Abortion and faith

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   matama ellieposted 12 years ago

   Is abortion entirely wrong? What happens when a child,or a woman has been defiled or raped?What about when the life of a mother is in danger?Is an embryo alive? At what point does abortion become murder?Should women be given the pros and cons of abortion before they begin the procedure?What do you think?

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      Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I can answer those questions without even getting into any specific religion.
      
      Regarding the question off abortion in the case of rape, you have to consider whether or not it's generally acceptable to execute a child for the father's crime.
      
      If the mother's life is in danger from continuing a pregnancy, that might be a mitigating factor. But then, that's not the same as an abortion done for convenience. The purpose of an elective abortion is to kill, plain and simple. The purpose of early induction (such as if the mother has preeclampsia that isn't responding to other treatments) is to save what life can be saved, and the death of the fetus is an unintended but sometimes sadly unavoidable side-effect.
      
      Biologically, yes, an embryo is alive.
      
      Abortion may not legally count as murder unless it has been done without the mother's consent- except in some countries where forced abortion is legal and used to enforce population control. Ethically, I would venture to say that abortion becomes murder when the fetus' death is exactly what is intended.
      
      And since full disclosure and informed consent are essential patient rights regardless of the procedure, of course anyone considering an abortion should be fully informed of the pros and cons.
      
      And I don't see what any of this has to do with religion, as while some religions hold these views, some don't. Some atheists are pro-life as well.

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      Knight6posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      each living person has the right to chose what happens to their body if a womans life is endanger or not if the act of getting pregant was on purpose or some other reason it is the womans right to make their own choice and that choice should be informed if you believe in god or not it is something which SHOULD not become a factor all human life is important but the question is and should only be what is better for me.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I agree. It's a personal decision for a woman to decide what she is willing to do with her own body.
         
         As long as slavery remains against the law in this country, people should let women have the freedom to make their own choices. and stop attempting to shove their idea of right and wrong into the arena of another person's life.

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   kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years ago

   It's odd how this thread topic keeps being started again and nothing makes sense but common sense.  Let's leave each other be
   
   just a thought...........

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      Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, sounds like the far right in America will not accept "no" for an answer.

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         kimberlyslyricsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         sad

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            Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It is sad Kimmy, there will always be those that wish to enforce their beliefs on others. Because 'God' told them to.

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   Valerie Fposted 12 years ago

   Well, there's no point in believing in God if one never lets that faith inform her on decisions, especially those that are matters of life or death. That being said, I wonder if people don't find it supremely selfish to think the only question that should matter is, "What would be better for me?"

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      landscapeartistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      @Valerie F  I do understand where you are going with your answer. I believe in God and even attended church.  I read through the New Testament one year.  But, if I let faith and the church inform me on decisions like whether to have my baby or keep it or whatever, I would not have  my two girls today. I would not have my sweet loving grandchildren.  There are some things that are best left to us as individuals to decide.  In those situations the ONLY question that matters is "What would be better for me?"

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   Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago

   This is such an old, beat-to-death argument.
   
   Why don't you just ask: Is it okay for religious groups to make the rules for everyone else?
   
   At least that cuts to the chase.

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      Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But that's assuming that opposition to abortion is only a religious view, when it's clearly not the case.

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         Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What are some "clearly" non-religious arguments against abortion? Preferably something significant and culturally relevant, not some conscripted concept with value only for making a semantic point (i.e. increased cancer risk or something like that. Everything is a cancer risk but that doesn't stop any other medical procedures or human behaviors, etc.)

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            MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I personally would never get an abortion and those reasons have nothing to do with religion... so I guess if I felt the need to convince everyone to live as I do, it also would have nothing to do with religion.
            
            *winces and ducks* If held to my personal beliefs, once I am pregnant the child in my uterus is a child.  I don't kill my children.  Nothing about religion... all about how I feel as a mother.
            
            With that said, I also don't tell other people how to live their lives.  If you don't have the same feeling of "This is a child, not a group of cells" then chances are there are going to be some serious issues ahead if you do choose to have the child.  In that case, abortion might be the right choice for you.

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            Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            First of all, you don't need to be religious to believe a fetus is a person.
            
            You don't need to believe in the existence of the soul to believe a fetus is equally entitled to life as anyone else. In fact, all arguments that the fetus is not a person hinge on belief in some magical point when the body is "ensouled" or otherwise becomes a person. And opinions vary wildly on when that point is. After birth at the first breath of air, at crowning, when the mother first feels the baby kick, when the first EEG waves can be detected, or some arbitrary point when someone decides the fetus is sentient enough.
            
            The hard fact is that a human fetus fits all the biological criteria for being a living organism of the species homo sapiens. Ethical (but still strictly humanistic) considerations include universal entitlement to certain human rights and the intolerance of any just society for killing humans who've done no wrong.
            
            Historical and legal precedent also shows that every time a society brands some living humans as anything less than full persons, the result is nothing but atrocity, and the casual disposal of millions of human lives per year as if they were garbage should give any person of conscience, whether religious or not, pause.
            
            There is a stronger case for atheists to be pro-life when we consider the possibility of there being no afterlife. The only way to take everything away from someone is to take their life. And the only way to deprive someone of every chance to ever experience anything good in life is to do it as early as possible.

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   landscapeartistposted 12 years ago

   I do think that women should be advised on the pros and cons of abortion before they make that final decision to end the life growing inside of them.  I do believe that the embryo is alive, but there is more to consider than just the embryo.  We need to consider the physical and emotional state of the soon-to-be mother.  It all has to be her decision.. 
   Each individual's idea is just that.  It's their idea and opinion.  It shouldn't be pushed onto others.  Some people feel that if they keep pressing their ideas onto others that pretty soon those others will begin to think and feel the same as they do.  But, isn't that thought process more of a brainwashing effect?
   I don't think that abortion is entirely wrong.  I do think that the way we deal with issues such as this is handled entirely wrong.  I have never heard tell and any sort of councelling for pregnant women who are considering abortion. 
   This is just an example of one situation.  I knew a woman years ago who separated from her husband and found out that she had got pregnant right before they split.  She told him in the hopes that they may reconcile.  They reconciled but he didn't want another child hanging around. So, he would hold her down and tell her how worthless she was and that she needed to end her pregnancy.  He did that every day for two weeks straight until she agreed to end the pregnancy.  If councelling had been available to her at the time, she may have been able to find the strength to stand up to him.

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      Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You've never heard of counseling for women considering abortion? It's been available all over- for decades in some places. I'm surprised she didn't get any.

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         Emerson01posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Generally when women are in a mental state where they will let someone do something like the above situation, they are not in the mental state to get help. It's usually someone else who needs to push them to it.

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            Valerie Fposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's why thorough counseling should be required for everyone seeking abortion. And if the pro-choice crowd is concerned about counseling posing an undue burden on pregnant women in need, imagine the burden of being sent back to an abusive situation or dealing with uresolved stresses that might be discovered in counseling.

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         landscapeartistposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't know at the time that she was being treated that way by her husband and neither did her own family.  Her mother was in the house on some of the occasions and didn't even know. 
         I wish I had known because then I could have been there for her as a friend.  Maybe that support could have helped make the difference.

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      kerrygposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Abortion providers are supposed to screen for domestic abuse cases like your friend, and every legal provider I've ever heard of offers free counseling (or a referral to someone who does) for anyone in an abusive situation. If she successfully concealed the abuse from her family and friends, she may also have successfully concealed it from them.

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