What makes consciousness?

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brianzenposted 14 years ago
I guess if you really wanted an unequivocable answer it could be, From that which preceded it. (the antecedant of consciousness) or original consciousness. Which simply is a direct descendant of no consciousness at all. "not much else to originate from but the potential to be there." so like I said to cagsil zero begets one.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not that an obvious thing like that has any decisive impact.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good one.
  in essence, yes, zero begets both 1 and -1. Almost like a conscious mitosis or better, a gluon-hadron collision emits a muon.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well zero is not nothing, it is a starting point where no value of 1 or movement can be determined.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ultimate truth. Welcome to Enlightenment in a nutshell.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm...Please explain, I would like to be in on your take on it. Seems interesting.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  indeed. hence my analogy of prim to codon, sequence to helix, yada yada.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The vinegar tasters.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy to have met someone who is offering something I am only about to learn. LOL (whadda huh? codon wha?)
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Light is the prim which sets in motion the codon, etc of all creation & of course consciousness. One of my chapters involves a energy patterns of light, that appear to mimic chromosomes and -if accurate- show symbolic glyphs (language), yada yada.
It is based on the 3³ concept:

proton, neutron, electron
project, absorb, reflect
dominant, equal, submissive

boring stuff...jeje
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Knowing and Being all interrelated like our concepts of self. Perfect irony really the idea that a lower and higher can exist as we observe the struggle from a middle with no end. Not to bad a view from here.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good Bad its all just moments.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is interesting that we can observe both scopes
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We sit meditation seeking higher from lower first. Then when we see that it is just another concept we look back down and realize. In one instant that its neither. Hence the phrase "Just is" It is the riddle of riddles, We arrive within ourselves and only when we stop (0) seeking. The truth is manifest. So often return to zero. It is like flickering lights moment upon moment like a film strip. I imagine this reality is propelled like a sail upon the time stream. Consciousness is in there somewhere, not a constant at all but always re creating every atom every instant with slight pauses. Hence the vibration.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  spot on. and in that (0) is defined as 'peace', 'space', 'free will'. interesting though how it entails both ends of the vibration -as my theistic side would say the Alpha-Omega.
  the universe constantly in motion, ever expanding -less the reflective instance where the vibration interacts with another.
  
  that (0) is the 'spectra' or optic property of light.
  the projective rays and reflective waves are the 1 -1.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The display is substance and as light is particle and wave we have matter and mass. A lightning flash that must be co-created by itself internally and externally to maintain its harmony or it dissolves like "dust in the wind" As such we are a necessary part of said function. We are through our perception keeping it real (not to coin the phrase.)
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When you return to zero, you essential go home a state of no traveling, a state of rest. So +1 is really a journey...question is in the case of an atom, what is journeying? nothing seems to be traveling, something is pushing creating the receiving. its like you're pushing your foot with your head the finite space of your body causing you to spin. when you stop pushing your own foot, you stop spinning, you are at rest.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  exactly. what is IS the projection, the consideration, the question.
  from there -depending on the necessity { reality = energy * necessity } - said vibe/property/charge will interact and 'spit out' an answer/solution/reflection.
  
  i saw this in physics.
  
  two unlike particles intersect/collide, disappear and poof, a completely different particle appears out of 'nowhere'. It is just beautiful !!!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I know, right? Even the way stars are formed, its almost poetic. When two positively charged particles fuse, nuclear fusion is bewildering. What makes two particles designed tor repel each other suddenly attract? I am aware that the answer may be there, but i don't know what it is.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
just a downhill stream of consciousness gaining momentum, and maybe towards an ocean of itself like water. (maybe)
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
I think that the entire universe and the planet has a consciousness like gravitation in some way. I don't have any way to prove this. Any ideas that the planet and universe both display conscious actions?
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course we have to look for things to find them so even if they do, who would notice?
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  (Of course maybe that is why we are here.) to be that conscious action, the universe becoming aware of itself through us is a practical theory. Why stop at global consciousness, why not Universal?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting stuff, do you have any ideas of there being consciousness in gravity?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well gravity is produced by the presence of matter, bending the fabric of space. So the existence of matter produces a wrinkle that makes more matter fall into it until more and more matter will fall and it will get bigger and bigger.
  
  so is it conscious, I don't think so. the stars that created matter as a by product of their light, actually they have lifespans and secretions. Some scientists have suggested that under our current definition, stars may be alive in its own way. So the consciousness is from the stars that secrete these life giving chemicals and star stuff.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
And then we create artificial universe in cyberspace. Engage the same questions through our avatars and search again in a controlled environment as though compelled to do so. History repeating itself seeking conclusions.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  exactly, which -against many views- supports my argument that human consciousness is total and finite -lacking nothing, unless perceived by the Need To Know syndication/itself.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we just became fans of each others work and fast friends.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  welcome to the outcast village. lol.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Brian,
this is where my très priori comes in.
a projection always project, that being a consideration.
an absorption always absorbs, that being the optic/collective.
a reflection always reflects, that being a conclusion.

the Question/Answer parallel.
My bit is that the human consciousness is simply a tool to be used to unite the projective with the reflective.

ex: the human spirit projects, the mind absorbs the body reflects.

{ a rough example }
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is where the mind requires the tune up, then yes it all becomes radiant. Seeing without that clarity is seeing+perspective. We learn to focus to remove "self and other" so that seeing is "just seeing" then (attainment)
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  subjegation of the mental constraint , prevents emotional spamming. No one piece can be the entire puzzle so recursive logic brings us to our share in the experience.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed. This is what I refer to as Grace, the "adamic stasis", if you will. A totality of light -projective, optic, reflective. Beyond the stasis of mind { consciousness } -meaning the mind becomes fully optic, 0.
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Thanks for all of the information you all put up. I will catch up tomorrow, have a good night.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey have a good one marine.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  night bud.
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
ceciliabeltran
I'm usually respectful? How is what I am saying about plants different from what you are saying?
My first post:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post891682
Consciousness is self awareness (knowledge of one's own character, feelings, motives, and desires and of one's surroundings). It comes about through the five senses and emotions controlled by the interaction of the left brain (analytical thought). and by the subconscious because the conscious mind can only live in the moment and has no memory without the support of the right brain (creative thought and the emotions).

