Suggestion: Open discussion for hubs!

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  1. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    I still think comments should be comments, not discussions, that is the purpose of a forum. Maybe it would be a good idea that every author has a forum automatically made in a widget on there profile page and the topics are always the title of the Hub. That way you can discuss it and always edit your posts, and have pictures etc. I think this would be a better idea then trying to hold a discussion in the comment section on the Hub. This will open up feedback and not limit people on what they can put about the topic etc. You can suggest something to add to there Hub, or anything! smile

    Here is an example of what the idea is:

    So what do you think? I really think it will be beneficial to do something like this!

    1. GoogleCashMoney profile image59
      GoogleCashMoneyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Hey It will be great idea. Hope H/P listening...

    2. terenceyap07 profile image61
      terenceyap07posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I think this is a fine idea. Though there will always be the pros and cons, the rationale behind this suggestion is worth exploring.

      1. thranax profile image71
        thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks for the opinion Terence! smile I appreciate it.

  2. Eric Graudins profile image61
    Eric Graudinsposted 16 years ago

    Sounds like a great idea, if it can be incorporated without a lot of programming hassles.

    However, the current comments system works - even if it does get a bit out of hand sometimes.

  3. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    I think the current comment system is fine. There's nothing wrong with having a discussion in the comments and it is quite common on blogs and other websites that have comments attached to the article itself. Discussions occur outside of forums all of the time.

    Threading might be nice, but I can live without it.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image84
      Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, that's the only improvement I'd like to see.

  4. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Well it shouldn't be too hard to add a forum for ever Hub automatically to a position in a widget. We have the scripts to have widgets receive data from a place automatically, and we have a script like Rss feed. So why can't a Rss Feed lead to it and the widget turn the name into a topic where users can post under it?

  5. Marisa Wright profile image84
    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    I don't get it - what's the advantage of luring readers away from my article, which is after all, the thing that makes the money?

    1. SunSeven profile image60
      SunSevenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      That's how I feel too. For the discussions oriented, they can go to places like myLot. I am here to write hubs, not to discuss comments. smile

      1. thranax profile image71
        thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        This is for people who want to get feedback and need a discussion with people. I don't know about you but I tried contacting multiple people by email, I even posted my email on my profile, everything. I tried everything to get to communicate with someone but no one ever responds. This way it is an upgrade from the commenting section, you can leave comments but what if someone suggests adding something and you need to talk to them about it, or you need to change something. Once again, email doesn't work apparently so it leaves almost no options. What these forums here the main ones do is make a sense of community. Hubpages offers that community feel that other sites often don't. Being able to communicate better could really be beneficial. Also this would be for people with Hubpage Accounts only. Marisa Wright had an argument about Fans on these forums and even stated "We don't make our money from other Hubbers, so the only Fan I get are the ones I really like."

        So how is this cutting at your profits?

        And SunSeven, you claim you are here to write Hubs not discuss comments. It isn't to discuss comments, its to discuss a Hub. Don't you think you would generate more profit and more traffic if you added things or took suggestions people gave you to update your Hubs? Like I said this is for Hubbers only and Hubpages is an authors community, a lot of us help each other, so why wouldn't the input be valuable?

        Don't look at this as just a place to make\discuss comments.
        Comments are like "Nice Hub, well written and I really learned a lot from it! Good Job smile"
        This would be for something like this:
        Fan: Nice Hub, I love airplanes. You might want to add something about the lift of an airplane.
        You: Interesting, have any ideas on what to put or at least what to research?
        Fan: Yeah, Lift of an airplane is under current and over current over the wing. The wing shape makes the air pressure less above it and more under it, this then allows the under to be greater to life the plane upwards.
        You: Wow thanks, it will be a great addition to my Hub.

        1. SweetiePie profile image82
          SweetiePieposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Some Hubbers will discuss comments with you, so I suggest to continue commenting until you find people who will engage you in a discussion. However, I can respect SunSeven's and Marisa's preferences on how to use Hubpages because that is their freedom of choice, but you also have the ability to discuss hubs with people who are open to your comments.

        2. embitca profile image82
          embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          And by leaving this discussion in the comments on the hub itself, I don't need to make an addition to my hub because the information is already there. People have added useful information in the comments to my Vintage Guitars hub. I don't need to do anything else to the hub because the information is already there.

        3. Isabella Snow profile image85
          Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          If someone wants to discuss a hub, they can go into the forum and start a thread on it. I can't imagine any hubber having so keen a following that a personal forum would be warranted.

          1. guidebaba profile image56
            guidebabaposted 16 years agoin reply to this


  6. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Remember that with comments you can't add pictures, you can't edit your post after X amount of time. And if you add links it's almost the same as hijacking traffic from someone. This makes it a lot easier. It automatically will update you don't have to do extra work. And you don't have to use it, it's an add on feature smile

    1. Whitney05 profile image81
      Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      People can still upload their pictures to hosting sites like photobucket for free and post a link to the picture, if they really want to show of the picture or are using the picture to base a question.

      As for the comments. I think it's a good idea to not be edit-able after a period of time. It prevents people from going back and changing their comment or removing something that needs to be seen.

      Plus, you have to remember that the majority of people that comment are non-registered users, Giving them the ability to edit a comment will give them too much freedom. I know even with the ability to edit, I get multiple coments right after each other with just a slight revision in the second comment, where the person may not realize that the comment is editable. There's really no reason to let comments be edited hours, days, or weeks after it was posted. I know a few forums who do not allow editing after 15 minutes of posting.

