Are you kidding me?

1. 62

   Mishaposted 12 years ago

   Dear Team Hubpages thank you very much I finally received a reply to my request for clarification. Unfortunately, now I have a burning question:
   
   Does the "violation" like this on a two year old 700 words hub with established profit record and about 30K total views
   
   
   
   Really warrant an email like this and immediate unpublishing in your opinion?
   
   

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      Stevennix2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That violation really doesn't make sense to me. I think it sounds like hubpages is getting a bit uptight about some of their policies. I'm still baffled by the new flagging reason, "purely personal", as one could easily say that a lot of the poems on hubpages are purely personal....at least the ones that I've read anyways.

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      recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Is this a hanging chad issue
      
      You missed enclosing the word    'furors'   to indicate that it has changed its grammatical function.
      
      If this is considered to warrant unpublishing then pretty  much ALL the poorly spelled religious hubs that are mostly grammatical nightmares - will be gone already ???????????????????

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      1. 74

         Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Please flag any Hubs you see with grammar or phrasing issues that interfere with the readability or understanding of the content.

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            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ok boss   Now where did I put all those Hubpage staff hub lists  . . . . . . .    ONLY JOKING honest !!

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            1. 74

               Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               In fact, I have moderated Hubs by staff members, including CEO Paul Edmondson.

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                  recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I hope you gave him a hard time
                  
                  Now, how about publishing the list of rules and advice that you have posted on the office wall for moderators so that those with loads of hubs can make their changes knowing they are conforming with some standard at least - even if that standard is open to change as things change with Google ?

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2. 74

   Maddie Ruudposted 12 years ago

   As I've already explained once today, it is impractical to review a Hub, email the user, wait an undetermined period of time to see if they revise, and then review again prior to unpublishing.  We are far enough behind as it is.  We are hiring more moderation staff, but it takes time to train them... time that is taken away from answering the inundation of emails and reviewing the literally thousands of Hubs waiting for attention at this moment.
   
   The Hub in question was moderated by one of these new trainees.  We advise them that article spinning is a serious offense, and if a new user had submitted a Hub with language issues of this kind across multiple Hubs, we probably would have simply banned the account, so in fact you are getting more care and consideration based on your tenure.

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   1. 62

      Mishaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Maddie, hope you feel better and glad to get your attention.
      
      Well, I disagree on most of your (team) assessment of the reasons for the damage and ways to remedy it - but I guess you are well aware of it by now.
      
      What is more important though is that we disagree on the feasible procedure. I believe that taking it slower - whatever your vision of what needs to be fixed is - and with more - umm - dignity - will pan out better at the end, for the reasons Sunforged, Mark, and myself already stated on the other thread.
      
      Anyway, thank you for your reply, I am going to delete the offending sentence and re-submit - we'll see what happens.

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   2. 82

      Draxposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Maddie... what is the objective ?  if you now want to have top class writing and grammar and spelling and are sending a bot to do a job that can clearly not be done by a bot you run the risk of alienating all of us... we are already mostly all writing for nothing or a very small piece of the pie... !!

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      1. 67

         lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Bots are not doing the job -- real live people are. That's why it's not always feasible for the (small) team to respond to everyone's request for clarification on a timely basis.
         
         And I don't believe they're looking for "top class" writing, although that would be nice. They're just looking to rid the site of the mountains of cr*p that's out there and that comes in every day. After all, that stuff in large part is why the Google gods came down on us.
         
         And that's no reflection on Misha's hubs, btw -- I've never read them. Or if I did, it was a long time ago. Who knows. I'm an old geezer with a bad memory.
         
         New rules have had to be put in place to stem the tide of spammers, and sometimes the seasoned hubbers get caught in the middle of those rules. No more, no less.

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         1. 82

            Draxposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            @ lrohner... No Bots..!!!!
            ..well that's even worse, surely it is possible to develop a formula for this that takes into account the type of writing, the level of hits, the tenure of the person, the revenue generated and this then helps the live people apply the new rules sensibly...

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            1. 74

               Maddie Ruudposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Drax,
               
               I understand your frustration, but you were sent an email asking you to revise your Hubs and remove excessive product capsules several weeks before the Hubs were unpublished.

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               1. 82

                  Draxposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Maddie
                  on all of my hubs the actual level of Ads or products are minimal so I have never had excessive product capsules to begin with.
                  
                  Furthermore if you are measuring capsule content in relation to the number of words then this system will never favour short poems.
                  
                  A much better approach would be to remove the Amazon/EBay capsule not unpubilsh the Hub.
                  
                  Also I think this whole idea of grammar or phrasing police is a non runner. This is totally dependent on the experience and cognitive powers of the moderators, if they are dealing with unfamiliar subject matter then this whole system of moderation will be an abject failure. Actually the grammar or phrasing may not detract from the overall value or utility of the Hub to a potential reader.
                  