Marines remark:
Again, consciousness is not limited to just humans. Plants have consciousness of the environment and don't have brains.

My reply to Marine:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post892400
Plants have DNA..The root is their so called brain.and the genomes throughout the plant.(AGAIN..you're statement back at you) Plants react to the environment. Plants do not have self awareness in the same way as humans do. Prove this...

Everything that lives has DNA and genetic material that acts as a brain though it is not like the human brain.

If you think my definition of human consciousness is wrong..please take some medical and biology courses.

Marines remark:
I don't need to take medical or biology courses to know your definition isn't absolute. It's funny you claim yours is when most scientists and biologist leave it to philosophy. Maybe you should take some more courses. I think plants have conscious cells just as humans, this is how they make conscious reactions to the environment. It takes the DNA to get the brain. There is consciousness in DNA also. Go back to school.

Your remark:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post892716
Oh Hi Deborah, but no, no...it is not the genome. It's the membrane that is the brain. The brain is that which senses the outside world no?  The genome is the gonads. When you take it out the cell will continue to live but not reproduce or replicate its proteins. Also, marine, the consciousness is not in the DNA, the information gathered by the organism's awareness of itself/outside world is stored in the DNA. You are not like your sperm (hahahaha) Or gonads (hahahahahaha)   The idea that the regulatory proteins react to environment even suggest that as basic as the proteins that organize as strings to be able to move in snake-like motions (the are called nanosnakes), consciousness of the environment is already present. its rudimentary but it is awareness of self versus outside world.  It's called Epigenetics. The thing that we really to agree need on is definition. Is consciousness the ability to make an accurate model of the outside world (or reality) or is it awareness of self even if it does not know the outside world? If hellen keller cannot feel or walk around, will she considered conscious?  Without the senses, will your brain learn and store memory?

Your next remark which by the way has proven to be untrue over and over:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post892724
have you heard of the macaques that suddenly started washing their potatoes, then the macaques in the opposite island started doing the same. It's a famous study. Biologists are baffled.

My next remark:
Faith is the uniting of the left and right brain hemispheres..The two thought processes agree. It's like when you learn something new and you have the ah ha moment..Your mind takes it and stores it as fact..  All things are dependent on the mind..without the mind how would you know you exist? Where do you get your knowledge?

My next remark which I stand by regardless of the disagreement.
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post893022
Oh Hi, I hate to disagree with you because we have the Kabbalah in common. However. plants do not have self awareness. Plants react to their environment and survive against great odds. When the genes of a plant mutates to adapt to the environment, they pass it down to their offspring even when the offspring isn't subjected to the same harsh environment. This occurs through the Genomes. Plants are not self-aware as humans are as Marine whatever has indicated. This is what I learned in my six years of study.  Consciousness is in the communication of the left and right sides of the brain through the five senses and emotions.. It is the mind's awareness of itself and its surroundings. It is the EGO the Id and the Superego. Awareness is due to every part of the central nervous system and the storehouse of memory. Consciousness is also in DNA and Stem cells. The Vagus Nerves are cranial nerves that extend from the brain into the body to supply the organs and stomach, but these nerves also make the brain aware of the body. It crisscrosses back up and enters the brain again. When the connection of the vagus nerve from the brain to the body and back into the brain is broken, the brain may not be aware (conscious) of certain parts of the body. It takes the complete memory cells working together.  Yes Helen Keller would still be conscious although she couldn't see.. However she could taste, feel, and sense. A baby has to develop this consciousness through observation and feelings.   We can live and not be aware (Conscious) we can be in a coma and brain-dead.

Then Marine starts the insults
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post893076
again go back to school. It takes consciousness to replicate DNA. Yes, we can live without being conscious, but we can't live without being subconscious.

More insults:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post896820
I think she is just angry at me because her consciousness evolved from a plant.

more
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/38190?p … post896838
lol You don't say much of anything with value. I thought your higher consciousness school should teach you unity in universal consciousness. Does it teach you that you are mighty for acheiving higher consciousness and becoming enlightened?

There are dozens of childish insults from Marine here..I mirrored him back. (HOWEVER I THINK MARINE IS A FEMALE NOT A MALE)

And I am the disrespectful one.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Mrs Sexton, I suppose that we were on a slightly different wave at this moment but, I think you have a point about sentience not being exclusive. I also think that with some arguments like the one between you and marine the whole point was lost. Which is unfortunate. I cannot say without knowing the motives who started what. I do think you both could probably settle it easily though. He is seeking his enlightenment and you are seeking yours. Neither of you can arrive at it with bruised ego. And I read some of your stuff, I liked it a lot.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Marine posed a question of physical consciousness which I answered.
  Then Marine suddenly knew the answer and started these really silly replies and insults. This is due to her/his disagreements with me on other threads.
  
  Thanks for reading some of my work.
  
  OH and my name Deborah is real but Sexton is my pen name. I prefer Deborah to MRS. Sexton
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now you are assuming I am holding grudges from other threads....ridiculous, the last thread I talked to you on before this one, I gave you my sympathies for something, I don't recall. So, your theoretical assumption is shot. I have nothing personal against you, I actually like the fire in you and your picture is pretty easy on the eyes. I think if you would be more humble to consider ideas before instant ridicule, the conversation would be a lot smoother.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well Deborah, i don't know what you're so hurt about. It is a discussion. I don't really mind being proven wrong. I am just telling you that the DNA is not the source of consciousness but a product of it.
  
  The entire left brain right brain thing is irrelevant. It is a macrocosm of a rudimentary version of cell consciousness. I was just explaining that the DNA is not fascillitating consciousness,its memory, the same way the cortex brain along with the senses generates the consciousness in humans and stores in the limbic system and the brain stem and makes it a programming that can be passed on by the genes. Different matter but same dynamics.
  
  I agree with brianzen, your point is lost. I suggest you get back to that.
  For what its worth, I apologize for "hurting" your feelings, it was not my intent. My intent was to prove a point. Now if you have a point to say regarding consciousness in rudimentary forms of life, then state it. Prove me and marine wrong. Otherwise, you are just working yourself up for people you don't know over a topic that does not affect your life.
  
