Hub with 9 Views in a Day (and 35 in a Month) Suddenly Not Featured!!!

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   mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years ago

   How is it that a hub on the 'common mistakes new hubbers make' can suddenly become not featured, in spite of the fact it has had 9 views in a day, 24 views in 7 days and 35 views in the last 30 days? I only replied to comments on it both 42 hours ago and 22 hours ago (from two different hubbers). Something is very wrong here!

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Seems like I've had a couple idled that were getting about the same 30-35 views per month.  You and I both may have been right on the edge of passing.

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         mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have hubs with less traffic that remain 'featured', but this one even had comments in the last 42 hours from different people. If Ktrapp is correct that it could be based on the traffic being internal as opposed to external I am really disgusted as this is no indicator of quality whatsoever.

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      moonlakeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I don't blame you. There is no excuse to idle your hubs if you’re getting traffic. I would think this also hurts HubPages to have those visitors not showing up on a hub loses money for them doesn't it? I don't know much about how money is paid out here.  I removed three hubs this week and plan on removing more. I can see no matter what I do it's not working. I wish I had the views you had on your hub on some of my hubs. I like Hubpages but I am so sick of redoing hubs.

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      brakel2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Misty - I know you do a lot to help new hubbers. It is pitiful to idle a hub that has internal views of sufficient number that can help other hubbers.  Someday, maybe we will understand the system, just as it changes.    ))))     Hugs.

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   ktrappposted 11 years ago

   I just noticed in another thread, Simone lists reasons why a Hub that gets traffic might be idled:
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/110051

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      mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No, this isn't it, I checked out both the links you posted and Simone's comments. Neither of them applied in my case so still none the wiser unless Wilderness is correct in his assumption.  I would equally be totally disgusted with HP basing whether the hub is featured or not on whether traffic is internal or external as opposed to whether it is visited or commented on from whatever source.

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         ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         She mentions in the second thread that the external search traffic "requirement" having to do with engagement is very low, a couple visits over a two month period from search engines. ("...we're talking around a couple of search traffic views over a period around two months")
         
         So if your specific Hub is getting some external traffic from search engines then I guess the source of your traffic is not the cause of it becoming un-featured. But I'm guessing that a Hub written more for an internal audience may not get much search traffic, if any.

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            mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Can't really answer this because as far as I can tell I have had about 7 views external to HP in the last 30 days, but it seems to me 'featured' should be about quality, not traffic source regardless. Simone (lovely as she is) is also a great 'spin doctor' for HP, so now I never know what to think.

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               ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Well, hopefully you get an answer. At least you can cross the source of the traffic off your list. I can't imagine what else it could be.

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                  mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Fingers Crossed

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               Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Misty, both Derek and Simone have said repeatedly said they acknowledge that low traffic does not necessarily mean low quality, and that idling a Hub is not a reflection on its quality.  Derek has even admitted that they're aware some quality Hubs will get idled, but they view that as acceptable collateral damage in their current situation (which is that idling for low traffic is the only measure they can afford).
               
               I've been perplexed recently because people are saying Hubs with traffic are getting idled, in spite of Derek's clear assertion that if an existing Hub gets idled, it's 99% certain it's due to low traffic.  It doesn't make sense for an existing Hub to be idled for quality, because HP have also said that existing Hubs do not go through QAP unless you edit them - so there's no mechanism for them to be idled for quality.
               
               If it's external traffic, not internal traffic, that's being measured, then I suspect that would solve the puzzle.  I've written several Hubs for other Hubbers and they've all been idled, in spite of continuing to get visits and comments from other Hubbers.

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                  EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It would be one explanation I suppose. It also has an interesting "side effect", which is that hubs written by hubbers to help other hubbers will eventually become an extinct species. Meaning that on HP itself, the only sources of information about the site will be official ones.
                  
