How dumb is that?

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  1. profile image0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years ago

    It easy to say they ancient men were inept and unintelligent, but it's rather impossible to prove it. When you think about the first languages Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew and others Asian languages are the most complex languages known to man. The above average adult couldn’t learn them. Languages along with the human race are in a downward spiral in education, language, and health. Our languages are getting are dumber and our bodies are getting sicker. The Texas new history books are up for revision they have eliminated; George Washington, Paul Revere, Mother Theresa, and Ronald Regan, BUT they are adding Oprah Steve Jobs and the Dell Computers guy. It’s no wonder we are getting dumber. Since the indoctrination of evolution in our schools test scores are at an all time low. We are being taught what to think not how to think.

    English is hard language to learn for most people not because it’s too hard, but it’s too simple

    For example:

    I went out last night with a knight.

    How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

    The insurance was invalid for the invalid.

    Since there was no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.

    The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.

    If you have the time look up these same sentences in Greek or Chinese you’ll see what I mean.

    If we came from dumber humans and are getting smarter English would have been the first language not the last.

    The structures built by ancient man and women are still wonders today and have stood for thousands of years. Will any building we make now last that long? Does anyone else notice the dummying down of America and beyond?

    1. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Speak for yourself sweetheart. I speak 3 languages fluently and 2 more adequately. I am constantly amazed at the wonders of evolutionary biology and the knowledge we gain almost daily from new experiments and exploration.

      You demonstrating your incredible ignorance and lack of education is not persuading me of anything the than your inability to understand complex processes that contradict your pathetic belief system.

      And as I always say, "You can do an awful lot with an endless supply of cheap labor."

      And where is all the slave labor?

      Do you honestly think dumbing the education system down to "a invisible super being dun it - praize be to jeebus! " is going to help educate your children?  I think you will find the general level of education is higher than it was 200 years ago. lol

      The truth? Religionists are fools skeered no one beleebs in jeebus any more. If you really want to increase the level of education - bleating about proven scientific facts being taught in school is not really helping your case.  lol

      Sorry you are too ignorant to understand the incredibly complex processes that go into you being able to communicate instantaneously with some one 6000 miles away and think "test scores" are the measure of civilization's level of understanding.

      Admittedly, the level of education in your country could be an awful lot higher - pity you do not understand that it is in the government inc's interests to keep it that way. As it was when the churches held the power wink

      1. Stimp profile image59
        Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Wow!!  I didn't see this underlying message in any of the original post. Annnnyyyy  whoooooo  smile

        1. Evolution Guy profile image59
          Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That is because "thetruthhurts is a big fan of covering up what it really means to say with what appears to be reasonable statements. This is what religionists (politicians) do. wink

          1. Stimp profile image59
            Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh  smile  (I'm just a smarty...that's all, I mean no harm, friend.)

      2. Make  Money profile image66
        Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Is this the tower of Babel? lol

        1. Stimp profile image59
          Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No it's the Tower of Blah Blah Blah.  Come on, Man, study your facts wink

        2. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Is that what you want it to be?

          What progress has been made spiritually over the last 2000 years? 

          I have a question.

          Where did faith come from?

          1. earnestshub profile image81
            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Fear of death.

            1. profile image0
              L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Fear of the Unknown.

          2. Cagsil profile image70
            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            From religion

    2. spiderpam profile image75
      spiderpamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You're back! They unbanned you! lol How does it feel? lol

      1. profile image0
        thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I tell ya in a week. big_smile

    3. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The introduction of evolution has nothing to do with students becoming dumber.  That is a lame sentence.

      If anything it has to do with the "adults" (if you can call them that) being so stubborn and self centered, their need to keep their lifestyle where it is, their need to control, their fear of real knowledge being a crushing blow to religion and politics.

      As for you assumption that English is too easy... English is the most difficult language to understand because of word usage and same spellings etc...

      As a matter of fact, learning the English language broadens your understanding and ability to understand other languages better.

      For instance.  While I am not fluent in any language but English.  I am able to understand Tagalog, French and Spanish because I understand how the languages work. 

      You probably don't even know what the three languages have in common.

      1. profile image0
        thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Let me guess you're an atheist, who believes evolution and have never doubted or questioned it, you hate the bible, and religion, but you’re here. Check the stats since evolution was first introduced test scores have fallen dramatically. Your spill about the languages is actually a point from me. English, French, Spanish are very familiar in many ways and are easier to learn. Which is the opposite of evolution.

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And there you go..

          So because you cannot understand it, you think it is dumb? 
          Basically, what I see you saying here is, " I don't want to take the time to understand it and learn, it is much easier to believe in Jesus Christ and everything will be okay.  Evolution makes kids stupid because it is too hard to understand."

          Therefore you have not given enough credit to the kids for being able to understand it because you pollute their minds with religious rhetoric that makes them unable to conjugate.

          The poor kids are not stupid but YOU do very well in calling them stupid when stupidity lies in the face of understanding, knowledge, education, wisdom and fact.

          Leave God out of the equation and the kids can just learn the facts.  Whatever they need spiritually is a different matter.

          1. profile image0
            thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I know more about evolution than you'll ever know. That's why know it's a lie. Are you an expert? If so I have  lots of questions for you. You game?

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Can you play without being a poor sport? Can you just stick to the facts?

              1. profile image0
                thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yes Maam.

    4. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You know something, but what you know is knowledge of misunderstanding, because your perception of life is skewed by your religious belief.

      How you came up with your stats? Who cares.

      Are your stats factual? Not likely.

      Is your attitude in serious need of change? Certainly!

      Do you have a probem? Yes, you most certainly do.

      How ever, your problem is unknown to you, because you can't see it, because your vision is cloudy by your own uncertainty about your own existence.

      The FACT that evolution is science and has NOT been dismissed is getting old. If YOU WANT PROOF of Evolution- LOOK IN THE MIRROR!

      You are walking proof that evolution happens. If you can't see that, then I can evaluate your actions as OLD altruistic ideas, which are centuries of worthless abuse mankind.

      You, perpetuate the illusion of knowledge and understanding, through your belief in a 'god', who runs your life.

      That is a LIE and severely damages society's steps forward.

      Realize- ALL religions are or have ONE "Core" understanding- to be One with Oneself. To obtain or attain "Enlightenment", in translation - Enlightenment isn't spirituality of the mystical order, but to Consciousness.

      Consciousness, does more than make you aware of your life- it also works in conjuction with your mind and conscience, and sub-conscious, so you can live honestly and very long.

      The spirituality of seeking 'perfection' in a 'higher' power is simply conjecture based on the fact that we are humans and we know we are going to make mistakes, which always remind us that we are not perfect.

      To seek a higher power for guidance voids the use of your own consciousness, conscience and sub-conscious. And, if you're going to neglect those- then you're not living your life for yourself and you have no real understanding of your life.

      Please- Keep it real.

      As for your questions from ancient times? I'll answer next post.

      1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
        prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I like you CAGSIL< long post always you make me dizzy, jk only

      2. profile image0
        thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Please don't waste your time, mystic. You've taken that evolutionary pill whole. I look in the mirror I see a sinner saved by grace, A child of God. If you see a monkey seek help!

        1. Cagsil profile image70
          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You're the funniest person on the whole damn planet.

          You're calling ME a 'mystic'? You're the idiot who has a belief in the unknown.

          I live my life by what is based on facts, knowledge and true understanding of life.

          And, if you had half-a-brain, then you would have realized that you've entered into a conversation with someone who apparently has vastly more knowledge than you or at least someone who has a better understanding of life, than yourself.

          WOW! You're ignorant.

