OK, Fellow Writers! Is it us? Or is it HP?

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  1. Don Bobbitt profile image86
    Don Bobbittposted 7 years ago

    I've been an active user of HP for over 6 years. Over that time, my income would increase until, suddenly, my "reads" would take a hit and my (modest) income would take a drop.
    This has happened a number of times, as you all know.
    And, I dutifully went through my articles and modified, added, deleted and edited them to be "acceptable".
    Here is my question. As you all know, this has happened again, and my "reads" are down some, but not too badly. But, my income has really dropped to the point that I'm not sure I should be investing my time here anymore.
    For me, a decent informative article takes several hours, to write, edit, research references, and install.
    My question is; Am I at fault and am just another writer of Crap? Or, is HP tightening the strings on their purse? Or, has Google designated HP as a "Content Mill" and their search spiders are just passing over what were once popular articles.
    Just Wondering?

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think that's the same question many of us ask themselves.  I got almost totally wiped out in August of 2014, did all the stuff and regained some momentum, but serious views never really came back.  I have heard this story again and again, and I don't think it's because of poor writing.  I think Google just does no like site like HP and consistently does everything possible to undo this site.  I also think the team has made some bad calls that have hurt all of us.  It's very hard to know, though, what really is happening.

      My advice?  Keep what you have, tweak when time and necessity allow and just go with the flow.

      It's frustrating, and those of us who have been here awhile have seen this happen time and again.

      Sorry this is happening to you and sorry it happened to me.  Sucks, doesn't it?

      1. PegCole17 profile image93
        PegCole17posted 7 years agoin reply to this


        Familiar story, Don. No, it's not you. You're a good writer.

      2. Sulabha profile image78
        Sulabhaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Dear Don Bobbitt
        I understand how you feel. I am beginning to feel the same.
        Dear TimeTraveler,
        Your advice has helped me now and then. And I will follow you advice now too.
        Best wishes,

    2. profile image0
      Old Poolmanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Don - It has been quite some time since I have written anything on hub pages.  When I did write it was more for fun than profit.
      I quit writing when I was dinged for "duplicate content."  I asked hub pages to provide me with a link to the content I had supposedly duplicated, and they refused.  A google search provided me a link to a website that had copied my hub, word for word, with a new authors name.  I never did get this issue resolved.
      And then came all the instructions on how to revise all of our published hubs to make them more search engine friendly.  I couldn't keep up with all the changes they were suggesting so I took the easy way out and just quit writing on hub pages.
      At one time I was a level 8 commenter, but found one morning I had been busted down to a level 6.  The only reason I stick around is to keep up with the great hubs being written by my friends who are still writing on this site.
      Your writing is far from crap and I really enjoy the hubs you write about RV's and travel.
      I would like to see Hub Pages do something about "Troll Control" in the comments section.  They just keep coming back with new names every time they are finally blocked.  As you point out many of these Trolls have never even written a hub.  In my mind they should not be allowed to comment until they have published at least one hub that has passed the scrutiny of the moderators.  These same Trolls are able to block you from being able to write a comment by using the thumbs down box and putting you in time-out until cleared by a Hub Pages moderator.  At least I believe that is how they do it.
      If I could find a good place to write I would probably start writing again, but will not do so on Hub Pages.  It works great for some writers, but is not for me.

      1. LauraD093 profile image72
        LauraD093posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        You just told my story...never really wrote here for profit (good thing lol) left after four years,just came back and the new editing already has me fuming!

    3. tsmog profile image87
      tsmogposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I am definitely not an expert. I play with moz.com MozBar. I use it to explore my articles and with articles using their keywords as a search seeing what the metrics are of higher ranking articles. I then have something to compare with.

      HP with domain authority is consistently 89 - 93. The domain for my article or yours is that. Their front page Page Authority for HP is 91 just now checking. My most popular article Page Authority is low comparatively at 46. With that tool you can check the URL for inbound links and other metrics too. I have only 5 with that article. (With the free version you can do 2 per day and you do not have access to all the available metrics)

      I am just now reading up on what all the stuff means to me as an article writer seeking ranking and traffic. Maybe that will offer some hints? I dun'no . . . as I said I am not an expert by any means.

