How about that little preacher boy!

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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I have been seeing promos on TV for a little kid, and I mean little, he looks about 5 or 6 screaming out on stage about the lord jesus.
I have seen some pretty sick religious crud in my time, but this has got to take the cake!

Just how stupid can it get? We had all those televangelist frauds doing all the "healing", knocking down people on stage, or in Hinn's case whole audiences......now we have an infant ramming his indoctrinated bull*hit at the top of his voice on stage.

America, you are in serious doo doo.
First you nominate a bunch of religious loons to the presidency, now this!
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And lets see...you are right and they are wrong? Do you know what's right. No of course not...not any better than anyone else.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A four year old being used as a televangelist and you are arguing about it?
  Gimme strength!
  
  How sick does it get before the loony liars for jesus pull the plug?????
  Got any kids have you?
  
  Disgusting!
  They should all get 10 years in the slammer. I hope he sues them for millions when he is old enough to think for himself.
  Your comment disgusts me as well. Don't you care about children at all?
  What a heartless response.
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  wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This child is undoubtedly fill to overflowing with the holy spirit, and will bring many lost souls to God. Surely that is a wonderful thing?
  
  The side issue that he will also bring many coppers to the collection plate and be able to support his deadbeat parents is immaterial. God says to honor thy mother and father - buying them a new house and fancy cars is an ideal way to do that; it is God's will.
  
  I don't really think that 10 years is enough though - how about life? Anyone treating a child like that deserves no less.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are right, and I was terribly wrong.
  Life for sure!
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  OutWestposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Earnest will you ever get off your high horse. Rheutorical I know.
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't seen that but it sounds like the same scary exploitive activity that sparked the show called Toddlers and Tiara's. It just seems so wrong to me that some adults want to put children in a position to do and say things that they cannot fully grasp the concept of.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I saw that and could hardly believe my eyes. Making toddlers "seductive"
  
  Who owns this stuff? Probably Murdoch's little group I would guess.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, all the adults are standing around watching the kid saying, "Ah, isn't that cute" while the rest of us are watching saying, "What a shame, those adults are watching that kid going insane and are promoting it."
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  WD Curry lllposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Other than the obvious (to almost anyone) misdirection of an innocent child, this is a prime example of style over substance. The adults who have encouraged this likely believe that this preachingg style is a strong indication of the presence and movement of the Holy Spirit . . . the paragon of Christian expression. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, though. Keep in mind that in the spiritual dimension there is always opposition to true substance. Did Siddhartha (Buddha) intend for people to worship him as if he were a god? Yet they do. Don't let the misunderstanding others make us cynical.
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  Repairguy47posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which bunch of religious loons has been nominated? I thought we could only nominate one religious loon, now we're doing it bunches? Man how things do change.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's a progressive thing. You know, put up one religious loonie who talks in tongues, then put up one a little less loony until you run out of loonies. It will take time and patience though.
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kirstenblogposted 12 years ago
You better not say religion indoctrinates children tho...
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. This kid is not indoctrinated.......much!
  
  An adult who looked about as intellectually aware as Alma Fudd came on with a serious face and said. "He is filled with the holy spirit"
  
  I thought it was a comedy at first, but he was dead serious.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So they're presenting him as some kind of mesiah?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A TV preacher, along the lines of Hinn and the others, only just out of nappies.
  
  This is one child who will be able to sue for many millions when he gets a bit older and sees what they have done to him.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think someone should shout about it to child protection. This is insane.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i am amazed that child protection is not on their asses already. It seems religious nutters can do whatever the hell they like. I am following it up though.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Somebody needs too
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just saw a second clip where he was even younger.
  
  This child is in real danger!
  
  He is surrounded by religious lunatics who should be in straight jackets, not on TV!
  
  He is 4 years old folks!
  
  When do these guys go to jail?
  
  http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44158422/ … sensation/
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WOW so full of hate,have you ever been touched the wrong way by one of those perverted priest ?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So I gather you support an innocent child being turned in to a side show freak?
  
  You make me want to throw up. Got any children?
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  6 kids all grown 18 grankids
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Congratulations! Have you brainwashed all of them to be religious yet?
  Kids have to be indoctrinated into religion you know.
  
  They are far too smart to buy the god thing without it, even when they still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Earnest, I have been trying really really hard to stay out of these threads, because it's so upsetting to me, but I had to see what this one was about.
  