  In my country we have a saying "ang pikon talo" what that means is this." if you get angry, you lose". Or more precisely "the angry one is the loser"
  
  Really really not worth losing your cool. Its a discussion.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wasn't hurt and not angry. I was simply pointing out the posts.
  No one on the internet can hurt me.
  
  If Marine had not started the silly stuff maybe I could have explained more.
  
  You still have no idea what I was saying. The question did not state anything else except in a medical/biological level.
  
  Prove your own stance.
  
  Again you have missed my point and obviously you haven't read anything I have said on this forum nor on my hubs. Yes the words
  but not the meanings.
  
  Please look at YOURSELF as an exercise.sooo ZEN.and stop trying to always be the master.. Try to sit back and understand what someone else is saying. Instead of saying no..no..no.. as soon as you read a sentence. You've created hubs after I brought up certain things to you..
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and my dear, ah...clarify. Master of what? You want to be the master, ok master....I prostrate to your chosen-ness. Now can we move on, and tell me
  
  what is it about membrane being the brain of the cell not evidence that cells have consciousness.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
that is the reallllllly short, muddled version.
as of late, i have some -i don't know- thousand sequences mapped.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I cannot wait to read your hubs in their entirety, so how have we not been introduced? ............I do agree that grace is the state, The enlightenment state in Buddhism is comparable to being at anchor in the continuum. That said knowing it and feeling/experiencing it is "Quite Brief" so as analysis goes you just get "knowing" and that tends to be conclusive. since it is wisdom from a process of experiencing the truth firsthand. I have had many of these Kensho but Satori is elusive. The only difference is total mastery of the self and that includes the outer aspects that contribute to it. since in fact the origin of our perception is both the external matter, and the internal part. Hense, seeing into ones self sort of is like seeing in a dream state. with what eyes do we do this. and thus trance states appear.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
much of my hubs lean -at the moment- toward the Ism -specifically, Duality turned Quality; Theistic missteps.

My book in progress, Quantus Philo : how great free will, combines this exact consciousness critique, the Ism, energy mapping, etc.
It also includes the full adamic conception from a to z and a practical application of Purity.

===

Serious am going to read your stuff. Am a novice with regard to Taoism -except for some light reading. Looking forward to more insights.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anything you ask, If I do not know I will point at where to look. And Check out Tao Te Ching and Hua Hu Ching, Lao Tzu and you were alike in my estimation. He had these angles in mind like 2600 years ago because he researched the I Ching. Which is a system that they used for answering questions based on the ascribable conditions. People still consult this thing and it supposedly has the very origins of the written word within it.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He was a librarian who considered himself an outcast until he became a great sage. (he held a grudge too.) Not that I think you do. (He did though and if you read tao te ching remember what I said about that grudge.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
will do.

The i ching I know - the 64 hexigrams and of Lao Tzu philosophy. Fitjof Capra included them in the Tao of Physics, which is a great read.

I am off to rest.
Again, great to met you, Brain. hub @ ya soon.
cheers.

James.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cheers
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  china manposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Brianzen - I am in China and looking at comparative philosophy as part of culture comparison.
  
  I find the Tao de Ching is pretty much Critical Thinking/Theory.
  
  Maybe we could start a thread to discuss some of it ?
  
  A bit of time first to get around the hubs might be a good idea to save duplication - I have to say that the language of what you say is a bit daunting but you seem to be saying things I can see
  
  I have been planning to make a hub about east west philosophy comparisons generally.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, critical thinking is actually very zen. Look at yourself sort of exercise.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It also helps to argue with yourself.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Taoism is some awesome stuff without all the bull-sh*t; feel free to blast away on the subject, China Man.
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
For Cellia
The title of this thread created by Marinealways is "What makes consciousness" and his/her first comment was "How does consciousness happen?"

On other threads Marine has indicated he/she holds no true beliefs in No-thingness nor in God..so I answered this on a physical/medical level and answered that question.

I will be writing you another longer answer here shortly in Word first so I am not hurried.

If you are a true Kabbalist you know that all the levels of consciousness is expressed in MalKoot which is the physical man and that the brain is the seat of the mind.

Also everything you are trying to TEACH ME (shattered Vessel/lights, Emanations etc) I have already expressed in my hubs I wrote 4 months ago "The Kabbalah in Simple Terms"= http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Kabbalah-In-Simple-Terms "Kabbalah Concepts" parts I and II= http://hubpages.com/hub/Kabbalah-Concept-Part-1 and http://hubpages.com/hub/Kabbalah-Concept-Part-II, "The Christ and Why He Came" parts I and II. and several more...
So I'm not sure why you are trying to act as though you have need to teach me.

The question posed by Marine is about expression of consciousness or what it is.

I am writing something for this thread to you so please check back.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you hate me? Is this what higher consciousness teaches you?
  I did say that I don't believe anything absolute while I also believe anything and everything is possible. How do you think the first conscious life evolved? Do you even believe evolution?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Marine, at this point really...there's no point.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deborah, I am not trying to teach you, I am pointing out these things to you as part of the argument to prove the point that even the Torah will tell you that all things have consciousness.
  
  Prove your point, not your authority. Your point will prove your authority, so you won't need to point it out. You will just inspire people. And if you think I have no right to speak my mind because how dare I teach you, ask yourself what you are refusing to learn. Because I am not trying to teach you anything.
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
marinealways24

I gave you my sympathies for something, I don't recall.I don't want nor need your sympathy. So, your theoretical assumption is shot. Nothing is shot. I have nothing personal against you, Right.
I actually like the fire in you and your picture is pretty easy on the eyes. I think you are female so I hope I'm not easy on your eyes. I think if you would be more humble Like you? to consider ideas before instant ridicule, the conversation would be a lot smoother. I have studied consciousness via the physical and invisible for many years. You still don't get my drift because you don't want to and you are unwilling to learn. . It is you who started this..so you need to grow up and stop attacking what people say to you right away. If you had been kind instead of childish I would not have mirrored you back..
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mentioned the terms "pretty easy on the eyes"...well, all this 'red' font color that you used, is not easy on the eyes.
  
  Deborah, read Marine's profile... Does that sound female?
  I'd hate to know there were females that took part in some of the activities he says he has. For example, how many female "bouncers" have you seen?
  
