Guaranteed Basic Income

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   gmwilliamsposted 8 years ago

   
   As of yesterday, Swiss voted rejected the proposal for a guaranteed basic income.   However, there are those who believe that everyone should have a basic income.  They further assert that w/increasing automation & computerization, there will be LESS jobs in the future.  They maintain that guaranteed basic income should replace welfare & that everyone should receive basic income to guarantee a decent standard of living w/o being a slave to work.   YOUR thoughts?

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      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      That is a tough one, Europeans seem more civilized about these sorts of things than Americans.
      
      But, being American, I have a bias that people should work if they are able. That is, of course, if there are jobs available. I fear that the future just as you say will mean fewer jobs in the conventional sense. I will say that people should not be allowed into destitution through no fault of their own.

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         When people refuse to follow the work or move to where it is, whose fault is it?  When they refuse to re-train, to improve their skills, whose fault is it?  When they make drugs a life-style, whose fault is it?  When they have too many children to support, whose fault is it?
         
         Shall we blame the nation as a whole because we refuse to pay the prices of buying American?  Shall we blame the rich because they DO have the skills to earn a good wage?  Shall we blame business for wanting a modest 5% profit?  Shall we blame politicians for not creating great paying jobs out of thin air?
         
         Who is at fault?

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            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It is always the conservative attitude that people are not working because they do not want to work, that is the crux of your argument. And often times, it is completely incorrect.

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               colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               No it is not, 'always the conservative attitude".  I know many liberals who believe in working for a living and have a negative attitude toward people who don't want to work to get ahead.  They say, "get a job!"  The working class is made up of R's and D's, and more... 
               
               There are plenty of conservatives not seeking employment too. Its not party related, its human related, and the job market sucks.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  But, as you have demonstrated with the Alex Jones contribution, the idea that vast majority of EBT and public assistance goes to minorities is a constant message that they broadcast, either subtly or using the blantant style of Donald Trump.
                  
                  There are many causes as to why the job market 'sucks'. Most of them are a-political.

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                     colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     As the working class and middle class decreases, the minority is becoming a majority that crosses all lines of argument, to 'people' who depend on the government for assistance.  Minorities have always been the dependent majority, single moms, families with children, disabled, unemployed, under employed and the list goes on.   
                     
                     Alex Jones contributes the facts, things that actually happen. How terrible!
                     
                     Its political when our manufacturing jobs are moving to other countries because of bad trade deals,  NAFTA and CAFTA.  Do we really want to keep those policies and politicians that have sold us out?  Trump and Sanders are the only ones talking common sense on trade.

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   2. 78

      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I see the vote was 23.1 for Basic Income and 76.9 against. The proposal was for $3400 USD per month for Swiss citizens and legal foreigners living there for 5 years, just for the adults. It think that was doomed to fail.

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   Rochelle Frankposted 8 years ago

   Who pays for it?

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      gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      While conventional thought maintain that the taxpayer will pay for basic income, there are proponents who contend that there is enough money in the Federal Reserve to support basic income for all.  However, there are elements who contain that the 1% should pay for basic income.

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         Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         There is the big difference. Some countries are a credit nation countries.
         
         Where the US is debtors nation and first problem is collapsing
         Why would puppet Masters be concern about fair wages where the greedy won't ever print fake money to help out..
         
         Greed is finally in a corner and can no longer lie themselves out of it.

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   wildernessposted 8 years ago

   It is interesting that the people of Sweden refused the plan primarily because it would turn the country into a magnet for those that don't want to work.  Some people recognize that making life free does not translate into motivation to work and produce.

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      gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Proponents of the basic wage contend that granting people a basic wage "frees" them from the "slavery" of work to do "more creative" things.     People have to keep abreast of work trend & continue to upgrade, even revamp their educational & skill qualifications if they want to keep employed.  People have to be PROACTIVE in terms of their employment.  It ISN'T the corporation's job to keep people skilled, it is  PEOPLE'S job to keep themselves skilled & viable in the workplace.

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         Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         That is one of the major problems is Corporatism take over. They don't want smaller enterprise businesses in competition with them, so the Government allows them to crush  them. Large Corporation do not care about America only their bottom line, profit.

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            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            How do corporations "crush" small business?  By offering lower prices (that consumers demand) that small businesses cannot match and thus lose business? 
            
            Is that not the fault of the consumer, refusing to buy from the local store at half again the price rather than the big chain store at a much cheaper price?  Do you think consumers would put up with a government mandate for big chains to raise their prices 50% to compensate?  Should government subsidize small business so that they can match prices, but have no incentive to reduce them on their own?

