My Hubber score drops every time I interact with my popular thread?

1. 86

   Kyler J Falkposted 4 years ago

   It would seem that HubPages frowns upon the ongoing interaction within my popular thread, and I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this sort of trend within their own threads?
   
   The responses are relevant, engaging, and ongoing; so is this HubPages trying to say, indirectly, that it is time to let the thread die? Surely, there is some sort of active decision that has been made concerning ongoing threads of different topics affecting your Hubber score algorithm both positively and negatively?
   
   The things I get positive score for are silly and I'm beginning to figure out the pattern for it, but it's too redundant for me to want to take part and the score too pointless for me to care to take part. However, the dropping of the score is intriguing, because I lose a point for interacting with my popular thread despite its ongoing popularity, whilst I can go gain a point on someone else's popular thread with a meaningless comment.
   
   Any insights, condescending remarks, or something else you wish to add of your own observations? When the heck is HubPages just going to come out and explain how the score actually works, rather than just saying, "DoN't WoRrY aBoUt It, It IsN't ImPoRtAnT," never?
   
   If it didn't serve an important purpose for the site, a purpose they continue to dismiss with nonsense, it never would have been programmed to begin with. The algorithms are obviously complex, too complex to dismiss as a simple and whimsical feature for fun.

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2. 96

   PaulGoodman67posted 4 years ago

   It isn't important. And HP have said that in the forums in the past. It's supposed to go up when you do the right things and go down when you do the wrong things, but it's a blunt instrument. It will also go up and down without you doing anything at all. If someone's score goes down really low, say below 40, then they are maybe a spammer or plagiarist, otherwise you should ignore it.

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   1. 86

      Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I've seen them say it and continue to say it, as well I have seen people continue to parrot it; however, what they have never explained is why they even continue to maintain it and integrate it into every part of their site? Seems like a lot of work for a useless tool, one they claim is unimportant, and if it is worth maintaining and updating the code around it then it is worth an in-depth explanation.
      
      It's the depth of the code, despite how unimportant it is said to be, the calculations behind it that really intrigue me. I could care less what my score is, but I'd love to know why it is such an unimportant feature has so much work put into it on the developers' end.

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3. 0

   Marisa Writesposted 4 years ago

   You say, "seems like a lot of work for a useless tool", but what makes you think the scores require any work at all?    The work happened years ago when the site was created, and as far as I can see, the scores haven't been changed much (if at all) since then.
   
   They always used to say, "we know the scores aren't perfect but we can't justify the cost of changing the algorithm right now".  I'd say that's still the case.  They can't justify the cost of removing the scores, either, because they'd have to introduce something new to replace its role in penalising spammers (i.e. those who score very low).

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   1. 86

      Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I know they require work because they keep it up to date and compatible with anything new they put into the site. In order to alter the site, which seems to occur slowly, they need to alter the code of the site and sometimes the algorithms of the score as well. Then again, they could take the time to break it down if it is, in fact, so simple it doesn't even need altering (I highly doubt that's the case).
      
      I mean, maybe if I posted this under the programming section this would be more relevant a question, but I'd rather the developers just give a definitive answer on the system rather than repeating the same brush-offs over and over. As for spammers they seem to get removed just as fast as they appear, due to the report feature rather than the score feature.
      
      It's also pretty easy to abuse the score system, as when I posted this I was 84, and I've been focusing on raising back. Probably be best to just remove the system altogether if it is so pointless and easy to manipulate.

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      1. 0

         Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't say it was simple.  The algorithm is complex but my understanding was that the bulk of the work was done right at the start and it hasn't had much, if any, attention since an overhaul several years ago. 
         
         How many new things have they put onto the site since you've been a member?   I've come back after years of absence and I don't see any substantial changes to anything.  Bear in mind that the Hubber score is connected to the main HubPages account, not to the niche sites.
         
         When I say spammers, I meant people who write spammy or low quality articles.  There are measures that happen when a person's hubscore falls below a certain limit - I forget what they are, but I assume HubPages finds that useful. It's the main reason for the HubberScore's existence.

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         1. 86

            Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            The algorithms behind the score aren't just free-floating code that fluctuates based on predetermined actions. Therefore any change they make, usually a daily/weekly/monthly update of code for the security of the site, has to take into account the algorithms and other code that includes the scores. 
            
            Basically, I'm going to be obsessed with the inter-workings of Hubber scores until they take the time to break it down. Mainly, I want them to admit that they actively use the score to devalue certain writers (they won't) because I've been following a certain few throughout their forum doings who made the claims, and judging by the patterns I can actively recognize the score is both actively, and redundantly generated.
            
            The community deserves an in-depth explanation, if not for explaining this, "unimportant feature," then to address the concerns of the community making these claims so as to quell the rumors. Unless the silence is meant to give credence to the claims, in which case all I have to go on is the evidence that purposeful manipulation of scores is regularly practiced.
            
