middle, upper middle, and upper class parents wouldn't think of doing to their children in terms of their children's socioeconomic success, education, and future achievement?
Make them work for an allowance.
Give them unlimited funds to purchase what they want.
Provide them with a parent paid credit card.
Fail to give them anything they want.
Refrain from buying excessive numbers of toys.
Send them far from home to private schools at young ages.
Put raising of the children in the hands of a nanny or other hired help.
Turn them into a clothes horse with high fashion clothing.
Teach them that money provides happiness.
Provide chores as a method of teaching responsibility. Chores are for the hired hands.
Made good points,wilderness. Middle, upper middle, and upper class parents can give their children the good life which poor parents CANNOT do. The former have a more loving and kindhearted approach regading their children while the latter have a more brutal, ruthless, and harsh approach regarding their children. To add to the equation-middle, upper middle, and upper class parents believe in family planning, having children that they can afford to take care off while poor people don't believe in family planning, oftentimes having children without being concerned about how those children will be affected. Poor people have the largest families in which children are impoverished, doing without even the rudiments, let alone anything else.
Again, good points made, have a BLESSED NIGHT!
Typical middle, upper middle, and upper class parents are IMMENSELY and INTENSELY concerned about their children's future. These parents want their children to succeed and will use methods to assist in their children's socioieconomic and educational success. They stress careers to their children instead of jobs.
Typical middle, upper middle, and upper class parents strongly inculcate their children to aspire and aim high in terms of education and career. They don't push their children to work, they believe that children should be educationally prepared before having a career. They want their children to succeed, even outsucceed them as when their children do well, it is a job well done. They also will pull strings to ascertain that their children have a great entry level, fast track position. In essence, they want and DO THE BEST for their children.
Typical poor parents have LITTLE or NO concern about their children's future, particularly their socioeconomic and educational success. They place very little or no emphasis on education as they feel that higher levels of education is totally unnecessary and believe that one should get enough education for a job, any job. They stress jobs instead of careers for their children.
Typical/ average poor parents also feel highly threatened if their children outsucceed them in terms of education and success levels. They teach their children not to aspire too high and to be content with their socioeconomic station in life. They push their children to work early as opposed to middle, upper middle, and upper class parents who teach their children to delay work until they are educated and find the right job. These parents believe in the premise that their children either sink or swim, if they swim, fine; if they sick, well.........
Average poor parents make their children be ON THEIR OWN from childhood. They DON'T look out nor care for their children like middle, upper middle, and upper class parents do. They really don't care if their children succeed as long as they survive and eke out a living.
In essence, average middle, upper middle, and upper class parents have the means to provide their children with a good to excellent life including the means to educational and socioeconomic success(A+). Au contraire, average poor parents only have the means to provide their children with a life that is purgatorial at best and quite infernal at worst(F-), failing miserably to provide their children with the means to educational and socioeconomic success, thus creating succedent generations of poor to impoverished people that will continue the endless cycle of impoverishment generation after generation after generation.
To conclude, middle, upper middle, and upper class parents have EVERYTHING and more to offer to their children with unlimited opportunities for educational and socioeconomic betterment.. Sadly, poor parents clearly have nothing to offer to their children but a hellish continuation of poverty with NO opportunities for educational and socioeconomic betterment. Well, I am done, continue with the discussion!
Sounds like an extremely classist and judgmental stand taken. Even going so far as saying, "poor parents clearly have nothing to offer to their children but a hellish continuation of poverty with NO opportunities for educational and socioeconomic betterment." So I take it careers and money matter; everything else is considered "nothing".
Some have different ideas of "success". And I see a lot of stereotypes here that won't fit many people. Remember, within group difference is generally greater than between group difference.
Just curious, what do you think of highly educated poor people? Such as the starving artist / writer types, or highly educated people who choose a passion or calling over a money making career? How do they fit into this?
I vehemently stand by what I have eloquently elucidated. Poor parents absolutely having NOTHING to offer to their children but an extremely hellish existence of poverty and want. That is not a life at all. Hell is infinitely better than what many poor children in the United States have to endure with little or no hope of ever bettering themselves educationally and socioeconomically. Most poor children in the United States are in dire straits and will end up nowhere at all. One can say that such children are well.......damned to a quite pitiful and pitiless existence of the very lowest order.
My son's best friend all throughout elementary school was the 3rd of 4 brothers abandon by their mother. They are raised by their African American grandmother in the projects. This woman is showered with gifts constantly by her church and her grandson's school-parents. They attend private schools, she cooks wonderful dinners, they are so loved!