    4. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image83
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Some of my stuff really is crap hmm

      My traffic from almighty Google is down quite a lot too. I can agree with Google that some stuff I have here isn't that good, but then again, I always find much worse articles on the topics I do than mine.

      I'm sure the flip and the flop from subdomains back to one domain is a big big influence in the loss of traffic - I imagine that will recover in time, doesn't it always?

      This is the month when adverts always pay the least, and as the stock market has been crashing - people are investing less in advertising. So I think the losses are a combination of those two things I mentioned 1. the flipping and the flopping from subdomains back to one domain, and 2 the low paying month and the fact the stock market is iffy right now has translated into low investments in advertising.

      ....or it could be I've no clue what I'm talking about, that's always another option.

    5. Sue Adams profile image95
      Sue Adamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      . Am I at fault and am just another writer of Crap? No, Don. It may just not be the season for camping when 2 meters of snow hits your front door.

      . is HP tightening the strings on their purse?
      No ,Don,rest assured, the share is still 60 / 40.
      . has Google designated HP as a "Content Mill" and their search spiders are just passing over what were once popular articles?
      No Don, some articles do well, others don't. I have one article that gets over 1500 views a day, others with 0 views a week.

      I hope this answers your questions.

      On a more constructive note, while you male baby boomers are still here on HP, please help us to convince management to invest in clearing the rubbish / garbage off the site. This could easily be done by only publishing QAP approved content instead of relying on writers to report crap that should not have been published in the first place.

      Keep on hubbing! smile

      1. Suzanne Day profile image93
        Suzanne Dayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hear, hear!

        How many years have we been telling HP that the crap needs to go or there'll be a Titanic moment? Looks like they still aren't listening, even now. HP, get rid of the crap and the boat will float again (a smaller boat). Then build the writers back up with an actual future to look forward to.

        1. profile image0
          Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          + infinity and beyond +1

    6. AnnaMKB profile image85
      AnnaMKBposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      My traffic tends to come from Pinterest, not google. 

      My most popular hubs would get unfeatured, and I would get a notice that it was due to "spammy" content or the like.  I tend to write how-to's.  They wouldn't get refeatured until I removed the Amazon modules.

      I never made much to begin with, but now I'm basically making nothing at all.

    7. NateB11 profile image88
      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Some of it, for at least some of us, has to do with what advertisers are paying. Sometimes we get the traffic but not the income. I could be mistaken but I think advertisers pay less shortly after Christmas. In other words, there is a drop in earnings shortly after Christmas.

      As far as traffic goes, that really does seem to fluctuate and change drastically. September 2014 I lost a whole lot of traffic and haven't regained it totally, though I have regained some of it. I blame it on the Google algorithm update. However, some articles that had lost traffic are starting to regain better positions in the search results, so maybe we'll have to see how it pans out in the end.

      Also, I mostly put my specialist/expert articles on my own sites; not that that has worked for me so much, but if I offer my expertise I'd like to own it and control it. Plus, others have said your own sites can be more lucrative; haven't seen that yet, but testing it out.

      1. gmwilliams profile image85
        gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Earnings were FINE until November 2015 and then they took a SEVERE NOSEDIVE.  Hope it recovers to WHAT THEY ONCE WERE.........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IS....ENOUGH!!!

        1. theraggededge profile image97
          theraggededgeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Do stop shouting, Grace. It is really irritating and probably the main reason why nobody replies to your posts.

          1. gmwilliams profile image85
            gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Wasn't shouting, just using strong emphasis.   Earnings for some are woefully decreasing.  The situation will hopefully improve in February.

            1. theraggededge profile image97
              theraggededgeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Thank you. Much nicer to read smile

              One of my accounts is same as always, better than usual, in fact. It pays out most months. The other has dropped like a stone.

    8. Marisa Wright profile image88
      Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Don, I've written only a handful of Hubs in the last year or so and apart from minor updates, haven't needed to touch my older Hubs for a very long time.  So since my Hubs are the same as they always were, and they're on evergreen topics, I know it can't be my Hubs that are the problem.

      My earnings had been low by my standards for a while, but December and this month have been absolutely abysmal. 