  First--I didn't see the clip, but I've heard about this little boy, and I do NOT like it at all.
  
  But--and this is what really bothered me enough to post, but I say in the nicest way I can--I am sooooo tired of seeing you guys make remarks like you said above.
  
  You don't believe in God, then fine, but please...you do NOT know every kid out there, so you do NOT know that just because they believe in God, that they have been indoctrinated. Or that they are not smart because they do.
  
  Ever since I was a child, I have had a faith in God. I did not come from a religious family--we never went inside of a church unless it was for a wedding or funeral. My parents believed in God, but we never talked about it, and neither did anyone else in my extended family.
  
  For me it was, and still is, just...there. No one taught it to me, no one indoctrinated me, no one forced anything religious down my throat.
  
  I still don't belong to organized religion, and never will, and you will never see me force my views on anyone.
  
  Nor will I taunt and make fun of those who don't believe. It's hurtful to be at the receiving end of those taunts even if they aren't personally directed at you, so I can't imagine purposely doing it to someone myself.
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  Davidsonofjesieposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I mean no harm just wonder were the hate comes from
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did you see the video? This child started his indoctrination while still in nappies!
  Some human beings are disgusting in the way they deal with their children, and this is a prime example of insanity.
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  WD Curry lllposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. They are just misgiuded in how to point others to the Messiah.
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kirstenblogposted 12 years ago
ever see the kid rappin for God?
Funny and sad at the same time
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years ago
...that's just bad/sad...he's been coached - must have gone to 'tv preacher' skooool...he even has the hanky to wipe his forehead....wish i could see the writing/pics (in crayon) in his book that he's reading from?.....omg

...so i guess ma and pa have found a new source of income - bet they have already bought new digs...they've probably quit their day jobs already...yeah...it's abuse...just like those other reality tv shows.....

..it's just more reality crap N.A. TV....

...his parents need to change the channel and/or prevent access to it

geez, wonder what nat'l geographic is up to?...
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ...ma and pa seriously need medical attention -if they go to jail, they'll just do the same crap...take advantage of folks....
  
  ...cuz that's all they are doing - control, abuse of a vulnerable and impressionable person
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good question! I will be trying to find out what NatGeo is up to.
  
  I am still having difficulty believing the parents could do this, and amazed that NatGeo would run it.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i doubt if nat'l geo. is going to support what they are doing...it's probably a show about 'poor' families and how they make a living...then they will show some other poor family in India making rugs or selling stuff on the streets
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  or it could be a show about 'crazy people'......
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds at least likely. I watch NatGeo a lot, and have not seen them support abuse before.
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Emile Rposted 12 years ago
Ernest. You need to just go for broke and get yourself more channels on your satellite. Those basic packages never have anything worth watching on them.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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Virgil Newsomeposted 12 years ago
Isa_5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Earnest, you can say you are concerned about the little guy all you want, but your posts show your hatred. Your hatred for God and the followers of God has blinded you and made you violent.

Mat_11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You poor soul! Does it hurt so much to hear the truth? You don't have the conviction to believe what you say you believe. Two of us know that
  At least.
  
  You and me.
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  kirstenblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This warning could easily be leveled against the religions created around the book your quote comes from. Those institutions have become every bit as corrupt as any other institution with a little power, its inevitable really. When seen that way, its not hard to understand and sympathize with Earn's anger.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What blows my mind is the attitude displayed towards this poor little child by the religiously impaired parents.
  
  My protagonist may not know that I just finished my nightly ritual of telling three little ones their bedtime stories, after spending the day with them. I have every reason to be upset by this as would any responsible adult!
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  nightwork4posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  his post shows that like many others, he is sick of seeing kids brainwashed by religious nuts. to even think a 5 or 6 year old has the knowledge to be a preacher just goes to prove how brainwashing is part of religion. even the so-called son of god wasn't a preacher at that age according to the bible. but by having a child preach, it will make all the real religious nuts stand up and yell about the glory of god. yes, this is sickening to say the least.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you. I can see you feel the same way. It is a sick thing to do to a child.
  He has fervour without understanding what it is that created it.
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aguasilverposted 12 years ago
Ok, so I watched this and listened to what was asked and replied and I agree that below the age of puberty most everyone is too young to make a commitment to the Lord (as in they will need to reappraise their commitment later in life normally).

