If the rankings drop WAS permanent - What would you do?

1. 76

   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   With all the hub-bub about traffic drops across the hub domain and the uncertainty about how that may effect hub publishers in the future, How are you reacting?
   
   Did you have an exit plan?
   
   
   Personally, whenever I wrote here with a hubber/writer audience in mind, Ive always harped on the importance of:
   
   1. starting your own site immediately - if only as a learning tool and a means to get more affiliate partners.
   
   2. Developing Passive and Active income sources - and whenever possible incorporating the two together
   
   3. Spreading your content among the top contenders in the content farm/web 2.0 /UGC field
   
   Hopefully, this algo change will be like many and we are just seeing a small drop before everything resettles and Hubs rise back to their rightful place .. but if they dont? What are you doing about it right now?
   
   Im assuming you have some level of dependence on Hubs based income when I ask this ...
   
   Are you checking your stats every 10 minutes and writing doom and gloom forum posts or are you making a positive effort to shore up your online presence and create new streams of income?
   
   This could be a great wake up call - How are you reacting?

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      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I had my own site long before HP and yes, I am very diversified - I have income from a number of off-line and on-line sources.
      
      One mistake I may have made is not splitting my main site off into its subject areas. I did that once and became annoyed with maintaining multiple sites so pulled it all back under one roof.
      
      I'm still ambivalent about that.  It's easier to maintain one site but I am well aware of the advantages of splitting it off also.   I think I will just leave it as is, but I am never sure that is the right choice.

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         sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Im pretty sure your main site is custom coded?
         
         
         if you ever do branch out into category specific sites again, the WPMU wordpress platform does have a superuser option that can allow one to do stats watching, comment moderation and publishing from one location for multiple sites .. I dont have it set up myself but I have seen it in action on client sites.
         
         I wish I had known about the option a few years back. But I would also assume that as someone who code from the ground up the WP platform is a little too dirty and non-compliant?

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         1. 83

            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, absolutely custom coded. I am a control freak and I cannot stand working with other people's code.
            
            I heartily recommend Wordpress but would never use it myself.  I do recognize the foolishness of that, but it's just one of those personal things..

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      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nothing special. May throw a few extra backlinks on my hubs, though - did not decide yet if it's worth the effort

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      1. 83

         Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ayup - that's exactly what Google wants - more fake votes for your content
         
         I wonder what "Engage in behavior that is overly promotional, including excessive linking to any one site or domain" in the HP TOS really means?
         
         Obviously it's nothing you worry about  and if the interpretation of that is strictly for outgoing promotion, you are absolutely correct.
         
         But I really do not comprehend why HubPages tolerates someone who admits to using automated backlinking services to promote their HP content.
         
         Yes, yes, I know: it's not illegal and you don't think it's immoral.   That's all fine, but if Google is thinking HP is a problem as it stands, it is certainly possible that your sort of enthusiastic self promotion could be part of the problem.
         
         If it is, you might find yourself needing that plan.  I have my doubts on that score because I don't think Google CAN identify this kind of activity easily, and I'm sure you think the same, but we both could be wrong.
         
         I would think a smart person like you would have more of a plan than "toss in a few more backlinks".

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            TaxNerdposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Isn't the real concern here however that the good stuff will suffer along with the bad?

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               Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Absolutely. That's what all the noise is about.

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      2. 76

         sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         my sources show a change from 7 to 25 in a page i think you would prefer to stay on first page

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         1. 65

            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Actually I prefer to stay on the first place LOL. But that rarely happens for keywords like google homepage, ya know.
            
            So, the upper half of the first page is usually the target. I'll give it a couple of weeks to settle, and then make adjustments, if needed at all.
            
            Interestingly enough, right now my lenses outperform my hubs, so much for going after content farms.

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         2. 0

            Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with this assessment. On clean browsers, with no cookies, I'm down from 1 to 5 place rankings last week to 20 to 25 today in Google for my hubs. Some are doing better, some worse.
            
            The traffic from other places isn't clicking or buying much. (There's goes my ebay bonus.)
            
            My personal websites are much more stable - but they aren't seeing a pop either. I had started the move away from affiliate marketing a few months ago. I'll think I'll keep walking, with plans to be out in two years.

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2. 0

   ryankettposted 13 years ago

   I would need to get a job and build myself back up part-time.
   
   It doesn't help that I have invested the past couple of months into building a content farm, rather than on my domains about laptop coolers, laptop sleeves and laptop bags.
   
   So I have certainly learnt something about business, but I am young, and not finished with working for myself.... so if I have to go and be exploited in a call centre or menial office job or smelly bar, then at least I have learnt something big.
   
   My part-time will be spent building up a few sites, naturally.
   