      I agreed with HubPages' move to get rid of the sub-domains because they seemed to have lost their effectiveness, but I now think they were still having some effect.  I suspect my Hubs are now much more vulnerable to internal competition, and since my biggest earners were on popular topics, they are now getting beaten to the Google spots by other Hubs.  Frankly I was always surprised they did so well - my subject is dance, but my best performing Hubs are on frivolous subjects like beauty products (which I know very little about other than my own experience).

      On HubPages there are several writers who write about RV's, and you're in direct competition with each other.  With sub-domains,  if you each had a Hub about a particular aspect of RV'ing, Google would include all three in search results.  Now, Google doesn't want to include too many results from the same website, so it will pick one or two and ignore the rest. 

      I see you've got quite a few blogs going as well as HubPages.  I agree that in my experience, you would ultimately get a lot more traffic if you moved your RV articles to your specialist blog.  However, there is a learning curve to earning income from blogs and right now, I feel you're taking the wrong approach - too many blogs, too scattergun, and not enough intelligent advertising.  If you'd like some tips on how to improve it, PM me.

    9. Linda Poitras profile image58
      Linda Poitrasposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I gave up a while ago. So many things I wrote never got published and I don't know why. Like you said, you work hard to write a good article ... I may not be making money but at least people can read my articles on my website

    10. Billie Kelpin profile image86
      Billie Kelpinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, Don,
      First of all, I know nothing about making money on the web.  We have been creating games, etc. etc. on the web since 1992 and I haven't even made enough for one week of rent for our RV site.  So take my comments for what they're worth.
      But, owning an RV and creating websites for two RV movers, and having created apps, a children's ebook and a print book, this is what I would do if I had articles like you.  You have a BOOK!  You honestly do.  Your audience is RV owners.  I'd take my articles off of hubpages and create a print book AND an ebook, and an app.  (I've created some with ibuildapp - not too hard to do until the end when you need to get a developer to get it in the app stores for you.)  You can format your book on createspace or bookbaby or whatever.  The people in my writing group use createspace
      Marketing is the hard part, BUT, you have every KOA, every RV resort and park throughout the country (and beyond). 
      You really DO have an important book for RV owners. It will probably cost you about...hmmm....$500 at the most to publish with color pages (?) Then you send it out to the RV parks, etc.  You advertise on websites like the ones I created for my RV mover friends. Then you go to periscope and you start showing videos of the places you travel (to build followers) and then you start reading your articles on periscope.  You get a twitter account in some name like rvguru and you give pieces of advise sprinkled with links to your book on Amazon (10 helpful tweets to 1 promotion) You get every dang RV blogger to write a review of your book.  You put it up on Amazon and offer the ebook version free for a month or so.  You take it with you to every RV park you visit.  You get the idea.

      I can tell you that until I got published in the "Lost Coast Review" this month and had a physical version of a story that I wrote ten years ago IN MY HANDS to show people, I had little respect.  Now all of a sudden, guess what?  The people that I have walked around with at my RV park for years, suddenly treat me differently.  My own daughter seems prouder of me.  I could have written until I died and would never had had validation. Trust me, Don.  you DO have a great book that's a Guidebook for RV Owners - a keep-in-your-rig kind of deal. 
      But realize that this is coming from someone who makes absolutely no money by what I do now, but I'm determined to make it happen and it's not happening for me here smile

      1. Billie Kelpin profile image86
        Billie Kelpinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        ps...you don't have to take if off of here until your book is all finished.  You can just copy and paste until it's ready to roll

        1. Don Bobbitt profile image86
          Don Bobbittposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Billie - You know what? Your reply has been just what I needed.
          I'm retired and lately I have been just a big "blog maintenance guy". I keep my stuff up to date, and we run around to some campgrounds and RV shows, learning new things and keeping recent on how the RV world is changing.
          Recently, I have been arguing with myself, about whether to just write another site, or keep with what I have.

          Your encouragement has made me think and after looking at what I have out there, I think I will get off of my butt and research a "real site", you know one where I can provide information and some commercial products.

          I like the advice twist too, because I se so many of my fellow Rvers who just pick the phone up if something doesn't work right anymore. And I have to bite my tongue to keep from telling them,; "Hey you can fix that, yourself?

          Thanks for the kind words. You just made my day. Another pot of coffee and everything I have on the web gets a new look.

