Obedience isn't a GOOD Thing

1. 83

   gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago

   
   For intelligent, insightful, & analytical thinkers only. The WORST thing parents can teach their children is obedience.  Obedient children tend to be followers, never leaders.  Furthermore, obedient children will never be independent thinkers nor creators.  They are merely yes people who merely parrot what others say. 
   
   Obedient children will never question but always accept the status quo. They also will never be highly successful.  They will always be mediocre. Lastly, obedient/compliant children aren't respected, even by their parents.  Subconsciously, parents view their obedient/compliant children as somehow weak & highly malleable. 
   
   Obedient/compliant children are more likely to be bullied because of their malleable nature.  Obedient/compliant children seldom amount to anything in society as they don't have the wherewithal to be successful. Obedient/compliant children develop a SLAVE mentality & are more comfortable BEING SLAVES.  If you want your child to be highly successful & make a mark on society, encourage their rebelliousness. Conversely, if you want your children to be UNTHINKING SLAVES, teach them obedience. To me, obedience is a 4-letter contemptible word.  I believe that children should be independent.  What are your thoughts?

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   1. 82

      peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Yes.
      It's great to see the youngster going on marches against climate breakdown. Fighting against the ruling class.
      I was flabbergasted when I heard a teacher say "demonstrating against climate change, all fine, but do it in the weekend, not during class hours..." As if demonstrating against the climate crisis is a hobby.
      There is nothing more dangerous then civil obedience.

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      1. 77

         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Greta's protest and stricks are on Friday, so people take off work or school to protest also.
         
         Many teachers allow it, as they realize it a more important education about the health of the planet. Sometimes things like this has to show Corporation-ism that climate change is more important than work and study that more likely will be disliked in the future. Plus most of the lifespans of these children will be shortened.
         
         They tried enviorment protest on Sunday, not enough showed up.

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         1. 82

            peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            A lot of adults became cynical, lazy and walk in line. You have your job, watch tv, make some comments on social media and feel good about it. All the fight is taken out of them.
            Great to hear that the Friday for Future is still going on.
            Tomorrow I'm off planting trees with a group of people. Best thing you can do against the climate breakdown.

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      2. 89

         wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         "There is nothing more dangerous then civil obedience."
         
         I don't know - it seems more than a little dangerous when everyone decides that "I will follow the rules that allow us all to get along together...until I decide that I don't like them or think that I can get attention by disobedience. 
         
         When those rules, carefully crafted so we can all live together, are violated and people's lives disrupted simply as a means to get attention it doesn't seem real smart.

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         1. 82

            peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            true, but I was more thinking in the lines of what happened in Germany ´33-´40. People being silently obedient and accepting that a government is taking away freedom bit by bit.
            If you see the world getting worse and a government is not helping, but instead promoting a way of life that has no future for the next generation, then I think you are allowed to take action and be civil disobedient.
            The question is : who is the terrorist and who is the freedom fighter?

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            1. 89

               wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               We may be using "civil disobedience" in different manners.  While I certainly understand your example, I don't see it as a reason to hurt other people or destroy their possessions/livelihood...which is what "civil disobedience" in the form of riots or blocking roadways does.
               
               That would depend on whether you are the one disobeying the laws and harming others.  If so you are a "freedom fighter" while everyone else terms you a "terrorist".

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                  peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  yes, hurting others and destroying other ones possessions is a crime and I don't call it civil disobedience.
                  What Ghandi did with his peaceful march is though. If there are people who destroy window sills or put rubbish bins on fire then they are vandals.
                  But if the police starts to shoot at a peaceful demonstration I won't judge the person who throws back a Molotov cocktail.

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                     wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm just as concerned about demonstrators that block roads and bridges from emergency vehicles.  You want to demonstrate - fine.  Get a permit and allow those responsible to make necessary arrangements so that traffic is moving somehow.  It might be your loved one that dies because an ambulance or fire truck couldn't get through.
                     