   This could be MUCH worse, I could have had my AdSense account taken away. As things stand, I still have that, and hope to have that for some time yet
   
   I may even go travelling, do some fruit picking in New Zealand and Australia, because online stuff was restricting my ability to do that in all fariness.

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   1. 83

      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We do what we have to do.
      
      You are a smart person - you will survive. I know it can be disappointing to see your hopes sashed - I have been there, more than once.
      
      You just need to keep your eye on the goal.
      
      By the way, that goal should be happiness first and money second - a very important thing that far too many people miss.

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3. 65

   Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

   previous to the Google change, I was getting 40 page impressions a day.
   
   I will continue to do online surveys in the hopes that I will earn enough to retire at age 431

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4. 81

   Sufidreamerposted 13 years ago

   Hubpages has only ever been a secondary income, so I will concentrate on my own site.
   
   The only possible downside is that, if a load of affiliates suffer a huge hit, they may suddenly start advertising as freelance writers. The net result is that they will flood the freelance writing market, offering to work at insanely low rates and messing things up for the rest of us.
   
   That happened before and it took a while before clients realized that, in most cases, $2 buys you a pile of rehashed crap rather than a professionally written, targeted article!

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5. 67

   ThomasEposted 13 years ago

   I started a new website last month. Hubpages has paid for three years worth of hosting for it. If traffic stays at this level for long, it depends on what hubpages does.
   
   I suspect it will have to act against whatever the problem is. And, I suspect this could be affiliate marketers, in which case any content that is deleted will get edited and re-purposed.
   
   I've learned a lot on hubpages, I am disappointed that what looked like a revenue stream I could increase by regular work over the next years might go to /dev/null.
   
   I was just starting to branch out into content articles, as well, where I have a lot to learn.
   
   But... I have plans... hubpages was only ever a place to learn some things.
   
   I've taken the step of backing up all my most valuable work on hubpages today, which is a paranoid step, but always worth while.
   
   Then, I will work on my new site until the hoopla dies down, maybe reduce my submissions to one article a fortnight here.

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6. 0

   Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

   I will spend my time working on my Cape Cod travel site - which is a unique viewpoint with very original content - and designing tourist related products to sell on it.
   
   Eventually Google will kill ALL affliate marketing and I need to be ready.

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      Aya Katzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nelle, that's a strong statement. Do you think it is Google's intention to kill all affiliate marketing, or is this the unintentional byproduct of some other goal they are pursuing?

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         skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Google owns GAN and Ad planner (Small business ads & Doubleclick). What makes you think google kills affiliate marketing ? Google is behind 'thin-affiliate' sites and not affiliate marketing.

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      2. 0

         Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes I do think that between state internet tax laws and Google that affiliate marketing is not a stable long-term business plan. It never has been. By nature we just repackage other people's content. And that's not what G wants.
         
         Folks like Pcunix and I remember the old days before affiliate marketing. You had to be really talented to make it online. I think we are returning to those days. It will reward those of us who are creative and can write and think.

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I was talking to my wife about this earlier today.
            
            This COULD be really good news for those of us who were doing well before all the article sites came to be. 
            
            But I don't expect it..

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            1. 0

               Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You know my gut tells me that this is what G wants deep deep within their souls. Things got out of hand. The money was easy.
               
               Honestly there's a part of me that feels so young again. I'm out taking photos of Cape Cod. Trying to figure out how to get the info out to people who want to come here from all around the world, in the best way. Not just the obvious stuff, but our nooks and crannies. I'm loving the photography and writing, interacting with business owners and artists. It feels so good.
               
               It's very time consuming to do original interviews with people and visit them and act like a reporter. But I think it will be rewarded.

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                  sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  My first website is in a similar field - wine and beer tours - micro breweries etc with pictures and personal experience, local flavor - But, i only can really develop new content in the summer months - developing that site was my first truly enjoyable online expereince

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                     Sufidreamerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     We are looking at developing a similar site for this part of Greece - Sparta aside, it is an unknown area yet it has a lot to offer. Adverts aside, we have to work on the monetization, although I may think about writing a few books about the history and nature of the region.
                     
                     Have to wait a couple of months for better weather, then we can get out and about with the camera

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      recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How is it in Googles interest to kill all affiliate marketing ?  Unless you mean kill all competition to Adsense - in which case the world will turn from Google to Yahoo or whatever - don't you think ?

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         sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I expect affiliates are probably one the main sources of adwords buys - and adwords is 95+% of googles reported income, so I dont see that happening this decade.
         
         One of google patents suggests they are working to decide from search terms and individual search histories whether a query is transactional, navigational or informational and we may end up seeing diverse returns in search as a result - some queries may point to a "commercial web" and others to an "academic web" - which wouldnt be a bad thing for "normal" users or honest affiliates

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      2. 0

         Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Google has never really like affliate sites and every so often kills off a lot of them. They say it's only "thin affiliates" that they target. I say for now.
         