  I don't know, maybe Marine's wife is now posting.
  Marinealways24: You have some gender questions to answer!
  Now, get with it... Ha-ha!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say easy on the eyes. See another person not reading. I was quoting Marine..the black is Marine's quote and the red is my reply. Need anymore hand holding?
  Since it was to Marine why did you read it if it's not easy on your eyes?
  
  I had to use the red to separate Marine's quote and my reply. Understand?
  
  I have studied language men use and women use. It is actually science and is used by Forensics. Marine's usage of certain words is overwhelmingly female.
  
  Do you believe everything you read? Profiles?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said you mentioned the terms... Yes; yes you did. If you quoted him, you mentioned the terms! Duh!
  You don't have to use color to separate statements; the rest of us have no problem doing so.
  You obviously have an intellectual complex...and I mean obviously.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll write the way I want and you do the same. Now a fight about red letters. More childishness.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What Fight? Yeah, right! I thought "fight" meant something else; interesting... Write on, Deborah... Ha-ha!
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Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago
Marinealways24
Why do you hate me? Is this what higher consciousness teaches you? big_smile I don't hate you I just like adult to adult talk not adult to child or adult to parent. You don't even know about higher consciousness according to the remarks you have written so I guess mine is higher. You know nothing about me except that when someone acts like a child..I mirror them back..It allows you see yourself if you'd only look.
I did say that I don't believe anything absolute while I also believe anything and everything is possible.How do you think the first conscious life evolved? Do you even believe evolution? I believe in both Creationism AND Evolution.Can't study biology and not believe in Evolution. But we had to evolve from something.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How am I supposed to have conversation when you are not honest enough to admit you and your husband are both wrong about the leaves evolving from the stems? You said yourself that leaves grow from the stems, if one thing grows from the other, it evolves from what it is growing from. So how can you not admit that leaves don't evolve from stems? Why do you think it is unrealistic that we evolved from plants?
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
This may be my fault marine. Last night when you left she popped in and asked if we thought she was rude. I answered that I thought you guys would get along fine if neither of you wanted anything more than to reach enlightenment. I had no idea who was mad at who really. I was trying to stay out of it.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think she believes she has already reached enlightenment or else maybe she wouldn't keep assuming I am a female with no reasoning behind why she assumes this. I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate me consistently assuming she is a male for no reason. I didn't know higher consciousness assumed everything. The red text is also enlightenedly intimidating.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never asked you or anyone else if you thought I was rude.
  Please point me to this.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
I think she mostly does not understand why you were adamant about it, and thought you meant to insult her, and I think you felt insulted too. I reread some of it and its like you both needed badly to feel correct. But that's normal and I think you are both brilliant and should just agree to disagree and live and let live.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But this is just my take on it, I personally would not be to worried if I were either of you, because what you both are doing is happening in every science lab, every dojo, and every ashram in this world. It just usually happens between people who know each other better.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True; the human race has been fighting, arguing, and in disagreement...ever since we first started dwelling on this planet.
  I believe they call this thing 'infinite chaos." It's fun, though...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  who was that? Hobbes, you are channeling Hobbes Obscure, streaming consciousness again.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
And the leaves from stems thing is nothing, they actually come from the needle design of the ancient pine forests, more oxygen back then permitted them more heat and light which is why, After the last ice age as oxygen receded trees began turning pine needles in to leaves. The larger pines had much larger needles but they changed too.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We partcipated in lots of these debates, and generally the quickest road to the best science available, is the nearest college that has any good current resource material. Botany versus paleobotany.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fossil records out of china and russia actually chart the process nicely.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fossil records out of china and russia actually chart the process nicely.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes but Marine disagrees on this. It took me 6 years to get my Masters in Nursing. I also had to take Biology and Chemistry on a higher level.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But it doesn't really matter who is right. What matters is being able to express your side and you did not feel heard, am I correct?
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  which is worse when you know your stuff.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You felt dismissed and that sucks, and you really wanted to be heard in that discussion, I read your stuff you should have been pert of it. But the harder part is being listened too when what comes in to the discussion has seemingly no immediate bearing on the course we were headed in so it was like you were "hijacking the thread" from Marines point of view. (Make sense?)
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly what I did until Marine started ridiculing and name calling.
  
  I don't need to be right. However misinformation is misinformation.
  If Marine had allowed me to express myself it would not have gone this far.
  
  I am tired of all this now. Everyone stating if I had done this and this..
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will wait untill I can assume you read my reply, about hijacking the thread.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If Marine's title and first statement had not been a question it would be different. When you ask a question you get answers. Since my definition is correct it was not Hijacking.. It was on the line she wanted an answer to.
  
  If I had started talking about cookies that would be hijacking.
  
  I was giving one answer. However Marine took it further and I replied to each of her/his remarks to me. That is also not hijacking.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure all of the neurons are firing? You get lost in your assumptions until you fully believe them. You have fully convinced yourself that I am a woman, which is wrong, from what you believe you have been trained about in college. I don't think this is normal behavior. If you get carried away with this assumption, theres no telling what else you think you know that you don't know.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on, Mr. Marine!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can see why you have only 2 hubs and no followers..
  
  Look what you say about yourself in your profile.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have created several hubs; they're just obscure by this reference to me.
  Technically, I'm new here and have only been here slightly over a day; so take it easy on me... By the way, you should like my "Toilet Paper" hub. Ha-ha!
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know what to think now..........Report her If you think you are being harassed?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ney, thanks for the advice, but I don't report anyone or flag anyone or try to ban anyone. If everyone thought like that, I wouldn't be using this stupid new profile with 2 silly hubs, now would I? I actually have some (30+ hubs at this current time) good informative hubs out there, and I bet, there are a few people on this forum that actually knows me from my prior participation.
  
  I'm sorry that Deborah is so defensive. I wish she would direct her frustrations somewhere else, though.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So everyone can say what they want to me but I can't say anything back?
  
  I was following you but now I'm not. Thanks for the 1 hour follow. What did I do to you?
  
  I'm the one feeling harassed. Why is it they can continue to say things to me but you feel if I reply it is harassing them?
  