          1. Evolution Guy profile image59
            Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            How is that "explaining what the bible really means" going for ya? lol

            Sad to say - There is only one recourse.sad

            Give them what they are asking for. Ridicule and "unwarranted persecution."

            1. Cagsil profile image70
              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Well, I've recently been going thru some of my research and noticed a great concept, which is the basis for religion and is perpetuated as a system of control.

              The CORE of all religions and occult disciplines are to REACH the stage of Enlightenment.

              Enlightenment is a word, which is purposely used to mislead others into thinking about "GOD" or the mystical realm outside objective reality.

              As an altruistic idea - it was and have been perpetuated, so those who are in power and have wealth, can manipulate those who don't know any better.

              True "Enlightenment" as it is to be understood translates to CONSCIOUSNESS, to be one with oneself, honest in thought, honest in action, honest in intentions and honest with other people.

      3. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        The English language is the MOST complex Language in existence. It has more words than any language ever developed. It poses an obstacle for those of other Nations.

        To say English(America's English, not Britian English) is not complex- you've obviously don't have a clue.

        I can only conclude that you want explanations of each statement.

        The above is a woman, making a statement about a man she spent the night with, and it's obvious that he was a gentleman of the highest caliber.

        This one- Is about a person sharing a closely held secret and question themselves about how to go about sharing whatever it is that they want.

        This one- One who doesn't take risks in their life, needs no insurance, therefore to purchase or buy an insurance policy would have no validity.

        This one- only describes spontaneous actions.

        This one- apparently the soldier was eating and he had no room for the dessert, which was given to him. In other words, he/she was full, satiated and didn't want the dessert.

        If you plan on telling me I'm wrong. SAVE your breath.

        Your individual interpretation is of no value, since we know your knowledge and understanding of life is skewed by your religious beliefs, which are based on no facts, but assumptions.

        Thanks for playing.

    5. profile image0
      L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I study ancient Greece, Ionia, Persia and Italy. I can say that they were remarkably clever people.

      We are nothing in comparrison.

      Socrates vs Hume

      Cicero vs Gordon Brown

      Darius vs Obama

      Aristophanes vs Pinter

      The ancients win every time.

    6. mohitmisra profile image60
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you and we have the language of Sanskrit which has so much details or just take a simple example in Hindi, there is tum and aap , tum is for someone your own age and aap is for someone elderly while in English it doesn't exist its just you.
      The musical notes are twice the number in Sanskrit than one has in English, much more depth.

      Earlier man would think on grand scales and for hundreds of years and they were superb architects and mathematicians.

      The Taj Mahal is build on certain wood pillars at a turn in the river.This ensures the wood remains wet, when dry the wood has a life span of four hundred year and when wet it doubles to eight hundred.

      Then the ancient South Americans build with the movement of the sun and equinoxes in mind with such precision its is simply awesome. smile

      1. yoshi97 profile image57
        yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        But let us not forget ... early man had thousands of years to ponder and figure things out. The great minds of modern history only existed over about a 100 year ages span. It's kinda an unfair comparison unless you multiply the number of great modern thinkers by 50 to represent the amount of time old and ancient thinkers had to work over problems.

        Also, back then, a man could be a thinker and do nothing bu think. We still have thinkers today, but they need to think about things important to the rest of us or they'll be out of a job.

        Last but not least ... the fall of the Roman empire lost vast amounts of ancient knowledge ... forcing us to basically start all over. And with the coming of the Dark Ages, we basically would wait until the 17th century to start being thinker again ... trying to regain 5000 years of prior knowledge in 4  years and then go beyond what was already known.

        Technology today is mostly given to the needs of the current man, which is why much of what the ancients knew will forever be a mystery.

        Can we build the Great Pyramid today like they did back then? Using the same methods and tools? Almost certainly not - that knowledge is lost. Scholars still debate over how it was done.

        But could we build one with modern machinery? I hear many people say no, but the truth is yes - we could - but not in the way the ancients did it.

        I don't know why modern men continue to believe we couldn't build an exact replica of the Great Pyramid today. IT's not that we can't, it's that we can't do so in precisely the same way *they* did it.

        We have machines that can lift and place 20,000 lb blocks. We also have machines that can help us create perfect blocks that would fit together with perfect seams, like the ancients did.

        What we can't do is build it exactly like the ancients did - using the same tools,technology, and ideas they had available back then - as that knowledge has been lost.

        Could we get it back? Probably, with a lot of research, but why would we relearn how to do it the ancient way when we could do it the modern way? This is part of the reason such technologies remain a mystery, as they are questioned by archeologists and are of no interest to actual engineers who could actually spend years resolving how it was done.

        Ancient man knew a lot, but he was on the Earth much longer than we have been during the modern age (after the Dark Ages). As such, he had plenty of time to learn more ... and now we are learning it all over again.

        Time after time we keep unearthing items that resemble modern things we thought we had invented only in our own time. What's amazing is we have relearned a lot in a short period of time. smile

        1. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I guess it depends on what you consider important and spend our time accordingly.Ancient man was more in touch with the universe and build with it we are still unable to explain how so many things were done so long ago.

          Now days man has lots his patience , he wants everything too fast, he is not ready to go to such pains of planning and execution.

          Where the pyramids is concerned certain ducts point to the constellation of the seven sisters as they believed that would be where their soul goes after death.They build everything with concern for the spirit. smile
          We dont do that now days. smile

          So the ancient man was not inept and unintelligent but were very inept and intelligent. smile

          1. prettydarkhorse profile image57
            prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            you know why, because people from the ancient times cant explain things we can explain now, and everytime they see an unsual thing they regard this as a work of spirit or supernatural thing, it is easy to do that then to bang your head and find solution or reason

    7. profile image0
      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      disgraceful. where did you hear that?

  2. profile image0
    Justine76posted 14 years ago

    huh?  just kidding.
    my husband and I were justt talking about how it seems we have lost alot of knowledge thru the centuries.

  3. profile image0
    Poppa Bluesposted 14 years ago

    I have a song called "The Truth Hurts" in my hub, that illustrates our stupidity, but I don't think it's any more or less so than you are contending.

    Education is a problem especially here in the USA. Personally I think it's because the people rely on the government to provide education, and as we all know, the government is remarkably inept at pretty much everything they do!

    1. Paradise7 profile image70
      Paradise7posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Poppa Blues says it again.

      Our education system is a disgrace here in the US.  Not because of the teachers, either.  Not really because of the schools and facilities offered.  But, because the PARENTS leave it up to the schools to teach the kids EVERYTHING.

      Starting out your child by challenging his/her developing mind can give your child so much of a boost.

      I read an article that states a typical urban child in America ceases to be intellectually challenged by the age of 3, and the child's mind turns off.

      You have to use your brains to grow them.

    2. Seriina profile image61
      Seriinaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. Education IS the problem. or lack there about taking gym out of the school systems in the lovely state of Ohio?? Whats up with that! sad

  4. Brian Leighton profile image57
    Brian Leightonposted 14 years ago

    With the advent of Modern Technology, the world has definately become a smaller place to live in. Boundries (Language, Country etc.) that existed before are no longer a problem for anyone who seeks to embrace new knowledge.

    I believe that learning starts in the home and it is modern day parents responsibility to ensure that the seeds of learning are placed in their children before they start education.

    Great architectural feats of the past were constructed with primative materials and an abundence of free or cheap labor with little or no regard for human life during construction phases. In more modern times we have rules and regulations that specify which materials can be used in construction with a view to design appropriateness, energy conservation and of course health and safety for all those that are involved in the actual construction itself.

