hub ownership?

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   HemperorsClosetposted 12 years ago

   Howdy,
   
   If the contents of our hubs is our property, as hubpages reassures us it is, then why is there such strangling posting restrictions as to choke the breath from the spring blooms of free speech?
   ,
   
   
   

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      WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You own all the content. You can remove it whenever you want.
      
      However the rules are in your best interest - they help make sure your content is high quality and increases your chances of being ranked in Google (so you earn money). They also decrease the chance of your content appearing spammy to search engines.
      
      Also, many of the rules are created by Adsense, one of the affiliates here. Adsense has very strict rules so Hubpages has to enforce those rules so you keep your Adsense account!

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      1. 56

         HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That is all well and good, and i understand it. Some how my time here is paralleling the recent history of Hemp itself. One of the sources i sited for a picture just happened to offer legal medical patience and caregivers a means. I didn't even really realize it, i was only giving credit to the source from where i got the image. The hub was published and up for nearly a week when it was all of a sudden pulled and My website, where we sell tshirts, has been added to the prohibited sites list... I'd scarcely believe it, it's so topsy turvy, but it's sadly true. I'd take the google ads off the hub if that's the issue, but then if my site is there it's sited as being too promotional... catch 22 and a stinky pile...

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         1. 88

            WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's only overly promotional if you have more than TWO links to a single site per hub.
            
            Unfortunately they have to enforce the rules - if they start picking and choosing in one case they'll have to start doing it in others, so instead they enforce a blanket rule to protect their butts (and yours.)
            
            And as for making money - from memory they only started to break even before Panda and then took a beating from Panda in Feb '11. They have big overheads - they employ over 20 staff, have all the server costs and a big office in SF. And they are, after all, a business.

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               relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Putting a single link to the exact same domain on every Hub you have is also overly-promotional.  It's won't trip the automated filters until you get a really large Hub pool going but a human review will catch it.

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                  WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know where the thread is but I believe that rule has been removed? I remember there were a few threads about the overly promotional rules and I remember Marisa Wright talking about it.

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                  1. 56

                     HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     well it prohibited the publication of my first hub for nearly a week. The admins just approved it for republishing a day or so before this whole fiasco...

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                        WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Which was likely for the drug issue not the overly promotional issue.

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                           HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           i had two links and a text reference, so it very well may have been in the 'overly promotional' category. i changed it, and improved the hub quality quite a bit, and they re-approved it...

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            2. 56

               HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               i understand business. i'm a business man. i don't link to the same page in every hub, my site has industry information and other resources beyond our products.

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            3. 56

               HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               i've done a little research, for i'm not quite the backwards nobody some might like to think me.
               i have no idea what they might be paying their employees, but based on all evidence, if they have only just made a profit there may be some shenanigans going on. With an calculated daily ad revenue between $8,000-$13,000, recently, they have taken a hit from late 2010 early 2011 when they were making almost twice that. Even if only 40% of that goes to hubpages, as was mentioned somewhere here, it's still quite a bit to blow through everyday. i understand ad revenue can fluctuate, but that is a conservative range, and after more than 7 years on the web, you'd think they'd have figured out a thing or two.
               
               If huge profits are the goal, and your product is digital, then maybe locating one's business in an area known for it's high costs of living is a choice with consequences that need to be accepted, but should those consequences be simply subdivided and passed on to the user who results in the business' revenue? A website will run just as well from anywhere.
               
               Maybe they're getting ripped off by their web host or something, i'd be interested in an explanation. i know they monitor this stuff and they're free to chime in any time.
               
               i'm not making any demands, i'd just like to get an explanation. Something more than 'it's explained at the top of the hub' which was the only response from the admins. Is my site somehow now associated with the offensive site in some database somewhere? If so, why? If so, how can it do proved to be an false association? These are simple questions. i don't need an essay, just a few short sentences. Is that so hard?

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               1. 86

                  Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The rule is that we are not allowed to link to "prohibited sites".  So it's a link in your Hub somewhere to some other site.  If you click the link at the top of your Hub, it will tell you which site they regard as a "prohibited site".
                  
                  If you feel the site shouldn't be prohibited, email them and say why.  Moderators are human, they do make mistakes.  I had one Hub unpublished for a prohibited site, queried it and they agreed it wasn't prohibited at all.
                  
                  But if it's your site and it's about hemp, I'd say they would regard that as a prohibited subject because it would fall under the category of drugs.

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   2. 56

      HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If i were here trying to sell seeds of pipes or papers or whatever i'd leave and seek a more proper market, but i sell shirts... and wallets and belts and such... It's difficult to understand.

