How dumb is that?
- thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years ago
0Speak for yourself sweetheart. I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 more adequately. I am constantly amazed at the wonders of evolutionary biology and the knowledge we gain almost daily from new experiments and exploration.
You demonstrating your incredible ignorance and lack of education is not persuading me of anything the than your inability to understand complex processes that contradict your pathetic belief system.
And as I always say, "You can do an awful lot with an endless supply of cheap labor."
And where is all the slave labor?
Do you honestly think dumbing the education system down to "a invisible super being dun it - praize be to jeebus! " is going to help educate your children? I think you will find the general level of education is higher than it was 200 years ago.
The truth? Religionists are fools skeered no one beleebs in jeebus any more. If you really want to increase the level of education - bleating about proven scientific facts being taught in school is not really helping your case.
Sorry you are too ignorant to understand the incredibly complex processes that go into you being able to communicate instantaneously with some one 6000 miles away and think "test scores" are the measure of civilization's level of understanding.
Admittedly, the level of education in your country could be an awful lot higher - pity you do not understand that it is in the government inc's interests to keep it that way. As it was when the churches held the power
Wow!! I didn't see this underlying message in any of the original post. Annnnyyyy whoooooo
That is because "thetruthhurts is a big fan of covering up what it really means to say with what appears to be reasonable statements. This is what religionists (politicians) do.
Is this the tower of Babel?
I tell ya in a week.
How is that "explaining what the bible really means" going for ya?
Sad to say - There is only one recourse.
Give them what they are asking for. Ridicule and "unwarranted persecution."
I agree with you and we have the language of Sanskrit which has so much details or just take a simple example in Hindi, there is tum and aap , tum is for someone your own age and aap is for someone elderly while in English it doesn't exist its just you.
The musical notes are twice the number in Sanskrit than one has in English, much more depth.
Earlier man would think on grand scales and for hundreds of years and they were superb architects and mathematicians.
The Taj Mahal is build on certain wood pillars at a turn in the river.This ensures the wood remains wet, when dry the wood has a life span of four hundred year and when wet it doubles to eight hundred.
Then the ancient South Americans build with the movement of the sun and equinoxes in mind with such precision its is simply awesome.But let us not forget ... early man had thousands of years to ponder and figure things out. The great minds of modern history only existed over about a 100 year ages span. It's kinda an unfair comparison unless you multiply the number of great modern thinkers by 50 to represent the amount of time old and ancient thinkers had to work over problems.
Also, back then, a man could be a thinker and do nothing bu think. We still have thinkers today, but they need to think about things important to the rest of us or they'll be out of a job.
Last but not least ... the fall of the Roman empire lost vast amounts of ancient knowledge ... forcing us to basically start all over. And with the coming of the Dark Ages, we basically would wait until the 17th century to start being thinker again ... trying to regain 5000 years of prior knowledge in 4 years and then go beyond what was already known.
Technology today is mostly given to the needs of the current man, which is why much of what the ancients knew will forever be a mystery.
Can we build the Great Pyramid today like they did back then? Using the same methods and tools? Almost certainly not - that knowledge is lost. Scholars still debate over how it was done.
But could we build one with modern machinery? I hear many people say no, but the truth is yes - we could - but not in the way the ancients did it.
I don't know why modern men continue to believe we couldn't build an exact replica of the Great Pyramid today. IT's not that we can't, it's that we can't do so in precisely the same way *they* did it.
We have machines that can lift and place 20,000 lb blocks. We also have machines that can help us create perfect blocks that would fit together with perfect seams, like the ancients did.
What we can't do is build it exactly like the ancients did - using the same tools,technology, and ideas they had available back then - as that knowledge has been lost.
Could we get it back? Probably, with a lot of research, but why would we relearn how to do it the ancient way when we could do it the modern way? This is part of the reason such technologies remain a mystery, as they are questioned by archeologists and are of no interest to actual engineers who could actually spend years resolving how it was done.
Ancient man knew a lot, but he was on the Earth much longer than we have been during the modern age (after the Dark Ages). As such, he had plenty of time to learn more ... and now we are learning it all over again.
Time after time we keep unearthing items that resemble modern things we thought we had invented only in our own time. What's amazing is we have relearned a lot in a short period of time.I guess it depends on what you consider important and spend our time accordingly.Ancient man was more in touch with the universe and build with it we are still unable to explain how so many things were done so long ago.
Now days man has lots his patience , he wants everything too fast, he is not ready to go to such pains of planning and execution.