          1. Marisa Wright profile image88
            Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Don - I can see you already have TWO blogs about RV's, as well as your Hubs.   So I'd say, definitely stick with what you've got - you're already spread FAR too thin!

            Google likes authority these days - and now Google authorship has been discontinued, that means having a lot of articles on your specialist subject ON ONE SITE, not spread over several.   So my advice would be, pick one of your existing RV blogs and transfer all your RV articles on to it - say, one article a week.

            As it's your own site, you don't have to worry about duplicate content - Google will work it out.  The only thing you need to do is check your Hubs to make sure they haven't been stolen before you move them - you can enter the URL's on Copyscape.  It's highly unlikely your blog posts have been stolen so you can just go ahead and move them. 

            TimeTraveller2 is right in saying that her blog didn't work out - BUT the thing is, it did get traffic - it just didn't make sales, and she felt learning how to monetize it in other ways was too complex.  I think she gave up too early, but it all depends what you want out of writing.

        2. janshares profile image94
          jansharesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          This made me smile, Billie making Don's day with advice, encouragement, and hope. This is why I love the HP community. smile

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Billie:  This is great advice, but it is also a ton of work for someone who is older.  I am in the same boat as Don and write on the same topic here and have tried a blog...didn't work.  I have a book on another subject on Amazon...hardly sold any.  At my age, I'm happy to just keep doing what I'm doing here.  Have neither the health nor the need for all of that, and since you are very clear about the fact that you have made little or no money doing this, what makes you think that Don will?

        FYI, there are tons of RV guides and websites out there...plenty of competition.  So, Don, really think about this.

        Amazon and most other books must be written in Word, and if you are not familiar with Word, the changeover is a huge amount of work unless you want to pay someone to do it for you.

        Whatever you decide, good luck.

    11. TessSchlesinger profile image60
      TessSchlesingerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think the good old days of content writing are over. I think that the days when one earned a fortune on Adsense on any website you put up are over.

      There appear to be two ways to get traffic. The one is writing articles or having a website which comes up in the serps and that's just becoming very competitie. And the other is social networking sites where one has a heap of followers and because one has, Google directs traffic there.

      I'm continuing to write for hubpages because it's the best in terms of earning income, but it's not what it used to be. I think the owners need to be admired and congratulated for keeping it on the road so far. They're fighting an uphill battle.

      Google, of course, may change its mind anytime that they have the wrong end of the stick by eliminating content sites...

      1. Suzanne Day profile image93
        Suzanne Dayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I disagree. The days of Adsense are not over by a long shot, but the days of publishing any kind of crap and expecting a site not to be penalised by it are. If HP was cleaned up significantly and good writing encouraged again, we'd see further earnings. Why else is everyone who has successfully done their own site still reporting OK Adsense earnings?

    12. Sherry Hewins profile image92
      Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      We've all seen this movie before. It's hard to say what causes it. Probably a  combination of Google's ever-changing criteria and ever-constant displeasure with HP.

      Sometimes a single Hub of mine that's been doing well will suddenly fall out of favor. I guess maybe some other article that Google likes better has come along, or maybe I've lost a valuable incoming link somehow.

      My solution, so far, has been to leave my existing hubs here, but I have not been motivated to add any more.

    13. peachpurple profile image83
      peachpurpleposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      honestly, I had been here for 6 years too. My earning was $50 in 2 months in the past but for the past 3 years, it takes 5 months to reach $50 for me. Now, I earn $3 per month, still tweaking as usual. Not giving up yet

  2. makingamark profile image65
    makingamarkposted 7 years ago

    I'm very number-oriented and I religiously keep my stats for all my sites - on Squidoo (did a special archive), on HubPages and on my own sites.

    I'm now getting FIVE TIMES the traffic in a WEEK on a new site that I've moved content to than I got on HubPages in a MONTH - all the time it was here.

    I can't help feeling that the REASONS for this increase in traffic are that my content is now:
    * no longer associated with HubPages (or articles sites generally - as also much better than Squidoo traffic which has always been much better than HubPages)
    * on a new website with its own domain name which describes its purpose well (I get 5% bounce)
    * new dedicated blog and twitter account associated with website for mega niche
    * individual pages for every aspect of my mega niche - means key words are much more tailored to searches
    * I'd already built an audience for my topic via my main blog so all I needed to do was tell them to go the new site rather than to HubPages for my content.

