Paul Edmonson's blog post

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  1. Marisa Wright profile image86
    Marisa Wrightposted 12 years ago

    Just a quick post to highlight that Paul has created a new post on the blog, giving a summary of what's happening post Panda and why HP has taken the action he has.

    I'm a little disappointed that he hasn't addressed Hubbers' main concern - which is not WHAT HubPages has done, but HOW they've done it, and why it wasn't possible to make it less painful for Hubbers.

    1. Lissie profile image76
      Lissieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm only replying to this cause its Sunday night and I'm not working.

      I used to be a huge supporter of HP - it was my first online home - the first place I earned a $1 - the first place I made my Adsense payout amount. I've signed up 100's of affiliates because I promoted hP as a great place to start for beginners.

      I had good friends here -  but Marissa is about the last one left now.

      The Panda changes are one thing - and I for one have lost $500/month because of them.

      I've not complained to HP or Google about that - because neither owe me a living.

      But what's been disappointed is that as far as I can tell none of the new "rules" that HP have brought it - have actually addresses the main issues with Panda.

      I have experimented - and I can tell you for a fact - that if you hub has only fallen a little - say from 1st page to 2nd or 3rd - a handful of backlinks will get it back. If its dropped hugely 200 pages plus - its probably not worth the effort to get it back, unpublish it, wait until its deindexed and then republish it on your own niche site.

      That's why I'm busy some of my hubs are worth resurrecting for the ongoing passive income that they brought it.

      Its a bit of a shame that have not seen even ONE post from HP staff pointing out this simple piece of advice to those who are confused about why their income is slashed.

      If you didn't have any income before Panda then probably you haven't figured out how to do keyword research yet anyways-  so 50% drop of nothing - is pretty much the same as nothing.

      Unfortunately Marissa, I think Paul is being less than transparent for a very good reason. He's wooing the advertisers for the new HPAds program. I must say I am currently pretty impressed by the eCPM and may well stay with it.

      But the down side is that he needs to have site views up and up a lot, and he needs to make sure that visitors are exiting via the ads.

      Therefore its perfectly logical  to have:
      - lots of controversy in the forums - it adds to page views
      - far fewer ways to leave a hub hence the rule on less ebay/amazon capsules
      - removal of other affiliate programs for the same reason
      - removal of pixelated images - 'cause image is everything to the marketing people he needs to sell to get them to sign up for the HP advertising progamme.

      At the end of the day HP is in this for HP's own good it's, I think, a privately held company and I am sure Paul is loosing a lot more than $500/month after Panda.

      They needed to make changes and fast - but I strongly believe that the main reason for most of the changes we've been seeing - had little or nothing to do with Panda.

      Panda just meant that HP needed to replace their loss of their share of Adsense ASAP. HPAds is that mechanism - which is a win-win for hubbers as well

      Fair enough - because if they fail to make payroll - no ones hubs will be live on this site and there won't be a forum to bitch about it in either.

      I just think its a shame the HP management think we are all so stupid not to have figured this out.

      1. WryLilt profile image88
        WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        A staff member previously said that all these changes were in the pipeline pre-panda so panda definitely can't be seen as the main motivation for the changes.

      2. Marisa Wright profile image86
        Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Illuminating post, Lissie. I've heard a similar suggestion before but not so well explained.

      3. IzzyM profile image86
        IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        While I also agree that this complete post was excellent, well thought out and plausible, the point raised about backlinks seems to be key in getting ranked at all.
        I've been studying websites recently, I mean looking at the whole site architecture as well as reading content, because I am trying to learn how to make a good site.

        I've been looking especially at keyword in url sites that seem to do well - always up on Google's front page anyway, and the ones I saw yesterday were dreadful.

        The front pages contained a series of posts all saying the same thing but with a change of sentence order, and the links, no matter what their title, went straight back to the front page. So at first glance they looked like packed with content, but weren't really.

        The thing all these front page (or on occasion ranked #1)sites had was thousands of backlinks, all seemingly unrelated. After J Penney (or whatever the name was) we were under the belief that Google was going to penalize unrelated backlinks but it seems not.

        If people can game the system with poor sites, how well can they do with good sites?

        1. Lissie profile image76
          Lissieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The issue with the type of site you describe - is that they can quite easily be promoted to the top  of the search results - but they risk being reported (probably by a pissed off competitor) as a made for Adsense aka spam site.