Where the pyramids is concerned certain ducts point to the constellation of the seven sisters as they believed that would be where their soul goes after death.They build everything with concern for the spirit.
We dont do that now days.
So the ancient man was not inept and unintelligent but were very inept and intelligent.
- Justine76posted 14 years ago0
- Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago0
Thank you for proving me previous statement.
Good day to you.Thank you for proving the shallowness of religion and the futility of its arguments based on twisted facts and omissions. Can't imagine why there's such a growing backlash against it. Someone gives YOU the truth and you cry foul and leave that's real argument.
@getitrite, this has to be one of the best comments I've read in these forums. you didn't write a thesis and you didn't attack anyone and you stated a fact.
and paradise7 mentioned parents no longer teaching their children and expecting the schools to do it which they can't because of the constant behavior problems starting in preschool.
many parents have abandoned their responsibilities of teaching and training their children, and kids are growing up with less and less training in the most basic skills. look how many times, even in this forum, you have people asking questions of how to do something. they didn't read the HP guidelines or forum threads that already answer their questions. there's a thread today by a woman who asked the very same question yesterday and received very helpful answers, now she's back with the very same problem wanting others to fix it for her.
- Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago0
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years ago0
Hey Mark, scientist?
(I'll do my best to ignore the ranting and stick with your arguments, if any)
It's been long time, but again you missed the point if evolution were true the languages would be in reverse : English slang first than up to the more complex. To show me a building built recently again shows you missing the point. "No believes in Jesus anymore?" Still holding on to that atheistic dogma eh,? You do know Jesus was real right? You must've forgot about the more 2.1 billion Christians all over the world and hundreds of historians that attest to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I know you tend to stand by your faith despite evidence to the contrary. If you’re really smart, why can't you answer questions regarding your religion of evolutionary atheism. I've watched you and others dip and dodge questions all over this forum. Is that the smart thing to do? I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.LOL
Evolution is true. It is adaptation to change. Simple as that. The vocabulary is changing to meet the needs of a new generation (the part you are complaining about) that requires short sharp 20 second bursts instead of the "old way" of communicating.
As you your ridiculous attack on evolution disguised as a sensible statement. LOLOLOLOLOL
Pity you cannot live up to the name you give yourself.
A little truth would go a long way to persuading people you are not just another lying religionist out to push his irrational beliefs.
Great McDonalds argument though. "2.1 billion people eat this crap so you should too."
And I thought that was what you were complaining about.I don't expect you believe as me I would just like you to get your fact straight, but you wont. I have no problem with variations, genetic recombination, adaptations, transduction, mutations, transformation, vital enzyme exchange through plasmids, conjugation within a kind, it’s biblical and a proven fact, but when you Darwinist try to take leap of faith with “Give it enough time you turn anything to anything look at these bones” that where it stops being science and becomes a pseudoscientific religion. and you can't even tell how it all began and where the information came from. I‘ll stick with God and His word. Still waiting....
I see you are on about your typical pile!
Oh faith! What a magical word.
You must've forgot about the more 2.1 billion Christians all over the world and hundreds of historians that attest to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
2.1 billion people have witnessed with their own eyes. It must be a fact! Faith has nothing to do with it. Why facts when we have faith?
I mean, faith, after all says that we must believe no matter how many liars there are in the world.
How can 2.1 billion people be lying about the same thing? They all saw it. They all have faith that it happened. They all have been called to witness and remarkably they all have read the same book with the same lie and thus it must be the bible is the truth, the way and the word of god.
It all makes sense now. Come on Earnest, jump on the wagon of faith. Lettuce be lumps! Lumps for all!!! Evolution. Hogwash! Evolution is just something that only the dumb people chose to 'believe' because they don't understand the truth about life.
They just don't understand how to believe. They don't understand faith and they don't understand why God needs you to believe. That is why the unbelievers burn in Hell for all eternity.
Didn't you know. Your purpose in life is to have faith in Jesus Christ because he came and died for your sins. So I can do whatever I want with good conscience because I am a believer therefor Jesus Christ, through faith in what I have never seen, which doesn't require proof only faith... then I am saved.
Oh praise the lord all mighty for taking my sins and accepting me into his kingdom of heaven so that I can have everlasting life away from the liars, the thieves, the rapist, the murderers etc...
praise it be the lord!!!!you go!!!! god rawks!!
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago0
You rang
You didn't give any counter points to the facts, just silly ranting. If you had a counter point we would have debate, but when you have go to name calling, ridicule, bible mocking. I don’t have the time and you really have no point. Sorry
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
ha ha.
lets make up a metric language...