    Plus the website looks a whole lot nicer on all sizes of screens!

    I don't have any advertising on the site (totally deliberate - makes it look a lot cleaner and more credible) so I lose out there. However income from Amazon sales is steadily building..... and eventually will become passive and consistent.

    The only problem for me is I have another site I'm halfway through building and have two more to do. There's no question that moving content is a lot of work and not cheap initially so you need to be very committed to want to do it. However I think the experience to date suggests it may well be worth my while in the long run.

    1. LeanMan profile image81
      LeanManposted 7 years agoin reply to this


      Moving content to a new site away from HP removes one of the biggest barriers to ranking from HP - internal competition. When you write on here you will likely be competing with many others on the site that are aiming at the same keywords - but of course Google is not going to list 20 articles from HP that have those keywords - only 1 or 2. So moving to your own site removes that internal competition..

      You also are aiming at a niche and as we all know Google is not very happy with all singing all dancing, cover everything, content farms..

      I get more traffic on even my lowest performing site than I get with HP. That being said I still maintain my pages here as even a trickle of income all adds to what I need each month. HP is still in my mind a good place to learn the ropes and the forums are a great place to find out what is going on out there.....

      1. tsmog profile image87
        tsmogposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        ++++ Wise . . . stated as a listener listening

      2. makingamark profile image65
        makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        You make several good points - especially about the 'learning the ropes'.

        Except for the fact I had no competition on HubPages for this particular topic. No internal competition to remove.

        It just needed some clear clean space around it.......

        It's also worth highlighting that now my content is on its own domain it now very definitely has competition and has to compete for attention against all the other experts on that topic. That's an arena where I feel I get much better feedback as to how well my content is doing.

        HubPages is fine for people starting out - but there comes a time when we all have to graduate and move on up and out into the real world.

      3. NateB11 profile image88
        NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Spot on, especially about internal competition. If it's already been written about, it going to be tough to rank in the SERPs for it; though it can be done sometimes.

        Also interesting about having your own site and how it generates better revenue; I haven't had that experience yet, but I'm still testing it, need to work on it, but I'm pretty sure my main niche doesn't get a lot of traffic on the Net. Some things just don't. But the fact that you make more money on your own sites gives me some hope.

        Main point that I see, and I know it's cliche at this point but it's true, is that diversifying is always a good idea; even when we're not talking Internet writing/income.

    2. Suzanne Day profile image93
      Suzanne Dayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      See guys, Adsense would not be dead. HP is the one that's got a problem.

  3. Don Bobbitt profile image86
    Don Bobbittposted 7 years ago

    You know, a few years ago, I mentioned that I didn't make much money on HP and that was alright to me, as long as I made enough to take my wife out to dinner a couple of times a month.
    Sad to say; now, Dinner is out and we might be able to stop by a pub for some pub food, once.
    I know, my standards are low, I guess.
    But, I notice Wordpress.org has some nice "ecommerce" templates and "store sources" that I may need to explore.
    Pub food is cheap down here in Florida during Happy Hour.LOL!

    1. MizBejabbers profile image87
      MizBejabbersposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You made enough to take your wife out to dinner a couple of times a month? You were lucky. I never wrote for money, but I did make enough to go to Wendy's or Subway a couple of times a year, but now that their prices have gone up, that's out. LOL

  4. paradigmsearch profile image60
    paradigmsearchposted 7 years ago


    1. NateB11 profile image88
      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this


    2. LauraD093 profile image72
      LauraD093posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I just love you lol

    3. Suzanne Day profile image93
      Suzanne Dayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not. The move to new sites is a good idea, but the crap still remains, all these years later. It is the bane around HP's neck and will never fix itself by itself.

  5. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    While it is bad good writers were punished, what happened, happened. I see many putting the site on blast in forums.I just don't think it's fair. I'm sure Hubpages cares and wants to fix it.

  6. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    Just because you saw much better earnings in the past, why are you still entitled? Things change. The internet changed. It's still a great site. So, go flag a few inappropriate hubs to help the team. It's part of being a good member. It was free for everyone to create content here no one took anything from you. I am sure the site wants to up it's ranking and get good revenue for everyone again..that is the model, right? So just hang in there.

