Atheists should be anarchists

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   innersmiffposted 10 years ago

   Both religion and the state argue that they are the ultimate moral barometer,  omnipotent, the law above all laws and are allowed to break their own laws because . . . they say so!
   
   If you find religion repugnant, why aren't you an anarchist? The state is based on flimsier pretences, and is far more dangerous - at least you aren't forced to be religious in the modern world.

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   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   The state is based on pooling resources and providing roads, school, firefighters and a way to keep the peace.  I find that extremely tangible and immediate.
   
   Also the State is seen as imperfect and thus can be changed, whereas God is not.

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      innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The state is based on stealing resources - this is the central presumption of the state that is never challenged. People don't need the threat of violence to be persuaded to pool resources to provide services.

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         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Tell that to Somalia.  I would rather have cops, courts, schools, hospitals and road funded by tax rather than some sporadic charity from whoever feels like it.

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            innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Did you know that Somalia is safer, healthier and more prosperous since statelessness arrived there?

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               psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I don't see how that makes the horrendous standard of living there seem attractive.
               
               It is like saying, pets are clearly terrible for your health, I know a man who was eaten by his pet tiger.
               
               Good states are good, bad states are bad, having no state at all is always bad.
               
               In any case the analogy with religion is fallacious.  The state actually exists and has tangible effects on my life.  Whether I believe in it or not.

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                  Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Religion has tangible effects on your life whether you believe in it or not!
                  
                  Conservatives Christians want to institute a theocracy in the United States, and radical Islam believes in terrorism.
                  
                  I'd say those both affect you, tangibly.

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                  innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not saying Somalia is attractive, I'm simply pointing out that citing it as evidence of the failure of anarchism is absurd considering the generally poor state of affairs in central Africa anyway. 10-15 countries in Africa are poorer and have less quality of life than Somalia. It's a non-argument, so you're going to have to do better. Besides, the anarchist claim is not that anarchism will create an instant utopia, but that the state can only make things worse.
                  
                  The state doesn't really exist in the form it claims to: it claims to be a representative of the peoples' will, yet needs aggression and theft to sustain itself, therefore contradicting its claim. All a government is is people with guns.

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                     John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     http://www.voanews.com/content/somalia- … 12895.html
                     
                     And who comes to the rescue? Why government of course!

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                        innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Ah yes, compared to the rest of Africa, which is completely disease-free of course 

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   Sooner28posted 10 years ago

   I think psyche makes a good theoretical point about the fact that the state can theoretically be changed, whereas God cannot.
   
   But hasn't God changed?  People's understanding of God keeps changing.  Just recently the Pope said not to judge gay priests, but historically the Catholic Church has not been a friend of gay people.
   
   Perhaps God can change, when enough of his followers begin to change their views.  Protestant chuches are now much less likely to preach against homosexuality and science.  It's because millenials are the future, and they are being completely alienated by such ridiculous nonsense.  One thing my generation gets right, we don't put up with bigotry.
   
   Anyway, I think your analogy is pretty good.  The state claims moral authority above everyone else, and if you disagree with the state's moral authority, you go to prison and/or are killed, assuming you take any action the state doesn't like (even non-violent protesters are often arrested).
   
   So the State is kind of like God.  Disagree with God's "moral authority," and you go to hell!  I'm an anarchist in my mind, but my emotions still haven't ridden me of the fear that without a state people would go insane (more than they already do), though countries that have given up God are the most peaceful.  Perhaps that's how it would be with people who didn't want a state.
   
   This is just me musing.
   
   You should also read Bakunin's "God and the State" if you haven't already.

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      innersmiffposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't but I'm familiar with his thesis.
      
      What about the point that the state is a more dangerous religion than any other? Do you agree?

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         Sooner28posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Is Switzerland or Norway more dangerous than radical islam?  Hard to say for sure on that one.
         
         Looking at states in the aggregate though, I think the state is more dangerous than religion.

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