                  In fact, the idling scheme as a whole would seem to favour "everyday" topics at the expense of quirky, minority-interest ones (which don't get searched as often). In other words, HP is evolving into something blander and less interesting. Personally I think that's a shame.

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                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Not necessarily.  I've got a couple of hubs written specifically for other other hubbers.  They've gone idle: OK, let them stay that way.  Virtually all their traffic is coming from my profile anyway and they're on the carousel where they will be seen by hubbers looking there - probably the most common method of reading other hubbers work.
                     
                     I think the evolution is a shame, too, but recognize it's being driven by Google.  Maybe down the road a different method can be utilized that still permits those minority interest hubs, as well as keeping the poetry, creative writing, photo hubs, etc.  I applaud HP's efforts in allowing those things, and if google and financial constraints change that it will be a real shame.

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                        EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        But overall, the number of "by hubbers for hubbers" hubs will surely decrease, since once such hubs go idle then most people will either (a) unpublish them or (b) fail to edit their settings so that idled hubs are visible on their profile.

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Probably.  There's a lot of sentiment that an idled hub is a ruined hub going around.  False IMO, and the question of hubber views shows that well - my "hubber" hubs still get just as much traffic as they ever did, it just isn't much whether idled or not.
                           
                           Too, I don't have but a couple, while others have a large number.  I can (and did) put mine on the carousel thinking that only hubbers will ever see that carousel so that's what should be there, but you can't do that for 20 hubs.
                           
                           Maybe HP could create a topic for that, one that is immune to idling?  If necessary, one that will be featured but also carry the noindex tag while being searchable through the HP search function?  I'd surely hate to see those hubs go bye, bye as they were extremely useful to me when starting out here.

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            3. 89

               Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yay! I'm a lovely spin doctor!
               
               But yeah, it's search traffic in this case. I checked.
               
               We're not trying to be evil by not saying what numbers people have to hit.
               1. We don't want people to game the system by asking their friends to search for their Hubs to meet the quota
               2. We're going to change that number/time to something more reasonable shortly
               
               I'm really sorry for the inconvenience! This is not a lie. If I could make that update I just mentioned happen myself, I could, but I can't, because I have very poor coding skills and this system is dern complicated. T____T

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                  MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  

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                  aa liteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  

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3. 92

   ktrappposted 11 years ago

   Here's another thread where Simone discusses reasons why a Hub may become non-featured.
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/108906
   
   She mentions engagement, which she states factors in search traffic. That makes we wonder if your Hub, written specifically for Hubbers, lost featured status because its traffic is mostly internal, not coming from search engines.

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4. 0

   EmpressFelicityposted 11 years ago

   I've been thinking about the whole idling scenario, and I am wondering if it's anything to do with "freshness". From what I gather, Google cites content freshness as one of its criteria for deciding whether a site is "worthy" of high ranking/appearance at the top of the SERPs.
   
   So to achieve this magic freshness factor, HP has set up its idling algorithm to "kill" a certain percentage of hubs (from a search point of view), knowing that people will always write new ones.
   
   Of course, a lot of the new hubs are spam or duplicates, but hey. And a lot of the older members have now become hugely reluctant to write any new hubs. But that's not a problem (from HP's point of view), because new people will always come along, write a handful of hubs and earn the site a few $$. When these newbies become demotivated in turn because their hubs have been idled, they drift off to greener pastures. But HP gets to keep their money, because it's way under the $50 payout limit.
   
   Another thing: there is the question of how important freshness really is in Google terms - sure it might be *one* of the criteria that Google uses, but it's not the only one. Plenty of old material (with a lifespan measured in *decades*) still appears at the top of the search results.

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5. 74

   cheaptrickposted 11 years ago

   Hi Misty.Ya know,when it comes to computers I'm not the brightest bulb in the socket...Hmmm,that was a bit weird...Anyway,up until a few months ago I saw lots of nice[for me]numbers on my stats page.Then in the blink of an eye...well,the last time this many zeros were in one place was Pearl Harbor...the results were the same though.These days I just come here to hub hop.