  7. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Not designed for unregestered users. It's for authors to help other authors. I know links can be posted in comments and often aren't, by doing this a regestered or unregestered user is stealing traffic generated by unregestered people-the ones that amount to most of a Hubbers profits. Nothing is to say I don't get a listing of all my Hubs, post a whitty comment saying "everyone check out my hubs" on every single hub someone has and post a link to them. I think it's very inappropriate to add links into the comments on a Hub. Even if it is to a picture and even if the comment is to the author itself and not just anyone who sees it. This why it doesn't steal traffic because if an unregestered user goes to your profile page there are ads on the side and it is your personal area on Hubpages. Unregestereds also can't post in these small fourms, only other authors.
    It might even ad revenue to the author. If an unregistered follows you to this forum there will be a link with your default tracker in it, aka if they sign up for Hubpages to make forum posts on a hub (not just comments) you get that 10% of all there Hubs if they end up making Hubs.

    If I made a disscusion on these forums it could be taken as advertising it and it makes it so there is no link to them or anything.

    And maybe any Hubber might have such a keen following because right now you can't. Most Hubs good ones have discussions of about 70 comment posts if not more or less. By introducing this you can have that discussion and maybe people would really want to but can't without stealing traffic, undermining the author on there hub, etc.  It also opens up a place where personal questions people might have could be answered. If i don't understand something and want to on a Hub I try to contact the author and once again, it doesn't go through or there afraid of emails or something. This way its a safe place to ask those and discuss it. It also would allow you, using your ingenuity to add more content to your Hub based on questions and answers. Remember, there asked by other Hubbers, the fans that are interested in your content and really read and spend time with what you have wrote. Someone from Google could just come, read 3 lines and leave. You got to keep it up to other authors and your Fans to give you accurate or informative feedback-not all random people.

    Only Correct because we can't currently do it. If the feature is opened up people might start opening discussions to help each other.

    Guys, the way your making it sound is your here for just money, you don't care what content you through up just to get clicks. I know theres a lot of Hubbers that like the money, I like the money, everyone loves the money-but don't you also like to know the fact what you wrote helps someone? Basically my on look of it is this statement:
    "Welcome to Hubpages, we are a community of authors at each others throats for clicks, we will talk to you, we will write information to get clicks, and if you try to interfere with me I will crush you."

    What I'm trying to impose with this is a chance for us to help each other as a writer. This isn't just for money (it might help if you talk with another author with suggestions) this is to increase the community. You are probably thinking to yourself:
    What he's talking about is becoming a better writer, there are author forums that will help you with that stuff.
    No, I'm saying other Hubbers can help me with it. And if, just say if that was the accurate answer-how will you get other Hubbers to click the link? I don't know about you but unless Hubpages adds a link under Contact this Person to "Go to author forums" No one will click the link. They will disregard what you post no matter what you try to do. This is an optional part of the community but it will help only if you want to make it help.
    A topic about being financially stable and saving money, saving money is mostly attitude:
    Live it up, drink it down. <--You will never save money with that attitude.
    So the bettering of the community is all attitude too. If you don't want to help someone, then nothing can be done, but for the people who want to help someone then it opens that up to them in a safe manner.

    1. Whitney05 profile image81
      Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I don't see much real discussion on any of my hubs from registered users, so I wouldn't be in. Sounds silly. Sorry.

      I'm not in it for the money, solely, although it's a great addition to writing, but there's no sense in a special hubber forum per hubber, if a discussion about the particular hub can be taken care of in the hub's comment section. It just doesn't make sense to have two areas to talk about the same topic. If you want to talk a hubber, you can just go to their page and contact them, if this option is available, as not all hubbers allow a contact button on their profile. But, the majority have the contact button, which means you wouldn't need to have a special section to talk with that person about your hub, as you can just email the person. This is all since you're not worried about non-registered users leaving comments and having a discussion.

      You can't imply that all hubbers are saying, "Welcome to Hubpages, we are a community of authors at each others throats for clicks, we will talk to you, we will write information to get clicks, and if you try to interfere with me I will crush you." Especially, since everyone has pretty much said they like discussions within their comment section. No one said they don't want a discussion in their comment section, other than you. Plus, from what I saw, no one said that they care more about the money than anything else.

      Most of use here are writers first.

  8. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    Now that you've explained in detail what you are really intending I think it makes even less sense than it did before. We already have a FORUM for authors to discuss things with other authors. You are in it right now.

    To add forums on our separate hubs (or to our profile page which I think is what you are really saying) will not build community, it will fragment it. Instead of all coming together to discuss stuff in one place -- right here in this forum -- we would be forced to find all the individual forums where things are being discussed. Seriously, that makes no sense at all.

    No one is here to crush anyone and your broad generalizations are not helpful or warranted. Where did anyone say they don't care about what kind of content they put up or that they only care about clicks? How does saying that contribute to the point you are trying to get across?

    We can all help each other out in the forums and in the comments of our individual hubs and in fact, everyone here already does so. I have no idea where you get the impression people are out to get each other or why you think that being able to include links when discussing hubs is so important that you need to create a whole new place to do it. If someone really has a relevant link to share in a discussion on one of my hubs that contributes to the topic and is not simply self-serving, I generally will approve them.  But for the most part, adding links to a discussion is unnecessary.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      1. On these Forums I cannot say "Read this Hub <url snipped> and tell me what you think, or can add to it HERE on these forums"

      2.It doesn't Fragment Community. Each one is to discuss a HUB. Not to say "tips to writing better" etc.  It isn't meant to all come together to discuss something, its everyone who read the HUB to discuss it.

      3.The Generalization I made are pertaining to the reply mostly on these forums. I know not everyone is like that, I know some are. Most of the people crush any upbringing these forums suggest. When happily answering questions that will not infringe on there traffic, they give more limited or not complete on everything that would.
      They didn't say they don't care about what they put up, but they act like it. When I made a suggestion here I got responses like:

      I don't get it - what's the advantage of luring readers away from my article, which is after all, the thing that makes the money?
      This isn't taking away from making money. Stated herself money is made by other viewers, not other authors.