  Last reply to you. Peace and Happiness
  I won't be back to this thread so go ahead and continue.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  On and on with the insults.
  Does it make you feel better or is it a red herring to get people's attention away from your ridiculous definition of Evolution?
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is ridiculous about it?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know nobody convinced you to react the way you're reacting
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
I am for one glad that we do not use skype exclusively, though it would sometimes make these things easier to sort out, We would all be laughing about this already.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am sure marine is reading this and saying "what the hell?" He probably doesn't see the big deal, He is most certainly the gender that he claims to be. As far as I can tell you can both assume it was just the heat of the topic. It does make people passionate.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I on the other hand was raised by women which is like being raised by wolves, but with shorter teeth. (I just mean I get it)
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He will get it to and say something eventually.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
But you are going about it all wrong. Express yourself gently at first, let them get to know you. You go at things to fiercely for it to sound anything like friendly discussion.
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Deborah Sexton
1532 posts
Joined: 4 months ago
Hubs: 42
Followers: 128I didn't say easy on the eyes. See another person not reading. I was quoting Marine..the black is Marine's quote and the red is my reply. Need anymore hand holding?
Since it was to Marine why did you read it if it's not easy on your eyes?
I had to use the red to separate Marine's quote and my reply. Understand?
I have studied language men use and women use. It is actually science and is used by Forensics. Marine's usage of certain words is overwhelmingly female.
Do you believe everything you read? Profiles?

And you wonder why you can't get sensible conversation. Yes, perfectly logical, you are trained to know feminine words and recognize a profile conspiracy that is simply to trick you. By the way, what is your conspiracy theory for why I would create a false profile?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, really! Plus, she was wrong about that statement because she DID mention the terms "easy on the eyes" by quoting you - as I pointed out earlier.
  Does this all fall back to certain individuals having poor cognitive function or is it simply a form of miscommunication? LOL!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think she just makes assumptions, gets over excited thinking she's right and starts believing them. I honestly thinks she has pride and ego that she is of higher intellect and consciousness due to her education and spiritual experience. I also think she has convinced herself that she is enlightened to make her feel above others, notice she has refuted everything but the enlightenment assumptions I made about her.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really think it is an intellectual complex. Basically meaning that she feels she has to constantly prove her intellect and gets defensive if others start sounding more intellectual or doesn't buy into her "ways of thinking." One could easily say, that type of attitude will have trouble in online forums... LOL!
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who is more intelligent?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly; you proved it again. Ha-ha! LOL!
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
so how `bout them Sonic's huh? what a team.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha-ha! So, how's the weather at your end of the booming metropolis of New York. It is wet, rainy & messy, down here.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  finally, sunny & 65-70. Was out in Central Park yesterday.
  Just g-reat!
  Would have been better if Villanova had won against a bunch of gaels (girls) and Syracuse lost to gonzo, but hey, that's March madness for ya.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
Howdy
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Hey Brian. what's happening?
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Getting ready for my workout routine. (and cleaning the s#it off my cyber shoes.) I felt bad for Marine.
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  brianzenposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes women wait their whole lives to get taken seriously. It wasn't his fault that she chose that moment. He couldn't have avoided that.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
Meanwhile how are you guys?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good good.
  working on the 360 training course, prepping a new hub, still at the task of quantus philo and getting over the villanova upset.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
Can't wait to read it. Villanova, Geez sorry to hear about that. My sport is MMA so I really don't follow now but I get it.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ultimate fighter? have a friend who used to compete.
  he was good. why he became a soap-opera actor is beyond me.
  { well he always was a pretty boy. lol }
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I used to be big into Martial Arts. What's some of your favorite styles, weapons, and established fighters?
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
I used to dojo train constantly, now I just workout a lot and spar, I did compete for years but never mma. Just Kenpo, then Ninpo Taijutsu, Bushido (kendo) and some street fighting stuff. My knees arent so good so I stay out of the cages.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I did some kendo myself but with Aikido. I used to practice 4 hours a day before I got married. It was like meditation on the third hour. I kind of miss it.
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brianzenposted 14 years ago
I think maybe we all need more of that kind of patience, Deb, Marine, Me. You have a good way about you.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  May I just say, it is hilarious that forums become occasionally about who's smarter...we should have forum that has that title "WHO's Smarter? me or you?"
  
  I mean, really? Do we really need to get validation of our IQ here? This is not the venue....take a mensa test, pay a couple of bucks and then get a certificate. Print the image on a t-shirt and walk around town. That would be less humiliating that getting it in forum full of strangers. It sometimes sounds like kindergarten lunchroom conversation in here.
  
  (but I'm taller than you, but I'm going to be six earlier than you, but my mom is prettier than yours, but I can count up to a hundred. OH yeah? prove it)
  
  Back to consciousness.
  
  What is it? Is it a product of the mind or is the mind it's product?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does fractal geometry prove that because we are conscious, so are our cells?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess that's that then until somebody actually goes back to the topic.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
the Zayin is the crowned Vav, unless I am misreading it.

The mind is only a switchboard of information between spirit and body/body and spirit, hence the seemingly infinite probabilities in a finite 'space'.

True, on the grasshoppers. Same as humans -all the same, all unique. However, the human consciousness perceives the infinite -free will. Consciousness is useful, in that its purpose is to provide all necessary information, without which would limit human ability to create or be. The summary of perception, logic, etc is consciousness and the action of it, awareness. Superseding that consciousness has always been the human goal -by either reflections of the Ism.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting. If Zayin (must admit, this didn't quite make an impression until now) is the crowned VAV then translating that to modern times, it means. The Action (along with the spirt/power/force Alef)that fertilizes the earth with life is the culmination of spacetime. wow, that's deep. That means Zayin is about life acting like Alef, like a force on its own!
  
  Darkness (matter with very very low levels of life) succeeded in retaining the knowledge of bright light (concept)with life as its embodiment(expression/execution). It is like a major success, that even in non-motion and non-radiance, (or limited said motion and radiance) the knowledge is still true/applicable.
  
  I must admit though that I am not very free will conscious. I really don't give it much thought. I actually somewhat believe that free will, is freedom not to react with reflex, but to hold an impulse until best possible response is deliberated. Our mechanized behaviors are not our own, but that of our ancestors, so in some ways we are slaves of their habits of choices. The genes should not lead the way, we must be free to program our subconscious in our lifetime to improve our circumstances in the present life conditions.
  