    1. Barbara Kay profile image75
      Barbara Kayposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Jesse, You've got to realize that Don has almost 200 hubs. With all the edits over the years, he has so much labor put in here that it is easy to question if it is reasonable to keep at it.

    2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      When you have spent your own sweat creating, editing, deleting, etc for as many years as Don, then you can feel free to criticize.  As a new writer here, you really cannot know just how much goes into staying afloat here or how many frustrations people have dealt with over the years, all the time "hanging in there".   Don has earned his "entitlement", and his discontent is easy to understand.  Come back after you have been here for six years and let's see what you have to say.

  7. lovetherain profile image80
    lovetherainposted 7 years ago

    Yeah, well, HP IS a content mill.

  8. kj force profile image61
    kj forceposted 7 years ago

    Don....evidently I did something incorrectly or offended you ?
    my comment/reply on this particular write never got posted.
    Seems the format of HP has changed again..I went from a #8 commentator to a # 1..I have been writing on HP site for over ten years and many of my writes have been deleted.. especially my health and medical articles regarding ALL the changes/lies society has been told...long before public knowledge...some of which is just now being released to the public by news media..
    ( since retirement I do medical research and international )...keep doing what you do

  9. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Is it just me or doesn't anyone else think that their are way too many hubs or other articles defining how to best make cupcakes ? How to walk a dog ?  How to raise a problem puppy ?    How many hits does one expect  for the Proper way to comb your hair ?

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You are absolutely spot on with this comment, but this type of issue is rampant throughout the internet.  Only the very best and most informative articles on very specific topics can really do well.  So unless someone has unique information or views, chances are the competition will brutalize page views.  It gets worse every day, and may well be the biggest reason why numbers are dropping for many here.

    2. NateB11 profile image88
      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Lol Been thinking the exact same thing for a long time now.

  10. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    Traveler, I am no means trying to demean or make light of, or criticize Dons hard work and contributions to the site, What I am saying, however, is that I see a lot of trashing of the site on various threads, like their mother took away their lunch money or something. I'm sure they are working on it. It just looks bad and I believe it brings morale down. People do have the right to question, though. It's a fine line.

    1. makingamark profile image65
      makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Of course course you could read a bit more and work out why people might be saying those things....

      If you're saying "I want to have my decision to buy-in to the site reinforced by lots of people saying it's a wonderful place" (the sort of thing anybody buying anything often like to hear - I forget the advertising industry acronym for this well known phenomenon) you will certainly get feedback to that effect from some.

      Others who have been around on the internet for a bit longer and may - perish the thought - have actually made some money on it may take a different view.

      Just remember to ask yourself how much you know about the individual for every view expressed - and keep that in mind when you make a judgement about what they say.

  11. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    And as a new member, if my opinions have no weight with you, I am sorry for that.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      All opinions are welcome except those that seem to be condescending and rude.  Implying that Don feels he is "entitled" or does not know the basics of "being a good member" definitely falls into that category.  He's been here much longer than you or me, so using that type of language with him is unacceptable.

      Don't blame your unwelcome attitude on the fact that you are "new" or that people somehow discount your thoughts for that reason.

      We just don't like being insulted, and you wouldn't like it either.

  12. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 7 years ago

    Morale is nothing to do with writing content in the hope of grabbing a few Adsense pennies.

    No one, absolutely no one, outside of HP reads this forum.  Of those who actually write anything - very few of them read or contribute either.  It is a place for a few to hang around, occasionally giving people support.

    So forget morale.  There is a motley selection of people trying to make friends or money.  That's all.

    As for newbie v oldie whatever.  No one really gives a crap either way.  It's a forum. It's the internet.  It's tomorrow's chip paper.

  13. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    I understand your points, Mark.

