forums - you should be able to get quite a pile of money, right?
Good luck with both of those. Let us know how it all works out for you.
Oh Pcunix please, it's only fair that I posted this after you posted yours, equal rights......lol
No I you have not damaged my reputation..........(did I have one to begin with?..lol)
Yes I do feel that you took my hub and twisted my meaning, did I use a strong word, of course I did...though provoking maybe, dangerous, hardly,
truce........plus, I have go make dinner now for the family and maybe have a glass of wine or two..lol
I am happy to hear that, because, as I have consistently said, I do understand that you mean well and do not condone abuse.
Can we let this go now? You can have the last word, but plesse, make it be "bury the hatchet".
ok i agree to disagree with you...lol how is that? now can I go have my wine...lol
I will be at the hubcamp.....so we can put on our boxing gloves there.....
In MA? Should I wear my wig (assuming my wife will let me)?
Is there an actual degree in sexology? Or is it a cumulative thing along with other studies?
Yes, but it can also be an adjunct or extra schooling a specialty. I have my masters in marriage and family therapy but they only have two semesters in sexology and most of the people that were having problems it was stemming from their intimate lives, so I want back to take more courses in sexology. There are different levels, but the extra school really helps with people that have medical and psychological sexual dysfunctions. You can look it up through ASSECT or in Beverly Hills the Institute for sexual Health, you can get a doctorate in it as well.
Yes, I looked at the ASSECT and Beverly Hills listings. Not too impressed, by the way. The ASSECT org is really controversial!
really what is it that you dont like? I have taken some great courses from them? The cal state cant come close to what they teach. The work is unique and they something called SARS which is riviting. The touchy part is that they have some extreme cases, but I simply stick to marriage....
The professors are amazing and the clinical work is impressive, have you taken classes from them?
I was referring to an ASSECT discussion concerning how it mirrored Kinsey's thoughts on allowing minors to have free rein concerning sexual activities.
They are the most conservative adjunct of sexology, but many other association are much more liberal. Of course if you dug deeper past the opinions you may find the real truth. They run many tests and studies rebunking older studies, that is progress for all studies. I have not read that or know where you got the information, would love to see it. Again I deal with marriage, whereas many deal in other more indidvidual dysfunction.
Hi Dawn, I have read your entire hub, and it is not promoting control and abuse. I am quite stunned at the posts I am reading on this thread. The husband is the head, and it is his duty to be dominate in the marriage, which mean to take charge. It does not mean a man should be domineering over his wife, by controlling her. The husband is to be strong, and yet sweet. I love it when my husband is taking charge of things, and he is sweet about it.
I didn't see any of the thread as "attacking" at all. I saw it as raising an issue for discussion in a forum. People are so often complaining about "what goes on in the forums" or "all the religious posts", so, to me, seeing and taking part in a solid discussion about issues is what I like seeing going on in the forums. I noticed the numbers of people who (I think) are "a good age" on the "male dominance" and "female dominance" threads, so it struck me that these threads attracted grown-ups who have lived at least two or three decades of adult life. I joked to myself that the thread was made up of either "old-fashioned minded" middle-aged people who don't like that society is straying away from their comfortable thinking; or else "enlightened" people who have lived long enough to have seen enough in their lives to have become "enlightened".
As someone who writes online (and has had the occasional out-and-out name-calling about one article/Hub or another), I just see someone's making an issue out of one thing or another as part of the deal. People post links to MSN articles (for example) in order to start a discussion. I did have some reservation about posting on a thread that mentioned someone's specific Hub, but I thought the ideas in question made for a solid discussion (and one I think people need to have).
If someone picked apart something I said in a Hub by starting a forum discussion (if I felt like bothering) I might be happy to take each, individual, point people made and address it. When someone has a solid argument the one way to make sure it gets "established" that his argument is solid is to take each point the other "side" has made and address it head on. With a solid argument, it will be clear that (even if the other side doesn't agree) the one with the solid argument at least has sound reasoning and "back-up" behind each point.
I have some Hubs that keep getting the same comments (which are foolish), and I actually enjoy "flattening" each commenter who attacks me by addressing each point and making it clear that the person either read something that isn't there into what I said, or else just said something that won't hold any water.
Bringing up a discussion is, to me, fair, what's done on a site like this, and reasonable. Helium once had a title about finding things at home to entertain babies with. Someone wrote an article and included how people could fill a bottle with marbles, cover it, and wrap an elastic around it; and then let a baby play with it as a toy. I didn't go to the forums to point out that I thought that was a wacky and dangerous idea. I wrote to the site's fact checkers, authorities, and anyone else I could think of who may be interested in the fact that if some clown read that article, gave a baby a bottle of marbles to play with, and ended up having the baby choke on marbles; lawyers could potentially go after Helium for allowing such
"advice" on this site. In other words, I think someone who saw your Hub as potentially detrimental could have done a whole lot more (and in private) than just try to start a discussion on the very site where the advice in question is posted.