  That is why it is archetypally showing up in mystical thought as "mindfulness", "love others as you love yourself", empty yourself, do not sin, etc etc. All these thought processes involve frontal cortex and takes the burden of decision away from the limbic system which is where our more primitive responses are programmed. example: Snake=will eat you, walk away calmly.
  Moving Shadows=might be something that will eat you, run away. sudden darting movement=something might be stalking you to eat you. freeze, wait. Angry boss=might take what you are going to eat, club him! Man talking to your wife= might eat your -- heart out. beat him up! and so on and so forth. which leads neatly to Obscure's question below.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or, you could call it all hogwash and find this grand illusion as a place for self-discovery? Ya know, since we are all lost bits of information from one disrupted database?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that's why the manual says, peel the darkness. in other words, the darkness is just the lowest level of light, so buddha says all is good.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yip.
  perfect example about said darkness, and its characteristics: a black hole. A former project, absorb, reflect object -turned darkness- having a density so high, very little light (ray, optic or wave) and 'move'.
  
  woohoo!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  must be hungry. it is almost dinner. black hole is trash can. there was this ...lemme look for it. addendum : trash can=waste, the scarab idea. that life can come from waste.
  
  http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/ne … holes.html and for more clarity
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar
  
  which means the darkest darkness produces the brightest light.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ack! quasar!
  
  yeah, the energy emitting from a quasar is said to be so intense, because it engulfed by an ultra dense area called black hole. If correct, then a black hole is an ultra magnetic interaction of both ray and wave -a polar optic collision. I can agree to that. So the perimeter is so intense that the emission is super compressed and thrusting out a 'brighter' wave/ray collective.
  
  berry berry interesting.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  errr...yeah (skimming through books rapidly)
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol. a fellow foody?
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Obscure Divineposted 14 years ago
The original topic will be there, if Mr. Marine has anything to do with it. But, if it gets too far astray, he'll reopen a new thread or forum topic - ha-ha!
Okay, speaking of changing the subject:

Lets temporarily take a break from the topic of 'consciousness' and let me ask a question to y'all about 'conscience'...
Of course, 'conscience' means: The consciousness of the moral right and wrong of one's own acts or motives. LOL!

By the way, before answering: I didn't ask whether you believe in a thing called right or wrong, I asked if we were born with that acknowledgement of justness before we had a chance to think otherwise!

What is true conscience; are humans born with it or does it even exist at all?
I'm just curious about what others think...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  do you want the neurological perspective or the philosophical one?
  
  it is neurologically wired. I wrote an entire hub explaining this.
  http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Garden-of-E … iginal-Sin (not promoting but lazy to repeat myself)
  
  if you're lazy too, it explains that true conscience is really mindfulness, not acting out of fear of death, but of deliberate awareness of what will be good for everybody in the long term.
  
  What are your thoughts. Usually the questioner has some pretty good answers.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you just stole my response question. lol.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  he he he...now you got to think up another one.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Both of ya can give me both; I don't care...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  daz not the point
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I answered the damn question... duh!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wha?
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think conscience is due to past awareness; plain & simple.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  kind of the opposite of what I believe...but lemme explore that option.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it can't be from future awareness. Dammit, I was trying to sleep and here you come... LOL!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sure it can, depending on the perspective of awareness and the a priori to posteriori. The information the same, the perception of instance of a parallel determining how-to satisfy the need for solution. Else, the parallel is called sensation, instinct, meaning it overloads with probabilities at any given instance of optic (absorption).
  
  fear, cry, laugh, hesitate, etc.
  
  example. you are having a heated discussion with someone and so much information is on-the-move, either of you shakes your head, attempting to shake off the sensation overload. My buddy says its like that moment right before you're drunk, when you are aware you are about to be drunk and poof, overload -you wake up in a strange place with a strange feeling and curiosity about what happened.
  
  Oh wait, those were my universe-ity years.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I haven't mastered time travel into the future yet, so I can't really respond to that. I need to reinvent that contraption, by the way...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh yes you have...see you just are not aware of it the contraption is your body.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
just to toss this into the salad.
one of my points regarding consciousness and the adamic conception is that his brain 'overloaded' with information. Like a computer, it was unable to process all that data all at once and sort caused a 'seizure' and the once perfectly stable unit of mind, became a massive jumble of parallels, thoughts that he is trying to sort out for himself.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you're not talking to me, because I never have to reboot my system, as it flows like water. Ask Cecilia, about my intuition, ha-ha!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Obscure has the uncanny ability to assign some breakthrough thought he heard in the whisperings of the air as his. ha ha ha
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ha-ha! Thanks, but it was mine after I stole it from someone else's thought waves. Who cares; I'm talented, what can I say?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  many of them long dead, ya know. your like a "grave thought" robber. ha ha
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that is a thought 21. (love the name by the way, you reprogramming anything?)
  myth concurs. the one soul could not bear the love of Gd and so it shattered into billions of pieces and was lost in darkness, meaning Gd's mirror (validation point) was broken down into infinite ways it is almost unknown.
  
  0=infinity sort of conundrum, when you count to long, you forget where you are so you start counting from the top over and over.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
Which is what (on other threads. my endless agrument, that Y`shua is). 'Alef-Tav' in action, the asher of the ehyeh asher ehyeh )

anyway, lemme stay on topic. lol
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i hear you, 21. we speak the same ancient language. Yshua is Alef-TAV, HENCE THE CROSS with an inri on top. The coming down of divine knowledge to life.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wow! as not many realize this.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes, we are not alone! Bada-bing!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  indeed!
  
  oh no, not the bada-bing. Someone just asked me this the other day.
  the bada bing is actually a backroom of a new jersey strip club where the mafia used to bootleg booze.
  
  hmmm...i wonder.
  
  because it is illegal to sell booze in a strip club in "Joyzey"
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh...Bagel and cream cheese sandwich then!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ha-ha.
  "So he said, "vut is a nice yiddish girl like you doing in a place like this"? She answered: I was starving after those damn forty years wandering the desert looking for a man...na, I'm just kidding"
  
  -bada bing!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  geez careful with that stuff, i read it out loud!
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Chingaznuf zimmpt ta taunttu bingcho azu?
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
it is philos design at the core.

philos being purity -or complete consciousness.

past, present and future are irrelevant to consciousness.
as light and energy are ever constant.

we perceive there is: before, now and after -through the same process of thought: question, collect, answer.