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         WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         It's anything promoting drugs.
         
         That's like saying "I run a site about anorexia & bulimia but since I don't provide items to help you get skinny, it's not my fault if you end up dying from severe eating disorders."

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            HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            but i sell shirts... and wallets and belts and such... It's difficult to understand.

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               HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               and i promote the hemp industry, an established industry in at least 30 of the worlds top economies. except the united states...

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               1. 88

                  WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes. In some countries they have child brides and still kill babies at birth. I'm sorry but that's a silly argument. Just because it's a tradition or has a long standing history isn't a reason it's right.
                  
                  And I'm out of this one. Obviously you don't get the point that YOU'RE A SMALL FISH IN A BIG SEA.

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                     HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     but i have a big voice

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                     HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     and it's at least as silly to compair the hemp industry to child brides or murder... WOW that's hardcore. talk about hyperbole...

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                     HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     and nobody cares about the little man, eh? the backbone of all civilizations, let alone economies... it's fine.

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      HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      and i do apologize if my words appear terse, it's just frustrating taking on a taboo...

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         WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think you get it. It's NOT Hubpages taboo. It's Adsense and other affiliates.
         
         Go take it up with them, or make your own website and find affiliates that let you write about or link to whatever you want!

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         1. 56

            HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            i have adsence ads on my site... they don't seem to mind. and again, there isn't anything on the site that violates the rules. i talk about how hemp can replace petroleum and how it's a durable soft fiber and such... i've made a fair amount of effort to specifically separate myself from other phenotypes that would be problematic.

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2. 73

   relacheposted 12 years ago

   Writing Hubs is like going to a country club to play tennis.  You still have to meet the dress code, follow the rules for the game and comport yourself in a "proper" fashion (whatever that means) or they'll ask you to leave.
   
   If you don't like the rules, they don't mind at all if you take your racquet and go home to hit the ball against the wall of your garage.

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   1. 56

      HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      hahaha Yeah, the hubpages execs making (i assume) lots of money off our work, and they still like to keep their sphincters and hands tightly closed. I don't mind the rules. My complaint is that my site has been prohibited, AGAINST the code of the hubpages rules. (i just saw that hubpages has now unpublished all of my hubs. i'm not going down without speaking my mind)
      
      this is the original violation report:
      Gambling, Alcohol, Tobacco, or Weapons
      
      This Hub promotes gambling, the sales of alcohol or tobacco (including e-cigarettes), sale of weapons, and/or sales of prescription or illegal drugs, drug paraphernalia, or provides instructional information about or detailed, graphic depictions of illegal activities. Please remove the content or links promoting these subjects, and submit this Hub for republication. It will be reviewed, and republished if the Hub is in compliance with our Terms of Use.
      
      and the other hubs site this:
      This Hub has violated at least one of our Terms of Use. The Hub may contain:
      
          Content about, linking to, or receiving traffic from traffic exchanges
          Sales or distribution of coursework or student essays
          Hacking/cracking content
          Promotion of automated marketing tools or programs
          Content regarding programs which compensate users for clicking ads or offers, performing searches, surfing websites, posting in forums, or reading emails
          Requests for ad clicks
          Content promoting replicas of designer goods
          Pages whose content or URL could confuse users into thinking it is associated with Google due to the misuse of logos, trademarks or other brand features
          Links to phishing sites or sites that host malware
          Links to a site associated with repeated rules violations
      
      
      
      Now, so far as i can tell, the only violation i've commited is letting the admins know that i wasn't happy with the situation.(oh gOd, a free thinker! runnn!
      
      i'd post a link to my site so you can see for yourself that we aren't in violation, but that would REALLY PO the mods i bet, and i want you to be able to read these, my likely parting words to the hubpages community.

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         relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I actually make a very comfortable chunk of my living from my Hubs and make sure I am playing well within the bounds at all times.  I keep myself well-refreshed on the rules and changing guidelines of both HubPages and AdSense constantly.  And I try to imagine the most conservative interpretation of those rules too.
         
         Griping in the forums might make you feel better, but it won't heal your situation with admin.  Talk it out with them.  State your case in the most civil terms possible.  I've never seen righteous indignation resolve something with them.  Most often it leads to a permanent ban.

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         1. 56

            HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            i have taken it up with the admins as civily as i can. i patiently explained that the image source link would be removed without complaint, but that i couldn't see any reason to prohibit my site. and they unpublished my hubs... i would LOVE to be a valuable contributing member of the hub community, but that is hard to justify when acknowledging that i have hemp products available is in violation and all the quality writing i've contributed is removed... i'm really seeking to understand. rhetoric doesn't help me....