    1. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess you haven't seen construction sites in the Gulf States? Lots of fatalities, no shortage of slave labour, not a lot of health and safety.

      1. Brian Leighton profile image57
        Brian Leightonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Actually no, I haven't seen construction sites in the Gulf States, but then again in the context of my reply they do not bear relevance as more than likely they are not constructing modern feats of architecture that will last thousands of years.

  5. getitrite profile image72
    getitriteposted 14 years ago

    You stated, "Since the indoctrination of evolution in our schools test scores are at an all time low. We are being taught what to think not how to think."

    What evidence do you have that the reason test scores have dropped is due to the introduction of evolution?  Science attempts to teach people how to think, religion teaches people what to think. 

    My religion taught me to believe that a reptile, cleverly disguised as the devil, talked to a woman.  Science taught me that this is not possible.  Science taught me that reptiles don't talk.

    1. profile image0
      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Evolution was first taught in schools around 1963, since then test scores dropped and kids became more violent. School shooting has been directly connected to evolutionary thinking Kip Kinkle(school shooter) stated "That jock isn't worth the jaw evolution gave him. Look for his jaw it won't be on his body" as he gun down several on his fellow students. The columbine shooters wore t-shirts under their trench coats that read "Natural selection". It doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. You find it hard to believe the bible, but you’re willing to believe 0+0=1. Brilliant!

      1. profile image0
        Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        And here I thought Columbine was the tragic tale of two deranged outcasts bent on revenge towards a perceived persecution by popular students and an non-understanding society. Further enabled by irresponsible and clueless parents with no moral accountability allowing their sons to amass a horde of illegal weapons under their very noses. Now I find out it was a plot to further the spread of Darwin's theory of evolution. I am shocked, how could I not have picked up on this extraordinary leap and misinterpretation of factual evidence and eyewitness testimony. This must be part of some secular plot to overthrow the church, next thing you know they'll be framing priests for molestation and embezzlement.

        1. profile image0
          thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Ok, Is there a point in there?.... I didn't think so.

          1. profile image0
            Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah the point is it takes a really twisted individual to take something like Columbine and blame it on evolution, and then try and bend the facts to support that. What a scary paranoid world you must live in, enemies everywhere. get a grip man.

            1. profile image0
              thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Don't take my word for it, do the reaserach. It's all there if you're willing to open your eyes.

        2. profile image0
          Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          lol lol
          oops, sorry, evolution made me do it..

      2. getitrite profile image72
        getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Your bible is still absurd even if I think 0+0=1.  Snakes still don't talk. Burning bushes still don't talk.  A man still can't live in the belly of a fish.  Jesus is still dead!  What, exactly, is so illogical about MY thinking?  If you are trying to persuade me away from evolution, I am open to any logical alternative, but your alternative is foolish nonsense.

        BTW, Jim Jones and David Koresh make Columbine look like a picnic.

        1. profile image0
          thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          A miracle only seems like foolishness only to the person who doesn't believe in God, but to say there is no God without a doubt requires faith in atheism. How can you say what Jim Jones and David Koresh did was wrong? Where do you get that from?

          1. profile image0
            Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You really are unbalanced to a spectacular degree aren't you? Do you hear the voices too?

            1. profile image0
              thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Ridicule is not an argument it just shows lack. Unless you have a point move on.

              1. profile image0
                Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                what are you going to do call God on me. You need to be ridiculed your statements are grossly ridiculous and absurd at best. Your posts are filled paranoia, and fantasy, you've obviously lost your grip with reality and sanity, and need to accept some truth yourself. There's nothing to your claims but the inane ramblings of a crazy person.

                1. profile image0
                  thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you for proving me previous statement. lol Good day to you.

                  1. profile image0
                    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you for proving the shallowness of religion and the futility of its arguments based on twisted facts and omissions. Can't imagine why there's such a growing backlash against it. Someone gives YOU the truth and you cry foul and leave that's real argument. sad

          2. getitrite profile image72
            getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            So go ahead and drink the kool-aid, my friend.  I prefer to use my mental faculties for my survival. 

            Where did you get your info about Columbine and Kip Kinkle?  Probably the same source I did.

    2. rebekahELLE profile image86
      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      @getitrite, this has to be one of the best comments I've read in these forums. you didn't write a thesis and you didn't attack anyone and you stated a fact.

      and paradise7 mentioned parents no longer teaching their children and expecting the schools to do it which they can't because of the constant behavior problems starting in preschool.

      many parents have abandoned their responsibilities of teaching and training their children, and kids are growing up with less and less training in the most basic skills.  look how many times, even in this forum, you have people asking questions of how to do something. they didn't read the HP guidelines or forum threads that already answer their questions. there's a thread today by a woman who asked the very same question yesterday and received very helpful answers, now she's back with the very same problem wanting others to fix it for her.

      1. getitrite profile image72
        getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Thanks.  I try very hard to simplify things.  You are paying attention!

  6. profile image0
    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

    I think that standardized tests are a poor measuring stick for intelligence as all they record is a students ability to memorize a given stream of facts and data concerning a very specific group of subjects. I think what they illustrate is that students are not unintelligent, but uninterested. Henry Ford had very little formal education or book knowledge, but was known to be an extremely shrewd and clever man. When asked about his apparent lack of intelligence he is quoted as saying "Why should I waste my time memorizing books of useless facts when I have at my beck and call hundreds of men expert in those subjects." True knowledge is not the storage of facts but the ability to locate them when needed and use them when practical. I think its funny to hear older generations talk about the dumbing down of America while asking five year old kids to program their cell phones and DVD players for them. As children many of us did not have an internet or library at our fingertips and so were forced to memorize vast amounts of data, that honestly most of us no longer remember. Young people today have different priorities and interests. They don't care who the first president was when they're programing a computer that will run their whole life from a phone. It's not a lack of intelligence but a refocusing of it.

  7. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    QUOTE: I read an article that states a typical urban child in America ceases to be intellectually challenged by the age of 3, and the child's mind turns off.
    That sounds incredibly unlikely! For some, too many, perhaps but not 'typical'. Even little things make a small child think - should we have eggs or cereal? would you like to wear your black pants or your tan ones? that guy was in a bad mood, do you think someone was mean to him? Just trying to remember where he put his shoes when he didn't put them away where they belong makes him think.

    I do agree though, that little ones (everyone really) need to experience many situations to learn well. Same old, same old dulls a brain for sure.

  8. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    Scott, so very true, all of what you wrote.

  9. profile image0
    thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years ago

    Hey Mark, scientist? lol (I'll do my best to ignore the ranting and stick with your arguments, if any)

    It's been long time, but again you missed the point if evolution were true the languages would be in reverse : English slang first than up to the more complex. To show me a building built recently again shows you missing the point. "No believes in Jesus anymore?" Still holding on to that atheistic dogma eh,? You do know Jesus was real right? You must've forgot about the more 2.1 billion Christians all over the world and hundreds of historians that attest to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I know you tend to stand by your faith despite evidence to the contrary. If you’re really smart, why can't you answer questions regarding your religion of evolutionary atheism. I've watched you and others dip and dodge questions all over this forum. Is that the smart thing to do? I don’t have enough faith to be an atheist.

    1. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Evolution is true. It is adaptation to change. Simple as that. The vocabulary is changing to meet the needs of a new generation (the part you are complaining about) that requires short sharp 20 second bursts instead of the "old way" of communicating.

      As you your ridiculous attack on evolution disguised as a sensible statement. LOLOLOLOLOL

      Pity you cannot live up to the name you give yourself.