      I suggested something to help authors, not to infringe upon earnings-but this was the first assumption.
      It contributes to what I said because I'm making it clear: THIS ISN'T FOR MONEY, ITS FOR COMMUNITY and AUTHOR AID.

      So therefore my generalization is warranted for my discussion and it is helpful because its one of many opinions. We all have a different opinion of it, and in order to make a change there needs to be motivation.

      I am trying to upgrade comments you can say. If an author wants to have a discussion or any cause for asking questions comes up you can do it on this forum system, and leave the comments for things like:
      "Nice hub! Good information and hope to see more from you!"
      "I learned a lot from this, hopefully I can use what I learned smile"

      I am sure I addressed your concerns about my suggestion. What I am more surprised by is the amount of people who don't look at a suggestion as a good thing. Look at both the Pros and Cons about it before you post a reply attacking an idea.

      And I still love others who look at it in a more optimistic way, some are for it like

      If some people are for it, and others are ageist it thats what happens for everything. What I would also really hope for is for the Hubpage Team to comment about it, it is a New Feature Suggestion and what I would really want them to consider while considering this Feature is What I said about the product itself without any positive or negative Hubber Responses. I love the responses but some of them are the same as a "No." Before you understand it. It is a change and that is to be expected but please consider everything about it before posting.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image84
        Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, I know money is made from other readers, not other authors. What I meant was this:

        Once you have a link on your Hub which invites people to go elsewhere to continue a more detailed discussion on the subject, ALL readers - not just authors - could be tempted to go there to discuss the topic further.   

        If you were suggesting some kind of "Hubbers only" link, invisible to everyone else, where we could give specific feedback on the Hub, that might be a different thing.

        However I've suggested, several times, that there should be a special section on the forum where we could post our Hubs to get feedback and help.  That would be simpler to implement than your idea and I think it would work better, because Hubbers wouldn't need to go to your Hub to know that you're seeking feedback - they'd see your post.

        1. thranax profile image71
          thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah, that's one of the fine details to consider if the suggestion is implemented. It should be a Hubber only link if it is only addable by a Logged in Hubber. All new suggestions are rocky at first, but easy things like that are what need to be added into it to make the idea good.   
          The forums here are public so I can see why they don't want to do that. This way it isn't public it's for signed in Hubbers only and it's not on the Public Forum Link, it is personalized basically on your Profile Page with your Hubs only.  And SunSeven stated she had to many Hubs for this, well there needed to be a "New Post" Notification on it, but in order to find one of her Hubs fast thats what the "Search:{_______}" Is for.This part is really shaky. Normally on the Hub someone reads they read it down to the bottom. It is near this bottom where the link to "Discussions" Forum in the user profile is, right next to comments (only for logged in Hubbers). This way it requires no advertising of the Hub whatsoever, if they want to give you feedback they just click it right there and make there post.

  9. profile image0
    Adam Yorkposted 16 years ago

    Interesting topic.  I think discussions in comments are a good thing because the search indexers also index the comments.  When I can I like to make comments that help the hub mine, yours, others etc...  A kind of comments with Keywords if you will. I see comments as an opportunity to increase search results. Forums are good to but not directly linked with a hub, generally speaking.

  10. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Like I said, I tried to contact other Hubbers by email etc, none respond, I don't even think any of them even receive it. This way its a 100% sure fire its somewhere they see it and it is safe for them, it cant be a virus or anything.

    I am not implying the "Welcome to Hubpages, we are a community of authors at each others throats for clicks..." It is a metaphor for the forum answers I have gotten and my own personal view ONLY taking the responses into account.

    Not every said they like discussions within their comment section. GoogleCashMoney and I am are an example of that. Just because we have different views then about 7 of you does that make us not part of the community and should we be turned down without a fair account for our views?  For all you know, what if they go through with the suggestion and you end up liking it? There was a topic about posting in the comments to see if anyone responded etc, this would also fix that issue.

    Lastly, you don't see discussion now, but once the feature is implied into Hubpages you might see it happening. People who don't want to discuss in the comment section wouldn't start or say a discussion if they didn't want to would they. This would open them to this.

    Losing discussions on the Hubs themselves might lose indexablity. But I'm not talking about keywords-its about community. Losing what others say in comments really shouldn't be accounted on by the author. If it happens it happens, but if it doesn't you should be able to deal with it using the Hub itself.

    1. Isabella Snow profile image85
      Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thranax, does this look easy to read to you?

      1. thranax profile image71
        thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        Personal opinion? No, but it answers each Hubbers concerns. You can clearly see my responses in BOLD cut out of what I quoted. Does this clarify it for you? I don't want to make it hard to read but honestly to answer all I have no choice.

  11. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    Just because someone doesn't see any Pros doesn't mean they are attacking your idea. I simply see no benefit at all to doing things in the way you suggest and I see a number of drawbacks. Not everyone is going to agree with your suggestions and disagreement isn't an attack.

    Not everyone is going to see the same set of Pros and Cons that you do because all of us have different needs and expectations. I don't need help with my hubs, therefore a place to get help on my individual hubs is of no benefit to me whatsoever. An additional forum is just another place I'd have to keep track of and moderate. I only have so much time in my day to devote to hanging out on Hubpages.

    And it's funny that you talk about comments like ""Nice hub! Good information and hope to see more from you!" because that is the kind of generic comment I'm inclined to delete from my hubs as lacking any merit. I don't want my hub comments reduced to "Good job". I prefer comments where people contribute an idea or comment on something specific or even argue for an alternative point of view. I prefer all of that discussion to be kept directly in the hub. That's where I feel it belongs. As a result, I am unable to see the Pros of your way of doing things because to me, they aren't Pros... they are Cons.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Well if its you point of view that you can't pull a single Pro out of it then some people just can't be convinced can they? From how I see it, this is my Pro and Con list (not completed):

      -Place for discussion where posts can be edited and undated.
      -Removes Clutter from Comments, leaving Comments for Comments, Not Discussions.
      -A place to provide Helpful feedback.
      -A safe place to Post additions to consider, you said your Hubs don't need to be added to, I bet someone somewhere could tell you something you never known or suggest something to add to them, wither you add or not is your discretion.
      -A place to help any user having a problem with Hub layout.
      -Can provide a medium for Linking Hubs, aka You have a Hub on Football Tactics and they have one on Football History, you can ask them to link to your Hub in theres and vice-versa.
      -Automatically shows on there Hubpage Account, No email, No viruses, No checking anything but your profile.
      -Only from other writers, the community looking out and growing together.
      -Images can be viewed without needed external linking to them.