         For example Google will just feature Amazon and not Amazon affiliates. Their belief being that the user experience needs to see the main product - not 150 sites that have the same product described in virtually the same way.
         
         They'll stil make Adsense money, just off of much more original and innovative content.
         
         I'm not saying this is great for me. It's just what I think the end game will be - and that's what I'm preparing for.

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            bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Does Amazon run adsense?

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7. 61

   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   I think everyone is panicking unnecesarily.  This will resolve itself and settle back to some kind of normality. 
   
   When that normality becomes clear everyone will adjust to the new rules and start writing useful unique hubs full of well researched information that fit the new Google wiggle. 
   
   Unless of course they live on trash hubs and spent all their time backlinking them instead of researching and writing.
   
   Information nodes of some kind will still be needed and the current farms will switch to new rules and that will be that for another year or so.
   
   Don't panic Mr Mannering !

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   1. 76

      sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      the question is IF it were permanent how would you react?

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8. 74

   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   Josh, What's your opinion on art niche ? I'm planning to throw products in that niche(to be specific animation). I don't know how profitable it's going to be but have to diversify. If i remember correctly you and wayne are the only active hubbers that i know in this niche.

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      sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      online and off - IMO,the art niche is fickle and difficult. Im in as a passion not as an income, although I do wish otherwise
      
      But my experience is in fine arts though, animation is more tech friendly/geek friendly and should have a user base that requires certain software, computer hardware, quality monitors and one could leverage video tutorials for honest traffic. I would see it as an adsense flop but could be great for product commissions and even could be expanded into membership sites or personal paid support and tutoring if your skills are at that level.

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         skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. I was thinking about going under the umbrella of some commercial/open source animation project to market skills(and in turn product). I don't know how to work it out but yeah have to find ways to diversify.

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   2. 63

      bgamallposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have an old college buddy who has a zero page rank for an awesome photo website: http://bernieweinzimmerphotography.com/ … lcome.html
      
      I guess I have to wonder why. Is there just too much of everything?

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      1. 76

         sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         well - thats not googles fault , that site is image based and has no alt attributes, the file names are only occasionally descriptive , its mostly script and even the most basic optimization has not been attempted.
         
         Some of the pages have a great many pictures and I might guess that they load slow for someone without a high speed connection.
         
         Your friends site doesnt have enough details for google to read
         
         which is a shame as it is filled with beautiful images .. i suspect he does fine with private contracts though with a portfolio like that

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9. 83

   Aya Katzposted 13 years ago

   Well, my plan was always to expand into publishing and sell original books as products. I am proceeding with that plan. But I was hoping to use HP and Amazon capsules as free advertising.

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10. 76

    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    In an effort to have at least one forward thinking and positive thread going lets recap -
    
    Some very knowledgeable and experienced folks have chimed in some great plans.
    
    N- Develop your own commercial products
    
    A- Publish your own books
    
    S- Focus on active writing sources/ client development
    
    M- Business as usual - with some "shoring up" of position through backlinking
    
    M - Develop your own self hosted quality controlled sites
    
    
    Where do you stand?

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11. 0

    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    Your so talented, that you'll come up with winter income streams as well. I know what you mean about weather. I need to be out taking photographs and I'm in the middle of a major rainstorm.
    
    Affiliate marketing will hopefully pay the bills for a while longer. I do think if a site is truly original and innovative adsense will come through and so will highly targeted affiliate programs - which is the way it's supposed to work.

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    1. 76

       sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       In my personal example, adsense is not the real contender as it can be a bit of a grey area if adsense sees whats essentially a tourist site as promoting alcohol I could hurt the rest of my portfolio.
       
       But, it does open up a dependable local advertising segment and even opens the doors for me for some web dev and marketing clients who dont have a web presence or more frequently have an outdated one that they dont even know how to edit.
       
       A quality site with targeted traffic can always come up with a way to monetize even if it doesnt follow the current traditional monetization methods.
       
       Even in your example many of the locations you cover may be interested in offering their products online (guidebooks, tshirts, unique handmade items etc) even if one didnt want to do the webdev themselves its not that hard to be the consultant that makes it happen for them.
       
       Personally, i havent been above helping out some of the smaller businesses by working in barter

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12. 67

    lrohnerposted 13 years ago

    I'm not horribly worried (yet) as HP is just a small part of my income and my niche sites are just fine and dandy. I do need to do a better job of monetizing them -- I have lots of thoughts on that.
    I think I'm headed the eBook route as well as building up a better private client base right now. Editing has also been pretty lucrative, so I think I'll be find in the end.
    
    My background and expertise is in brand marketing. Unfortunately, that's usually the first thing to get cut from the budget when a bad economy hits. But it's coming back now so there should be more and better clients out there on the horizon.
    
