Censorship; corporations biggest offenders?

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   Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years ago

   In an increasingly online world, the vast majority of human conversation is taking place on websites hosted by corporations that have strict censorship policies. Most of these polices are set in place to "protect" their advertising interests, despite the fact that speech is constitutionally protected including pictures, human sexuality and "controversial" topics in a religion dominated society.
   
   How does humanity fight this?
   
   http://www.npr.org/2011/06/23/137348338 … el-so-good
   
   (NOT spam but an NPR piece about censorship)

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      Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      who wants to fight it?
      
      If I own a restaurant, and I don't want people yelling "F**K YOU N*GG**" in my restaurant, then I make it a rule not to yell hate speech in my restaurant.
      
      If you want to yell hate speech, then you don't come to my restaurant.
      
      It's voluntary, and thus not a breech of "free speech"

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         tfboyleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly, this concept isn't very hard to understand, speech is not protected on another individual's property, only on government property (whether a government can legitimately own property is another question entirely. 
         
         If you own property (when I speak of property I do not just mean land), you get to make the rules, and telling someone they can't say something does not infringe on that person's rights.  In fact if the government were to force you to allow him to say whatever he wanted it would be your property rights that were violated.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   I don't see how private companies can be accused of censorship.  Free speech is protected only from government oppression or discrimination based on a protected status (gender, religion etc).
   
   Private websites can set their own rules just like a restaurant or home livingroom can.

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      Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I know they do. That's the point. Censorship doesn't just come from government.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It isn't censorship, which is the point Psycheskinner was making. It is their rules and the member must obey the rules assigned.
         
         Every person must sign/agree to a terms of service. Those who don't bother to read them, then it is their own fault and have no right to scream "censorship".

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         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Censorship isn't a bad thing -- if you don't want to use my website/restaurant/billboard/whatever, then don't. If I own the thing, I get to decide the rules to play by. It is completely VOLUNTARY.
         
         However, restricting free speech IS a bad thing. If the government makes it illegal for anyone anywhere to say something, then that's tyranny because IT'S NOT VOLUNTARY.

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            Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Name an ISP without censorship rules, the terms of service is backed by government power

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               psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So is my right to throw out foul mouthed patrons from my cafe.
               
               The fact private rights are backed by law, doesn't make them government censorship.
               
               By what argument do you think people should not be able to establish conduct requirements in their private clubs?
               
               If you want different rules, you can start your own. Use an off shore server like those pirate sites so even local law doesn't apply.

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               wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you started a website to make some money and the site promptly filled up with spammers and pornography I dare say you would take steps to stop both.
               
               Of course privately owned web sites censor what you may post on their site.  It is the only way they can keep the site they designed and want.  If you don't like it make your own site.  As long as you do not post illegal (stolen, for instance) material you can post what you want to.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Of course it's backed up by government power - name a single industry in the US that IS NOT backed up by government power!!
               
               All contracts are enforced by the government because they claim a MONOPOLY on interpreting contracts and enforcing them.
               
               Like it or not (I don't), law enforcement is a monopoly.
               
               I'm 1000% on board with the implications of what your saying (I'm sure, looking at your uniform, you don't actually think this) -- the government monopoly on interpreting contracts and enforcing laws NEEDS to be abolished.
               
               Let's get some competition in the courts and police.

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   wildernessposted 13 years ago

   How to fight it?  Take your own laptop with a wireless connection to work and use it instead of stealing time and memory from the corporation.  It will keep your porno off their mainframe as well.
   
   Ditto for phone - take your cellphone to work and use it.

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   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   There are also online forums that allow absolutely anything. I tend to avoid them....

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5. 57

   Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years ago

   I'm thinking about the future of a humanity where there is a sizable online public presence. ISPs have a long list of rules that go beyond what the laws require. Censorship becomes a bad thing if your only choices are all in bed with mandatory limiting of expression. Unrestricted access to the global internet is a human right, and a portal with millions of users is not the same as a physical restaurant, it's more like a "private" city, an Ayn Rand libertarian utopia.
   
   I know most of you seem perfectly comfortable with American censorship and may liken what I'm saying to single issues or a desire to engage in "immoral" activities, but that is sort of my point as well. The corporations are deciding our morals and they are decidedly not the same on a global scale.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Stephen, Internet service isn't a right. It's a product offered by a business. If you don't like the way the business does business, then find some other place to do business. If you cannot, then go without.

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         psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Or, just buy a server. Do for yourself what you want others to do for you... see how it turns out.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly.

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            Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Owning a server with an IP address and DNS registry given out by ICAAN is not public access to the internet. I suppose then there needs to be legal movements to make internet access a right.
            
            I don't think you guys understand that I'm not looking at this subject from an individual viewpoint.

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         Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Everybody is already going without a connection moving towards Orwellian ways. The writing is on the walls, even google knows this. Most government around the world are begginign to make moves towards stronger censorship and the corporations are just as guilty. (RIAA, MPAA, Cisco, Nokia, etc)

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            Stephen Hillmannposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Not to mention Google, Microsoft and Yahoo actions in countries like China

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Now you're beginning to sound like a conspiracy theorist and this is where I part ways.

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               tfboyleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I disagree with every point made by Stephen so far except this, though I think I differ slightly.  I hate google because google collects vast amounts of information for the NSA, google is acting as spy for the US government on its own citizens.  Now of course google has no real choice, but it is still a terrible state of the world when government and big business are in bed together, in fact, that is what we call fascism (of course we have had that since FDR so its certainly not new).  In this way it is certainly becoming a little Orwellian, but I would say the warfare state, violation of civil liberties and doublethink are a bit more overtly Orwellian than any concern over "censorship" on the internet (it is important to point out that it isn't the google's of the world to fear about censorship, but the pressure governments put on google to make them censor the people).

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Care to try and prove that?
                  The "Internet" was never originally meant for commerce, consumer or common use. Not tracking the activity online is absurd, if you actually give it any sort of real thought.
                  That's a stretch.

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   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   One point _  Google and Microsoft are identified worldwide as the biggest online collectors of personal information.
   
   Second point _  I think the OP is concerned about censorship closing in with government censorship and news corporations censoring what people are told - and also with censorship in the workplace - it is slowly closing down basic freedoms and people are not even aware of it.

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