      -Scripting issues.
      -Losing the indexable content.
      -Having to click an extra link to a user profile instead of just posing on that page.

      If I said if your logged into your Hubpage account, and you fill in the comment and there is a button only for online Hubbers that says "Post as Forum Response" next to "Post Comment" would that help at all? My idea is in the roughest forum, it allows add-ons that might also help prove it to be more helpful.

      What your doing is taking away any comment, leaving your comment section for more detailed ...I have to say it, DISCUSSIONS smile <---Please tell me you didn't just state you were deleting comments for discussions? If I went to your Hub and posting "Good Hub, I like it" You will delete it, but that is a comment. If I put "Nice Hub, I love air guitars, I don't like your view on used second hand ones but I do like the tips on keeping them in mint condition. Also maybe you should add something about the quality of the strings."

      1. Whitney05 profile image81
        Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

        That's not necessarily starting a conversation or discussion. When a hubber says "read this hub" and leaves the link, that is considered spamming, not starting a discussion on the forums. The hubber would more or less be trying to get traffic and possible discussion on their hub.

        Embitca, I agree with every point you made. I see more cons to the suggestion than pros for my purposes and wants with HP. I like discussional comments as they make me feel as though I've particited users, non-registered and registered, which reminds me, there are typically more comments from non-registered users, so this option not benefiting those people, will drastically reduce the use of the option. For the most part, I delete a lot of the "great hub" comments. I'd much rather see a discussion. Otherwise, I see those comments, especially from registered hubbers as promoting their profile only.

        Some of your pros are already implemented in the comment section of a hub. You can do all of these things already, so why have another option to do it? As for the 1st one, not everyone feels that discussion clutters up a hub, I personally don't see why anyone wouldn't like discussion on a hub that you created.

        I believe Embitca is removing generic comments, not discussion comments. She obviously likes having discussions on her hubs, so for her (and me as I agree with her) your suggestion is useless, as we (or at least I) wouldn't implement the option as there's no sense in having 2 areas to moderate and 2 areas to talk about the exact same subject. There's really no point in talking about the same thing in two different areas, when you can see it all in one spot with the information that you typed up all at once.

  12. Isabella Snow profile image85
    Isabella Snowposted 16 years ago

    You can answer everyone without quadruple layers of quotes -- nothing is clear when you do that, and I sincerely doubt that anyone's reading all of it. It's just too much.

    Remove the text that isn't needed and put your answers inbetween the parts youre replying to. It will be much, much easier to read that way.

  13. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestion neutral sigh...
    The reason why I quote a whole topic is because I'm replying to the whole statement from someone. If 3 people rack up posts I don't want to post 3 times one for each one. It just made more sense to me.

    1. Isabella Snow profile image85
      Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this


      ... at how I separated each part....

      ...and put my answers inbetween...

      You can use the quote function and then copy and paste the tags at the beginning and end of each part that you want to quote -- and when you do quote, try only quoting the actual line you are answering, so people know what you are referring to.

  14. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    I shall learn from your posting tip Isabella. Thanks for simplify it for me.

    Whitney, clearly you don't even see the simplest form of what i am talking about. Look at this quote you just said:

    It makes an area for you discussions so you don't need to delete "Great Hub" and comments that don't merit any change on your hub. Werther it be a suggestion, correction, or question it can go in this area. I am trying to separate all comments (creative or generic) with discussions (questions, suggestions, tips, anything that isn't a comment).

    And clearly you missed half of a sentence here:

    That states A link to a Hub with the url, it then states:

    ^Doesn't that merit a discussion if the person goes and reads the article then posts back? It does advertise the article saying to read it. But it also states to come back to this post and post something like:
    "You Hub was nicely organized. I do have some problems with your quote section from the company. There all mixed together and run into each other, maybe you should think about separating them. Also, I think you should add something about customer support."

    The comment system can work for this, not to the level this can. I am trying to separate discussion from regular comments, I can't say it any simpler.
    Comment Rock here.                                                                     Discussions Rock here.

    By introducing a forum for discussions nothing is mixed in with them, the author can more easily track them, and it is all around a simple process. Maybe it is so basic your overlooking it? Really its a basic concept.

    And you keep stating your COMMENTS are from unregistered users. How do you have a discussion with an unregestered user? You can't-anyone can then post under that name. Discussions can only be with people who have a hubpage account.

    Discussion comments don't exist with my suggestion. Your combining two different things.How is it useless if it gives a place for discussions just for that Hub, what you want to have them about?It is the same subject but two different contexts. That is like saying to a radio station "Why can't I read the lyrics on my radio while the song is playing."

  15. Isabella Snow profile image85
    Isabella Snowposted 16 years ago

    Sooooooooo much better!!!!!! Now if you could teach that to everyone else... wink

  16. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    We're not combining two different things. You are separating something that is one thing into two different ones. Comments = Discussion. Discussion = Comments. In fact, if you look up the word "Discussion" on you will see that "comments" is part of the definition. In order to have a discussion, one person must "comment" and then the other person will reply.

    So They are the same thing. The context is exactly the same. It is nothing like why can't I read the lyrics on my radio while I'm listening to the song LOL Really, that analogy is way off and probably soon to be incorrect. They can already give the name of a track playing on your radio. If they wanted to, they could easily program a radio to also display the lyrics as the song played LOL.

