All About Indoctrination:

1. 78

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   It seems some people do not mind indoctrination. Some do. Thoes who do not mind it, seem to inflict it upon others. Some who do mind it, avoid it all costs and protect their children from it.
   
   What is it?
   When and why is it utilized by some...
   And so feared by others?

   replyreport
   1. 78

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Indoctrination:
      verb
      "teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." Dictionary
      
      "Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine). It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma. The term is closely linked to socialization; in common discourse, indoctrination is often associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning." Wikipedia

      replyreport
      1. 78

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I guess I am really looking for the viable option. Who can explain socialization as mentioned here?
         
         "...while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning." Wikipedia

         replyreport
   2. 45

      Ericdierkerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Kathryn,
      It was the dawn of commercial Internet. I was a GIS (Global Internet Strategist) It was 1:30 am local time and raining like a waterfall when our DC 10 landed. I was whipped up and taken to a Hotel. We were welcome but unwelcome in this Communist country we had been at war with.
      My twenty meetings and five lectures and five speeches were pre-approved. My message was clear to bring this underdeveloped nation into the brink of this century. Education is Marketing and Marketing is Education. Today the country is part of every international organization of note and thriving in free enterprise. in-Doctrination is sometimes worthy.

      replyreport
      1. 78

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         But, you were not on a mission to cram it down any ones else's throat or expect anyone to accept the information you were providing without explaining the reasons, whys and wherefores as to how the info would be vital / beneficial!
         Right?

         replyreport
         1. 45

            Ericdierkerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Yes and No. The mission was to teach them how to do it in a free society way. Good marketing is both and education and an indoctrination. They can co-exist depending on the receiver.

            replyreport
   3. 58

      Jeramiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Here I go making up definitions ....
        I've always thought there were two basic types of indoctrination.
      1st.    as with a very young child; concerning an issue which the child has no interest in the subject matter or has no opinion what so ever of their own. Having them repeatedly recite as fact something they didn't readily agree with until they believed it to be true.
         Every parent does this in some way shape or form. In many instances this process begins while potty training. Who has not indoctrinated a child concerning running while clutching a knife or fork in their hand.  We indoctrinate our little boys and girls concerning their natural sexual urges.  Who hasn't told a 4 or 5 year old boy to quit playing with themselves.
          point I'm making is that indoctrination upon young minds is a natural occurring process.
      But as the child grows up, instead of calling what we do indoctrination, we call it  influencing then to make better choices. 
        I've had several wife's who attempted to indoctrinate me into bringing them flowers and/or candy or some kind of present on every holiday (real and imagined). She thought it right to do so and I disagreed.
      We never did agree to disagree.
      Being indoctrinated can be a good thing as much as a bad thing. 
        However,   indoctrination done properly never leaves the person feeling mentally tied down but on the launch pad open to new discoveries.
      When the two year old child being properly indoctrinated to never cross the street unattended grows up, they should not be afraid to cross the street without mommy watching.
      
         In summation ...  Indoctrination can be a good thing when we know what it was intended for, and know it wasn't   Written in Stone  Just my opinion.
      serving someone food for thought  can be considered by some to be indoctrination. Planting a seed for thought is the same only in slow motion. Sometimes it takes years before it grows or it doesn't.

      replyreport
2. 78

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   "True beliefs, as long as they remain, are a fine thing and all they do is good, but they are not willing to remain long, and they escape from a man's mind so that they are not worth much until one ties them down by giving an account of the reason why. After they are tied down, in the first place they become knowledge, and then they remain in place. That is why knowledge differs from correct opinion and knowledge differs from correct opinion in being tied down." Socrates in Plato's Meno.
   But he goes on to reason:
   "Correct opinion is …neither inferior to knowledge nor less useful…"

   replyreport
3. 78

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   We, (parents, teachers, pastors, adults in charge, ) can provide children certain truths without indoctrinating them. How is this done?
   1. By not forcing blind acceptance. We must "tie down beliefs" by giving an account of the reason behind them.
   2. By not "cramming it down their throats" We can instruct according to what we believe, offer information and inspire learning.
   3. We can provide options and choices within the environment by way of books, movies and learning materials.
   Right?

   replyreport
4. 78

   Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years ago

   Thank you for not answering. I figured it out myself. I hope this query will help someone. You are welcome.

   replyreport
5. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   Indoctrination seems like a four-letter word around here
   Since you haven't closed the door of opportunity to chime in; I'm chiming.
   So many feel that it is absolutely wrong to teach ones own child their beliefs. But isn't that what we all do?
   I have so much to say on the subject and if allowed, I'd like to say.
   Gimme a sec. Gotta collect my thoughts.

   replyreport
   1. 78

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I've been waiting… thank You!  Perhaps you might like to consider my conclusion and tell me what you think about it?
      Repeating:
      We, (parents, teachers, pastors, adults in charge, ) can provide children certain truths without indoctrinating them. How is this done?
      