      A little truth would go a long way to persuading people you are not just another lying religionist out to push his irrational beliefs. wink

      Great McDonalds argument though. "2.1 billion people eat this crap so you should too." lol

      And I thought that was what you were complaining about. wink

      1. profile image0
        thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I don't expect you believe as me I would just like you to get your fact straight, but you wont. I have no problem with variations, genetic recombination, adaptations, transduction, mutations, transformation, vital enzyme exchange through plasmids, conjugation within a kind, it’s biblical and a proven fact, but when you Darwinist try to take leap of faith with “Give it enough time you turn anything to anything look at these bones” that where it stops being science and becomes a pseudoscientific religion. and  you can't even tell how it all began and where the information came from. I‘ll stick with God and His word. Still waiting.... lol

    2. earnestshub profile image81
      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I see you are on about your typical pile! smile

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Oh faith!  What a magical word. lol

        You must've forgot about the more 2.1 billion Christians all over the world and hundreds of historians that attest to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

        lol lol lol

        2.1 billion people have witnessed with their own eyes.  It must be a fact!  Faith has nothing to do with it.  Why facts when we have faith? 

        I mean, faith, after all says that we must believe no matter how many liars there are in the world. 

        How can 2.1 billion people be lying about the same thing?  They all saw it.  They all have faith that it happened.  They all have been called to witness and remarkably they all have read the same book with the same lie and thus it must be the bible is the truth, the way and the word of god.

        It all makes sense now.  Come on Earnest, jump on the wagon of faith.  Lettuce be lumps!  Lumps for all!!!  Evolution.  Hogwash!  Evolution is just something that only the dumb people chose to 'believe' because they don't understand the truth about life.

        They just don't understand how to believe.  They don't understand faith and they don't understand why God needs you to believe.  That is why the unbelievers burn in Hell for all eternity. 

        Didn't you know.  Your purpose in life is to have faith in Jesus Christ because he came and died for your sins.  So I can do whatever I want with good conscience because I am a believer therefor Jesus Christ, through faith in what I have never seen, which doesn't require proof only faith... then I am saved. 

        Oh praise the lord all mighty for taking my sins and accepting me into his kingdom of heaven so that I can have everlasting life away from the liars, the thieves, the rapist, the murderers etc...

        praise it be the lord!!!! lol

        1. profile image51
          rawkncrunk007posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          you go!!!! god rawks!! smile

  10. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    QUOTE: School shooting has been directly connected to evolutionary thinking Kip Kinkle(school shooter) stated "That jock isn't worth the jaw evolution gave him. Look for his jaw it won't be on his body" as he gun down several on his fellow students. The columbine shooters wore t-shirts under their trench coats that read "Natural selection".
    This doesn't say anything about evolutionary thinking, those boys would have used something else if they didn't know a thing about evolution. Correlation does not equal cause.

  11. kverdasmith profile image61
    kverdasmithposted 14 years ago

    Wow! We have it figured out now. We are getting dumber by the minute. We peaked somewhere in history and we are going down the other side and have just enough intelligence left to know it. Let us now congratulate ourselves as we fade slowly from the beautiful planet earth where it ran perfectly fine without us.

  12. profile image0
    Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago

    Let me just save you some time, blah, blah, blah, the world is against me, evolution is the devil, and its all a secret conspiracy that you alone have seen the truth of, yeah we get it.

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Trust me on this one, you cant fight crazy..your going to get a headache!!!

  13. getitrite profile image72
    getitriteposted 14 years ago


    1. profile image0
      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You rang lol You didn't give any counter points to the facts, just silly ranting. If you had a counter point we would have debate, but when you have go to name calling, ridicule, bible mocking. I don’t have the time and you really have no point. Sorry sad

      1. getitrite profile image72
        getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        My counter-point is that you have no real evidence to associate the decline in education to the introduction of evolution in schools.  I simply don't need any other examples than what I have stated.  Read and understand please!

        You are one of the most closed-minded individuals I have encountered on here.

        1. profile image0
          thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Would you take my word for it? No. so look up the stats yourself.

          1. getitrite profile image72
            getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Your religion has no real basis in any of this, however, and is still a grand delusion.  Even if I view the sources, and they are relevant, I will never default to the Bible.  That would be counter-productive.

            And even if evolution is an outright lie, the Bible's view of creation is a million times worse.  So why try to use this as a chance to bolster belief in this nonsense.

  14. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    How can George Washington and Paul Revere be left out of an American history book? Are you serious? Oprah, no matter what one may think of her, does have an impact on our society apparently so it's not too strange that she would be in there. How weird that must be for her if they really do that?

    1. profile image0
      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yep, they'll have the final vote next week on who's in and who's out.

    2. profile image0
      Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I was always surprised how we never made it to any history after WW2 in classes. Now in college its the same unless you take a specialized study course. Its as if everything after 1945 is irrelevant or shameful take your pick.

  15. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    I think after WWII info was covered in civics and government classes.

    1. profile image0
      Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Not where I grew up, its as if it never happened.

  16. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    I've studied German, Spanish, a little Russian and Japanese, English is the most complex as far as I'm concerned. Japanese is just totally different, hard to compare.

    My son is so annoyed at the English language that he spent the past couple of weeks making his own. He studied word roots and  grammar to invent a language that works 'properly'; to him that means it should be as logical as math.

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ha ha. smile lets make up a metric language...

  17. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    Maybe teaching evolution isn't the problem so much as the change in mindset accompanying it. We're nothing but animals, there is no moral basis, all is a struggle to survive and conquer others for our gain.

    1. profile image0
      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you! I'm not trying to evolution out of the schools, but show the problems with the theory and when you start to see the problems you'll see it's not possible.

      1. Evolution Guy profile image59
        Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You are a liar.

        Slavery. Segregation. American Indians wiped out. All good family values? lol


        You are just another religionist attempting to defend your ridiculous beliefs. Any way you can, and attacking evolution is one of them.

        Sorry your ridiculous beliefs are now being ridiculed. As I always say - "If you do not want your beliefs to be laughed at - you should not have such funny beliefs." lol

        1. profile image0
          thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Mark, you're calling me a liar with no proof. Shocking! Didn't you have a problem with this before.  Where did you get you science degree? I know you hate me picking on the religion of Evolution but I have to. Evolution is a joke, you're the punch line!

      2. yoshi97 profile image57
        yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        It's not evolution that has problems so much as it is Darwinism. Ask anyone in the field if they believe in evolution and you will see a huge show of hands then ask if they also believe in Darwinism and the number of hands will drop quickly.

        So, if the scientists aren't buying Darwinism then why do the religionists keep using it as a place to drive a spike into evolution?

        Evolutionary facts:

        Life started out simple ...

        Life became more complex over millions of years ...

        Now ... either simpler life evolved into more complex life, or more complex life spontaneously appeared after the inception of simpler life forms

        It's not natural selection .. it's not chimps undressing and becoming humans ... it's a precession of simpler organisms appearing before more complex ones and we all would be fools not to ignore that fact.

        I've answered every evolution question presented to me to the best of my ability and admitted to when I could go no further, and yet, I haven't asked for a single gram of proof for God.

        So, it's the creationists turn to answer a few questions ... After all, you say evolutionists never answer yours, let's see how you answer some of theirs:

        1. We know the story of Genesis. How was this story originally recorded? Did Adam write down the facts? Did Eve? Where is the original parchment?

        I know who wrote Genesis - tell me how the story was given to him. If it was by word of mouth, then why should we trust it?