    If I delete a comment it is because I don't want it there. Period.

    It is also very easy to have a discussion with people who are unregistered at Hubpages. They come back and respond to a previous respond. Easy peasy. In fact, Hubpages records IP addresses for all comments so it is easy to keep track of people. People have conversations on all kinds of blogs all over the internet without having everyone register as a site user. It is not that hard and it has been going on for years.

    If you want to keep things basic, then you keep all comments and discussion in one place -- on the hub. Not spread over two places. Do you really think that if someone had something more substantive to say than "Great hub!" they wouldn't leave it right in the hub comments if they didn't feel like clicking yet another link to go discuss it somewhere else or if they actually had to register to respond?. I fail to see how adding more steps to the process makes it more basic. It doesn't. And I can guarantee you that people would continue to have discussions in the comments section of the hub itself even if you had a separate forum where you told them to go instead.

    I totally accept the fact that having separate author forums appeals to you and I think I even understand why, but you don't seem willing at all to accept that not everyone is going to want the same type of thing just because you think it is a great idea. You asked what people thought, we're just giving you our opinions. I think it's a bad idea.

    And honestly, I also think it is a moot point because I don't think there's any chance in hell Hubpages would ever implement something like this anyway. Forums can be a large drain on server resources because they are reloading the same page over and over again as people comment back and forth to each other. And having thousands of forums on one website? Yeah, I just don't see that happening. I'm not a web server guru, but it sounds untenable to me.

    I really need to start going out on Friday nights.

    1. Isabella Snow profile image85
      Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      You're in luck. I'm getting ready to go on a date with my new imaginary boyfriend. Maybe we can pretend to pick you up along the way. wink

  17. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Well, once again it will not make everyone happy.

    Just because it says "forum" doesn't mean it can't take up the same amount of space as the comment system now does.

    I believe not everyone will like this, and I believe I will never convince you. But I do think its a good step in innovation to add to Hubpages. At least you acknowledged I do have a clear point and view and opinion on the matter. Apparently the comment system doesn't comply fully how I see it. But just like I'm not going to change your mind, you will not change mine.

    Making everyone on Hubpages happy is less tangible then this is. I only suggest it because I strongly believe it would help and if I known more about rss feeds and widgets I would make a working example of this.

    I do know small widgets can contain a lot of info and big sites give you code to copy+ paste these widgets all over the net. So making them for several thousand accounts shouldn't be that hard.

  18. SunSeven profile image60
    SunSevenposted 16 years ago

    My less than 2 cents worth of views.

    1. If I am reading someones hub, I would rather say what I want to say in the comment section itself. I wouldn't want to go anywhere else to discuss my point with the author or another commenter with respect to that particular hub.

    2. I wouldn't want to moderate comments/discussions on my hub on two places.

    3. With more than a 100 hubs I will find it(if implemented) so tiring, if a 100 of my hubber-readers want to discuss them individually in some forums. I just wouldn't have the time and inclination. It will be a massive waste of time. I would rather use that time to write more hubs or my many net activities.

    4. embitca, I am coming with you(if you don't mind). Please ask Whitney  if she wants to come along. smile

    5. Have A Great Day smile

    Best Regards

  19. embitca profile image82
    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    Excellent, SunSeven.

    Isabella, would you mind swinging by to pick us both up? smile

    To top off tonight...I am having a party tomorrow. Instead of preparing it, I am deskunking my dog. Awesome!

  20. thranax profile image71
    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    Ok, now that it got of track, I think I have enough Hubber opinion. I tried to explain it the best I can, I tried to make it as clear as possible. Now all I wish for is for the Hubpages Team to address my suggestion. And hopefully, as a user of there site I can get an  unbiased opinion from Paul and the rest of the team that is there own personal view and doesn't reflect any other hubbers personal opinion. I think this has potential and it is a suggestion to the site. If Hubpages didn't want someone to suggest new things then they shouldn't have made a
    "Suggest a New Feature" forum. This is my suggestion, it was to the Hubpage Team, I like the feedback of the Hubbers that took the time to read it and discuss it. I now want to have the same discussion with you Hubpage Team. There are lots of bits and pieces that need to be adjusted into this but its basically the idea I want to give you. So what do you think Hubpage Team? It wouldn't be fair to just say "Yes or No" without an explanation. I want your professional look on it, as if this was suggested to you from an outside company or current user as a plan for innovation and a chance to better Hubpages and the Hubpages Community.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I'm still waiting smile

  21. Louie Jerome profile image60
    Louie Jeromeposted 16 years ago

    I would rather reply to comments at the bottom of my own hubs, even if they do turn into discussions. Turning the comments procedure into a forum would make lots more work!

    Although I can see how this idea might work for some people. I suppose it depends on what you want to do with your hub. Do you want to publish it, answer comments and move on, or do you want to have a debate on it?

  22. Whitney05 profile image81
    Whitney05posted 16 years ago

    I'm with! Even though it's Saturday now. lol

    tharanx I just think this option is ridiculous for those of us with hundreds of hubs as it's enough to moderate comments much less a whole other section with more comments about the same topic. Too much for me to do.

    Plus, this would cause a lot of formating and coding concerns with the team, and something that's really unrealistic.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Once again, its your opinion and your entitled to it. But for the majority I don't think it would be too much work.
      It is very realistic. There are hundreds of widgets out there that can do this. Think about myspace and Facebook, adding widgets is easy and there used by millions of users. And what about rss feeds? One of them can go to thousands of users and many users have more then one feed, these feeds get around smile.

  23. Marisa Wright profile image84
    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Thranax, if I can just summarise what you're proposing as I'm getting confused:

    You're suggesting that the "Comments" section on a Hub should be a place where non-Hubbers leave feedback and comments. But when Hubbers want to make a comment, they must think - do I want to leave a comment about the subject, or do I want to suggest an improvement or addition to the Hub?   If it's the latter, then they go to a separate section.  Have I got that right?