                     I've never heard of police firing on a "peaceful demonstration"...although I've heard a lot of people claim that it was all so peaceful, just that people were prevented, by force, from getting to where they needed to be.

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                        Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I find Greta's demonstration are held mostly in big parks and rare demonstration that get attention.
                        
                        Often authorities will refuse your permits to demonstrate. Because it's authorities job to dumb down the public, keep them on those aimless machines and lives. Also to kill them more than the public does.
                        
                        Personally I find demonstration for most part are fruitless. I prefer working in the grey areas moving around those parisites.

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                        1. 82

                           peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Personally I find demonstration for most part are fruitless. I prefer working in the grey areas moving around those parisites.
                           
                           Thanks to protests and occupy sqaure protests (anti corruption protests) (Ocupy Wallstreet was a copy of the Spanish protests.)
                           We have now five main parties (two left wing, two right wing) (and an extreme right wing) and not a two party system. Which makes Spanish politics much more democratic. The anti corruption protests here made a huge change.

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                              wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              We had one of the "occupy" things here - they stole power from a nearby building and when it was over the park they "occupied" had to be bulldozed, right down to the trees there, and there were a couple of rapes and violent confrontations between the participants.

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                     2. 82

                        peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I've never heard of police firing on a "peaceful demonstration" - I had Bolivia and Hong-Kong in mind.
                        Personally the demonstrations I went to here in Valencia, Spain are peaceful and well organized. Without much police. You walk a circuit and the roads are blocked at the time the protests have scheduled their march. As soon as the march passes, the roads are open for traffic again.

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                        1. 89

                           wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           And that's the way demonstrations and marches should be.  They aren't going to choose roads that prevent traffic from going around, demonstrators accept the choice and don't cause damage.  I have no problem with those, although of course they don't garner the media attention that riots and complete blockages do.

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   2. 87

      S W Mooreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I have 3 questions:
      
      1.  How many children have you actually reared?
      2.  To how many have you applied this belief?
      3.  How did they turn out?

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      1. 83

         gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         If you have studied sociology as I have & have observed family members, you will observe that children who are reared to be obedient aren't capable of thinking independently.  They also lack initiative.  They are passive, always waiting for others to take the lead.  Yes, raising children to be obedient create slavish children who can be pushed around.  Children who are raised to be obedient & comply don't make leaders, only followers.  Obedient children are targets.
         
         Rebellious children always question- they push the envelope.  They are independent thinkers.  They possess initiative.  They don't wait to be told to do something.  They are self-starters.  They are innovative & creative.  I would rather have a rebellious child who thinks for himself/herself than a compliant, obedient children who is incapable of thinking for himself/herself.  Obedient children grow up to be FAILURES in life!  They fade into the background while rebellious children made a mark in this world!

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            S W Mooreposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Assuming, since you did not answer the first question, that you have not brought up any children on your own, then I would venture to put forth a few scenarios to ascertain that when someone is instructing others, it would behoove them to first have some firsthand experience.  To wit, the following examples:
            
            I have never performed a heart surgery, but I have read some books about it and have even seen some performed on television, but it is doubtful that anyone would come to me for an operation.
            
            I have never built a house, but I have scoured many books on the subject, and I have observed houses being built in my neighborhood, but it is unlikely that anyone would hire me to build a dwelling for them.
            
            I enjoy watching televised sports, reading "Sports Illustrated", and keeping track of scores and stats, but I am certain no sports team would ever draft me.
            
            On a second note, I now determine to put forth some scenarios with a question regarding each, and how one should approach them.
            
            My four-year-old daughter has been told not to play in the street, but being the disobedient child she is, she refuses to listen.  While enjoying a bit of playtime in the road, she is subsequently run over by a truck.  When I run and gather up her mangled body in my arms, do I scold her for not listening, or do I praise her for her demonstration of great leadership?  Sure, she is dead, but she has proven that she would have never been a lowly follower.
            