        2. Who was with this man when he was told the story of Genesis? (and I mean directly beside him, verifying what was being said)

        3. Why hadn't such an important story been written before? Remember, written languages predates the author.

        4. Who recorded the story of Noah's Ark?

        5. How do we know what happened before Noah's Ark if only Noah and his family survived? Did he keep written records? Were are they?

        6. How much of the Bible relates to events before Noah's Ark? How did Noah and his family pass on all of this knowledge?

        7. Where is the Ark of the Covenant? Why is it kept hidden?

        8. If the Jews were the chosen ones, why did they turn their back on Jesus?

        9. Why did Pontius Pilate have Jesus crucified? (I don't want to know the crime he committed, I want the political reason)

        10. Was Moses of Jewish birth? (a trick question) If not, why did God pick him to lead his people (the Jews) out of Egypt

        You say evolutionists always dodge every question, so let's see how questions are fielded from the other side of the fence.

        For every one you get wrong or can't give a good answer for you will not lose a point ... You will just be faced with the same dilemma evolutionists are, which is you can only explain things given the facts you have so far uncovered.

        And no ... failure to be able to answer any or all question does not disrepute God or the Bible, it just shows that we as a species don't know everything, which is why we can't discount things because someone else can't prove it in its entirety.

        When you are humbled by that we can get back to the real discussion at hand ... what to do to improve the education our children are receiving in public schools. smile

  18. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    I do have a friend who denies evolution because she doesn't yet have wings and can't breathe underwater!

  19. yoshi97 profile image57
    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    I won't debate evolution in schools, as that's not the topic at hand. The issues presented by Thetruthhurts *do* have some merit and are definitely worthy of debate.

    The English language: The problem with english isn't that it's an evolutionary throwback - it's a hodgepodge

    Allow me to explain ...

    American English is founded upon many other languages. As immigrants poured into America they kept many of the words they were familiar with and they were incorporated into American English, along with their grammar rules and spellings. As such, American English feels all wrong - even to those who speak it regularly.

    Is our language a devolving in evolution? I could argue it's the opposite, but I want to stay focused here. Fact is, it's a language comprised of many words, sayings, and ideas from many different cultures, which is why it's been adopted by many different countries as a second language. Almost any nationality can find some familiar words in American English, which is why it's so readily adopted. And one world language would be evolution ... not devolution ... as it would allow everyone to communicate easier.

    Still, American English is a mess, and I certainly won't disagree with you on that! smile

    Our education system is a mess as well - which is another point I will agree with you on. While our colleges and universities excel (proven by the many who arrive here from abroad to gain an education they can't find in their own countries) our elementary, middle schools, and high schools are grossly inadequate for the times.

    The problem is that we went from a largely agricultural society to a largely manufacturing society ... and then forgot to shift gears into an informational society (in schools, that is).

    Our basic schools are still pumping out factory workers when factories are disappearing in America, and this needs to stop! We need to churn out students who are up on technology and services ... as these are now the only areas in which the United States can compete competently in today's global market.

    We don't need more steel workers or textile workers in America, we need more scientists, more health care workers, etc.

    Other countries, such as Japan, have already made the switch and are reaping the bounties. We just lag behind because the heart of America is always slow to change.

    And, sad to say, a loss of religious identity also plays a role in America's decline, but not the role reported here in this thread.

    Allow me a chance to explain ...

    Yes, many of us see religion as mindless sheep being led around, but we also must recognize that religion bestows good values ... 'though shalt not kill', 'be kind to others', 'expect not and ye shall receive'. These are core fundamental beliefs needed to keep a society together, regardless of how they are received.

    With both parents working hard nowadays and placing their children in daycares, children aren't receiving these values anymore, and then we look in shock at the atrocities that occur. It's a loss of morals and values that has seeded ugliness in America, and many other countries.

    I'm not saying we should plug our children into religious cults that breed them into mindless servants ... what I am saying that we need to take our children where they will learn good values - and we can reinforce our own.

    One hour a week at the local church never created a mindless zombie out of anyone. We give religion far too much credit when we state how it leads us not to think ... As anything, in moderation it's good for us.

    Where religion can become counterproductive is when we stop seeing the Bible as a guide for good living, and instead, see it as a manifesto of how everyone around us must behave.

    I'll tell a story that I think might help everyone understand how I can believe religion is a good thing, and how forcing the word can be a bad thing.

    Jacob is a farmer in Idaho ... a very pious man ... he wakes up every morning and prays to God for a good harvest and for the good health of his neighbors - and then goes off to work his fields all day long. Every year his family is fed by the grace of God with a plentiful harvest, and he shares the excess with his neighbors, caring not for their beliefs - as they are human beings too, and just as deserving of sharing his bounty.

    Zachariah is another farmer. He is a pious man as well, but he is not of the same stock of Jacob. He sees the farmers around him as wicked men who reap what they sow. He even looks down on Jacob - as he sees it unfit to share a harvest with those who don't pray to God daily.

    Each morning, Zachariah prays to God and then goes to work in the fields. He sees his fellow farmers coming out of their houses and refusing to say their prayers so he stops his work to admonish them. He even goes to other fields to show others how they are farming all wrong ... spending most of his morning shaming his neighbors.

    Midday he stops work and offers a two hour solstice to God, extolling on how he is so angry with his neighbors for not believing like he did. He swears to God that he will never ignore the impure as Jacob has and resolves he will testify to his neighbors until they hear him and rejoice in the word.

    He then returns to his fields, stopping periodically to sneer at the evil ways of his neighbors, all the while promising God he will always be the better man.

    Night falls, and Zachariah returns to his house to read the Bible and then go to bed. He continues this process, until harvest time, at which point he finds himself with barely enough to eat for the winter ... but thanks God for the harvest and realizes he is being punished for not doing better at spreading God's word.

    Jacob stops by to offer some extra food, but Zacchariah rejects the offer, as it did not come from God.

    Then ... one day ... a tornado arrives, killing both Jacob and Zacchariah. There, standing before St. Peter, Zacchariah watches Jacob pass through the gates and is offended. 'Why let a heathen like that through?' he asks.

    St. peter replies, 'Because he spread God's message'

    Zaccariah recounts all the daily sermons he gave and how much he endured to be God's servant and St. Peter interrupts him to say 'And you were repaid for your deeds. God gave you just enough of a harvest to survive.'

    'So why did Jacob always get a better harvest?' Zaccariah asked.

    St. Peter placed his hand upon the man's shoulder, 'Because he knew Jacob would understand what to do with that which was left over. Had you been a pious man, you would have understood as well ... the word of God is there to help others, not judge them ... for you can't reap a bountiful crop by constantly minding another man's field.'

    That's a story I live by, and one that I feel explains the true meaning of Christianity. It's not about improving other people, it's about holding yourself accountable by setting a good example.

    Going back to education ... this applies to our children as well. By reading more books and encouraging our children to read, we help stop the cycle of illiteracy.

    By taking the time to help our children with their homework, rather than insist it's schoolwork, we help them get a better grasp on mathematics.

    By sharing our harvest, we allow our children to grow. It serves nothing to mind over other people's children and how far they have fell behind ... the question is .. how have you done with your own harvest?

    If everyone tended to their own field, we would find ourselves with a surplus ... and that's what America needs to become a strong country again.

    And yes ... there is one facet where we are devolving ... it's ethically ... as society seeks to blame everyone else for their woes, accepting none of the blame for themselves. So many of us have grown selfish, looking hard to find the worse example to make ourselves look better ... look inward ... improve your own harvest and the excess will seed a thousand more bountiful fields!

    As for evolution, as we seem to want to lead back there again ... ask yourself this. Does the existence or denial of evolution change or negate our existence? Need it change or dny our beliefs?