    Has it occurred to you that some Hubbers don't want suggestions on how to improve their Hubs?    I've used the email system to contact other Hubbers and never had any trouble, but then I'm not emailing them to criticize!   

    You have to remember that writers are often protective of their own work and can take even constructive criticism the wrong way.  You may say that's silly and egotistical, that people should be open to constructive suggestions and shouldn't be so sensitive - but the fact of the matter is, they are, there's no use fighting it!

    That's why I say a forum section where people can ask for feedback would be the best solution. That way, only writers who ask for criticism would get it - and I don't see any reason why that needs to be private.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Basically, the simplest concept of it is separate comments and discussions. Comments for generic "I like this" or "Great hub" comments-as from a Hubber or non-Hubber. The Forum section would allow a Hubber to have a discussion with the author based upon: Questions, Suggestions to Improve, Suggestions to alter\change, Suggestions to add, and anyway it can be looked at as not a comment.
      They don't need to take part in this, you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink.     I tried to email various Hubbers without a response over 2-3week periods. I don't even think they get them, a Hubber can put a non working email address in there profile field after there signed up and never get a  single thing anyone sends them.   
      Lots of things are misinterpreted, if someone takes it in the wrong way there is nothing they can really do about it can they? Communications are small and far apparently if I even needed to come up with this suggestion.    I know some are like this, and they can be, this doesn't infringe on there right not to address it, it just makes it so it can be done in a safe, organized manner. Most people if you try to help them will take your advice. Me just breaking this post like this is all thanks to Isabella Snow and her suggestion to me. Not everyone is open to it, but if there is indication of a suggestion it is tempting to at least read it. Also if someone is over protective of there work they should take pride in answering any questions a fellow Hubber might have about it. It proves your the best at what you written, your the awesomeness and these people need your help, your writing effected them. Tell me that you don't have the littlest joy in knowing your readers were helped by what you written. Its at least my view on it, and I know for a fact that is for the majority of Hubbers-normal people and real book authors alike. Its human philosophy, if you make something to help someone you would like that appreciation.
      It needs to be private because non-Hubbers look at these forums. By having non-Hubbers read links on these forums about Hubs and if they like the discussion about them it will lead them to the Hub increasing its traffic by a large margin.

      1. profile image0
        terrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Thranax, your replies are appearing to be quite manic. Attacking each response is really not that good in etiquette.  We really are quite good friends here you know.

        1. thranax profile image71
          thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Not attacking, a discussion normally follows this pattern:

          Topic made.
          Criticisms by others made.
          All criticisms are dealt with with a response. Helping or Hurting the cause for the topic.

          It's not attacking, it's discussing smile

  24. Whitney05 profile image81
    Whitney05posted 16 years ago

    tharanx, I've noticed that the HP team takes note of the suggestions, but they don't really comment in the area. They seem to take note to how other hubbers react to the suggest, as well. An example being that many hubbers suggested and liked the idea to have the option to reduce the number of visible comments on a hub but give readers the option to view the rest of them, and I never saw any member of the HP staff respond, but they noticed that many people wanted the option, and it was done. In this case, it seems that the majority don't like the option, but again it is the HP desicion that counts. But, remember they don't comment on all, or even the majority of suggestions that are left in the forum.

    Also, in response to well myspace and facebook do it, you must remember that the HP team consist of about 4 or 5 people, wheres the myspace and facebook teams are probably a much larger group or people, meaning they have the time to go and do all the coding. I'm not saying that the HP team couldn't do it, I'm saying that if the majority of hubbers wouldn't implement the options, there's no need to spend the time to do it.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I was not here long enough to know that they take note of it and don't address it. I believe all suggestions should be taken into consideration that one of there users are trying to make it a better place and bring innovations to HP. And all sites base something on how there users react to it, I just want there initial reaction without someone else's opinion. Some of the best ideas are given a negative light by people, and the active people on the forums doesn't amount to even 1/20000th of HP total users (I'm pretty sure). No suggestion can make everyone happy. I was against the in-text ads and stated that. A lot wanted, a lot didn't. They went through with it and I now like it (still waiting on account activation). I'm unhappy to hear this. Once again I think a site with the amount of users of it should address its community if it brings up a suggestion. It is there decisions that counts and thats why I want an unbiased opinion of what they think. Again, 7 Hubbers out of thousands isn't a majority. What they think is best should be the only thing considered- I mean, they do own the Site and I'm just trying to make the site better.
      I think its 12, not sure. One code can be applied on everyones account by a main source I am pretty sure. If it can't 12 people couldn't recode such a large amount of accounts.Majority, what a funny word. Can you scale peoples opinions? Once again this is mainly the idea I'm giving to HP, they can change it as they see fit to incorporate anything they need.

      1. Whitney05 profile image81
        Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

        You must remember that not everyone participates in the forums, and as for the majority I was taking into account the majority of the posters the this thread.

        Ok HP staff include:
        1. Maddie Ruud
        2. Jason Menayan
        3. Paul Deeds
        4. Paul Edmondson

        times that by 3 and you get 12, but there are only 4 staff members.

        Jay Reitz is on the about us page, but you never really hear from him, and I've never really seen him taken into account in the staff, but I'm sure he has a big part in the going's on somewhere with the company.

        Tharanx, may I ask you a questions seriously about this proposal of yours.... I get discussions from non-registered users, almost never more than 2 or 3 comments from the same registered user on a hub. So, for me and other hubber who experience this same or similar deal, how would your suggestion help them? Especially when hubbers usually don't take discussion on hubs. Or are you proposing that hubbers don't have discussion on other people's hubs becuase your suggestion isn't implemented, and each hubber who actively hubs will take part in discussions per hub per hubber once implemented?