I don't know if you just don't get out, but there are amazingly wonderful, happy ppl out their who are P.O.O.R. Being poor does not describe who you are or what you'll be, it describes the digits in your bank account... I can't ever get over the fact that you equate money with happiness.
I get out quite a lot-movies, museums, restaurants, travelling etc.; however my friends and associates are educated, middle to upper middle income people. No, I don't/won't associate with poor/impoverished people; why should I as poor/impoverished people are negative and have no goals in life. They are satisfied with nothing. I only associate with people in my socioeconomic class category who are successful and have goals to improve themselves. I DON'T believe in associating with people who have NO goals and that generally describes poor/impoverished people.
In other words, why would a B student(middle-upper middle class people) associate and be friends with F students(poor/impoverished people)-doesn't make logical sense, please.......Poor people have negative lifestyles, negative mindsets, believe that the world owes them, have more children than they can afford, don't believe in education and socioeconomic betterment.
I AVOID such people like the plague. When I was child, I had poor friends but as I got older and learned better, I had only middle to upper middle class friends and disassociated myself from poor children as they were negative and had no goals. One associates with people they look up to, not down at.
Now to the discussion,. impoverished/poor children who succeed and get out of poverty are a minority. The poorer the child, the less chances and opportunities he/she has to escape poverty and to become successful and educated. Yes, there are poor people who become middle, upper middle, and upper class but the majority of poor people are mired in poverty. Middle, upper middle, and upper class children are more likely to become educated and successful because of the opportunities provided to them to do such. The average poor child is between hell and a hard place. If anything, the average poor child will become part of the widening underclass from which he/she won't get out of.
The odds are stacked against poor/impoverished children becoming educated and successful. Being poor/impoverished today= still being poor/impoverished tomorrow. The poor/impoverished are considered to be society's losers and no one wants to associate with losers. Something has to be seriously wrong with a person who wants to be poor and doesn't intend to improve himself/herself. Such a person is utterly lazy in my opinion and I would want NOTHING to do with him/her. People don't have to be poor in the United States if they don't want to. It may be an uphill battle but no one has to be poor if one is mentally and physically able.
P.S. Money DOES mean HAPPINESS, at least to the logical and right thinking mind. Being poor/impoverished sucks. Why would ANYONE want to be poor/impoverished when one can be affluent? Where is the sound thinking. No mentally stable person wants to be poor/impoverished, being a non-person and living in the most primitive of conditions, NOT I!
" So I take it careers and money matter; everything else is considered "nothing". "
Your are correct; this has been made very clear over dozens of posts.
Yes, careers and money are THE MOST important things. Without such, life can be quite tenuous indeed, surviving from day to day to day.
I say this tenderly. I pity you and your love of wealth. I wish more for you.
Yes, I LOVE wealth. Smart enough to become educated and successful. Didn't have to eke out a living and worry about paying the bills, having a roof over my head, and food on the table. To have a poverty mindset is sad indeed. Hope you realize that wealth is good and wealth is truly the difference between living and merely existing.
You appear to be using the; finger in the ears, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you." method of communication. I will leave you to your caviar. I will survive on my tortillas.
THANK YOU, hope you realize that money and wealth are quite valuable. The wealthier you are, the more choices you have. You have better health care, can send your children to better quality schools, can eat better quality food, and can live in a safer, better neighborhood.
Where have you been? Poor people have crap health care, their children go to crappy schools where the quality of education is inferior at best and abysmal at worst, eat inferior quality food, and live in neighborhoods which are like prisons where one has to be home with doors locked before sundown unless he/she wants to be mugged, robbed, or raped. Also, I forgot, the constant drive by shootings which is prevalent in poor neighborhoods. Get where I am going?
Being poor is hell; like being in a concentration camp. Being middle, upper middle, and upper class is FAR more preferable to being po' at least in my book and those who know better. Hope you change and realize that being poor and impoverished SUCKS and that WEALTH is GREAT! You seem to hate wealth, success, and achievement, that is so SAD. I highly value wealth, success, and achievement. I really feel pity for people who do not wish to improve themselves educationally and socioeconomically, preferring to be mired in poverty and struggle, living the most primitive and uncivilized existence.
Have you never met anyone who put in a long days work making minimum wage, picked up their child at the Boy's and Girl's club, got home and thanked God for the beans and rice on the table, played some ball in the park, watched a family show on TV then went to sleep to start the whole day over again? Not every poor person is experiencing a Breaking Bad episode.