    To debate evolution is like debating whether dolphins are sentient creatures. We have a lot of facts that seem to conclusively prove it's true, but unless we can put a dolphin brain inside our own we can never be 100% sure - and the absolute answer would not change anything. Truth or lie ... we would still all wake up human tomorrow.

    So, if we could, let's keep the debate logical and keep evolution out of it ... it's 1% of the 12 year school curriculum (if that), and certainly not the cause of our current decline.

    Facts are facts ... our lower education system is a debacle and we need to do more - inside schools and outside of schools - to fix this mess up.

    1. profile image0
      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      your so cool yoshi

  20. profile image0
    lyricsingrayposted 14 years ago


  21. Daniel Carter profile image64
    Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

    A generalization is not a good way to promote facts or truth.
    As I understand it, a fair portion of the earth's population doesn't give two hoots nor a holler about education or much of anything else other than what affects their daily comforts and habit.

    While, on the other hand, we never have before launched anything into space prior to the 20th century, nor have so many diseases been curable nor have skyscraper been thrust into the atmosphere to such heights.

    For those who want, need and choose to excel, their need for knowledge is unquenchable and they are the pioneers, innovators and thinkers of every new generation. And conversely, there will always be those who want a free ride and to be entitled to every good thing without any effort on their part. That's the way humanity has always been, not dumbed-down to be.

    I think for as much digression of society as there may be, there is also at least equal progression of society by innovators, achievers and thinkers.

  22. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    a closed mind atrophies for lack of use.

    the key to learning is curiosity, asking questions, being so thirsty that the cup is never filled. where you put your focus is what you see. it is amazing what is available to learn and how more and more is being discovered each and every day about our world, our past, our possible future. there is an excellent series on PBS that started last week about Evolution on the Nova series. look it up, you can still watch it online. I often wonder at those who dispute it when evidence is found to support it?

    it's o.k. to open your mind and learn, that's one of its functions. smile

  23. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    The Bible is a collection of historical accounts and tales of men attempting to understand the spiritual component of life. For those who've never experienced any more than just what their senses show them, it's incomprehensible. From the bible accounts, it was incomprehensible to many of them too, we read about how they tried to make sense of it according to their then-current knowledge, culture, and understanding.

    1. profile image0
      thetruthhurts2009posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, but there's more How did the men back then know that ocean floor contains deep valleys and mountains, and that when dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. We didn't discover these things until this past century.

      1. profile image0
        TMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I think God gave people the instruction "manual" that tells what we are and how we function best.

      2. Evolution Guy profile image59
        Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this


        Sorry - that is all your garbage is worth.

        Tell me how old Noah was again? And the proof? Oh yeah - the bible.............. lol lol

        1. profile image0
          sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So we could answer with; it took many, many years observation before they figured it out and came to that conclusion.

          Yet, he says that sanitation was recently introduced.  The irony goes on and on an on.............................. and on............................. and on........................... and on.......................

  24. underhiswings profile image61
    underhiswingsposted 14 years ago

    I taught my child at home and did not hold him back.
    I did not have to teach him down at the level of the
    "ding bats in the room"

    When he was old enough for "high school", he asked if he could go to the local public high school to see what it was like and what he'd been missing.

    I recall about 1 week into his "adventure", he came home and exclaimed,

    "no offense dad, but the overwhelming majority of these kids are stupid idiots and have the mental capacity and intelligence of someone who is 10, and the students treat the teachers in a very disrespectful manner, they are rude, disruptive, arrogant and on top of that, clueless!!
    I wanted to knock a few of them up side the head and see if anything came flying out"

    He soon realized he was wasting his time and asked if he could go to the classes for the 18 year old students and see if he could get a challenge.

    Of course the "people in charge" said no and he left the school. lol

    1. underhiswings profile image61
      underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
      1. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this


    2. pylos26 profile image70
      pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Please tell more of your son's home schooling...what will be his occupation...will he go to college or will you teach him there too???

      1. underhiswings profile image61
        underhiswingsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Nope, he started his own company when he was 16 and he has plans for more of them. I give him all I can and if he wants to know things that I do not, then he does his own research and discuses it with other colleagues.

  25. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    I'm glad the PBS special on evolution was mentioned again. We don't have TV but I can watch it online. I've read so much nonsense on both sides, for and against evolution, that I'd like to get it straight. Merely for the sake of curiosity, it doesn't change my knowing God and it doesn't make me think more or less of humanity.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think Mr. Evolution said it best when he said, "I think that our failure is that we didn't teach it right."

  26. yoshi97 profile image57
    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    Again, I ask, how does the teaching of evolution devolve society?

    It's a theory that is taught in school over a matter of a few days. Not once is God brought into the conversation at schools, nor do schools offer it as proof that God doesn't exist. As such, children being taught evolution does not cause them to disbelieve in God.

    I'm beginning to believe something that someone said a while back ... 'They persist to find anything that could possibly deny God's existence as they must prove he exists to themselves.'

    Show me the school text book that denies God's existence. Show me the science paper that proves God does not exist - and I don't mean some public rant - I want hard science. Show me where science has shown a concerted effort to use evolution to disprove God.

    If you can't, then evolution vs. creationism is taken off the table as a religious debate.

    After all ... we could possible take life all the way back to the first microbe and there would still be room for religion ... what created the first microbe? God?

    And with God seen as a force of nature, anything that happens by natural forces is directly seen as an act of God ... this is testified to in the Bible itself! Therefore, if evolution exists, it's part of God's plan. If anything, evolution is NOT proof that God doesn't exist, its irrefutable proof that he DOES and continues to work actively all over the Earth.

    So, I ask, why refute the actions of your own God? Again, I ask, are you looking for someone to disprove God and fail so you can know that your beliefs are solid? Because if you are ... you need to know something. It's impossible to disprove faith ... as faith is belief without need for proof. Look it up!

    Evolution doesn't command you to stop believing in something, it merely opens a possibility for how life might have evolved - and it takes belief as well ... belief that the research was right ... belief that the data supports the facts ... belief that it is all even possible.

    And so, evolution is as much faith as religion is - with religion supported by a Bible and evolution supported by archeological digs. And as much as you could hold either in your hand, to say that you hold irrefutable proof is a falsehood, as you where not there for the original inception of either one.

    Now, if anyone witnessed the actual events taking place when then Bible was written or walked upon the Earth in its early dawn to watch evolution take place I will gladly accept your view. Otherwise, the whole evolution vs. creationism thing is a stupid debate as neither party can ever prove their case 100% to the other side.

    Oh, I have seen the questions for evolutionists and I have witnessed them answering what they could - and admitting some questions could never be satisfactorily be answered. However, what proof do the creationists offer?

    Facts are facts ... it's as difficult to prove creationism 100% as it is to prove evolution 100%, so why not let it rest?

    Better yet ... let's just debate the whole creationism vs. evolution thing until we all die, allowing our society to continue to devolve why we tend to there crops and neglect our own? After all, it is so easy to blame the view of the other for the faults of the world but it's a darned difficult thing to actually get our hands dirty and actually do anything about them, eh?

    Sorry, but I've heard enough of the blame game. Religion and science are not the source of the world's problems ... it's the want for everyone to assign blame, hoping someone else will solve the problems for them.

    My son does the same thing. Whenever he loses something in the house he blames everyone for stealing it from him and throws a tantrum until somebody finds it for him. Does he then apologize? Nope! And that's how all of you act when you debate religion vs. science, as you see a lot of real problems in the world, but you would rather blame the other side, hoping they will fix them - rather than do anything about them yourselves.