      1. By not forcing blind acceptance. We must "tie down beliefs" by giving an account of the reason behind them.
      2. By not "cramming it down their throats" We can instruct according to what we believe, offer information and inspire learning.
      3. We can provide options and choices within the environment by way of books, movies and learning materials.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         My fathers must have had your list.
         My grandma was very lenient with her family. "It don't take all that" was her response to the rules of the Church of God in Christ when i was coming up: no movies, no pants on ur girls, no secular music, no parties with dancing, no make-up, no, no, no.
         You have great points here. Seems familiar.

         replyreport
         1. 78

            Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Oh… well, that is a whole other dimension: the dimension of appropriate/ valid boundaries!

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Exactly! My grandma was holy. But she was SMART wit it.

               replyreport
6. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   I think everyone knows that I was born going to "service". My parents and grandparents were all devout Christians. They felt they taught us in the way that we should go. And their religion calls upon it.
   However, I was never taught to "blindly accept without questioning." Nor "not to critically examine." What do people think bible study is but question and answer sessions about scripture and our belief system with hows and whys included??? When I came to the table with faith-shaking questions, I received answers. For that part of it where our understanding fails, I have great peace. God knows the answer...
   I have critically examined the words of Jesus over and over again. They check out, in my opinion.
   People assume that since I believe in God (instead of believing in man) I could not have possibly thought this thing over enough to their satisfaction. They assume that critical thoughts about the god I serve undoubtedly lead to the BELIEF that he could not possibly exist under the circumstances we have now. They think they've seen/heard everything.
   But the often heard, "we don't know" from Scientists; is more credible because "at least they've done some thinking for sure.
   In my opinion people make a choice regarding what does/doesn't make sense. No one knows how/when the world was constructed. It is ALL imagination and then the formulation of hypothetical inquires;  then tests composed by who knows, machines calibrated by who knows, results gathered and scrutinized by who knows, reports typed out by who knows, then a few names with a lot of letters on the study. We BELIEVE in that process because we are so familiar with...we are so familiar...uh...nevermind.
   I know Jesus. No doubt.
   Indoctrination had nothing to do with it. My questions were answered.

   replyreport
   1. 78

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      So the above principles were naturally in motion.  You were lucky. You were with people who made sense and treated you with respect. Thank you for a wonderful response.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. I really had a great bunch of rearers. They "churched me to death" but our home was peaceful. Our bunch was loving and patient ('cept my dad) but he just liked his peace QUIETLY and he REALLY meant that... lol

         replyreport
7. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   A further note Kathryn:
   Is it possible to become secularly indoctrinated? I think we all teach our kids what we think; if by actions alone.
   This phenomenon is about teaching to not question; not critically think. Could, say...an atheist indoctrinate their views.
   Seem highly possible to me.

   replyreport
   1. 78

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I would say Indoctrination is taboo for both theism and atheism. I would say the options and choices should be made available for both atheism and... roll the drums…theism.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I guess the main point of my question was in consideration of the fact that the last time I had this conversation, indoctrination was not possible for atheist views because people feel as if atheism is not a belief system. But to me, they just BELIEVE the opposite. They state "no way is that God logical"' sounds like belief to me...

         replyreport
         1. 78

            Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I agree. That is all it is. Of course, belief with reason becomes knowledge. And this goes both ways as well!
            Why do we do this Miss C? Because we are spreading our beliefs whch we have reason to believe. We are sharing our *reason* hoping others can partake in the joy true understanding brings.

            replyreport
            1. 60

               Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Love is the reason we do this Miss Kathryn.
               The love of God will leave the 99 sheep if just one is trapped in a ditch.
               He said, "tell them..." (and that's another reason). Lol

               replyreport
               1. 78

                  Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  ...either that or we are addicted to the internet… augh!

                  replyreport
                  1. 60

                     Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, well...

                     replyreport
8. 69

   AshtonFireflyposted 9 years ago

   Has your attempt to spread your beliefs on the internet been fruitful?

   replyreport
   1. 78

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That is an excellent question.  Let me think… I would say positively nn.. ye.. nnn  (I must be honest: I must be honest... )
      
      
                            no.
      
      But, I will tell you something else that is true…
      I learn a lot!  I really do.  And you contribute much, AshtonFiefly, for sure!!

      replyreport
      1. 69

         AshtonFireflyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for being honest. That wasn't a loaded question btw; I was just genuinely curious.
         
         I honestly have never had someone say to me: you know what, you're right! I'm gonna change the way I think! I really don't think it's possible to change people's minds about ANYthing simply through forum discussion.
         
         I think all it does is give people food for thought. And sometimes that's just as effective.
         
         thanks for saying that. That's nice of you.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Critically thinking, I take it that your attempt to spread your NONbelief has not been so fruitful???

            replyreport
            1. 69

               AshtonFireflyposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I'm not attempting to spread it.

               replyreport
   2. 60

      Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      For me, tremendously! Thanks!
      I have learned so much. And I have seen much growth. I am so grateful!!!

      replyreport