What a PURGATORIAL life that IS. Why are you pushing being poor. No one in his/her right minds wants to work a minimum wage job and lead a gray humdrum existence when there is so much better out there. I will stick to being ambitious, successful, and becoming wealthier, thank you. GOOD DAY!
I have met people on minimum wage who curse the job, their life, and why their life sucks. They curse ekeing out a living, wondering if the bills are going to be paid, eating crappy food because they cannot afford better quality food, sending their children to a crappy public school, wondering if they are going to be homeless. Again, WHAT UNIVERSE are you living in my dear. NO ONE in his/her right and logical mind wants to be poor and subsisting on minimal wage. You may be happy with the crumbs of life and being on the outside looking in but I want the whole pie, not crumbs. I want to LIVE,not merely exist at the minimum! AGAIN GOOD DAY!
To me, you appear to be the impoverished one, if only in spirit, b/c you are missing out on some of the most wonderful ppl on earth. Money decides what kind of stores you shop in, not the quality of your character. My friend has inner beauty and I admire her greatly.
I am FAR from impoverished my dear. I am not missing anything by not associating with poor people. Again, I AVOID such people like the plague. I only associate with educated, middle and upper middle income people. Just because you like poor people doesn't mean I have to. I associate and like people with goals and intent, not those who are happy being mired in poverty.
You will never know true contentment.
Like those of the depression era, if you lost it all tomorrow, you would deem your life worthless.
That is true poverty.
Can always start again. Money and wealth are great things. It is sad that you do not realize this. Even as a child, I knew that money and wealth were great things. To believe otherwise is totally unrealistic and impractical. MONEY makes the WORLD go 'round, the world go 'round.
I can't decide if you're being serious, or just having fun with this and/or trying to make a point.
I can never figure that out either. She is either the greatest devil's advocate ever, she is just having fun with us, or something's a little off in Baghdad... Idk.
Yes! It's so extreme I have a hard time believing she's being serious. But not sure why she'd carry it so far either, so I don't know.
NO DEAD SERIOUS. I love success and wealth. I also value achievement and education. It is sad that some people want to be mired in poverty, want, and struggle. If you all want to be po' and wonder if you all going to have food on the table, a roof over one's head, and be 1 paycheck away from homelessness, be my guest. However, I refuse to have a poverty consciousness, mindset, and psychology. I was never poor and DON'T ever intend to be so. Thankfully, I have never met people such as yourselves and hopefully I never do. Where I am from, people who espouse your philosophy of poverty are avoided in my circles and family. You would be looked down upon and considered to be strange. Where I am from, ambition, success, work, education, and wealth are HIGHLY prized. Anyone who espouses a poverty philosophy is considered lazy or worse.
No one ever wants to be poor. lol
But learning to be content no matter what your circumstances keeps depression and poverty of spirit away. It's important to teach your children to work hard and make an honest living, to strive to be all that they can be, even if they don't have a penny to their name. I'd much rather my children learn the value of a dollar that to have a bank account full of them.
I want your children as in all children to know BOTH, the value of a dollar and have a bank account and investments. Also, it is good to give back and to make others' lives better through monetary donations to reputable charities, hospitals, schools, and helping family members live a better life. It is ALL in OUR hands.
But I thought the poor were all money grubbers and they don't have a right to our wealth. So is it good to give or should we hold on to it with both fists?
Not all poor people are money grubbers. There are the indigent poor and the poor who are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. There are people who fall on temporary hard times due to downsizing and outsourcing. There are those among the poor who want a better life and are trying to do so. Those who are trying and have fallen on hard times need help, support, and love. They want to make it and each one should teach and help one who wants it. These people truly don't want to be poor; however, there are those who game the system, refuse to help themselves, and expect that others give them a decent lifestyle without effort on their part.
Well that's a step in the right direction at least. A more positive note from you.
I would however stop putting ppl in categories to the extent you do and maybe just get to know ppl for who they are. The majority wont bite.
Glad to hear some compassion for poor people in this post!
Are you speaking of charities other than those that help the poor? Otherwise it seems contradictory that you'd want to help those you think so little of. Then it seems the motive for the "good" acts would be pride rather than benevolence.
You never answered my question from my initial post on here. How do the highly educated poor fit into this? Those who use their education (or not) to follow a passion or calling that will never make them much money. The starving artists, writers, helping professionals and such who have education but little money because they choose passion or calling over wealth.