  14. Don Bobbitt profile image86
    Don Bobbittposted 7 years ago

    To everyone who has responded, I say; Thank You for taking the time to express your opinions.
    And, for those of you who get some perverse pleasure in criticizing me, a simple writer, rather than contributing something constructive to the conversation, I must repeat a quote by the writer Harlan Ellison;

    “You are not entitled to your opinion.
    You are entitled to your informed opinion.
    No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

    So, I'll take my part of the HP standard 60/40 split of THEIR $1 income and forget about my 60/40 split if YESTERDAYS $5;
    I'll stay quiet so as not imply that my over 6 years of rewrites might hurt the overall delicate morale of some chosen few.
    I'll play my violin on the deck of the HP ship as the Google iceberg tears the HP hull asunder.
    I'll stand proudly beside Custer (HP) as the savages make their last deadly attack on us all, ripping our monies from our hands.

    OK, some of you have enraged me, so I ask you, please go write a forum on how to interpret the dramatically increasing numbers of submitted Hubs with combinations of; poorly written English, horrible mis-spelled words, and rambling nonsensical text.
    I'm confident you can define a way to make ignorance and incompetence acceptable as reading standards for the rest of the educated world.
    Now, I feel better, since I have confirmed that asking a couple of technical questions, hoping for some real technical projections of solutions, has confirmed that no one has a clue, including HP, on what will make our preferred writing site, more profitable for HP or for us and our shrinking 40% share.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this


  15. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 7 years ago

    I couldn't resist that image...


    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this


    2. profile image0
      Snakesmumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Love it!   :-)

    3. C.V.Rajan profile image58
      C.V.Rajanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Nice pic, Mark!

      I remember my good old days in content site Helium (no longer existing now). When signs were bright that the site was sinking, I changed my profile picture to a sketch showing a sinking ship and a person swimming away from it! It looks the time is nearing for HP too!


  16. Don Bobbitt profile image86
    Don Bobbittposted 7 years ago

    Mark, LOVE IT! But ...... Aren't you afraid of being labeled ..... something or other? LOL!

  17. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 7 years ago

    It's us.
    These days everyones a writer, everyones a comedian, everyones an artist and anyone can slam a "poem". Add to this that people usually want to read about famous people or to be famous, and we have the perfect formula for electronic pulp.Lot's of it.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, but the team has the option of limiting or removing the dross from this site, and is still trying to do so.  The problem is that they waited too long, so now the task is overwhelming.

      Despite this, some people still manage to do OK, but most, it appears, have lost ground.

      We keep hoping things will improve, and who knows?  Only time will tell!

      1. hclpd profile image96
        hclpdposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        For the first time since joining Hubpages, I am going to earn less than what I made previous month. This is not encouraging to say the least. I am going to keep my chin up, hoping for a better month.

        1. gmwilliams profile image85
          gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this


  18. Paul Kuehn profile image94
    Paul Kuehnposted 7 years ago

    My HP income has steadily decreased these past two months.  In December I had an average CPM of 3.5 but hardly any views and made a little over $9 with 165 hubs.  In January, my views are considerably up, but my average CPM is only about 2.2.  It looks like I won't even make $9.  Now it will take five instead of four months for a payout.  Two years ago, I could get regular payouts at least once every three months.  At least I know I'm not alone after having read other responses in this forum.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Although it's against the TOS to post earnings, etc. here, I think it would be a good thing for people to do because it is hard for people to gauge what others mean by "good or bad" CPMs, income or views.  Your figures are a real eyeopener, that's for sure.   You've been around awhile, and with that many hubs, you should be making much more.  I'm guessing topic might be your problem.  Try writing about some different things and see what happens.  I'm very sorry to hear your situation.  Very depressing!

    2. Chriswillman90 profile image91
      Chriswillman90posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That's unfortunate after so many hubs and a lot of time/work put it. In my case this should've been my best month since I started a year ago but unfortunately CPM has affected us all. I'm hopeful things turn around though soon.

    3. gmwilliams profile image85
      gmwilliamsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You kind sir AREN'T alone.  There are many of us whose earnings significantly decreased to abysmal levels.

  19. profile image0
    Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 7 years ago

    And to rub in the proverbial salt, the HOTD on Queen Victoria (although brilliant) is three years old, and needs updating!
    I have already started renovating my personal site in preparation for moving some of my work over.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image88
      Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Bronwyn, just be aware that to get good readership, a blog MUST specialise on one subject and one subject only.   