I have seen preachers sons who followed 'Daddy' into the faith turn bad at the first opportunity, there is a saying God has no Grandchildren, which refers to the fact that we all need to come to God personally, nobody is born a believer (as Earnest states) but all need to come alone.

So in effect it matters not whether you are 'indoctrinated' (as Earnest calls it) which I would tend to say 'inspired or influenced' by what you see, or whether you meet God later in life, nobody comes to God that was not called and the calling can be early, as in Samuel, who was taken to Eli the Priest at 2-3 years of age, to be trained in the priesthood.

Samuel went forward to be one of the great men of God.

What intrigued me was that this little boy was seen as soooooo very badly treated and exploited, when there are stacks of other little children being exploited on national TV and nobody has seen fit to ask that they be taken by child protection.

What I saw was a small child who mimicked his father, with great relish, who may or may not follow his father into the ministry.

If he does follow his father (and grandfather) into the ministry, he will either do it as an anointed servant of God, or as a committed servant of Churchianity.

What is it to anybody else?

The vitriol seems excessive and I suspect it is because someone is teaching their child to preach, rather than sing in the X Factor, or dance in seductive clothing, that is causing the offence.

Just two minutes on YouTube produced the following, obviously they were missed by those complaining about this child preacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ita_Cz0y … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR2F4Apb … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPR-Qeqp … re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6aSgtHI … re=related

For the record, although my child accompanied me to church, (as did all our church family children), they were allowed to play in another room, having no 'indoctrination' beyond a simple bible story.

When my son was 12 years old, he asked to be baptised, like all the other kids, I refused him permission and told him to come back the other side of puberty.

My child went to a state boarding school at 13 years of age, and was indoctrinated into secular thinking, taught how to smoke, drink, chase girls and roll joints, lie, steal and generally be a thoroughly modern secular child.

With no influence from me he decided to come to faith when he was 19 years of age, and left one year later to work with disadvantaged children in Brooklyn and Flatbush. Last month they had 65 shootings on or near his 'patch'.

So please do not throw the abused child comment my way, I was totally prepared for my son to follow in my footsteps and be a user for 40 years like I was before I came to faith, he chose to be sensible and get right with God early in life, which is great, even if it does mean he is no longer with me.

If God calls you, it matters not how old you may be.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Funny thing that. My youngest heathen has never taken up any of those vices, has a great education and is already in his own business at 22.

Two hubbers have already mentioned the exploitation of children in other ways, so I think your outlook on that is somewhat jaded if not religiously motivated.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody is saying that your son, a secular child (you called him a heathen, not me)is less capable of growing up well, nor vice versa, indeed far from 'religiously motivated' I would say that my post pointed out the downfalls I have recognised of leading children into 'relationships' with Christ before they are called, especially when they are brought into the church by their parents, and when the parents are pastors or in leadership.
  
  I also had already seen that others had mentioned the secular (one presumes) exploited children, but I was referring to YOUR vitriol, which I suspect was 'religiously motivated' in reverse.
  
  Bad things happen to children all over the place, I think this little guy will possibly reject that whole thing he is doing now, when he gets old enough to see his own videos, unless he really is called by God, in which case he has just started a few years earlier than most.
  
  My 22 year old preaches every day and easily surpasses me in reaching out to preach the gospel, and he is far more devoted to studying scripture than I am, and prays every morning for his days work to be guided by God, i.e. he is much more devoted to service than I have ever been, and I admit that sometimes he sounds heavy even to me, but we are all different and despite him living in a danger zone, I have no fear for his safety as he is truly walking with the Lord.
  
  No doubt in time he will be less zealous, but for now, the Lord has him in training and he is into heavy duty study and prayer, his choice, nobody forcing him, certainly not me and not by observing me at all.
  
  Stop trying to score points, yes it's sad that this kids being exposed to TV and stuff, as it's also bad other kids get exposed, but if I had to chose what my kid got exposed to, I would choose God over the X Factor every time
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Ok Tamcor, that seems reasonable. I am of the opinion that it is not as you say it is, and your family or associations were more religious than you remember.

The child is being used as a product in a way that is humiliating in my view.

His "ability" is his age. He is cute and vulnerable and behaving like an adult megalomaniac of the Hinn ilk.
It is psychologically very damaging to do this to any child in any way.
That Is my sincere belief. If you know me at all, you know my motive when it comes to children.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  TamCor, thank you and others who have made valid points. I apologise. I have over spoken in anger.
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  TamCorposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And thank YOU for that, Earnest--I accept your apology, and hope you accept mine if I have offended you in any way. When away from these religious threads, I really enjoy talking with you--I guess that's why it makes it doubly hard to visit these...
  