All information is already within, dismissing the need of 'time and distance(space)'.

Awareness is the action of consciousness; so it can either project, absorb or reflect -at any given instance- simultaneously. Thus negating the past-present-future.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you really think we are all created equal on planet Earth?
  Have you ever heard of something called "multiple levels of existence?" Just curious...
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i do.
  yes, i have.
  
  they are nice concepts but 'existence' isn't defined by the have or have not of intel. One can exist with little or no consciousness or conscious action.
  
  To consider that every human is equal makes things a little different on the playing field. It is not because Bobby doesn't know 1,2,3 it is because Bobby hasn't put 1,2,3 into motion (awareness) or that awareness is not correct -meaning the data is out of order.
  
  What really grabs people is when I tell them that deja vu is them projecting beyond consciousness and than reflecting back into consciousness. At some instance that awareness will happen and voi la, deju vu.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The universe doesn't represent equality; for example, the entity of Earth's Sun is way much smaller than many a star that we currently know about. It is not about universal fairness, it is about universal awareness.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  fairness is not the same as equality.
  As I said to Ceci, all grasshoppers are grasshoppers, 'think' like grasshoppers and do what grasshoppers do. But each one is unique.
  Same as stars. all are stars, all unique. This is equality.
  
  The varieties or variations of that equality just are astounding!
  Just take the earths flower category, just awesome. Humans too. Presently 7 billion humans -all shapes, sizes, ages, textures, colors, perspectives, individuality -yet all human having all human characteristics.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I see... We disagree on what the term 'equality' means...
  In my opinion, there is nothing equal about being different. The uniqueness separates us all.
  But, on the other hand, I think you're trying to say that the fact we are all equally different, makes for equality. Now, that's some twisted sh*t! Ha-ha!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  indeed.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  do you remember what I told you about better being an illusion, there it is in 21 days post.
  
  and once again Obscure the line you just said...is a famous line.
  
  "we are all different which makes us all the same." wish I could remember where i watched it, or read it...but i can't. i need coffee....it was even the punchline of a blockbuster
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't read or watch hardly anything these days. This is so weird, that everything I say comes from your "giants" of intellect - as you say, but I'm really being original in my mind. Very strange...
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you're on point OD. As I said, all information is there. You're becoming aware of it (consciousness in motion). Which is awesome.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  x=X
  
  ha ha ha! just kidding....yeah but really x=X
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Also: We do not all collide & die at the same time, much like the visible universe represents the randomness & rebirth, so in that aspect, we can never be truly synchronized; hence, how are we "all" created equal and why would there not be multiple levels of existence?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  again, sync is not based on all things being flat line and going from/to here/there the massive variations of universal equality.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I really don't think you answered my question, but it was funny, though. LOL!
  Damn, I'll have to check back later; I've got to get some rest, since I'm a night-shift working type of guy...
  It's been fun chatting. I'll see ya around cyber-space, at a later date.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think she/he did. The answer is fractals, where size becomes insignificant. the only thing worth measuring is proportion. x=X.
  
  the child is the adult
  the cell is the human
  the atom is the galaxy
  the stem is the tree
  the tree is the forest
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that's called over-analyzing actuality to the point of asininity.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not really. to mathematically minded people it's a like a picture.
  
  ...in plain terms
  
  man is made in the image and likeness of his creator/ the Creator.
  
  i thought you were working....go to your bed, obscure. sleep, then knock on the mainframe and ask about fractals...or you good google it, it's pretty interesting. there was a special in PBS by Nova its called hidden dimensions. you'll like it I promise.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvD-yTym6Nw
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB8m85p7 … re=related
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xHw9zcC … re=related
  
  welcome to order, obscure.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I watched all 3 videos and I thought it was funny as hell. I spent most of my time, reminiscing about Kindergarten classes, seriously.
  Thanks, anyway. Ha-ha!
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't need to Google anything, but I may knock on the interstellar mainframe; ha-ha! Yeah, I should have done went to bed, but I substituted some sleep for extra beers.
  I may check out ya YouTube vids, tomorrow.
  By the way, I quit the whole mathematically minded crap, a few years ago. Cheers!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you didn't quit, it quit on you. just kidding. sweet dreams and say hello to NEO
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marinealways24posted 14 years ago
Why does consciousness want to be conscious when it's far much easier to live unconscious or subconscious?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is it's purpose. Are you asking if consciousness itself is aware of itself?
  
  ( how's that Ceci? jeje ).
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it is partly to do with fear of death. If it wasn't aware of itself, how would it know it's purpose?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well at this point all you say to me is YES! I'm mechanizing to agree with you already...hahaha!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  si si, Ceci.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, life has learned that prediction aka intelligence not only makes you live longer but also better. you don't have to face saber-tooths and rely on your reflex. you see the sabertooth footprints and are able to compute that yeah, not that way. that's not reflex, that's lemme see if i go there and a sabertooth's there, then i'll be its lunch, if I go the other way where the dodo footprints are leading, i'll live to eat lunch and bring lunch to my girlfriend, who will be so happy she'll pass on my genes to her kid. Then my kid will be better at decoding footprints and he'll have better lunch than I do.
  
  myth however says, it wants to go back to where we started to experience the knowledge deeply. Like. I am perfect, am I? yeah, I have perfect hair, perfect face, perfect body...wait is it perfect what are these two things jutting out? oh...they're perfect because they have a purpose, what about these spiny things sticking out, oh that's perfect too, it helps me type..I am perfect, i know it because i've inspected every aspect of myself and it's just great!
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The term 'perfect' is a personal perspective; that was the most silly post I have ever seen you make. [Unless you change/edit it] I hope you've been drinking heavily or something, geez.... LOL!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no, OD, spot on. Perfection is the totality of understanding.
  Lack of active consciousness is imperfect, which is why we 'question' and end up in the Need To Know factory, seeking 'answers' to those 'questions'.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, that can't be true, unless perfection is absolutely nothing. By what you said, we'd have to all become one source of energy again, to be perfect, BUT obviously...there must have been something wrong from our original glow...or else we wouldn't have split to bits to start with!
  ---Fun stuff to think about...
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  believe it or not, philosophically speaking the character Q is perfect too. hard but, yeah...must peel that deep darkness (dimness from that guy). It may take a crowbar, but.yeah.
  