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         HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         and i have a feeling that if i went and talked to my garage, it would understand me better than the hub mods....   and i don't even have a garage..
         
         i mean, if i lose my adsense account who's fault would that be except mine? i don't think i'd miss the pennies. there are LOTS of high quality web 2.0 sites to post to, the high and mighty hubmods can live their high and mighty power games and i'll go else where. It's useful to know that fascism still exists though.

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            WryLiltposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Uh you DO realise that Hubpages displays their own Adsense adverts for 40% of the impressions, right?

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               HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               yes

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               1. 78

                  Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I support legalizing marijuana and I buy hemp clothing and fabric whenever I can. That said, I see your comments above as non-productive. Ranting in a forum doesn't do anyone any good. Least of all you. I started reading this forum by sympathizing with you, and after reading your ranting, have ended up sympathizing with HP admin for having to deal with you.

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                     HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I appreciate your comment, though i didn't start this forum post looking for sympathy, i started it looking for answers. Maybe i didn't explain the situation well enough, but it seems pretty straight forward. i posted hubs about the historical and potential current utilization of hemp, the causes and conditions leading to the current prohibition (of growing hemp in the US), and the wider spreading benefits of ending that prohibition (of growing hemp in the US). At the bottom of he hubs i had a single link to my site, where people can get even more information and also support the hemp industry. The hubs (all of them) where pulled, not because of the content, but because i had sourced an image from a site that apparently sells seeds, and, not realizing that (or that it would be such a big deal) gave the source for the image in the hub out of respect. That in an of itself would be an issue, as i'm more than willing to remove the source reference, as i realize that the image is somewhat ubiquitous. The problem is, that for some reason, My site, where we sell no such controversial products, has apparently been misidentified as the site that sells the seeds, resulting in my store being banned from hubpages. The fact that the hubs themselves where and are just fine is evidenced by their being republished with no alteration other than linking them to my manta profile instead of directly to my money site (to use web 2.0 jargon).

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         2. 86

            Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's not just your Adsense account.  HubPages is also held responsible if it allows members to post "illegal" content - and if HP lost its Adsense account, the site would be finished,and we'd all lose out.
            
            That's why you're not getting a lot of sympathy from other Hubbers - because by breaking the rules, you risk our earning potential just as much as your own.
            
            Trust me, we ALL think the rules are crazy.  The Adsense policy is so prudish, you'd think it was written by somebody's 90-year-old maiden aunt (on second thoughts, I had a maiden aunt and she was far more wicked than anyone I ever knew...). But if we want to make money here, we have to abide by those rules.
            
            You sound like you have a particular topic (hemp) and something worthwhile to say about it. Why don't you start your own blog about it?  That way, you can have total freedom to say anything you want.

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3. 87

   IzzyMposted 12 years ago

   It's simple. Just don't write about cannabis, hemp, marijuana call it what you will.
   I've recently removed a hub I had about how to grow legal cannabis outdoors.
   
   I lost 20,000 views in the process, but it wasn't making me money, it was free info, because for the longest time it had no ads.
   
   It had been up about 6 months before HP removed the ads.
   
   I was really upset at the time, because it was one of my (early) top earners, but at then end of the day, I  understood that what I write reflects on the whole site.
   
   HP could have lost their Adsense account through my hub, and the whole site would have closed....for a poxy 20,000 views??
   
   Just avoid any topic that is even close to iffy on Adsense rules.
   
   If your site sells T-shirts, write a hub about promotional T-shirts, just be very careful. There  are ways round everything if you are looking for a backlink

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   1. 56

      HemperorsClosetposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Unless you were writing for non Americans, there is no such thing as growing 'legal' Cannabis (unfortunately). That is one of the things i mention, and something all of the nation's farmers desperate for a valuable crop to plant. It would be difficult for me not to write about hemp, given that my profile name is [The] Hemperor's Closet, my whole point in being here is to write about hemp. And, again, i wouldn't care two glances if my hubs didn't have ads on them. I've gone the tangible products route to self employment instead of the purely linguistic.

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         Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I do sympathize with you in your frustration dealing with TPTB.  But let's face the facts, fairness does not have a great deal of bearing on today's internet rules and regulations.  Content writing sites are terrified of Google and its continuing demands.  Until the playing field is leveled--not suggesting it will be, of course--the Big G cares not if the small guys are hurt by their experiments.
         
         
                                                      

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4. 56

   HemperorsClosetposted 12 years ago

   that's probably the most valuable comment so far. Thanks.

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