                  It would be difficult to be impressed with the feedback so far.

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            2. 67

               lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               It would be helpful if you could explain to me what the heck $$s earned, amount of traffic and length of membership has anything at all to do with decent content and how it helps to get rid of spammers. I'm totally lost and don't get your logic at all.

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               1. 82

                  Draxposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Decent Content = better traffic (clear correlation)
                  better traffic = more earnings (clear correlation)
                  longer membership = better hub citizen (perhaps)

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               2. 60

                  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps if staff explained why some of the spammy misleading hubs left on HP for many years, which coincidentally gained millions of views over that time period, were allowed to remain until after the Google slap, would be a very good starting point.  Don't you think, Ironer? 
                  
                  Or perhaps you don't think those type hubs were responsible for the slap?

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                  1. 84

                     earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I saw one hub with over a million hits that was misleading, dishonest and a blind review for a product that has not even been made yet. The hub made wild guesses as to what would be it's features.
                     One hub only from this hubber, badly written, more than 900 comments.......what's with that?

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                     1. 60

                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I suppose this is what concerns me the most, Earnest.  The moderators are reading these posts, and have been doing so, but none of them have the consideration to address these concerns.
                        
                        Not surprising, of course.  Can you imagine what they say to each other in regard to this issue?  It must be supremely embarrassing to those in charge, but not enough to give an explanation to their loyal members.  What a way to engender trust from those who trusted them.  Why should we trust them again? 

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                  2. 67

                     lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Raise the flag, Randy, cuz I totally agree with you. What I don't agree with is that cr*ppy hubs should be kept up here now simply because they get lots of traffic or make money. (Again, this has nothing to do with Misha.)

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                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I'm glad we're in agreement, Ironer!  But still nothing from the top concerning this issue.   Are they afraid to face us? 

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                        1. 67

                           lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Stretched too thin? Yes. Unwilling to impart too much information? Probably. Afraid to face us? I really don't think so.

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                        2. 64

                           Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           the ones that irritate me are ones with  www. pickaname .com in the title and then a few paragraphs on what that other website is about.  The comments show that these are misleading as people post comments asking about their account or an issue with that website.  One author as publish more than 2,500 of them in 19 months and has millions of page views.  No REAL content, no benefit, but is extremely misleading.  It seems odd that these are not targeted.
                           
                           Of course, if these are allowed and endorsed by HP - knowing how many views and impressions it can earn - I will move from product hubs to www. i can fool you. com hubs. 
                           
                           There's money in them thar hills!

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                           1. 59

                              canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              You don't have to worry much about those types of hubs.  Advertisers are shunning them.  I checked about a dozen top company domain names as keywords and they pay exactly 8 cents a click.

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                              1. 64

                                 Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I would be happy to take 8 cents per click when these hubbers have 10M+ views

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3. 57

   TattooVirginposted 12 years ago

   Thats an impressive accomplishment and no doubt a great contribution to HubPages, hang in there Misha.

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4. 88

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   Misha's hub is available in Google's cache.
   
   It is very hard to read.

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   1. 80

      frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree. It lacks perfect grammar here and there, it's incredibly descriptive and info rich (writer's perspective) and is, for want of a better description, a sales pitch.
      
      The Soho reminds me of Breakfast at Tiffany's. Audrey Hepburn is the picture of vintage style. She is the fine wine of previous furors and prestigious not just by skill but by view and prestige, a face that will last forever. Like Coach Soho, it is the Crème de la Crème of early styles that became illustrious not just by flair but by the beauty and spunk they bring to any woman.
      
      The offending sentence, read in context simply lacks 'furors', as opposed to furors
      
      The only changes I'd make were it mine would be:
      
      The Soho reminds me of Breakfast at Tiffany's. Audrey Hepburn is the epitome of vintage style. She is the fine wine of previous fashion crazes and prestigious, not just by skill but by view and prestige, a face that will last forever. Like Coach Soho, it is the Crème de la Crème of early styles that became illustrious not just by flair alone but by the beauty and spunk they bring to any woman.
      
      I wouldn't have flagged this on the hopper for being poorly written, nonsensical or spun content.

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      1. 67

         lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed, FD. Although I did raise an eyebrow when I saw "Misha" talk about "his" Soho purse. I let out a big PHEW! when I saw the guest author's name at the end.

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            frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I agree back at ya lrohner! I thought the same until I read to the end I honestly though Misha had taken a little sojourn into his feminine side!