  well the distortions that you speak off are illusions of our own limited perspective. As you can see, mathematics is revealing that the thing we call random and jagged is not. its beautiful and orderly.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, let me get this right: I have "limited" perspectives now? Ha-ha! I'm about as broad and open as can be, since all my information comes from thin air, don't ya think?
  I'm telling ya, I've tried that unlimited perspective crap with mathematics & patterns, and it works for a while, but it folds into itself - just like the "collapse theory" of our own universe, after a while. But, either way, as much as it pains me, I'll check on the "fractal stuff" you mentioned about, at a later date.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no, it contracts and then expands, you're in...i can't tell. try to expand a little bit more, maybe a baby will come out.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if you just described penetration or child birth? WTF?
  I'm not talking about either scenarios, but thanks for the help; geez...... LOL!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a woman so naturally...i meant childbirth.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  watch fractals Obscure, be in on it! be part of the fractal gang, it's the coolest thing to hit the 80s. You're going to love it I promise!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lower brain: mechanizing to agree with 21 (are you italian? you're always calling me ceci)
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cecilia is Italian, yes? Hence, Ceci.
  Me: British and Armenian.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah...my shoes are italian, my genes are from all sorts of weird fractal combinations of Filipina.
  
  I have all sorts of genetic material mixed with filipino from china, india, spain and surprisingly jewish ones from both sides.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
okay who are you and where did you come from. lol.
you're in my head. shew shew.

again, I go back to the adamic concept, longevity because there was no lack of active consciousness/awareness. Therefore the stasis complete and the ability to supersede the need to know because all knowledge -being there- was in order/satisfied/actively doing.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  who are you? did you come from my head and jumped into the other side of manhattan to talk to me?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol. that's what i been trying to find out!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know what would be cool. If you turn out to be my neighbor! ha ha! You hear a six year old girl singing Bananaphone all the time? That's me! (kidding)
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  seriously ADAM=ADAMAH man is soil without the HEY. (which is disturbing. Hashem has two Heys. )because Hey means Behold! Observe! Focus.
  
  (M sound) Mem is also Water, interesting right?
  
  Power Doorway Chaos= ADAM
  also
  Force Doorway Consciousness = ADAM
  or
  Spirit Tongue Consciousness = ADAM
  
  the duality is uncanny. there's Obscure's perspective, and then there's Buddha's.
  
  who will I believe...hmmmmmm.... LOL
  
  It's interesting how the vedic aryans/(ab)brahmins and hebrews defined the concept of MAN.
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Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
he gots it!
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
if only my ex wife only knew that. LOL.
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
if not mistaken, adam the name in Talmud is derived from the four elements of earth, water, fire and the breathe of Elohim.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh....i gets.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A=oxpower/breath of Elohim
  D=poverty, doorway to elevation. key to receiving hence DLT =doorwaytotav, presence of the divine of earth
  M=water/consciousness
  
  I am missing fire though. though I suppose it's the Dalit=4, after the four elements. I dunno.
  
  The name obviously is describing divine consciousness receiver. (and transmitter)
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate the remarks (just kidding), but my transmitter is currently down... ha-ha!
  Okay, I'm now off to check out those "fractal" links that you said enlightened a many in the '80s.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just watched your videos from the links you gave yesterday. That is "fractal stuff"...? I thought of those things when I was 6 years old. Ya know, that would have been in the '80s. LOL!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well now you know, that those things you thought of when you had your full mental faculties up and running is mathematical proof that there is order in the universe.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps... Does this mean I was astoundingly intuitive at age 6, as well? What happened to when you told me about how intuition increases with knowledge? I never believed it, and I knew otherwise, but do you remember saying that?
  Yeah, I was a weird kid that had issues with inter-dimensional beings, seriously. I tried to cheat the system and tried damned hard to remember my transit time from my latest incarnation, and I took hell for it from the entities from other dimensions...LOL! Okay, I'll just go ahead and say that I was just kidding about my last remark - I'm just like everybody else, clueless as ever, since it would only make for my admittance of an insane asylum...then again, it would be a great Sci-Fi flick! Ha-ha! Ahhh, the transit period...one can only hope to remember, ha-ha!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The jokes say a lot. You feel you're giant, no? But there is no proof that you are? Been dreaming of strange dreams, fiery dragons? Maybe even snakes and things like that?wait for it, it will come.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, cool... You mean, at any moment, I'm liable to start dreaming about 3-headed dragons of fury, oversized hissing Cobras of wickedness, nefarious nirvanas of nebular domination, whirlwinds of stellar chaos, and other nifty stuff like that? Alright! It sounds like I'm headed into some hellish creation theories of cosmic collision. Rock on! LOL!
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Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago
"Sorry, the Universe is 'out of order', please use a different entrance. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope you still enjoy your visit."
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Quit spamming the universe with your propaganda; dang, bro! LOL!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! you know I had to.
  Got some quantified -but recycled- tissue paper stick to by shoe.
  It was embarrassing.
  
  how are you OD, Sleep well? I am in a silly mood today.
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  Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Same here; today is full of silliness and I like it!
  No, I'm sleep deprived. Hell, I'm too tired to even poke fun at some of those confused lunatics on the Religion forums. I tried earlier, but shortly lost interest after I realized the combined IQ of the entire chat room only totalled to negative infinity. Oh well, maybe I'll have better luck tomorrow. Ha-ha! Take care; my ass is heading to bed for a couple hours. Oh, I meant to ask before: Does your name "21 days" stand for something or is it a cycle for something? I'm sure I need to read some of your stuff, but let me know; just curious. See ya around cyberspace, bada-bing!
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It takes 21 days to reprogram your subconscious. 21 days of mindfulness is all it takes to change habits that has been there since your dad programmed it in your head when you were three.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  emm, actually, the Twenty One Days is exactly how long it takes to germinate any seed on planet earth and the title of my first published book.
  
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Thats an odd coincidence. I will look for your book!
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