  I do promise you that my childhood was as I said--I wouldn't mislead you in the hopes of making any points here. Obviously, I can't prove it, but I know Tom can back me up, lol.
  
  And I do agree that what they are allowing this little guy to do is wrong...I feel like he is just being exploited by his parents, like too many other children in other areas are these days...thinking about those pageant kids for one example...
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then I will take you at your word.
  
  You have given me no reason to think you would lie to me, that has not been your modus operandi, and track record matters a lot in my way of seeing things.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Well regardless of what you believe my motivation is, you must admit I have good credentials as far as participation in the development of the children in my care, which does support my argument pretty well.
I am very pleased that your son is motivated and obviously courageous, as it is no small job to complicate the bible until it fits a religion.
(Just pokin fun Aqua)
What is more important in my mind is that you support him in whatever he chooses to do.
He may even make it all the way and become an avid non-believer!
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There, that's much better, gentle chiding with no rant!
  
  I'd support my children whatever they did, it's what parents do and however they turn out I love them... that's something we share without arguments.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We agree then on another point.
  
  I think that is the second time in 2 years................ gee this is almost a friendship! ...................."and it's goodnight from him" to borrow from "The Two Ronnies."
  
  sleep well those who are in that time zone allotted for sleeping.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WOW.... we should be careful or folk will think one of us is backsliding one way or the other!
  
  I get to stay up for a bit, being 4 hours behind you, so this is where I can normally put a blasting post on and know you can't retaliate until tomorrow.
  
  But in view of the circumstances, I'll just say sweet dreams and see you tomorrow.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's tomorrow. \
  
  Well not for you yet, but I thought I may start the day early and tell you your grandmother wears army boots before you get a chance to reply!
  I should ave about 4 hours of free exposure.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Earnest, had to do some work this morning.... hey! how did you know that my Grandma wore army boots, shucks, I thought we had kept that a secret! now you go and tell the world.
  
  Hello sonny! Come here and I'll kick your butt!
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Davidsonofjesie I apologise for my outburst. It was uncalled for.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Ahh...... here he is again on another anti - believer trip ,One of the great Knights of the square table who loves every spiritual entity in the world except the Christians and there kids! Go get um Earnest wheres your buddy Cagsil? Got any evangelists down under there Earnests or are they all in America?
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Hey Earnests , did you notice that more people have unfollowed this rant ,than you have those of who sidle up to you?.....Hmmmmm?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey ahorseback,
  
  Of course most of the religious are going to stay out of this thread, for the pure and simple fact that they don't want to face the fact of what they are doing to their children.
  
  Indoctrination of children in the manner in which Earnest is talking about is completely absurd and should be considered child abuse.
  
  If a child know about a parents belief and has knowledge of the bible(or any other religious book) before they are age 10, and they know it inside and out, is in fact hideous.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Spot on Cags.
  This child is only four. and is not a great talent, he is megalomanic, dictating the "truth" to adults and a television audience.
  It's nice to see so many moderate believers agree.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No I don't bother with what others do with any of the threads I start, or any of the threads at all.
  
  Why would I do that? People unfollow lot's of threads no doubt. Did you compare the unfollows with the other threads too?
  