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6. 86

   IzzyMposted 11 years ago

   As many of you know, my account got Google-slapped 18 months ago and traffic has never recovered. So I started new subdomains. Only one of them really took off. It had about 30 hubs and every single one of them got Google views every day.
   
   It just got its first idled hub a couple of weeks ago, on a hub that was getting 35 views a week.
   
   All the views were internal, probably not from other hubbers, but from other successful hubs within the subdomain where it was was extensively interlinked.
   
   It simply does not get Google traffic. That caused me to look closely at all the hubs I have written on that subdomain since the idling feature was introduced, and none of the 'new ones' (most are at least a month old) get Google traffic. They get traffic from Bing and Yahoo, and internally, but not Google.
   
   Has the 'noindex' tag that was slapped on these hubs when newly published somehow affected future Google traffic?
   
   Anyone else noticed this?

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      aa liteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      New hubs I wrote last month, get google traffic.  I struck lucky with one of them and it gets a lot of G-traffic every day.  So what's happening to you isn't universal.
      
      When idling was first introduced, my new hubs would not get indexed for weeks, until I manually submitted them in WMTools.  But now I don't have to do that, and they get indexed normally once the pending is removed.  It still seems like different subs are being treated differently.
      
      Of course I am wearing a white hat.  I strongly recommend you put one on your avatar!

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         IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Sounds like a great idea.
         How do I do that? I've got Irfanview as a graphics program. Can I do it in that?

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            aa liteposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I did it in photoshop.  Honestly, if you want email me your pic and I'll put a hat on it.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If you have an existing hub idled while getting 1000+ views per month I'd have to say you've either found a glitch somehow or the first reported older hub being idled for quality reasons (unlikely).
      
      I might be useful to bring it to HP's attention as a possible glitch that should be looked at.

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         rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         From what I have read throughout the various forum threads, it's more likely that the hub was idled for lack of search traffic.  Izzy posts that it does not receive Google traffic.  I don't know the topic of her hub, but if it's only receiving internal traffic, it sounds like this is now a reason for idling a hub.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            True - that is a third possibility.  I'd still report it as a glitch though - if the automatics are idling anything with that many views it needs tweaking.  I can't believe that HP would want that kind of result.

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               rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               There are now so many threads and various staff responses on the subject that it's hard to find the post that I read which seems to indicate that internal views only may be a reason for idling hubs.  HP isn't concerned about internal views, they want outside traffic to our hubs.  That's my interpretation..  I may be wrong.

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                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I do remember seeing something about that, although only once, and it could very well be the problem.  I still think that if it's idling a hub with 1,000 views in a month it needs changed as an unwanted result just as the time for pending has needed tweaked and worked on.

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                     rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     This may be where engagement comes into the equation.. it might be helpful to check analytics to note the average time on page. 
                     
                     I agree that it needs to be looked at closer to see what the exact reason is for idling a hub with 100+ monthly internal views.  They are either quick views to check out a link or someone wanting to read more on the topic.  Analytics could help determine what's going on with the hub.
                     
                     (I don't see that Izzy mentioned the hub received 1000+ internal monthly views.  She mentioned 35 weekly views.)

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                  ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The link to a forum that I posted earlier (4th post on first page) may be the staff response you're thinking of regarding search traffic, but like you said, there are so many threads on this topic. However, Simone does verify in this thread that search traffic can impact a Hub's featured status, and that they're making adjustments to the quantity soon.

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         IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No, it was not getting 1000 views, it was getting 35 a week, which is roughly 150 views a month.
         
         It is certainly the highest-trafficked hub I have had go idle, but they were not search engine views. They weren't strictly internal traffic either, the views did come from outside, via other hubs where I had linked this one to. Very few hubbers read those hubs, as I don't socialise with the username.
         