          The trick is actually to swap out the content for some good quality content before this happens. The nice thing by the time you rank on page 1 you should have some income to pay for that content (or make it worthwhile for you to write your own).

          Quality content is not a bad thing- but to me it comes after the ranking not before. Not that you will read that anywhere in Hubpages or in the Google official line LOL

          1. IzzyM profile image86
            IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Wow! I am learning fast here! Quality content comes after the ranking - therefore I'd be better spending my time promoting my crappy sites than completing them.
            One day they will be completed and look good, but until then I have too many irons in the fire and everything is bit by bit.

  2. WryLilt profile image88
    WryLiltposted 12 years ago


    A lot of words saying pretty much nothing we didn't know.

  3. tritrain profile image71
    tritrainposted 12 years ago

    It's a good, general update.

    But he didn't address much of any of the concerns that people have regarding how these changes were made and how useless many of these warnings are in helping us "fix" the problem.

  4. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

    I haven't read it yet, but frankly, I'm getting tired of being included in the Hubbers you refer to in all of your threads. There are how many writers on this site?  I've only heard a small percentage of writers here complaining. I see plenty of prolific writers hubbing away and haven't read one complaint from them.

    Just saying.. you don't speak for every hubber on HP.

    1. wavegirl22 profile image49
      wavegirl22posted 12 years agoin reply to this


      As always, you are the voice of reason.

      Refreshing and right on target!

      I just have one question here, do others really think that Hubpages is trying to make all these changes just to annoy the writers??

      Time is up for all the complaining and maybe its time for a little positive feedback.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image86
        Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Absolutely not.  I have seen one or two misguided Hubbers suggesting silly conspiracy theories about HP trying to get rid of good writers - it makes absolutely no sense to me.

        What I do think is that HubPages is so frantically busy trying to fix an admittedly serious problem, they don't realise the collateral damage they're causing. If they don't do something about it, when they finally raise their head above the parapet, they'll find a large proportion of their best money-making writers have gone elsewhere. And it didn't have to be that way.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image59
        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Okay, You go first!  smile

      3. Andrew0208 profile image57
        Andrew0208posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        When the going was very rosy no one complained. Now after the panda, drastic changes on ground, a few have seen only the supposed weekness of HubPages Team. Hubbers ought to know also that the team are no robots to get things done overnight. If Paul came up again addressing the panda updates; he read and saw the lamentations of Hubbers. I know the are working tirelessly to make here a better place for all of us even working and putting heads together with Adsense Pro staff to improve the platform post panda. Please Hubbers should bear with them to address and bring lasting solutions to still nagging problems:)

    2. Marisa Wright profile image86
      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't claim to.  You're entitled to your view also.  However, there is a large body of Hubbers - most of whom are too busy trying to earn a living to post here - who shares the views I'm expressing.

      1. rebekahELLE profile image86
        rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Your threads read like you think you represent all Hubbers. That's all I'm saying. Speak for yourself only, we all have voices.  I did read Paul's blog and thought it was very encouraging.

        Thanks Wavegirl..

        I'm off to bed, it's late here.

        1. Marisa Wright profile image86
          Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Then I apologise for my poor writing style.

          1. recommend1 profile image59
            recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Marissa - there is no need to apologise.  You have always clearly voiced your own opinion in relation to your own experiences.

            Hubpages staff should be appreciative of your feedback and the positive way you have pointed up the major concerns you share in these forums.  Others are far less constructive in their criticism, but their concerns are clearly different from yours.

            I for one totally reject the idea that we all lay back and submit meekly to the recent issues of poor communication and feedback from the team and the poorly rolled out changes and lack of real consideration for hubbers these changes have affected.

        2. WryLilt profile image88
          WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          rebekahELLE, the reason so many people aren't in the forums complaining is because they've taken their hubs and gone elsewhere.

          Marisa is the Dagny Taggart of Hubpages. smile

          1. Andrew0208 profile image57
            Andrew0208posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Those you think that left went to nowhere. smile They're very much around with their hubs but choose to be calm and observe what happens next. But Over 95% of Hubbers are still dishing out hubs. Traffic is rising once again. It can only get better!