      This is the main reason why HubPages is failing, and why most other generalist article sites have already closed down - because sites that don't specialise are getting less and less traffic all the time. That's why HubPages has just reorganised the site by category - they're hoping that having huge specialist categories will be enough. But on your own blog, even if you classify your posts into categories, each category will be far too small to impress Google. 

      If you're mainly writing fiction and poetry then you'll get far more readers by writing on poetry and short story websites.  I don't know any that pay, but it can help build your reputation and perhaps ultimately sell ebooks of your work.

      1. profile image0
        Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Marisa.

        I'm with you 100% on that. My own site is to be for niche articles that there are a flood of on community sites like HP.

  20. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

    Mine is a different reason for  feeling  a bit neglected ,  My hub score sucks ,  I am a poet , I realize that's not  as popular as it  once was ,  even here !   Hub pages is about money for management . That's always the 'payoff ',  I wish it was about the smaller community that it once was  though . Power to  the poet !

    1. NateB11 profile image88
      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Unfortunately poetry has never been a good earner for anyone ever, this is why poetry magazines have always been more expensive; hardly anyone buys them. Ginsberg got lucky with Howl because of his timing as far as the political climate goes. Mostly poets never make money. I've written a lot of poetry but have never expected to make money on it. That's why I put it in places online not intended for making money.

      1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image87
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Shakespeare would be shocked!!

        1. SieberSounds profile image70
          SieberSoundsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Shakespeare also had it rough.

  21. Jesse Drzal profile image92
    Jesse Drzalposted 7 years ago

    Power to the poet, indeed. Just keep doing what you do because you enjoy it. Don't be worried about hub scores.

    1. Don Bobbitt profile image86
      Don Bobbittposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I found it easier to consider a Hubs score a mystery for me to solve.
      Sometimes, after a glass of wine, I sit down with my Hubs that have a low score and play my personal game of "Guess the reason".
      It's entertaining and ...... well its entertaining.

  22. Len Cannon profile image88
    Len Cannonposted 7 years ago

    HP earnings are down in a general sense, I can't argue, but it's worth noting that most advertisers don't spend much in the months following Christmas where they had particularly large ad-buys.

    My HP ads dropped quite a bit though. I'm going to close out the month with Adsense to see how it compares.

  23. Shyron E Shenko profile image72
    Shyron E Shenkoposted 7 years ago

    It is not you Don, there is also a problem with Windows 10 and Google. Microsoft want us to use the "Edge" instead of Google.

  24. LauraD093 profile image72
    LauraD093posted 7 years ago

    You are not a crap writer (I took a peek at some of your hubs) As I don't ever earn and write here mainly to improve on my craft and fun-earnings have never been a focal point. (I have a 40 hour weekly grind that pays the bills) It saddens me to see some of the best writers here impacted by the changes etc. I have no advice but you do produce well written material.

  25. Linda Poitras profile image58
    Linda Poitrasposted 7 years ago

    You know, it's a funny thing how all this works. I can't remember why I started following you but I do remember you reading one of my writings and it surprised me. I'm not writing things that are popular and most of the time I got blasted for my opinions but I'm not one to give a hoot about b****ing done in typing. I started reading your articles not because I was interested in RV but because I was interested in what you had to say. Its a pretty special feeling to have something to to say and people wanting to read it.

    What I don't like from HP is that they chose what gets published or not. Ok, I agree that they have to check for plagiarized material. Fine. But I had articles not published and instead of telling me exactly why, they send an email with 10 reason why you article may not have been published. Which one is it so I can fix it!! What is wrong with this system that they wont tell you why! I've had an article not published because it was too popular, not kidding ....  excuse me, isn't that the point? And why should my unpopular style not be worth being published because they said so? What if my writings were published and people read them?

    Anyway, I always read your articles. But sometimes I think that this HP system should find a way to adapt to ALL types of writing without prejudice, and be more clear in their criticism rather then the standard email with 10 reason which you're supposed to guess which one it is. I read yours and a few others and I think you need a better stage for your repertoire. Just my opinion ... for all it's worth.

  26. Oscarlites profile image67
    Oscarlitesposted 7 years ago

    Its all been said here.  Many of you have more website savvy than some of us.  Is it perhaps, " the more you know, the more your earnings will grow?"


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