Respectfully (and I suppose I should just mind my business with regard to what goes on between you and another Hubber), this thread has seemed to be either back-peddling, going round and round with addressing the actual points raised by any number of people head on, or else "playing the expert card".
The only reason I'm weighing in here at all is that I made some "major" (length-wise) posts on the thread(s) in question; and my own reasons for "contributing" were about finding the issue at hand an interesting and important one. It absolutely had nothing to do with you or any of your other Hubs (or even ideas presented in the Hub in question) other than a few isolated points.
The world is full of people who agree with you, but not everyone does. It seems to me worth considering that maybe some of the points some of those "non-agree-ers" make deserve some consideration and addressing.
As someone else said earlier, this thread, to me, is one of the most interesting and reasonable (and worthwhile) threads that has shown up in a long time. Heck - you and PC ought to have your own sub-forum In any case, as I said somewhere way back in one of the related threads, people don't bother raising points for debate when those points have been made by someone they don't respect (although some people won't debate points raised by someone they do respect but know they won't win a debate with). They just vote the Hub down and move on. PC raised points he disagrees with. He either respects you (and he's said that already) or else believes his "side" of the argument is one that stands a chance of "winning". I don't see either of those as an attack.
My opinion is that when one writes a hub that is controversial one might expect a little controversy. There is also a big difference between telling someone they are stupid (for instance) and telling them that you think their idea is stupid (for instance). Personally I think that in a balanced relationship either gender is equally capable of taking a leadership role in any given circumstance. There is, in a marriage, or any relationship for that matter, a time to lead and a time to follow. And, it is always inappropriate to follow 'blind' hence the different viewpoints on your topic.
I do not think that bashing is okay but I do think expressing a different viewpoint on the same topic most certainly is okay, in fact it is our ability to view something from different points of view that leads us to expand. Looking at life through a keyhole would be pretty bloody boring methinks.
Is falsely accusing another person of bashing being a hypocrite?
I wasn’t falsely accused by another Bailybear, my hub was called dangerous, which is a joke, there are a thousand other hubs that are dangerous, my was just on the conservative side valuing marriage, family and a man wanting to support his family, I understand that those are not your values but stooping down to hypocrite....name calling...little immature, but of course you are entitled to your opinion and to be fair to you I have yet to read any of your hub...which, from the fourms it seems that there are a group of you all that are like little bullies........maybe I should have called it the bully club......lol
This is a writers forum - if you get criticised because you write something that others vehemently disagree with then you should answer the argument and not resort to name calling.
You set yourself up as some kind of marriage counselling and therefore are claiming some degree of 'expert' status - in which case you need to be accurate and 'expert' in the information you give and the way it is written. And then you should be happy to recieve criticism and do soemthing about any erors.
Just my opinion, if such disagreement with you is not seen as bullying.
china man you are my hero for being so accurate, about me being a professional...I quess defending family, love, family values, not cheating on your spouse and mutual respect for one another all the while talking about male dominante traits is dangerious and a subject that some people may disagree with. But as a marriage counselor, or just a woman, wife and mother, I still believe that if a man can afford to support his family and the mom can stay home and take care of the kids, those are values that I will always fight for and defend.......I have no problem with criticism, or others not liking me, or other disagreeing with me, but I didnt start this to begin with I am just defending, the married couples who still want to stay married and work on their marriage, and if my articles can help them then great......I have done my job for the day and if others dont like them than they let me know on my article, but if they are going to post a direct comment on it then I will do my job as a proud American and state my rebuttle............
This is the internet - if you are easily offended by disagreement (especially on a forum), then perhaps you shouldn't be here.
FWIW dawn, i think you have over-reacted somewhat and blown this out of all proportion.
You are both (pcunix and dawnM) clearly intelligent so i'd forget the whole episode and move on.
"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are good is like expecting the bull not to charge because you are a vegetarian" I like your intro, it says it all....
I am not mad at Pcunix, I just wanted a fair trade for getting the sh...t kicked out of me for writng a more tradtional stance on marriage than most of my hubs, he is an extreme liberal, and I really try not to place in political agend in my hubs or religous....that often over steps the message..so as they say all is fair in love and war
Just seems a shame when two intelligent people (and good writers) have such a big bust up on a public forum.
But it's easy to be calm as an observer i suppose.
yes, we did Pcunix,
but a girl cannot let others make a point with out me defending myself.....that would be unlady like of me.....lol
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