    *fingers crossed*

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13. 59

    Andrew0208posted 13 years ago

    Checked my relative search term rankings on Google, very intact. It may not be a permanent droping. No need to panic. Keeping hubbing ethically.
    
    It's normal with the slight droping when such changes are made by Google. HubPages domain is presently friendly with Google as of the old, performing better than other traffic sources linked. This is weekend, expect normality by monday.
    

    Take note: Google has made it that only quality content outside artificialy generated will gain her top search rankings and placement.

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    1. 76

       sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       thats wonderful for you .. but IF it was a real rankdrop and this stream became less viable what is your backup plan, contingency plan, exit plan?
       
       Any suggestions?

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          Andrew0208posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          SunForged my Hero, I already got about 7 personal performing sites before now. WordPress and Blogger are also there.
          
          Late last year I ventured into online video marketing via YouTube and others that is also performing well. 

          HubPages remains my most favorite. There were days in HubPages when this crazy clamour of making money on HubPages were less 30%, and hubbers were still earning decent rewards. My Prof. Chuck, Mark, Misha, SunSeven and a few others will bear me witnesses. Hubbing goes beyond just the earnings for me. I can't tell for others either.

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14. 82

    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    well, this is what google wants and what the web was designed to be.
    sites with
    original content
    and information
    such as research,
    in-depth reports,
    thoughtful analysis
    and so on.
    
    I think the hardest part is bringing quality traffic to brand new sites.

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    1. 59

       Andrew0208posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That's exactly what Google is upto. Start your and Get your site(s) up with quality content. Using friendly plugins offered by authoritative sites like Google, YouTube and Facebook amongst others will help your own sites get friendly crawling by major search engines.
       
       It builds, then promote same as you do with your hubs. 2 views daily could grow into a regular 200 views or even more with time and patience.

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15. 78

    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    sunforged, check your facebook, need info asap!

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       sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       responded

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          thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks, you need to respond to my email now though, it seems that technology is against me today as well because facebook is not letting me open messages.

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             sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             hmm .. i need to? I already had to remember a password for a mostly unused facebook account and now I have to open a whole new tab! the nerve

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                thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                haha, why am I on your unused facebook account
                
                Sorry, just a little tightly wound today!
                
                I could get you a million free credits on an upcoming iPhone game asa thank you if you want!

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                   sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   ive already responded (and Im an android guy )
                   
                   I think your on all the Fb accounts Ive just fallen off the FB wagon and have been using the sunforged account less

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                      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      I have to admit I have gone from checking up on facebook constantly to vsiting it two to three times a week (For personal use). I think the amount of social media work I have had to do for clients has kind of burned me out a little on facebook.

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16. 69

    Michael Willisposted 13 years ago

    I guess I would do what I am hearing others say; build my own website and move material there if this happens.
    I have spent the afternoon checking a variety of my hubs in Google just to see what kind of ranking change has occurred.
    I found some had slipped, but some remained the same. The biggest change I have found in the Sports "niche" is that the websites are getting preference rankings over 'stand-alone-articles' such as Hubpages.
    My recipe hubs have not seen a change that I could tell.
    
    Maybe things will settle down soon and/or Hubpage staff can give us more details as soon as they know.

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17. 73

    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    Hi everyone. I am not panicked by this latest move by Google to keep the playing field fair. Google needs good content and if your articles are good this latest mop up will pass over your head I reckon.
    
    Figures are down a bit, but I expect them back by about Wednesday or so if it follows the pattern I have seen and am seeing on my other family members sites.
    We run two online businesses from home and both rely on good original and useful content. One has 47,000 subscribers and it has not been hurt too bad with about a 10% fall. We expect that to recover soon, but if it doesn't we will build that 10% back.

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    emdiposted 13 years ago

    diversification is the key, not just in writing articles but also in investments.

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       sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And how would you go about that diversification?

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19. 93

    Susana Sposted 13 years ago

    I'd take the same approach as earnest, just build it back up! Either by adding more quality content to my already super hubs and/or looking at developing traffic sources outside of google.
    
    I'd also consider creating some new sites and moving my hubs to them, but that would be a last resort for me as they would lose the age bonus and take a while to get high serps again.
    
    I am working on a new website but it's no where near able to sustain me yet....it will in time, but I'm not there yet.
    
    And of course when I write my novel it will be a bestseller and I will make millions

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20. 61

    Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

    Almost all of my hubs which were ranked #1 on Google are now on the second page replaced with short nonsensical articles.  Mine were step by step with photos of actual repairs in progress with some having numerous questions answered in the comments.
    
    Not so sure about the quality of articles being harmed equally across the board.  But perhaps this may improve eventually.  For now, no new articles will be published by me until something concrete is in the works.

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