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
You are a liar.
Slavery. Segregation. American Indians wiped out. All good family values?
LOLOLOLOLOL
You are just another religionist attempting to defend your ridiculous beliefs. Any way you can, and attacking evolution is one of them.
Sorry your ridiculous beliefs are now being ridiculed. As I always say - "If you do not want your beliefs to be laughed at - you should not have such funny beliefs."It's not evolution that has problems so much as it is Darwinism. Ask anyone in the field if they believe in evolution and you will see a huge show of hands then ask if they also believe in Darwinism and the number of hands will drop quickly.
So, if the scientists aren't buying Darwinism then why do the religionists keep using it as a place to drive a spike into evolution?
Evolutionary facts:
Life started out simple ...
Life became more complex over millions of years ...
Now ... either simpler life evolved into more complex life, or more complex life spontaneously appeared after the inception of simpler life forms
It's not natural selection .. it's not chimps undressing and becoming humans ... it's a precession of simpler organisms appearing before more complex ones and we all would be fools not to ignore that fact.
I've answered every evolution question presented to me to the best of my ability and admitted to when I could go no further, and yet, I haven't asked for a single gram of proof for God.
So, it's the creationists turn to answer a few questions ... After all, you say evolutionists never answer yours, let's see how you answer some of theirs:
1. We know the story of Genesis. How was this story originally recorded? Did Adam write down the facts? Did Eve? Where is the original parchment?
I know who wrote Genesis - tell me how the story was given to him. If it was by word of mouth, then why should we trust it?
2. Who was with this man when he was told the story of Genesis? (and I mean directly beside him, verifying what was being said)
3. Why hadn't such an important story been written before? Remember, written languages predates the author.
4. Who recorded the story of Noah's Ark?
5. How do we know what happened before Noah's Ark if only Noah and his family survived? Did he keep written records? Were are they?
6. How much of the Bible relates to events before Noah's Ark? How did Noah and his family pass on all of this knowledge?
7. Where is the Ark of the Covenant? Why is it kept hidden?
8. If the Jews were the chosen ones, why did they turn their back on Jesus?
9. Why did Pontius Pilate have Jesus crucified? (I don't want to know the crime he committed, I want the political reason)
10. Was Moses of Jewish birth? (a trick question) If not, why did God pick him to lead his people (the Jews) out of Egypt
You say evolutionists always dodge every question, so let's see how questions are fielded from the other side of the fence.
For every one you get wrong or can't give a good answer for you will not lose a point ... You will just be faced with the same dilemma evolutionists are, which is you can only explain things given the facts you have so far uncovered.
And no ... failure to be able to answer any or all question does not disrepute God or the Bible, it just shows that we as a species don't know everything, which is why we can't discount things because someone else can't prove it in its entirety.
When you are humbled by that we can get back to the real discussion at hand ... what to do to improve the education our children are receiving in public schools.
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
I won't debate evolution in schools, as that's not the topic at hand. The issues presented by Thetruthhurts *do* have some merit and are definitely worthy of debate.
The English language: The problem with english isn't that it's an evolutionary throwback - it's a hodgepodge
Allow me to explain ...
American English is founded upon many other languages. As immigrants poured into America they kept many of the words they were familiar with and they were incorporated into American English, along with their grammar rules and spellings. As such, American English feels all wrong - even to those who speak it regularly.
Is our language a devolving in evolution? I could argue it's the opposite, but I want to stay focused here. Fact is, it's a language comprised of many words, sayings, and ideas from many different cultures, which is why it's been adopted by many different countries as a second language. Almost any nationality can find some familiar words in American English, which is why it's so readily adopted. And one world language would be evolution ... not devolution ... as it would allow everyone to communicate easier.
Still, American English is a mess, and I certainly won't disagree with you on that!
Our education system is a mess as well - which is another point I will agree with you on. While our colleges and universities excel (proven by the many who arrive here from abroad to gain an education they can't find in their own countries) our elementary, middle schools, and high schools are grossly inadequate for the times.
The problem is that we went from a largely agricultural society to a largely manufacturing society ... and then forgot to shift gears into an informational society (in schools, that is).
Our basic schools are still pumping out factory workers when factories are disappearing in America, and this needs to stop! We need to churn out students who are up on technology and services ... as these are now the only areas in which the United States can compete competently in today's global market.
We don't need more steel workers or textile workers in America, we need more scientists, more health care workers, etc.
Other countries, such as Japan, have already made the switch and are reaping the bounties. We just lag behind because the heart of America is always slow to change.