          2. rebekahELLE profile image86
            rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            A very small percentage of active hubbers even participate in the forums. As Andrew says, most are still actively publishing. You can see this on the Hubbers and Hubs feeds/daily notification emails. The only reason I haven't published lately is because I'm back in the classroom and my priorities have changed. HP will be a better place to publish when we're through this transitional period, which will take time, patience and support.


          3. Marisa Wright profile image86
            Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Who's Dagny Taggart??

            1. WryLilt profile image88
              WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              The last person to go to Galt's Gulch. smile

  5. Mark Ewbie profile image80
    Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

    Hello guys.  I'm a Hubber too (only six months though so not a proper one) and I suppose I don't always like being spoken for.

    On the other hand sometimes I do, like being spoken for.

    It's impossible to agree with every statement either supporting or knocking Hubpages, and more importantly, their staff.

    I think it's perfectly fine to voice objections or questions about the way the site is run, the rules, and of course the awful traffic problems.

    But, speaking for myself, I don't think it's fine to crticise individuals, staffers, working for HP.  They're just doing a job, and I assume it got a whole lot tougher recently.

    I'll stop now.  If you want complaints I could go on for pages.

  6. Richieb799 profile image74
    Richieb799posted 12 years ago

    I would just like to put my 2 cents in and ask if anybody has been seeing any good results from the changes HP has been making?

    I for one have seen a dramatic rise in traffic to a hub that suffering directly after Panda, and it is now again on Googles first page for a competitive keyword. Directly after Panda the visitors to this hub dropped to 200-300 views a day, the past 2 weeks my traffic has risen, this hub has been steady at 1000-1100 views per day.

    Other hubs have been better and others not so good, so I think it is fair to say over all perhaps HP's changes have had some good affect, unless it is just seasonal upswing?

    1. Mark Ewbie profile image80
      Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Well the Quantcast today seems to indicate a new record low.

    2. Andrew0208 profile image57
      Andrew0208posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Honestly, I'm not trying to blow trumpet for HP, but the changes seem to be quite tough. I've seen other healthy content farms, non of them has done these kinds of sanitations going on here. Non of them gives me a consistent payout on adsense unlike HP. It is for good, time will actually tell.

      At least excessive use of notorious affiliate links are now things of the past and many more. It affected us all including HP Staff. Now, traffic is risen by 12% in my own experience since the panda changes recently and the drastic drop on traffic. Be encouraged, we are coming out better than before and after panda. smile

    3. lrohner profile image69
      lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Not sure I would characterize this as an upswing:

      1. Richieb799 profile image74
        Richieb799posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Perhaps its just been me that's been lucky then, I hadn't seen the Quadcast graph since the latest peak

  7. Andrew0208 profile image57
    Andrew0208posted 12 years ago

    Your own experience could differ but not so with many in here like others could be different though this is common in the virtual world today after the panda hit not only HubPages, so many even got heavier hit, some have even droped badly on search rankings to 10k+ but HubPages is still within 236th in the US - Alexa. We seem to have different experiences here.

  8. Michael Willis profile image69
    Michael Willisposted 12 years ago

    One of the most common problems I keep reading on the web is that Google does not like a bunch of Ads at the beginning of an article!
    With the HP Ads and the Ads change HP made, this has not changed at all. Ads make money, but why can't they be more spread out? We have 3 immediately at the beginning of the page, unless one sets their 1st text capsule low enough or any other capsule to push that ad placement down.

    I want the Ads for a chance for clicks and make money, but have not heard the issue about too many ads on a page as stated by google is a problem from HP. Could this be a factor in the sites lower ranking?

    1. Michael Willis profile image69
      Michael Willisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Or...could this be an dumb excuse that Google puts out there to target the labeled content farms?  I know you can see cluttered Ads on the top ranked pages now in Google without penalty to them.

      1. Andrew0208 profile image57
        Andrew0208posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        This is business for google and other players. Sometimes the do enviromental cleanups and reset. Above all to ensure quality content control and minimal ads. Many factors to it that are even unknown to users and publishers. All for good, good enough we tend to be wiser about this whole biz now.

        1. Michael Willis profile image69
          Michael Willisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Definitely is about business and the dollar for Google, which I would see things that way also if I owned Google.
          Just, I wouldn't try to omit other sites, but try to tell them how to improve.

          1. Andrew0208 profile image57
            Andrew0208posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The have indirectly created enough room for people to seriously look out for performing alternatives inspite of their present monopoly and usage. We are also closely observing the whole trend.


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