         I can only assume that HP views, no matter whether it is your friends or even because of HP's internal onsite promotion, will not save a hub from being idled.
         
         The traffic must come directly from search engines.
         
         I would really appreciate of HP could introduce something that meant hubs were checked for quality before publication, rather than risking Google seeing them with the noindex tag. I'm sure it is damaging in some way.
         
         Every single hub on this secondary subdomain was successful, until idling and the addition of the 'noindex' tag came in.
         
         Now there is no motivation to publish any more hubs, unless just for purely personal fun.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, Izzy - my error.  I read that as 35 per day for some stupid reason.
            
            It doesn't make much difference, though.  Whether 150 per month or 1,000 it's still far beyond anything that has been reported and something I'd sure like to keep around.

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               IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Same hub after editing (slightly) is now getting 60+ views a week instead of 35, but still none from Google, so I expect it to slip into idle again soon.
               
               Unless being about 40 or 50 is its saving grace. Who knows anymore?
               
               I am probably the biggest 'collaterally damaged' hubber on HP. I have lost so many hubs now. All that work, for what?
               
               I give up, I really do. I have spent hours trying to weed out the hubs HP have said they do not want on their site, and reported them, and most remain published.
               
               Mine have mostly gone.
               
               It is probably time I started writing that book I always wanted to write. Except I still have no storyline to start with

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Izzy, just to get the creative juices flowing:
                  
                  http://www.writing-world.com/romance/starters.shtml
                  
                  Obviously doesn't have to be romance though.

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                  Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I feel for you and others who have tried to write their way out of the hole, Izzy.  This is why I chose to just wait for things to get better or to totally fail.  There's too much BS flying around to put much faith in it, and by those who are merely guessing at best.  Writers on the Storm!

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7. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 11 years ago

   The QAP is evolving and we will make more tweaks soon.  The forum responses are likely to be out of date soon, so it's best to stay up to date with the learning center entry on the Quality Assessment Process.
   
   If there are common questions, we will add the information there.

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      Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Paul,
      
      That's really not a solution.   Do you think it's reasonable to tell Hubbers, "you'll have to go and check the Learning Centre once a week just in case we've added something?" 
      
      What's wrong with a sticky thread on the forums?

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   WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

   I've had recourse to hubs at times in order to understand how to do something on HP. I never found them on someone's profile. Rarely, I found them through the HP search function, but this has rather limited functionality and does not always give the desired results. Most of the time, I found these hubs through a Google search. Now, the only truly useful option to find such information is no longer viable.

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9. 60

   Nights Dreamposted 11 years ago

   One thing I have learned. Hopefully, this applies to the topic: self-promoting. Even hubs I have written with lower page views are still featured. The ones that are not, I still keep. One way to maintain at least a small amount of traffic is promoting individual hubs vs. overall. When I used to promote the link to my profile, it had only a few page hits. The reason: people would not go through the list. When I started promoting links to individual hubs, the pages hits increased. I hope this helps.

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10. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 11 years ago

    We will continue to announce changes.  The forums only reach a small group of active Hubbers.  The FAQ and Learning Center are the best source of up to date information for common questions, but we will give a heads up that there has been an update on major changes.

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       Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I appreciate that - but Hubbers who are not active on the forums will also have no idea they're supposed to check the Learning Centre and FAQ regularly for updates, so it's still not a solution.
       
       How often do you suppose an established Hubber goes back and reads the Learning Center or the FAQ again? You go back and have a look if you need to get an answer to a specific question, but there is no reason to otherwise.  Besides, the Learning Center is now so vast, I've had other Hubbers come to me for help because they tell me finding an answer in the Learning Center is like looking for a needle in a haystack (perhaps that needs to be looked at).
       
       The original observation was that multiple threads are being created in the forums, all covering the same question, and that useful answers from staff are lost in the confusion  A sticky thread for the topic would help with that.  For other Hubbers, what about an update in the newsletter?