The struggling artist is in an entirely different category. Many struggling artists come from affluent homes and are supported in part by their parents which explains why they are free to pursue their passions. Yes, there are those who totally eschew corporate careers which they feel to be stifling because they are more of the creative type than the technical/business type. There are just people, although highly educated, are ill suited for corporate, technical, and/or other mathematically oriented jobs. There are just people do not fit the office, 9-5 prototype and that is fine. Sadly, such people are not respected, even derided in our corporate based society.
You realize this reflects poorly on society and not those actual ppl?
Of course, in this society, the more "masculine" professions are more valued and are paid more than more "feminine" professions. This society place an immense value on the sciences, technologies, and business/management arenas and scant value on the humanities, soft sciences, and the arts. Jobs which are technologically and mathematically based are viewed to have a more practical and useful value. Jobs which are artistically and creatively based are viewed to have little or no value. Have you ever noticed that many parents are aghast if their children inform that they want to be a writer, actor, dancer, or related fields? Such children are told to get a "real" job as artistic jobs, unless one is highly lucky and/or have connections, don't pay very well. I remember a friend who was a talented artists and could sketch up a storm, her father derided her artistic talent, even telling her that her talent was nonsense and that she should be an accountant which she hated. Her father wanted her to have a highly paid career.
I don't know. Seems to me a hooker makes a lot more than a mechanic. But that's probably not what you meant.
But the hooker has to give her money over to a pimp while the mechanic can keep his....well, after deductions from his/her paycheck.
The sex industry is certainly the exception unfortunately!
But then those poor souls are eaten up and spit out. It is sad that the sex industry is the industry which women are paid well. The sex industry is very dangerous and one of the most exploitative industries around.
I agree completely. And I'm glad to see you take a compassionate attitude toward those involved in the sex industry, rather than judging them like most people do. But I don't fully understand the compassion here, while taking a judgmental attitude toward a group of people who are poor for a variety of reasons, including the facts you mentioned that many were simply born poor and raised to remain poor. They are still "victims of circumstance" in much the same way that those exploited within the sex industry are.
I understand that there are certain entitled and downright lazy people who would rather receive than give anything in society, but when an entire group of people is judged by the errors of particular people within that group, you're bound to make stereotypes and judgments that don't fit many within that group. Maybe you'd consider shifting any condemnation to the MENTALITY that is entitled, lazy and thus poor, while avoiding the condemnation of the actual PEOPLE, and especially of an entire group or class of people who may or may not embrace that mentality. You certainly seem to possess a compassion that doesn't fit with some of the earlier very harsh, classist posts.
The creative types have it SO HARD in this society. If one is not scientifically, technically, or business oriented as far as careers go, he/she will find it hard and harder to maintain a middle class existence. If order for one to be successful in the humanities and soft sciences, one has to at least attain a graduate degree, preferably a Doctorate. A Bachelor's in the humanities and soft sciences would be an utter waste of time. That is why so many Liberal Arts and Humanities graduates have an onerous time looking for commensurate employment, unless he/she has some type of connections. It was hard in the 1970s for Liberal Arts and Humanities graduates to find commensurate employment(I should know, I was ONE of those graduates). Those graduates who have STEM(science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) have no problem in finding jobs. One of the reports I have read indicated that those who majored in the STEM subjects will have no problem becoming upper middle class or better. In fact, the article stated that if one majored in any of the STEM subjects, he/she will have quite a comfortable lifestyle. However, not all of us have STEM proclivities, some are more creatively oriented; however, the latter will find it extremely difficult to become middle class and many will be relegated to minimum wage employment. There was another study which indicated that many Liberal Arts and Humanities graduates will be quite UNDERemployed.
While I'm glad you think these people deserve respect, I wish you'd extend a little more respect to all people.
Money has some worth, but it is limited. Education also has worth, but also limited. People have worth, regardless of how much or how little money or education they have. When you value education, career and/or money over any group of people (as seen in your disdain for poor people), it's a perversion.
Do wealthier people have strengths? Of course. But they also have their own set of weaknesses and difficulties. Those in "lowly" positions socioeconomically have their own strengths and weaknesses. It's generally a harder life when poor, but out of hardships come some of the strongest, most determined overcomers.
Harsh judgments of others in the end results in judgment of ourselves (by self and others and even God). To be frank, if you're being serious in all this classism you're exhibiting (which I'm still not sure you are), I'm saddened and embarrassed for you. With such a disrespectful, disdaining and judgmental attitude toward the poor, the loss is not so much theirs as yours.
Compare someone who is sober to someone who smokes pot or drinks alcohol. While they are high, what are they like?