  I didn't see people "sidling up" with me, I saw people expressing their views, you know, like in a forum.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
My point Gentlemen , Is "HERE WE GO AGAIN" , do we talk about 'toddlers and tieras ' or the idiousy of our education system teaching these kids against parental wishes ? 'Teenage and pregnant ' Nooo, the Idiots of 'Jersey shore ', noooo we rant about Christian kids who may be born to be evangelists for all we know. And what else "Them Christians " ......Just calling yu guys out again thets all! Peace.....:-}
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm happy to talk about any exploitation of children, I just made breakfast for three little ones and have a great interest in their safety and welfare, but this type of abuse really caught my attention as it was so strange. A little boy of four, explaining the meaning of life to adults on stage is pretty unique don't you think?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did this child suddenly wake up one day and say to his parents 'I am full of the holy ghost and it is my vocation in life to become a TV preacher' No, of course he didn't. It appears that there's more than just a litlle projection from his parents. Once a child reaches adulthood and is able to make a mature and thoughtful decision about the religion he wishes to follow,if any, than it is fine. However, it's a parents job to nurture their children, not shove them towards celebrity of a religious nature and expose them to all kinds of undue pressures. Children should be protected, not exploited, and it appears that this child is being exploited by his own parents. It's not the people that are pointing this out who are guilty, but the people who choose to ignore it.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Of course its wrong ! To Brainwash a child to anything . I agree on that , however there are those who are natural born to love a particular calling. Whether that be an evangelist or saving the gorilla's ! President Obama wanted to be president as a child , whats wrong with that picture. If this child wants to truely follow this lifestyle, so what ? If the kid wants to be John Dillinger thats another story. Seems to me there are far better rants to jump on than this! Peace .....
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Whether he is, or is not, natural born to this calling is not really the question. If he is, then he has got the rest of his life to pursue this as an adult. The point I'm trying to make, is that he's not an adult, he's a child. He should be allowed to be a child, but he's dealing with the glare of the TV cameras and fame. He's too young for this, he should be allowed his childhood until he's able to pursue what he wants to pursue as an adult.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Natural born ! , Micheal Jackson comes to mind , Donnie and Marie , Child actors are a dime a dozen , Shirley Temple , ....on and on . But this forum post is about a Christian kid! Interesting.....thats not okay? We can pick and choose the child or the influence , but ones the same as the other . Rock and roll or God , its all wrong ! Before adulthood ? Or is it just the anti-god police talking here .
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think either are ok. Whether religious or otherwise, a kid should be allowed to be a kid before taking on adult pressures.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
Cagsil I disagree respectfully. What is 'Hidious' about a ten year old with say a ...photographic memory ,he must be to know the bible inside and out , heres one , near everyday you see ten year old girls dressed like hookers , wearing makeup and skin tights , does that bother you guys too.....or little bantam hocky players calling the ref's jerks and flipping the bird....or pounding another kid into the ice like the big boys .....And you guys are perturbed by a kid reading a bible..... Hmmmmm. Ever heard of the "decline in common sense " everyone is raving about nowadays ?
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
G'Day Aqua, that is one fine lookin Granma!

I can see the family resemblance.... is she christian too?
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Was she a Christian?...... she thought the Puritans were backsliding heretics!
  
  No real similarity, my eyes are blue!
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK, now that's just downright clever humour Aqua....... what happened?
  
  Did you give up religion?
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I just agree with Granny! - those Puritans were backsliding heretics.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well I can agree with that. Leftist pinko commies the lot of em!
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WD Curry lllposted 12 years ago
Other than the obvious (to almost anyone) misdirection of an innocent child, this is a prime example of style over substance. The adults who have encouraged this likely believe that this preachingg style is a strong indication of the presence and movement of the Holy Spirit . . . the paragon of Christian expression. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, though. Keep in mind that in the spiritual dimension there is always opposition to true substance. Did Siddhartha (Buddha) intend for people to worship him as if he were a god? Yet they do. Don't let the misunderstanding others make us cynical.
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ahorsebackposted 12 years ago
WD , Great point ! Moderation in action AND interpreation . This feed is about our interpretation! As are most !
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Here is something else to interpret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X043xVrQBr8
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Or perhaps it's only bad if it is a Muslim child making the pronouncements.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2667.htm
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aguasilverposted 12 years ago
In line with the topic.... what comments do you have on this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … tment.html

Anybody think this should have been allowed?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well It is interesting that they seem to all be pretty religious in that family. I don't have an opinion apart from it seems like they are happy enough with the decisions they have made.
  I hope they're psychological diagnosis was correct, as in a family like that, they would be sitting ducks for a lawsuit otherwise.
  
  I see you get this as child abuse, but the story does not seem to support that. Did I miss something?
  Thanks for the link aqua, it was somewhat interesting, and a fair link to include.
  Maybe we will see some other opinions as well.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How is your link in line with the topic? Indoctrination of religion is not the same as a gender identity disorder.
  
  To imply it is, is absurd beyond comprehension.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There we are Aqua, another opinion. A fairly direct one, and true as far as I can see too.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's called abuse, that's the connection!
  
  You secularists have indicated that people allowing their children to get close with God before they reached some mythical age (apparently best decided by a secularist, probably a social worker or liberal judge) should be counted as child abuse, whereas two lesbians indoctrinating a child to have a gender change seems to be acceptable.
  