            It's more complex than it seems, even to the point of being manipulable to those who take the time to observe its intricacies.

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            1. 0

               Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Fair point, I hadn't thought about security updates, but I'm still not sure if that would require much tinkering with the HubberScore. 
               
               However, a bigger question is, can you explain what you mean by "devaluing" certain writers, and what impact that has on those writers' earnings potential?

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               1. 86

                  Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I cannot, because I can only go off of what I can actively observe, that is where I need HubPages to come in and quell the rumors. As for devaluing, I'd like to save that for either a HubPages staff response, or the article I'm going to write on the topic.

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            2. 75

               lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Your score is going to be close to the average score of your hubs. Forum activity, etc. helps it rise a little, but I'm guessing your average hub score is 81 or 82.

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               1. 86

                  theraggededgeposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Needs a few 100s in there.

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               2. 86

                  Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I've found the average Hub score means nothing to the Hubber score, and if it does mean something it is so marginal as to be negligible. Due to my poetry, my average is in the 60's. The more I post poetry, the lower the average gets, and it makes me laugh. If all that was taken into account were my other niche Hubs besides Letterpile, then it'd fluctuate near the 90's for average Hub score.
                  
                  The most common score gain/score loss seems to occur when commenting on a "foreign article" in a niche site, commenting on a new forum post with a "relevant" or "irrelevant" comment, and then posting at least one Hub per day. Something I have been testing, however, is editing old Hubs and submitting them; when an editor bites the hook the score shoots up to its peak point. The intricacies really come in as it concerns the report, denial of comment, and mark as spam system.
                  
                  It is most definitely also time-based for recalculating redundantly, however, and will regularly fluctuate with no activity based on certain guidelines. The intricacies of it absolutely fascinate me, and obviously a lot of work went into it that would be worth telling people about for the purpose of educating them on their preferred medium.
                  
                  I'd also like to write an article on the topic, but I need at least one HubPages Staff member to weigh in on it directly in one of my threads for me to choose the direction. I've gathered enough evidence to make valid claims that they actively devalue people of certain dispositions using score, the scores can be actively manipulated to increase, and the site would be better off hiding visibility of the score on the user-end but keeping it for "spammers" on their end. 
                  
                  If they don't respond then I'll continue to analyze it until I've perfected the manipulations of the score, which I'm pretty close to, and then I'm going to tell everyone how to artificially stimulate their score.

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                  1. 75

                     lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     All I can say is good luck. I think you are giving yourself too much worth if the staff are going to individually do something to lower your score. There are thousands of hubbers out there.

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                     1. 86

                        Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I'd never purposefully make such a claim, but others do regularly. However, the report system itself says they manually review every report which invalidates that statement by your own logic, unless HubPages claims are to be disregarded as the useless brush-offs they seem to frequently be. We shall see how it all plays out. Either way I'm going to develop a nice little article on Hubber scores.

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                        1. 75

                           lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Since you are collecting data, here's some more:
                           
                           Many people on the topical forums have been banned from posting on the forums based on the report sent in, some for as long as 3 whole months. Quite a few of those people have a score in the high 90s.

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                        2. 75

                           lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Btw, Kyler, I know what kind of posts you are referring to. The staff just ban people who make factual claims and use so-called high-level words such as intellectually challenged. You can use simple English and call someone a nut and you will not get banned because it seems like calling someone a nut is very normalized.

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                           1. 86

                              Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              I've also watched people in the 90's dip down to the mid-low 80's based on reports and bans. What I cannot actively observe for myself is whether or not their claims of, "staff actively manipulating my score," are true or not, and the staff have said they, "rarely," lower scores actively. Nonetheless they've hinted that they have done so, and I want them to describe what it is that brings them to actively do it versus ignoring it.
                              
                              Staff abuse of the ban and score system seems as if there really isn't any moderation, as I know individuals who have been banned for defending themselves against an onslaught of harsh criticism while only slipping up once and maybe throwing in a "douchebag" or a "shit" in a fit of impatience. It's such a complex topic, I've only touched on it once in my article about freedom of speech, but I figured I'd just analyze the source of my inspiration.
                              
                              Where HubPages refuses to expand, I'll be happy to continue observing the system and then teach people how to manipulate it. They won't do anything about this, "unimportant feature," so we'll see how unimportant it is once everyone can utilize it at will.

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                              1. 0

                                 Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 This sounds like an unhealthy obsession.  Even if staff did manually lower scores, it would be of no concern to me, because a low score makes no difference to earnings - unless it's low enough to trigger the "no follow", which doesn't happen till the score is in the 40's, I think, 
                                 
                                 Since score has no impact on earnings, I could care less.

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                                 1. 86

                                    Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                    By that logic your enjoyment of dance is an, "unhealthy obsession."
                                    