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      2. STAFF

         pauldeedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If you don't think it's spun, maybe comparing it to these will convince you.
         
         http://article-depot.info/105/leather-soho/
         http://malexandrov.xanga.com/671206145/coach-soho/
         http://reviews-com.com/leather-soho/
         http://www.hoodialoveoprah.com/coach-so … small-hobo

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            frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't say it wasn't spun Paul, I said I wouldn't have flagged it for that reason. It didn't have any of the usual spun signs about it. It looks far more like an article written or rewritten by a non-native English speaker.
            
            I looked at your links, there's no denying the similarity. I still think it's a manual rewrite though. Spinning wouldn't leave so many similarities.

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            1. STAFF

               pauldeedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               We don't think changing a few words and posting the same article dozens of places contributes much to the world (or to HubPages), whether it's done with software or by hand.  It's only purpose is search engine optimization.
               
               If we detected someone doing the sort of promotion that Misha did on that hub today, they would likely be banned.  We didn't have the tools to make that practical 3 years ago.

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               1. 80

                  frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  For my part I wasn't aware that he had. And neither am I suggesting that it's fine to do this on HP. I was simply replying to Will regarding his comment that it was unreadable.
                  
                  I just stated that it wasn't, and went on to say why I wouldn't have flagged it had I come across it on the hopper.

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                  1. 70

                     bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     He Frog, actually a spun article sometimes looks like bad English. I saw a lot of blogs with spun articles and some were nonsense, but others looked just like bad English.

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                        frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Hey bg That was my train of thought. When something's spun correctly there's no chance of it resembling the original article. Or at least it shouldn't, if it's done right.
                        
                        However they're a horrible read, and that was the point I was making re Misha's. It didn't read horrible. And I wouldn't have been concerned (on the hopper) were I to have read the first couple of sentences.
                        
                        I flag (obvious) spun content and will flag badly written stuff. I check for dupe content when I can see that the hubber has a poor grasp of English (generally) and yet their hub/s are word perfect.

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                           bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Lol, I meant "hey", not "he". Too late to edit. This should shrink HP's pagerank to 4.

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                           1. 64

                              Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              lol!

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               2. 60

                  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  And the aforementioned hubs which garnered so many views before being removed?  You know, the ones with millions of views which some thought was actually a contact source for Yahoo, I believe it was.  Why were these type hubs allowed to remain so long on the site when you guys had to know about them?

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                  1. 64

                     Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't envy HP's role post-Panda.  Certainly, they must take action and tighten the rules to protect the community and keep the website as a valuable, income generating site.  I do recommend a blog post to follow up on this one http://blog.hubpages.com/2011/03/improving-hubpages/ 
                     
                     It seems that several long-term hubbers have been pretty vocal with concerns that it should prompt HP management to make a statement formally.

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                     1. 59

                        canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Just looks like the same content reposted on other sites.

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                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I certainly don't envy them either, Mutiny.  But how difficult can it be to admit they screwed up by allowing those hubs to remain because they were making them money?

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               3. 74

                  relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Paul, I think you just made PCUnix's year with that statement...

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                     Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Not so sure about that, Relache!  I haven't seen him around for awhile on HP's forums. 

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                  2. 64

                     Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     too funny Relache!  I was counting the minutes until he posted! 

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                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        HA!  Just saw him on another thread.  It probably won't be long now! 

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               4. 62

                  Mishaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't like double standards Paul. Go ahead and ban me, please.
                  
                  And yes Andria, this was a spun hub.

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5. 88

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   I am actually starting to believe Hubpages is being serious about getting rid of second rate content.

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6. 83

   Aya Katzposted 12 years ago

   While I can certainly agree that spun articles about Coach bags are not contributing anything to "the world", I'm not sure that they didn't contribute something important to Hubpages, and I'm wondering what will take the place of that contribution once all such articles are discarded.
   
   I write quality content on a variety of topics, but to be frank I never earned much here. I was grateful for the traffic that I used to get from Hubpages, and I realized at the time that what people like Misha were contributing to this site was their backlinks, legitimate or ill-gotten and their traffic, which Google helped to stream their way, because they helped Google earn.
   
   Because Hubpages got a high ranking based on the Google algo, which privileges connections over content, people who have content to share with the world need people with connections in order to get noticed at all.  That was the devil's contract that all of us at Hubpages were agreeing to: that some of us would contribute content, while other would contribute the traffic, and all would benefit from the arrangement.
   
   Sure, I hated those thirty-day challenges, as a writer with high standards. But I kind of understood that it was those people who sold useless products to the general public that were footing the bill for all the rest of us.
   
   What are we going to substitute for that? What's the new business model?

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      EmpressFelicityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Nicely put.  I have been asking myself the very same question.

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         bgamallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well, the "authority" websites don't even bother to spin when they continually repost each others articles. Yahoo posts Reuters articles continually and neither gets punished. You have to be big if you don't want Google to run over you.

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7. 88

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   Clear out the junk on Hubpages and there is every reason to expect the traffic to come back. Squiddoo was hit a few years ago and has bounced back- after boosting its quality controls.