            When my 17 year old son has been warned about the dangers of drinking and driving, but chooses not to heed said advice, and proceeds to drive while intoxicated, resulting in a car crash that leaves a family of 5 dead, what are my options?  Do I chastise him for not obeying, or do I praise him for his knowledge of what it takes to be a leader?  Sure, the only thing he will ever lead is an AA meeting in prison, but at least he is a leader.
            
            I have told my daughter, who is in college, not to do drugs.  Since I have taught her all her life that she should always disobey, and disregard the warnings of those in authority, she proceeds to live in reckless abandon and saturates her body with drugs.  After she has overdosed, I visit her in the hospital.  Is now the time to praise her for her rebelliousness, which has proven to me that she will never be referred to as a sheep, but rather she will be remembered as a great thinker and one who is innovative and creative?
            
            I really want to believe what you say is true, but as you can see, I am struggling.  Perhaps you could provide some more information that might be able to convince me.

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            1. 83

               gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Children who question authority(in the positive) tend to be independent thinkers.  They refuse to accept things at face value.  They also won't be taken advantage of because they refuse to go along to get along.  They are the type that stand their ground.  Children must be taught to be independent thinkers, not obedient sheep.  Children who are obedient sheep aren't capable of independent thought or analysis.  They regurgitate things to please parents & other in authority.  These are the types of children who will be taken advantage of because of their obedient, compliant nature.   NOW DO YOU GET IT, I HOPE SO!

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               1. 83

                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  One doesn't have to have children to understand their psychology.  Where have YOU been?   I have studied sociology & have observed children.   There are many great child psychologists, teachers & other who have interacted w/children & they DON'T have children.   Please be real here.  A non-related example is a priest who counsels married couples.  The priest has never been married yet he is counseling married couples.  To make it elementary for you, ONE DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE CHILDREN TO UNDERSTAND THEM, THANK YOU.  NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND, GOOD!  One does learn by STUDY & OBSERVATION AS WELL AS INDUCTION & DEDUCTION.  If one has an analytical & discerning mind, one can discuss the issue of children & children's psychology & behavior intelligently.  One doesn't have to have children to be knowledgeable about children.  It is sad that you are an adult but don't know this.  I knew this at twelve.
                  
                  If one has an extended family & friends, one can observe children's behavior.  Do you live in a cocoon?  You have an insular view of life.   Also I was a child before I was an adult.  One can know about children through childhood, peer, & familial interactions if one is ASTUTE as well as study & observation.   Oh yes, I also studied & read extensively about the family.    Good day sir.   OH BOY...…………..
                  

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                  1. 77

                     Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Two most important things I do take credit for is in teaching my daughter. On how to think for herself and how to love what to you do, as we are all addictive to love.. Everything else seems more secondary.
                     
                     The world is overwhelming over obedience. To be stronger and wiser than sheep. You must realize you are :what you think:, first. What everyone else thinks of you is not as important. If your always looking for a leaders to follow, you will always be a sheep.
                     
                     Not to say, you can't take the best notes from other people and leaders. Then incorperate them into your world or circle.
                     
                     My daughter and I share our thinking together and always looking out for each other. She respect my greater experiences in life to take notes. I respect her and take note of her fresh ideas and greater physical energy.

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                     1. 83

                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        +10000000000000000 in agreement! Thank you, Castlepaloma, you GET IT.  Unfortunately, the poster in question DOESN'T & NEVER WILL GET IT. That poster has a very parochial outlook in life.  Simple, elementary logic is SO FAR BEYOND that poster.  The premise is so elementary, really.  I knew this as a child.
                        
                        If one has a discerning intellect, one can surmise that raising a child to be obedient creates problems for him/her in childhood & throughout life.  Children who are more independent minded are better off.  They question authority & are assertive.  These are the children who will be leaders-this is SIMPLE inductive & deductive logic.  Why can't some people understand this simple logic?  Castlepaloma, you are DISCERNING & ANALYTICAL.  Yes, one can learn & discern from OBSERVATION as well as study.    Thank you.