And, sad to say, a loss of religious identity also plays a role in America's decline, but not the role reported here in this thread.
Allow me a chance to explain ...
Yes, many of us see religion as mindless sheep being led around, but we also must recognize that religion bestows good values ... 'though shalt not kill', 'be kind to others', 'expect not and ye shall receive'. These are core fundamental beliefs needed to keep a society together, regardless of how they are received.
With both parents working hard nowadays and placing their children in daycares, children aren't receiving these values anymore, and then we look in shock at the atrocities that occur. It's a loss of morals and values that has seeded ugliness in America, and many other countries.
I'm not saying we should plug our children into religious cults that breed them into mindless servants ... what I am saying that we need to take our children where they will learn good values - and we can reinforce our own.
One hour a week at the local church never created a mindless zombie out of anyone. We give religion far too much credit when we state how it leads us not to think ... As anything, in moderation it's good for us.
Where religion can become counterproductive is when we stop seeing the Bible as a guide for good living, and instead, see it as a manifesto of how everyone around us must behave.
I'll tell a story that I think might help everyone understand how I can believe religion is a good thing, and how forcing the word can be a bad thing.
Jacob is a farmer in Idaho ... a very pious man ... he wakes up every morning and prays to God for a good harvest and for the good health of his neighbors - and then goes off to work his fields all day long. Every year his family is fed by the grace of God with a plentiful harvest, and he shares the excess with his neighbors, caring not for their beliefs - as they are human beings too, and just as deserving of sharing his bounty.
Zachariah is another farmer. He is a pious man as well, but he is not of the same stock of Jacob. He sees the farmers around him as wicked men who reap what they sow. He even looks down on Jacob - as he sees it unfit to share a harvest with those who don't pray to God daily.
Each morning, Zachariah prays to God and then goes to work in the fields. He sees his fellow farmers coming out of their houses and refusing to say their prayers so he stops his work to admonish them. He even goes to other fields to show others how they are farming all wrong ... spending most of his morning shaming his neighbors.
Midday he stops work and offers a two hour solstice to God, extolling on how he is so angry with his neighbors for not believing like he did. He swears to God that he will never ignore the impure as Jacob has and resolves he will testify to his neighbors until they hear him and rejoice in the word.
He then returns to his fields, stopping periodically to sneer at the evil ways of his neighbors, all the while promising God he will always be the better man.
Night falls, and Zachariah returns to his house to read the Bible and then go to bed. He continues this process, until harvest time, at which point he finds himself with barely enough to eat for the winter ... but thanks God for the harvest and realizes he is being punished for not doing better at spreading God's word.
Jacob stops by to offer some extra food, but Zacchariah rejects the offer, as it did not come from God.
Then ... one day ... a tornado arrives, killing both Jacob and Zacchariah. There, standing before St. Peter, Zacchariah watches Jacob pass through the gates and is offended. 'Why let a heathen like that through?' he asks.
St. peter replies, 'Because he spread God's message'
Zaccariah recounts all the daily sermons he gave and how much he endured to be God's servant and St. Peter interrupts him to say 'And you were repaid for your deeds. God gave you just enough of a harvest to survive.'
'So why did Jacob always get a better harvest?' Zaccariah asked.
St. Peter placed his hand upon the man's shoulder, 'Because he knew Jacob would understand what to do with that which was left over. Had you been a pious man, you would have understood as well ... the word of God is there to help others, not judge them ... for you can't reap a bountiful crop by constantly minding another man's field.'
That's a story I live by, and one that I feel explains the true meaning of Christianity. It's not about improving other people, it's about holding yourself accountable by setting a good example.
Going back to education ... this applies to our children as well. By reading more books and encouraging our children to read, we help stop the cycle of illiteracy.
By taking the time to help our children with their homework, rather than insist it's schoolwork, we help them get a better grasp on mathematics.
By sharing our harvest, we allow our children to grow. It serves nothing to mind over other people's children and how far they have fell behind ... the question is .. how have you done with your own harvest?
If everyone tended to their own field, we would find ourselves with a surplus ... and that's what America needs to become a strong country again.
And yes ... there is one facet where we are devolving ... it's ethically ... as society seeks to blame everyone else for their woes, accepting none of the blame for themselves. So many of us have grown selfish, looking hard to find the worse example to make ourselves look better ... look inward ... improve your own harvest and the excess will seed a thousand more bountiful fields!
As for evolution, as we seem to want to lead back there again ... ask yourself this. Does the existence or denial of evolution change or negate our existence? Need it change or dny our beliefs?