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11. 89

    mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years ago

    Thanks to everyone (so far) for your responses (especially Simone). Will look forward to the system changing so that the level of views required to avoid hubs being idled (not featured) is adjusted to allow for internal views or more realistic figures in general.
    
    Thanks to Brakel2 as well for your very kind comment

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12. 72

    brakel2posted 11 years ago

    Does QAP do the idling?  If you edit a hub with low traffic, are you shooting self in the foot?  Why is this issue so full of necessary consequences?  I want to have fun!!

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       wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, you might be shooting yourself in the foot.  At least if your hub can't pass the low requirements of the QAP - something I can't imagine you having a problem with.  We haven't really seen the hubs that the QAP is rejecting, but judging by what it is letting through they must be crappy indeed.

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          MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          You couldn't imagine.
          
          *shudders*
          
          And remember that a hub with some weaknesses can still barely inch by if it's got strengths in other areas enough to carry it.
          
          Just like an average hub can just barely fail for a serious weakness.
          
          What are getting idled now are pretty bad.  And sadly there are a lot of really bad ones TO idle.  I have a feeling the wailing and gnashing of teeth would commence as soon as HP raised their minimum bar by even one point average. If they raised it to straight 6's then it would decimate whole accounts...
          
          I would seriously, seriously advise looking over the stellar guidelines to everybody.

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             wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             I don't have to imagine - thinking back to the hopper a year or two ago, they can't be any worse than some of what was seen then. Like the three someone posted in a different thread; maybe 50 words, one photo and the title (a senseless collection of keywords) repeated again at the end.
             
             You do raise an interesting point, though - if this program works and actually helps HP grow traffic, is the next step to raise the bar and do it all over again?
             
             And what wailing and gnashing are we going to hear and see when HP starts in on the backlog of existing hubs?  PE says that time is getting pretty close...

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                MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I would guess that time is very close indeed.
                
                And I would guess that problem accounts would be the ones going through first and that whole accounts are going to be idled.
                
                And as soon as they stumble across an active troubled account I would guess that it's going to be pretty damn bad in the forums. 
                
                And since by the time they raise the bar they will already have up to date QAP on every hub, I imagine it will look like an atom bomb hit the forums.

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                   wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   I think you're right about picking accounts, at least at first.  PE did comment that those three hubs were already on their radar and it's entirely possible that they already have an extensive list to look at.  It wouldn't be hard to do, with their access to account and traffic per hub numbers.

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                      MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Actually, my guess is they are starting with accounts that have been repeatedly flagged for quality.
                      
                      Once again, just supposition.

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                         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         And probably a good guess.  If they're removed that might quiet the masses somewhat while getting rid of the junk.  A double result is always nice.
                         
                         I don't envy you Turkers - you may find yourself look at nothing but pure junk for a while.   Depressing, that would be.

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                            MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                            Nah, there will always be new hubs published and some of them are actually really really good.  What I've noticed in the last four or so months is that the quality of the good, and even the average, is getting much better while the quality of the bad is pretty much the same.

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                               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                               Good!  Maybe we're getting a name out there, or maybe lots of hubbers are putting a little more effort into it.  Whatever the reason, that has a good ring to it.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I am not sure if QAP causes the 'Idling' as I believe this is automated based on traffic, traffic sources and goodness knows what else!  Editing a hub will cause it go through QAP again of course (which is not a great incentive to edit unless you have an idled hub that you know does not deserve to be categorised as such).

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    Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

    Somewhere the birds are singing,
    
    Somewhere the people shout,
    
    But there is no joy in Hubville.
    
    Cause the QAP has struck out.

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    brakel2posted 11 years ago

    I mean do the low traffic automatic idling that staff now says they do.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Not sure I understand what you are asking Brakel2 (if you are asking the question back to my comment).

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       Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       The low traffic automatic idling is just an automated thing.

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