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               Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               American corporatism since 70s has taken over and has raise the cost of basic living 10times wail wages are the same. There are some products that have improved yet most are toxic. There is 90% of the world's  population north of the equator and 95% of it is pollution. The BS brainwashing is so incredibly high that a good chance that most will die in the  Northern hemisphere from nuclear war and economic collapse.
               
               I'm rethinking about selling off my houses and property and moving to Bolivia or Chile. Where the nuke are far less chance of hitting south America. Many rich are buying their future haven there.

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         Rochelle Frankposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         That is very idealistic, and it would be great if it really worked that way.  Many or most people need an incentive to to upgrade their education and skills.
         
         Have you ever worked really hard, perhaps for little money, and finally had the satisfaction of finding the strength to achieve a goal with out a handout or help? It is a real confidence builder. It is called "independence" -- having the freedom to "depend" on what's "in" you. It results in a feeling of gratification and pride, especially if there were difficulties to overcome.
         
         Yes, some people need help,  and I have no problem with helping someone out of a tight spot, but those who always expect a guaranteed handout often seem to feel that they should be getting more... and more.
         Most people would be happy to do their "creative things".  We could all sit around painting pictures, making jewelry, and gluing sequins to flower pots and sell them to each other. Eventually someone would figure out that we need to do some real work like road repairs, construction, planting, harvesting, cleaning, dishwashing and taking away the garbage.

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            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Being mostly a successful artist all my life. I've been poor sometimes and rich enough most often.
            
            North America has been become so over focus on finances. Plus sooo unconstitutional and  unbalance it's becoming a unhealthy lifestyles for too many.  Even worst it seem most people work only for the rich where their recycle money just goes to the rich, not their own dream's. There has to be a much better purpose in life other than over populating and being slave's.

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      Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      What I found made them efficient in work and personal in life in many parts of Northern Europe. They let Their children be children and play.
      
      They teach how to find happiness and kinds of work they will like. Lived in  Norway for a little wail.
      
      Also the Arts and Culture they give 2% of their income tax to.
      
      The euro is keeping the dollar alive. Yet both will not live for long.

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   calculus-geometryposted 8 years ago

   It is still far too early for basic income at this point in our technological development. But in the future when almost everything is automated and streamlined and reproduction rates have fallen enough that the population starts to decrease, I'd bet we would either have universal income or the necessities would be free.  There may not be much real work for anyone to do to earn income as we know it now.
   
   Look how much humans have advanced since the Neolithic revolution ten thousand years ago, how much easier it is for even a homeless person nowadays to find food and shelter than it was for a "rich" Neolithic human. Hell, I've seen homeless people with iPads. Who can imagine what life will be like a thousand or ten thousand years from now?

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      GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Geesh! What a buzz-killer.
      
      GA

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         calculus-geometryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         So buzz off then.

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            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Today's cell and laptop the elite have planted tapping devices that will soon know everything that we have communicated. Maybe soon this Internet will be cancelled due security issue. In switch of the real reality's truths.
            
            They want to connect with homeless person so they can put them onto the : it's cheaper to kill him  program:
            
            When the Government lies just about everything. Why not lie about our life expectancy. From my studies we are already living shorter lifespan. Due to overpopulation is unsustainable in the Northern hemisphere.

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               calculus-geometryposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               The northern hemisphere will not become unsustainably over populated, just look at the abysmal birth rates among native Europeans .  They are not oddballs, they are simply ahead of the rest of the world.  Pretty soon the rest of the world will catch "up," or rather, down, and also see birth rates below replacement level.  By then we will have robots for picking the crops, collecting the garbage, maybe even robots for politicians!

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                  Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  We certainly have many robots and zombies out there.
                  
                  Yes we soon have robots replacing human jobs. Then what do we do about the unemployed humans? Put them on the cheaper to kill them program too. The UN propose to bring  down world population to 3 billion. People like Bill Gate and Ted want it down to 1/2 billion and want the world to be totally energies by nuclear power.

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            GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Boy, you sure told me. And with such cute word-play too.
            
            GA

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               colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I got a kick out of cute buzz-off exchange.

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   ProblematicFaveposted 8 years ago

   I find basic income (and the related concept of a negative income tax) a very interesting concept. In small test programs (there was an interesting one in Canada in the 70's, for example), it has had a lot of success in improving the physical and financial health of the recipients, and I think it could do absolutely wonderful things for entrepreneurship and the arts, since people would have more freedom to quit their jobs to pursue their dreams.
   
   On the other hand, paying for it on a national scale would be difficult, to put it mildly, and I think there are issues that should be given more urgent priority in America today, like introducing single payer health care.

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