To debate evolution is like debating whether dolphins are sentient creatures. We have a lot of facts that seem to conclusively prove it's true, but unless we can put a dolphin brain inside our own we can never be 100% sure - and the absolute answer would not change anything. Truth or lie ... we would still all wake up human tomorrow.
So, if we could, let's keep the debate logical and keep evolution out of it ... it's 1% of the 12 year school curriculum (if that), and certainly not the cause of our current decline.
Facts are facts ... our lower education system is a debacle and we need to do more - inside schools and outside of schools - to fix this mess up.- lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago0:
a closed mind atrophies for lack of use.
the key to learning is curiosity, asking questions, being so thirsty that the cup is never filled. where you put your focus is what you see. it is amazing what is available to learn and how more and more is being discovered each and every day about our world, our past, our possible future. there is an excellent series on PBS that started last week about Evolution on the Nova series. look it up, you can still watch it online. I often wonder at those who dispute it when evidence is found to support it?
it's o.k. to open your mind and learn, that's one of its functions.- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sorry - that is all your garbage is worth.
Tell me how old Noah was again? And the proof? Oh yeah - the bible..............
I taught my child at home and did not hold him back.
I did not have to teach him down at the level of the
"ding bats in the room"
When he was old enough for "high school", he asked if he could go to the local public high school to see what it was like and what he'd been missing.
I recall about 1 week into his "adventure", he came home and exclaimed,
"no offense dad, but the overwhelming majority of these kids are stupid idiots and have the mental capacity and intelligence of someone who is 10, and the students treat the teachers in a very disrespectful manner, they are rude, disruptive, arrogant and on top of that, clueless!!
I wanted to knock a few of them up side the head and see if anything came flying out"
He soon realized he was wasting his time and asked if he could go to the classes for the 18 year old students and see if he could get a challenge.
Of course the "people in charge" said no and he left the school.- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
Actually there is an awful lot of concrete evidence for evolution and no one really questions it as happening except these guys.
Bu I agree - religionists making fun of people believing in something because of "faith" is pretty ironic.
Even though it is not true.L
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- Denno66posted 14 years ago0
- L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago0
- TMinutposted 14 years ago0
- sandra rinckposted 14 years ago0
Yoshi was saying that the ancients were extremely intelligent. It is debatable how they built such wonders like the pyramids but we could replicate them. I would go as far to say that we can't do it like them because well... we are too damn lazy now.
Those pyramids took hundreds of years to build. They would start them during one generation and pass it down to the next so you got your grandpa, kids, grandkids working on the same thing.
Today, because we can do it in little time, a couple years or way less, what would be the point in spending many lifetimes to build something?
I would tend to agree that today we want it now, patients last as long as your pocket book can afford it too but I you are right when it comes to their spirit and their connections to the Universe.
They did do things according to the heavens. They lived their lives according to the stars. Today, most don't know a simple constellation. They still think that that the North star is actually a star in the north and that stars never move...
So who is blaming who? Does religion blame science for trying to educate the kids about 'real' things and the 'facts' including things that our ancestors already knew because it was just as important to them as it 'should' be to us today.
Does science blame religion for the lack of understanding the importance of the Universe and how life works... mind you the question is not why it works, just how.
Each side points the finger, "Our kids are dumb because of you." Yet one side keeps saying and has been saying for as long as it has been an issue... Science is just for the facts, leave religion out of it.
And it does seem as though religions (because of ignorance) are trying very hard to obscure things which in my opinion causes our kids to become less spiritual overall and less inclined to care about our place in the Universe.
Seems to me that a certain type of religious person cares nothing about the spiritual consequences of their actions because they have lost touch with reality and they preach all hell and blasphemy and punishment to anyone who says, "No sir, look around you. I most certainly want to know that that great bright looking star out there in not the North star, it is not even a star!"
All the while (because I know this is a fact from being a witness to how it works) some innocently ignorant human believes they will be okay if they just follow that star because they have been fed all sorts of bs about navigating using the stars... they don't even know what star they are looking at!!!!!
So are we really dumber? No, we are not dumber. The information, the knowledge is there to be learned. Why aren't they learning is the question.
You know what, I know why! Because information is being withheld from them. Too busy buying debt, too busy preaching lies, too busy with what "YOU" want and not paying enough attention to them. That is why. And we will leave the next generation scrambling for their survival because sometime in the future, technology will have its downfall.
There will be a time when technology will become obsolete and they will have to depend on nature again to survive. Concerning this and only this, has man become dumber.
Let them learn you friggin' d***heads!
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