        I know I am thrilled when I can help someone, and I know that I help people via my comments section, so there is no need for a separate section to serve the same purpose. :-D

        1. thranax profile image71
          thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Ok, first I was off by the amount of staff, sorry about that. >.>

          Second, to answer your question.

          -If a non-registered wants to discuss and not just comment, they can make an account, in making an account they learn about Hubpages and might become an active Hubber-therefore getting more authors to the site and raising its popularity (one person likes it, then suggests it to others etc.)
          -Hubbers should switch to the forum system. Any questions, suggestions, etc that isn't just a comment and is a current Hubber should use this system. Just like any other update to HP like adding Kontera-its an option, but all Hubbers SHOULD use it, just because they don't doesn't effect much of anything.

          With my suggestion it gives Comments and Discussions a separate definition on HP. A comment would be similar to a Fan of say a Rapper. Comments aren't suggesting anything or asking any questions etc. You may call them "generic". The reason to leave these and not delete them is because it shows how many people personally were helped or liked your article.

          Using a Rapper with a Fan base this is what the two different examples would be:

          I love your Raps, there so hood!
          Great song, love the lyrics.
          I love you!
          Great Music dowg.

          Discussions (the things that will go into the forum system):
          How did you pick those lyrics for that song?
          You should write a song about your cars, I think it would be awesome!
          There is an error on your CD back, you might want to get it fixed.
          How did you pick that instrumental to go with that song?

  25. pauldeeds profile imageSTAFF
    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    At the moment there are 3 people that work on HubPages full time, and 2 that split their time between HubPages and YieldBuild.  However, we've got a couple of new people that will be starting soon, so you can expect the pace of improvement to pick up a little.

    We read all the suggestions that are posted here and they do influence the new features that we add to HubPages.  However, we often don't always engage in discussion the suggestions (often enough has already been said).

    We have definitely seen some situations where threaded comments or even a forum-like system could improve the flow of discussion on a hub.  But, we haven't figured out the best way to enable this yet, and it's been a relatively low priority so far.

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I am sorry, I wasn't around long enough to know that the HP Team doesn't openly address all suggestions. I am happy to hear it is documented and prioritized. I made this suggestion because I think it would improve discussion flow on a hub. The idea of what I came up with in general isn't stating it's something that could be good to add, it's stating a possible way to achieve it. Anyway, sorry for pushing for a response, any other suggestions one might have will not request such a response. I have also learned from the discussions and tips I have receved here that I need to include a much more detailed post in the first post of the topic stating:
      What it is, how it will work, etc.
      I guess from all of this discussion it was, well...very vague. Anyway I will keep you updated Paul on the idea, because I now know you can't address it if I get any advancements I will just email it or post it here? (aka like a working example -.- I so wish I could make a working example but alias I cannot.)

      Thanks for addressing this so I know now smile

      Thanks for considering my idea,


  26. Marisa Wright profile image84
    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Thanks for clarifying your suggestion, Thranax.  What you are saying, basically, is that any comment that is more than a simple congratulatory message should go somewhere else, not on my Hub.

    I'd be very disappointed if that were implemented.  As someone else said (Relache?), if I get a comment on my Hub like "good work!" or "well done!", I will often delete it - it adds nothing to my Hub, and often the person is only posting a meaningless comment to get the link. 

    I love it when people leave meaningful comments and if that starts a discussion, I'm fine with that as well.   The information in the comments then becomes a part of the Hub and enhances it.  I would hate it if that information was removed and put somewhere else.

    If comments could be threaded and there was a mechanism for people to watch comments so they'd know when someone responded, that would address the tracking problems without losing that information from the Hub.

    1. Eileen Hughes profile image63
      Eileen Hughesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      If people read your hub and say in their own words that it was good or they enjoyed it then you delete it.  Then that sort of proves to me that people are wasting their time reading your hubs if that is your attitude.  I am sorry but that is what you are telling us loud and clear.

      I know and understand that time to some people is money. BUT  If you read something and like it then surely we should be freedom of speach allowed to say honestly so.

      sorry but you have lost me.   I really appreciate people spending time reading my articles and even if they say good or okay  at least they have taken the time to be courtious.

      I read articles that interest me and articles from people that take the time to comment and read mine.  If it is tooooo much trouble for them to stop by and say so then. Bad luck.
      Just my opinion.  But I try to help those that help and respect me.... Thanks

  27. Eileen Hughes profile image63
    Eileen Hughesposted 16 years ago

    Marissa,  I just re read your comment.  Maybe I owe you an apology.  You said Relache said that not you.  Sorry If I misread it.

    That is still my opinion though.  Treat as treated and respect others thoughts and attempts to help others.  Everyone is different  and we can only try.    It would be a worse world than it is if we were all  bad  or good

    1. thranax profile image71
      thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      This is also a moral reason why my idea would help. By separating discussions and comments it leaves more room for comments. Aka you don't need to delete COMMENTS, just as if it was like a fan. All generic comments can stay because they show "Appreciation" to your works. I known there was something I forgot about, if this does make sense I know it does to me. And going back to what I typed the moral issue of this would fit in smile. I was just nipping the courtesy aspect of it but I never stated it. Thanks for saying it Eileen, I known I forgot something smile

      1. Whitney05 profile image81
        Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

        I know I don't delete generic comments to save room. I delete them because it's like the person is trying to more or less promote their own hubpage profile so that people will check out their hubs. I wouldn't say that all generic comments really show appreciation, but I'm sure that some do mean it. I admit, I'll leave generic comments from hubbers that participate more and have higher scores, as I feell they're probably a more genuine, whereas hubbers with 50+ articles and a score of 60, I tend to delete those, as I really feel they're trying to use my hubs to get traffic to theirs.