    There are extremists on both sides ... and neutral parties in-between trying to resolve the mess you continue to debate and overlook. Want to solve the problems of the world? Stop blaming others and fix them!

    Sorry for the rant, but I'm a bit sick of this 'new attitude' I keep hearing where science or religion is the cause of all of the world problems. It's about time we all grow up and hold ourselves accountable for the world we live in, instead of expecting God or science to fix everything for us. When will we all hold ourselves accountable and start fixing the mess we live in? Is that too much to ask?

    Religion ...

    Science ...

    A starving child in Africa cares nothing for such a pitiful debate unless the religious person takes him some food or the scientist helps him grow more. But hey ... let's all debate 'the truth' while millions continue to starve and die.

    Think I'm being a bit harsh? Let me send you some of the pictures of the thousands that will die this year alone ... then you can tell me how important it is to prove or disprove the existence of God.

    For them, you could be like a god, debating ways we could find to help them receive the food and nourishment they need. Science and religion claims to work for the betterment of all - but all I see is a lot of horn tooting. And that ... is what degrades society ...

    1. Evolution Guy profile image59
      Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Actually there is an awful lot of concrete evidence for evolution and no one really questions it as happening except these guys.

      Bu I agree - religionists making  fun of  people believing in something because of "faith" is pretty ironic.

      Even though it is not true. lolL

      1. yoshi97 profile image57
        yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        It's as I said though ... there is no smoking gun you can hand someone that will ever make evolution 100% believable to all.

        You could hand someone a turtle and have it evolve before their eyes and they would agree that it had indeed evolved, but that is not conclusive proof it happened in the past.

        In the converse, you could find the original Ark that carried Noah and the animals safely across the endless sea, carbon date it to the right date and find fossilized animal dung inside, and some would still argue that it was just a boat used to transfer animals across a long dead sea.

        The inability to ever prove either side true beyond everyone's doubt makes the debate inane, as it can never be resolved. The fact that we believe what we do should be enough.

        And again, I add, that poor starving child in Africa doesn't believe in God as he has not eaten for days, and he doesn't believe in science as no scientist has come by to offer him the means to produce more food.

        He's looking for something to believe in ... who will win his heart .. science or religion? Neither, if both continue to debate over a topic that offers him no sustenance  ...  unless he cares to eat the pile of paper that printouts of this stuff would provide.

        Why argue our beliefs with our mouths when we can put them to practice with our own two hands?

        Religion and science are both capable of improving the lives of men, when applied to solving problems that meet their needs ...

        1. Evolution Guy profile image59
          Evolution Guyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This is nonsense.

          You are comparing proven scientific facts with religionist garbage. and suggesting they are on a par.


          1. yoshi97 profile image57
            yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Not all of science is proven ... a lot of it is facts and theories. But, if you derive enough facts about something - whether you witnessed the event or not - you can discern that a theory must be so.

            Case in point: You leave a light on in a room and lock the door behind you. Open reentering the room you discover the light is off.

            Did someone else turn it off? You know you have the only key, so that can't be the case.

            Did the power go off? The other lights are on on the building, so you can assume this is not the case.

            Did the bulb burn out? You change the bulb - and still no light.

            By process of elimination, you now know something interrupted the circuit, but without getting into the light fixture or the wiring of the building you can never be 100% certain what it was.

            Your belief is that something interrupted the circuit, but you reached this belief without actually offering 100% proof, which would be the malfunctioning component in the light fixture or the wiring break in the wall.

            This is how science works ... it puts together enough facts to postulate what occurred without being able to offer up the actual conclusive proof that would remove all doubt. In the case of evolution, only being there on Earth during day one and watching the process could make anyone believe it 100%, but we have provided enough proof otherwise to assume this must be the case.

            As is the case with religion ... There are many texts that back up the Bible and what it says. To many, this is proof that it is nothing more than a gathered book of stories, but to others this is proof that it is an actual account handed down by God - page by page.

            As with the light fixture, religionists can offer proof, page by page, as to how the Bible is a verifiable and accurate document, but at the end of the day we can only accept in through belief as none of us were there the first day to see if God actually handed it down to men.

            Like science ... you accept the proof offered or you don't ... and to a religionist, the Bible is as much proof of God as a fossilized bone from 'Lucy' is to a scientist.

            Neither can ever to discount the other, because the only possible way to disprove something is to be there to witness it never occurred - there is no other conclusive proof.

            Can you prove that - in the place where you now sit - no one has ever died? At first count you might say 'yes, no one ever died in this house', but what I was really asking was 'has anyone ever died in the spot where you currently rest - and that includes the lives of every man, woman, or child that ever lived.

            While you might dig for bones and find none under the floorboards, is that conclusive proof? Scavengers could have carried them away or the person might have been buried elsewhere.

            You can't even prove that there isn't an african elephant sitting beside you as you type.

            I know ... I know ... preposterous ... right? Well, according to the theory of parallel dimensions, every conceivable possibility exists in another dimension. Can we disprove that? Nope ... which is why we can't prove that there is no elephant sitting there beside you.

            If someone refuses to believe in religion or evolution it's because they don't care to concede to the other view because they feel it invalidates their own faith - be it in science or religion.

            Many things can be proven ... a dropped rock falls to the ground ... but that's because we can't deny what we see happen before our own eyes. However, that which we can't personally ever witness is much more difficult to believe completely, due to the burden of proof.

            That's why I won't discredit the possibility of God, as I can't conclusively prove he does not exist ... nor can I totally disprove evolution ... as I can't conclusively disprove that either. As such, I will believe in both, as neither crosses out the other for me.

            famine ... I can prove ... illiteracy .. I can prove ... Wars ... I can prove ...

            and I would like to see more done to make these plagues of society into something our children will someday disbelieve in ... as they can no longer offer proof that they ever existed ...

            1. profile image0
              sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              But if you fix the problem, I am 100% certain it worked. wink

            2. getitrite profile image72
              getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Religion is not on the same par with science.  Yes, it seems that every theory takes some faith and belief, but religion asks us to take too great a leap.

    2. profile image0
      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      when I was little I asked my Mom, "can you prove God didn't use evolution?"
      I didn't eat dinner that night.
      the thing is, both ideas exist. Believe them or not. It is a disservice to our children to deny them information. They have every right to know both sides and let them make up thier own minds.
      what any of this has to do with the American form of the English language is beyond me...

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Or farting in public for that matter!

      2. yoshi97 profile image57
        yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Agreed ... though it's much simpler to argue over a problem that solves nothing than to apply such debate to something that could help millions.

        Do we actually fear responsibility if we debate something of worth and help our fellow man? I mean, for every thread in the religious forum that debates creationism vs evolution, shouldn't there by ten more that debate how religion and science could help end wars, stop famine, and create peace?

        That's why religion and science exists - to better our world, right?

        If so, then why can't the two work to serve their purpose, rather than blame each for the problems that exist?

        Our educational system needs an overhaul ... fine ... we offer suggestions to fix it ...

        Here's some ideas:

        Use computers to accelerate the learning of those who are capable of learning faster

        Have those who learn faster mentor those who learn at a slower pace

        Learn a child's strengths early-on and tailor a curriculum for them that they can excel in

        Focus less on history and more on world culture ... We need to learn about the past to prevent making future mistakes, but not all of the past applies to today's world. We need to think of ourselves as more of a global community and less a grouping of individual states. After all, it's much more difficult to hate that which you have grown to understand

        We need to go back to bestowing values upon our children. School and home should be all about teaching children to interact properly, which means removing the bullying from the schools and introducing better values at home

        Education needs to have its rewards. We work for a paycheck, but what gifts are offered to children who excel in school?