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   1. 61

      White Teethposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I know Hubpages has a lot of science doubters and people who believe the Earth is only 6000 years old and all that stuff, but there is not “every reason”  to expect this other than blind faith.

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      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         None whatsoever. Personally - I think quack medical advice is far more damaging to the site.
         
         http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs+cure+cancer
         http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs+lose+weight
         http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs+cure+diabetes
         http://hubpages.com/search/include:hubs … l+syndrome
         
         There are over 6,000 pages on "cure cancer." My vote for the witch hunt is quack medical advice from people unqualified to give it.
         
         No one ever got hurt buying a handbag. Except me when my wife needed a Louis Vuitton.

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         1. 64

            Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            that pricey of a handbag would hurt my wallet!  Break out the defibrillator!

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8. 83

   skyfireposted 12 years ago

   Blame games eh ? I agree that the content which staff dragged down was spun and there is no objection from me on that point.
   
   If we're so touchy about the quality of content here then why celeb/aunty hubs are still in published state ? Remember we aren't going to build demand media here from open social content. If we're chasing professional content that is produced solely to service the needs of surfers then we fall into trap of content farm label and if we allow social contribution then we're forcing anti-seo, grammar nazis and witchhunt folks to bark back at staff. Tough times for sure.

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9. 64

   Mutiny92posted 12 years ago

   Spun articles are not great, but at least they are not deceptive.  If a person googles "Icici Bank login" (for example) they are expecting to go to that bank's login page, not a hub with that search term in the title.  It looks like it ranks fine with google post-panda.
   
   While a spun article is probably not the highest quality, at least it doesn't trick people into thinking they landed on the subject's login page. 
   
   In my view, this type of hub is attempting to capture people from google who REALLY want to go to their search term's login page, hoping that  when the googler mistakenly gets to their hub that Google has an ad for that company and the viewer clicks on it to get to their initially intended location.  It doesn't meet what I would consider a "quality page" but maybe it does for others.
   
   It is somewhere between deceptive and ingenious!

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10. 87

    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    I was reading this forum when I got a pop-up ad. Something about a score card? Anyone else?

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       Mutiny92posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       i got a netflix pop-up  I wondered when it came up

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11. 87

    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    I'm quite shocked actually. I can't remember the last time I saw a pop-up ad. Mine invited to to take part in a survey, but as I was staring stupidly at it, it disappeared. Next time I will try and be quick and note the company.

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12. 64

    Mutiny92posted 12 years ago

    harumph!  I just got an email as well that says one of my hubs was overly promotional and was unpublished.  To be fair, it had 330 word and I had 8 amazon products show, so it absolutely WAS overly promotional based on the rules, but I had already edited a week or two ago and the system accepted it as fine, so I thought it was ok.  Now, the system decides to flag it.
    
    I went to resubmit it and I only have 2 options: 1) save it unpublished and 2) done editing.
    
    There is no option to publish it.  urgh.

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       sofsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Use the submit for publishing button, the admin team will clear it after review. They cleared my hub in  a few hours.

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          Denise Handlonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          hi Sofs,
          you got flagged, also?  I had two flagged and I finally fixed them. Maybe they will be cleared now.  One was purely promotional, like above, and I totally understood.  Best Gift Baskets was a hubmob contribution during Christmas.  I thought they wanted us to promote products.  It is all very confusing to me.
          
          The other was flagged for too much personal content.  That is very irritating to me.  I thought memoir work was allowed.  This was one from Mother's Day of last year.

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       EmpressFelicityposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, funny how that goes isn't it?  It's happened to me as well.
       
       Why should we have to edit our stuff twice, just because admin couldn't set their automatic flagging thingie correctly in the first place?
       
       

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13. 0

    EmpressFelicityposted 12 years ago

    I had one of mine unpublished on my other account - I found out about it this morning, edited and republished it, and now it's just been reinstated.
    
    The thing is, I could have sworn it was one of the hubs that got a "too many products" warning several weeks ago.  I fixed all the hubs that received such a warning, before the HP team even had a chance to send me a list.
    
    As a result, I've just spent the last two hours going through ALL 71 hubs on that other account, making sure that they complied with the 50 words per product rule.  And it turned out that the vast majority of them didn't. 
    
    So basically, I've had to edit all the hubs on that account TWICE.  I'm pretty pissed off actually, and I'm one of the lucky ones - at least I didn't get a wholesale ban like Spacey Gracey, and at least I don't have 300 hubs to edit.
    
    All this for a clutch of hubs that were doing OK before the Panda slap, but certainly aren't doing OK now. 
    
    I think I'm starting to agree with the people who say that the 50 words per product thing is bogus, because the editing job I've just done certainly hasn't improved my hubs' appearance or readability - far from it.

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