        1. profile image0
          terrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Wow, I never thought that. Personally I do not follow hubber comments through the avatar nor the link in a reply comment. I do however believe to accept comments as it is adding new content to my page that continually gets indexed. I see your point though on the 50+ article hubbers, thats a clear sign. Thanks for the tip.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image84
          Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks Whitney, you've explained it better than I did.  Eileen, I wouldn't delete your comment even if you only said "Good job", because I know you're an active Hubber - I know you're not here just to spam.  But the thing is, you're unlikely to leave your comment at that - you'll make some comment which shows you've actually read the Hub!   

          In fact, I find it's rare for any "real" Hubbers to leave a comment that doesn't say something specific about the Hub.  Nine times out of ten, if someone leaves a generic comment, I find that they have either no Hubs, or poorly written Hubs, or spammy Hubs - in other words, they're just trying to make money for jam.  I don't want to give those Hubbers a helping hand, and I don't want to take credit for false praise. That's why I delete them.

          Like I said, if the only comments left on a Hub were meaningless platitudes like "good work", "well done" etc, what's the point of even having a comments capsule?  You might as well just give a thumbs up and leave it at that.

          I love it when people leave meaningful comments and if that starts a discussion, I'm fine with that as well.   The information in the comments then becomes a part of the Hub and enhances it.  I would hate it if that information was removed and put somewhere else.

          1. Whitney05 profile image81
            Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

            That's exactly what I meant by having like 50+ hubs and a low hubber score. I just couldn't figure out the words. lol. And I agree that more active hubbers tend to leave more meaningful comments that show they actually read the hub versus generic comments. I'd hate to have a hub with only "good work" and "nice hub" comments. It would make the hub look blank and useless, to me anyway... Which is why I'd never implement the idea of only leaving those comments and send the discusion comments elsewhere, especially since non-registered users wouldn't be able to participate in the discussion, and those are the main ones that I get discussions out of.

            1. thranax profile image71
              thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

              Remember this is just your view of it. Others have different opinions of these posts (clearly). I think even if it is a spam "Good Job" it still shows effort to even put it there. Better yet I'll guess (trying to read Google analytics) that the people who leave those comments at LEAST read the hub. Every real Hubber knows, if you go comment on peoples post you can easily obtain more traffic. Best yet you can also add a link to it. I have done this with one Hub, because mine was FIRST and the rest came later. In addition to being first I also had more information and better content then this person. At least the other person who made one like me linked to my Hub automatically-I said nothing. My link is still on there page too. Do you think its wrong to leave a comment like:

              "Nice Hub, Good Job. If you want more information on this visit this link: <LINK>"

              I don't think thats wrong, although depending on content and relevantly I might delete it. I don't know-just want your view on it. It doesn't break any rule in doing so.

              Another view I have is what about those people who just put "Good Hub" and move on, I personally don't feel an urge to click on there profile picture. If they left a discussion or really good complement then that might make me want to look into them further. Kinda get what I'm stating? How much traffic would a "Nice Hub" or "Good Job" left simply like that generate? I don't see it being an issue whatsoever.

        3. Eileen Hughes profile image63
          Eileen Hughesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Whitney,  Here I go again. Maybe putting my foot in it again.  You mention hubbers with 50+ articles and score of 60.  Which I realise score of 60 is not much.

          Has it entered anyones head that a lot of people may not all have as much confidence as the majority of people that have written hundreds and hundreds of articles.  Therefore, they may be shy or not know quite what to say for fear (nerves) of being laughed at. So they simply just say good article or very interesting. or similar.

          To be honest it has taken me AGES to have much of a say in here because maybe I am one of those.  Everyone has feelings and work in different ways.   I know for a fact if I had read this link when I first started I probably would not be here today. The thought of commenting and being deleted would have scared me off.

          Dont get me wrong,  I really appreciate the help everyone has freely given me it has been a really big help.  Like anything when you want to learn  reading books doesnt always make sense and some of us need this extra help.

          I try to read all the articles that interest me, and always, always read peoples articles that read mine.  I believe in helping those (whether old or new or experienced) that read my articles and try to return the favor. 

          Maybe I am wrong,  But this is the way I work,  I do want to earn money that is for sure. But it's not everything ....welll.

          1. thranax profile image71
            thranaxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            This is a good point. When I first started Hubpages I had a bad experience. So i was then afraid this was a fraud site. Well I clearly know that isn't so now. Anyway I only got a say here, I only add people and leave fan mail and comments because online I am proactive. I mean-look at my posts for only the start of 5 weeks. I love being online in communities- But better yet I love being a Leader. This is one of the first Major sites I have used that I cannot be a Leader in. I was a Runescape Clan leader of 400 people from around the world. I owned forums and controlled them for this clan. I also went to other peoples forums, not big ones, but they all allowed me an Admin profile when I requested it. What I am trying to say is I have a very out going online personality to be in the discussion, to suggest ideas I think would improve something, and to fight (just like I did for 3 years) for what I think something should be. Its my Leadership online ability that allows me to even suggest this forum idea. Do you think someone afraid or nervous would suggest something and then defend it against people who have:
            -Been Here Longer
            -Have more Hubs
            -Higher Hub Score
            -More Forum Posts
            -More Fans
            -Better fitting with people in Hubpages
            -Appear on the Front Page as Hubpages Best
            -Writing articles around other real professional writers and authors

            I don't know about you, I personally find it somewhat intimidating. Five years ago, I know for a fact I wouldn't have, I would have maybe 3 articles and only about 20 page views total, with a score of about 27. And with my score of 27, if no one reached out to me, I would read other hubs learning (do that anyway) but when I finally do, have the courage to leave any comment whatsoever, guess gets deleted as "spam".  Don't you think thats a let down? I find it almost the same as someone trying real, real hard and then once-after struggling and fighting with themselves to do it, that as soon as there happy and content the left it there, it gets deleted within an hour...kinda like a punch in the face.


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