  The child preacher can easily discard his religion if he chooses later in life, whereas this child will forever be stuck with their decision.
  
  If anybody cannot see that this is abuse, you have spent too long trying to marginalise Christians in the forums to see reality from deluded and misguided anti Christian prejudice.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  John - i'm on the fence on this article....i don't know enough about the issue to be able to provide a good and informed comment. I do know that sometimes parents have made the wrong choices when children have been very young in relation to gender because of genetalia at birth (could be considered physical defects). So....my initial thoughts are - what's the rush? ..maintain the psych. help and family support but as for the 'physical intervention', I'm not sure about - but...again, what's the rush? keeps coming to mind. (not sure if physical intervention describes this properly but the words make sense to me right now).
  
  And...this looks like comparing 'apples to oranges' in relation to the original post.
  
  My 2 cents.....peace!
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Well Aqua I don't get from the story that the child was indoctrinated. That seems to be up in the air, unless you take the point of view that a different sexuality is not possible without indoctrination, but that would be a religious view, and these parents although religious don't seem to follow that thinking.

I have grave concerns for any child who has a sex change, but that is why we have psychologists and doctors, specialists, to protect the child's interests.

If the child is a girl within him/herself, then they have been good parents and got the best outcome for the child. If not, then the parents and their psychologist and any others involved have committed child abuse, but allowing a child to be who they are is exactly the opposite in my view.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Earnest,
  
  Taking that religious view, one would say that God made us man and woman, so whilst I understand the intersex argument (and discussed it recently with BaileyBear at length)I do maintain that sexually (physically) we are defined shortly after conception.
  
  Mentally and sexually we may have confusion, but gender; except in very rare instances, which would count(IMO)as birth defects, is a pre defined thing, i.e. you are either equipped as a male, or a female physically.
  
  You can guess that transgender is not a factor in my vocabulary!
  
  So my point is that if you consider that a child is too young to chose Christ below a certain age, you should also agree that having a sex change, below a certain age, should also be frowned upon.
  
  I guess that if these lesbians are wrong, they will still be happy, because he will surely love girls and be in the confused state of being considered a lesbian, whereas if he really does get fully into the whole girl aspect, he will be considered a homosexual for wanting boys, and possibly very upset when he realises that he cannot bear children.... do you think he will find a loving husband in those circumstances?
  
  If the guy was beyond puberty, say 18 years old, when legally he can make that sort of decision in Europe, maybe 21 in the USA (why could he decide to have a sex change below that age when he cannot decide to have a drink?)then it's totally his business, right now, it's a political thing, and I doubt any doctor would risk offending two lesbians who insist that their indoctrinated boy child REALLY wants to have an irreversible sex change.
  
  If we are to have equality, lets keep to a level playing field.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
I disagree Aqua, I think that transgender needs to be in all our vocabularies.

Sciences of body and mind requires it as we learn more about the horror some children feel in being born in to the "wrong" body.

Many such people seem to lead good happy productive lives after intervention.

I don't know about this particular case, all we have is some stills and an article which does not in itself agree with your claim of abuse, the abuse idea seems to be a part of a belief system rather than just reading what is written and thinking it through.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK Earnest, we can agree to differ, not about transgender, I grant you that this could possibly have some credibility as we enter the end times, it would be normal for humanity to be affected by the circumstances.
  
  But I will agree to differ that whatever the case in the reported article, such decisions should be left until legal majority has been reached, and you know something, I would also suggest to ANY parent; that children can surely be educated about religion,(and hopefully in comparative religion and no religion aspects) but should NOT be encouraged to make any commitment until legal majority has been reached.
  
  Some things are life changing decisions, which require self determination tempered with experience to be correctly made, in my book, religion is one of them, as is becoming a pop star or changing your sex to suit your parents or adolescent feelings, which may change in time, or when you meet that 'special person'.
  
  Anyhow, another relatively polite discussion, wow, things are looking up.
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earnestshubposted 12 years ago
Aqua, I don't have enough knowledge about the subject to argue it strongly, perhaps legalities and other considerations are important considering the age of the child.

I hope for the best for all kids, but the world is a big place where even culture has an influence on how they are treated.
It is common in these situations to appoint a child advocate, but I know that does not always work either.
I have no good answers on this.

I don't believe in "end times"
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