        Education, IMHO, is the cure to all the worlds problems. As such, we need to strive to become the most educated country in the world. Illiteracy disrupts our country at all levels, creating jobless, poor, and unequal societies. By fixing America at the school level we give the next generation a better chance than we ever had ...

        1. profile image0
          Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          IMHO..honest or humble? I am not being sarcastic, I really dont know what that means.
          education...that's why I am one of those "religious nuts" who  homeschools.
          But there is tolerance, understanding, and something else that I can't quite define. All the educaton in the world will not make a lazy person go to work.
          I am sure greed, dishonesty, and selfishness aid in the decline of society, and I am not sure education will fix that.

        2. profile image0
          Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I have no idea. You got me. I think your a rare breed yoshi...
          I do wish that it could all work together.

  27. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    Evo guy, what are you calling garbage? People DIDN'T know those things so I don't assume it's that you refer to as garbage. My post about people trying to understand the spiritual component of life? I just don't know what specifically you are talking about.

  28. profile image0
    Denno66posted 14 years ago

    I'm not surprised.

  29. quietnessandtrust profile image61
    quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago

    It seems like both sides are saying this.

  30. TimTurner profile image70
    TimTurnerposted 14 years ago

    I don't think we are dumber or sicker at all.

    Our brains are so overloaded in today's society because of technology.  We multi-task 1000% more than people did just 50 years ago.

    Technology is turning our brains into super organs.  Technology is supposed to advance another 1000% in the next 100 years.

    Basically, we can't even comprehend what our lives will be like in a 100 years or even 50 years.

    Our bodies are bombarded with way more stress than ancient people's and various chemicals.

    If you could bring back a Roman to our time today, I guarantee you they would be dead or debilitated within a few months.  It would be too much for them.

  31. quietnessandtrust profile image61
    quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago


    who we fooling?

    1. TimTurner profile image70
      TimTurnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Aliens helped them! smile

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Gosh, were do you get your facts.  Humans from the future went back in time and helped them. Doyee.

  32. Seriina profile image61
    Seriinaposted 14 years ago

    lol! your so right! I was just chatting about this with my boyfriend last night,also. Its crazy how DUMB it can be.

  33. profile image0
    L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago

    Also, there are a lack of rules in English.

    Yes, we learn 'I before E except after C' and things like that.

    But then you get words like 'Weird' and other exceptions.

    1. Stimp profile image59
      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And don't forget....
      "30 days has September, April, June and November.
      All the rest have 31
      Except for February which stands alone."

  34. drej2522 profile image68
    drej2522posted 14 years ago

    (the people chant) Yoshi! Yoshi!!

  35. profile image0
    TMinutposted 14 years ago

    Glad you mentioned that yoshi about evolution and Darwinism, i keep forgetting there's a difference.
    My only problem with evolution (which I agree is what happens) is that I was taught to expect entropy in all systems unless something was specifically working against it. Adaptation is obvious and easy to see but going from simple to more and more complex doesn't come quite so intuitively to me.

    1. Paraglider profile image89
      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Entropy is often wrongly applied in this way. If you look inside any closed system, the total entropy increases. A sparrow doesn't sit there in a sealed box evolving. It flies about, disturbing the air, eating (converting highly ordered mosquitoes into random bird-shit) and so on. Within a closed system there may be localities where Entropy decreases, but only because it is increasing more somewhere else in  the same closed system.

  36. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 14 years ago

    Yoshi was saying that the ancients were extremely intelligent. It is debatable how they built such wonders like the pyramids but we could replicate them.  I would go as far to say that we can't do it like them because well... we are too damn lazy now. big_smile 

    Those pyramids took hundreds of years to build.  They would start them during one generation and pass it down to the next so you got your grandpa, kids, grandkids working on the same thing.

    Today, because we can do it in little time, a couple years or way less, what would be the point in spending many lifetimes to build something? 

    I would tend to agree that today we want it now, patients last as long as your pocket book can afford it too but I you are right when it comes to their spirit and their connections to the Universe.

    They did do things according to the heavens.  They lived their lives according to the stars.  Today, most don't know a simple constellation.  They still think that that the North star is actually a star in the north and that stars never move...

    So who is blaming who?  Does religion blame science for trying to educate the kids about 'real' things and the 'facts' including things that our ancestors already knew because it was just as important to them as it 'should' be to us today. 

    Does science blame religion for the lack of understanding the importance of the Universe and how life works... mind you the question is not why it works, just how.

    Each side points the finger, "Our kids are dumb because of you."  Yet one side keeps saying and has been saying for as long as it has been an issue... Science is just for the facts, leave religion out of it.

    And it does seem as though religions (because of ignorance) are trying very hard to obscure things which in my opinion causes our kids to become less spiritual overall and less inclined to care about our place in the Universe.

    Seems to me that a certain type of religious person cares nothing about the spiritual consequences of their actions because they have lost touch with reality and they preach all hell and blasphemy and punishment to anyone who says, "No sir, look around you.  I most certainly want to know that that great bright looking star out there in not the North star, it is not even a star!"

    All the while (because I know this is a fact from being a witness to how it works) some innocently ignorant human believes they will be okay if they just follow that star because they have been fed all sorts of bs about navigating using the stars... they don't even know what star they are looking at!!!!!

    So are we really dumber?  No, we are not dumber.  The information, the knowledge is there to be learned.  Why aren't they learning is the question. 

    You know what, I know why!  Because information is being withheld from them.  Too busy buying debt, too busy preaching lies, too busy with what "YOU" want and not paying enough attention to them.  That is why.  And we will leave the next generation scrambling for their survival because sometime in the future, technology will have its downfall. 

    There will be a time when technology will become obsolete and they will have to depend on nature again to survive.  Concerning this and only this, has man become dumber.

    Let them learn you friggin' d***heads!

  37. prettydarkhorse profile image57
    prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago

    We are not getting dumber, lazier is true, you cant judge people through your lenses now, we have come a long way!You cant just simply say we become dumber, technology helps people to think, and during those times, they have just minimal technology to help them to think! No internet, no online education etc,  We have become more intelligent because of the nutrient we are eating, they discovered foods which makes brain grow larger and food for pregnant women etc, plus the technology we are discovering, science is continually growing debunking past theories etc...the question is, are there limits to growth? I wonder what the future might look like when you just sit down and all the gadgets are in front of you, you dont need to go out, just click and click, just like what is happening now. Technology makes us lazier, makes us anti-social,but makes us more intelligent!but are we happier? we become more insatiable!

  38. GreenMathDr profile image66
    GreenMathDrposted 14 years ago

    There are many factors at play here. First is what do you consider dumb. I have a brother who "supposedly" my intellectual inferior since I have 10 years of college and he has none and tests say I'm "smarter than he is. But put the 2 of us in front of a car that is broken down and he would have it running faster than I could call a tow truck.

    I think that the environment we live in and our ability to survive in it is a better measure of intelligence than ones language complexity. A Rhodes Scholar put in the position of a cave man might perish in minutes because he has sufficient knowledge to handle the survival issues of the time.

    A taxi cab driver in Italy set me straight on language. We somehow got into a discussion of Italian grammar.  He laughed at me because I set such great store in proper grammar. He said that the average Italian didn't concern themselves with such things because it was too confusing. My point is that the complex language we are talking about was recorded by the educated. It doesn't reflect what the people actually used with 100% accuracy.

    I think our idea of intelligence adapts to the survival skills we need to survive or advance ourselves in our current culture, whatever that may be.


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