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2. 82

   k@riposted 4 years ago

   I come from very authoritarian parents. I was a very obedient child right up until I became a teenager. Then I became the most rebellious child you never want to see. My parents say they raised us to be independent. However, an  uncle of mine once told me that we look like a military parade following my mother when I was young.
   I consider myself a very independent self sufficient woman. I have proved this again and again throughout my life.

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   1. 83

      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Good for you.   Authoritarian parents are THE WORST parents.  You were smart to rebel against such strictures.

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3. 77

   Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago

   In Finland young students go to school for 20 hours a week and get no homework. Kids independence is very important. They have the highest grade marks in the world.
   
   They are shocked to hear about Americans standard tests and extremely expensive private schools and stressful memory tests . Or about the Schools lack in arts, lack of sex education, feild trips, multiply choice tests. Along with short lunches and what the kids eat in school.
   Plus difficult student loans.

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4. 82

   bhattucposted 4 years ago

   Obedience may make the children submissive but it brings in them a good trait and they will not revolt on everything when they start doing a job and face the difficulties of practical life. So, some degree of obedience will not be as harmful for their growth as presented by the author.

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   1. 83

      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Obedience is the worst trait a person can have.  Obedient people are pliable.  They have no get up & go.  They aren't creative nor innovative. They just accept things as they are.  In other words, obedient people are just sheep.

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      1. 77

         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, the world is certainly over crowded with sheep.
         
         Lucky at an early age I found desire more important than attitudes. Had a decent attitudes of getting along with others. Just didn't get along well with bullies and even some teachers, which can take some toll. Yet they did keep me on my toes.
         
         This over obedience like in religion or their Religious school limit their thinking and abundance of diversities. A perfect school for me would aiming for what peoples desires or dreams are with other subjects secondary.
         
         That is why 80% dislike their job because everyone pushing them around into survival mode rather than their own wanting or desire mode. That is why there is so much bad service out there, because people don't even want to be there, yet have no clue what they really really want either. Sounds so suffering to me.

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         1. 83

            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            +100000000000000000000000, yes most people are musselpeople.  They are the living dead.  That is what obedience teaches-people who are dead while they are alive.  Rebellious people live THEIR TRUTH regardless of what society thinks. Rebellious people are the only people TRULY ALIVE.

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            1. 77

               Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, live life to the fullest!!!

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   Muhammad Tahir Khalilposted 4 years ago

   but  one cannot deny the importance of Obedient behavior in life. it must be an mid way style of training the children. tell them the facts where to obey and where to take decision.  Total disobedience causes extremist and supremacy approach  which is unacceptable for society.

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   1. 83

      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Yes parents should teach & guide children to be best adults they can be.  Parents are their child's first teacher.   What I am discussing is that so many parents push obedience without discernment.  Children need to learn to question & to think independently.  Blind obedience isn't good for children, it teaches them to be submissive in the face of authority.  It further teaches children to obey although the action involved is wrong.  One must teach children discernment, analysis, & independent thought.  I am totally against rebellion for negative reasons or rebellion for the pure sake of rebellion-the latter suggests immaturity.   Negative rebellion is detrimental for the child.  Thank you for responding.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Like when a parent says, don't do what I do, do what I say.
         
         Wail, by being an example, is the best way of teaching.

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         1. 83

            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            EXACTLY.  Children are quite capable of logical discernment & analysis.  Parents are to guide children, not be condescending towards them.  Most parents are condescending towards their children-they view their children as lesser.  Parenthood typically is an exercise of force, power, & dominance over children.  The way parents treat children would be classified as abuse in one form or another.

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            1. 89

               wildernessposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Children are capable of logical discernment & analysis...when their conclusions agree with what they want.  The sections of the brain that are used for such analysis do not develop until into the 20's.

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                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Once they are able to have children, like 12 years old.. We hold them back like they are still children for another 6 years til they are age 18.  I suppose if human lived til 500 years old, we would hold 50 year olds like they were children.

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