A stalled-out, dysfunctional mental state is what we must fight: un focused, nonchalant, lacking ambition, cavalier, present oriented, careless, arrogant, lacking in self mastery, lacking in true self respect... need I go on? Sloppy, slovenly, needy, us, them, me, why can't I get out of this mire… its not my fault…glub, glub down the drain in a negative spiral which started with...?
No joy of life and no adequate means of earning a living.
Nothing wrong with the do-rey-mi! Nothing wrong with introducing children to paths which provide them a way to earn a living. Nothing wrong with helping them master skills which will benefit themselves and society. Nothing wrong with guiding them toward careers and teaching them about money, balancing checkbooks, saving for the future and staying out of debt.
Yes, child rearing takes minute to minute vigilance and attention. Focus on your kids. Observe their interests, innate motivations and inclinations and facilitate them. They have joy of life. Go with it. Introduce them to the world you know. The one which they will have to survive in on their own. If you do, they will thank you, for sure.
Poor people could care less about their children's educational & socioeconomic future. They have FAR MORE children than they can afford to take care in a civilized manner. They are of the opinion that what is good for them is good enough for their children. They are also of the school that there is nothing wrong w/want, struggle, & poverty.
Rich people care about their children's educational & socioeconomic future.. They plan & use birth control to give their children a lifestyle beyond rudimentary struggle. They want their children to have a better life than they did. They invest & save for their children & succedent generation's future well-being.
Pardon my language, but I give about as much for both the rich and the poor as you would for an arse-wipe. I know both of them enough to realise not only The Truth in the words of The Christ when he saith,
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter The Kingdom of GOD;"
but The Truth also that Christianity today refuses to acknowledge when he saith - to his own select few, of the poor masses that thronged after him whilst he was on earth.......
"To you it has been given to know the secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has not been given."
Be it the rich that he damned with the first words of his I have quoted (and do note my use of the word, "damned") or the poor that were damned by their very own words,
"His blood be on us and on our children;"
neither has the place in my heart that the man has of whom it is written,
"not of the world:"
and regardless of whether he is of they obedient to the point where thou canst deceive him into believing he "has to at least attain a graduate degree, preferably a Doctorate," before he can even earn a living - not to talk of making a success out of life; or he rebels enough to have thee scourge him over whore-mongering or homosexuality, with the sexually transmitted diseases that have been specially reserved only for those like unto him; or be he rebellious to the extent where thou has to then scourge him with afflictions even worse - afflictions that has him be then no more than cadaver for The Hypocrisy of the Hippocrates Oath, that go by the name Psychiatry; or be then no more than the John Doe thou bothers not to hide then thy scorn of, when thou walks past his corpse on the streets.
His is neither a case of being rich, nor a case of being poor - for being "relegated to minimum wage employment" can be as much of the fate of one that had "rich people" as parents, as it is more often said to be the fate of one with "poor parents" as family; and "the starving artist/writer types, or highly educated people who chose a passion or calling over a money-making career" come from any of upper, middle, and lower class. His, rather, is a case of those words I will once more quote.....
"not of the world."
And, believe me, even when he realises it not - as most don't of the educated that thou deceives into believing there has ever been anything like unto an "unemployment crisis" for any other but those like unto them, and of the homosexual/whore-mongerer that thou deceives into believing he in particular has to place an especial trust in condoms - or be stricken by HIV/AIDS and the like, and of the cadaver that thou deceives into believing he still has any relative living - whilst locked up in mental asylums, with no inkling of The Truth behind the Word,
"and a man's enemies will be the members of his own household."
There was a study done that clarifies that lower, working, & lower middle class parents raise their children far differently than solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class parents. The way lower, working, & lower middle class parents raise their children consign their children into their original social class. Lower, working, & lower middle class parents raise their children to be blindly obedient to authority. Such parents don't discuss things with their children, they just order them to be unthinkingly obedient.
Solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class parents raise their children to think for themselves. They realize that in order for their children to be successful in school & eventually as adults, children must learn to be independent thinkers, not obedient automatons. In solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class environments, children are encourage to discuss things with their parents & to be independent while in lower, working, & lower middle class homes, children are to be seen, not ever heard.
The environment of the lower, working, & lower middle class encourage children to be obedient automatons who will only be lower, working, & lower middle class. Children in the lower, working, & lower middle class are inculcated by their parents to blindly accept their station in life & to never confront, even being fearful of authority. Children in the solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class are taught to question & improve their environment.
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