                                    I enjoy coding, algorithms and anything else to do with computers/software at a higher-than-layman level. This score thing tends to bother a myriad of different Hubbers, and in lieu of HubPages addressing their concerns I feel like I can do so.
                                    
                                    Now if I were to be sitting all day staring at HubPages, ignoring my workout regimen and diet, letting my family fall by the wayside, and any other unhealthy behavior we could tack on; then yeah, I'd agree it would be an unhealthy obsession at that point.
                                    
                                    Alas, I'm here writing in my free time anyways, so I may as well take on the unanswered questions of the community.

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                                    1. 0

                                       Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                       Erm, no.  Dancing is very healthy - good exercise for the body, creative, stimulates the brain, and triggers endorphins which makes you feel good.
                                       
                                       I misunderstood your posts to mean you were getting worked up about something which is, essentially, trivial.   If you're researching Hubberscore for fun, and you're enjoying the mental challenge, go for it

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                                       1. 86

                                          Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                          Heck no, since the day I joined the score system has been laughable at best along with much of the other coding on this site. The amount of flaws there are just waiting to be exploited is egregious, and I take interest in why they wouldn't just remove the feature. When I said I was, "obsessed," with this score system, I'm no more obsessed with it than I am obsessed with my own drivel I doodle here on the Hubs for practice.
                                          
                                          I think the most thought that is actually going into this whole matter, more than just fleeting thoughts of various depths, is what the hell I'm going to write about next. Suffering a little bit of writer's block, and I don't feel like falling back on poetry anymore.

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                                          1. 0

                                             Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                             Why don't you take this time to find a proper poetry site?  Poetry always does badly on HubPages because Letterpile isn't a specialist poetry site.   You could get a lot more readers for those poems elsewhere.

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                                             1. 86

                                                Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                                For the sole reason it seems to upset the seasoned writers here on HubPages. I'm not a poet and have no interest in being one, but the controversy poets garner here is more than worth writing my own poetry for. Not to mention, the poets here who catch a lot of flack from the most pretentious of the writing community do more for spreading my work than any of the top sellers do.
                                                
                                                It's a healthy balance, I'd say, between cathartic poetry doodles and intuitive scribbles; both serving the purpose I intend them to, and I have no desire to be anywhere but on the Hubs.

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                                                1. 0

                                                   Marisa Writesposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                                   You astonish me. I've never seen anyone be derogatory to poets.  I've seen many experienced Hubbers trying to point out, kindly, that poems never get much readership here.  That's no criticism of poetry, it's just a fact.  There's even a community of ex-Hubbers who set up their own poetry site for that exact reason.
                                                   
                                                   The only poets who might catch a lot of flack are those writing on contentious subjects, but then, that's no different from people who write prose on contentious subjects.

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                                                   1. 86

                                                      Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                                      I have seen it, ranging from years back to now. The poets here are well aware that HubPages, and many of its more seasoned Hubbers, tend to frown upon poetry. I'd go back and gather quotes for you but I'm not willing to spend that much time on the topic of poetry being looked down upon when all the evidence is readily available for those looking for it.

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               3. 88

                  Jodahposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  This isn’t the case because my average hub score is 74 and my hubber score fluctuates between 91 and 93.

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                  1. 75

                     lobobrandonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Interesting.

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            3. 96

               PaulGoodman67posted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Conspiracies everywhere. It's unfortunate that some people get fixated by the hubber score. I have more than one account and different scores on each. It doesn't make any difference.

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               1. 86

                  Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  If only we could all be so carefree and superior like you as it concerns the score, the world would be such a better place!

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4. 83

   peachpurpleposted 4 years ago

   I do not think that participating threads got anything to do with hub score.
   
   the most important thing is you should see your earnings increased or not.
   
   i had noticed my earnings increased from zero cts to 8 cts when.i answered 20 threads yesterday
   
   although  my hub score dropped from 85 to 81, that does not matter.

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   1. 86

      Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      As has been expressed by staff and Hubbers alike, the score is unimportant, yes. However, I'm fascinated by the intricacies of code and algorithms, and on HubPages the score system has no definitive definition. I hope to be the first to offer an in-depth look into it, or to get the staff to offer an in-depth look into it.
      
      As for earnings, though it isn't relevant to this thread, those come so long as you put in the work. I know people in the 60's range making payout.
      
      Participating in threads has a lot to do with the score, but I'm saving my breakdown of how the score system works for an article I'm going to write after I figure out how to fully manipulate the score system. 
      
      Take notice how I started the day at 87 but as of typing this I'm at 85, I'm dropping it purposefully only to bring it back up later. As of now I'm working on discerning the redundant timing of the algorithms.

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      1. 88

         Jodahposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         My score drops by a point or two every time I publish a new hub. It usually rises again in a day or two however.

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         1. 86

            Kyler J Falkposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I had mine immediately shoot up by seven the other day upon posting a new Hub, also passed the QAP in less than ten minutes. Was very interesting.

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