Is Ferguson Just a Ferguson Problem?
Here are some previous Forum comments made by an apologist for Ferguson prior to the DOJ report:
"... reasonable and necessary police action."
".. After all, the outcries were just that - unsubstantiated claims and outright lies without any basis in fact. Or is that the part you like - that the public lies to hang a cop?"
Talk to the hand! Now let go ... and let God!
I am not surprised at the recent findings by the DOJ. Yes, Michael Brown was murdered in cold blood, primarily because he was black and didn't "obey" the commands of a white racist cop, and now we have the facts to prove it. Let's face it,the United States has been a racist country from the very beginning. Even George Washington was a miscreant slave owner! At the height of the lynchings of blacks and whites in the south after Reconstruction, and less than 3 years after the massacre at Wounded Knee, a school teacher, Katherine Bates, wrote the poem that would later become the famous song,"America the Beautiful". Not much has changed since then. A majority of Americans still prefer to ignore the facts and keep singing along with Mitch. I doubt the DOJ report will make much of a difference.- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago
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To say that African Americans can be as racist as white Euro-Americans is a popular fiction. Racism is not just an attitude. The personal feelings of an individual must come bundled with an institutionalized form of racism in order for the racist behavior or sentiment to have any teeth, or impact. In fact, it is not possible for a black person, or any other minority in the United States to be racist against whites.
Yes there are those minorities who have a personal bias against whites, or even a hatred of white society, but we cannot define such behavior as racism as it is incorrect. Many also define sexual lust as "love" but most of us understand that there is a distinct difference between the two emotions. To further illustrate, there are women who obviously do not like men. However, to claim that a woman can be sexist is also a popular fiction, and for the same reason: Sexism and Racism both require the component of societal institutionalization.
Because of the society we live in, the photo I have provided here will appear gratuitous and sexist to some. However, when men are portrayed as sex objects it is rare that anyone would seriously consider it to be an example of sexism.
Wikipedia, as well as other "authorities" has stated that: "...One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon."
I understand that people define racism differently, but a major stumbling block to social progress has always been a misunderstanding of language, and a pervasive use of arbitrary definitions that are used to suit a particular personal,political, or social agenda. Three words that are commonly misused and greatly misunderstood in the English language are as follows:
1.Love
2.Hero
3.Racism
Love:
Having been a teenage boy myself, I can attest to the fact that it is very difficult for a teenager to differentiate between lust and love. Many songs that are considered to be "Love Songs" can just as easily, and in many cases more appropriately, be defined as "Lust Songs". Here, it is commonly a matter of perspective.
Hero:
The word "hero" has especially been abused in the media since 9/11. Today, according to talking heads like Nancy Grace, anyone who jumps out the window of a burning building to save their own life is considered to be a "hero".
Racism:
Today it is also not uncommon to hear white Americans speak of being the victims of discrimination and racism. Discrimination? Yes, it is possible, and it does happen. Racism? Absolutely not! It is not possible for a white person to suffer racism in America. To further clarify my point, let us imagine that I, a man, have been raped. Of course I would suffer the indignity, the pain, and the brutality of such a violent and intrusive act, but I would be in error to suggest that I now understood what it felt like to be a female rape victim in America. No, such a thing is not possible, because no matter how I have been brutalized, I am still a man living in a man's world, and as such, I will never fully be able to appreciate the cross that a woman must bear in this society.
It has been said: " Sticks and stones may break my bloody bones, but words can never hurt me." An encouraging sentiment perhaps, but in this respect totally false. A misuse and misunderstanding of words has caused a great misery in the world, and one day, it may very well destroy us all. But be of good cheer, one day your heart will stop beating, and you will once again experience the blissful peace of the disincorporated.
Concerning your question about "race baiting". It depends on who is doing the race baiting. If it emanates from a member of the white majority that benefits from institutionalized racism then the answer is yes. If it emanates from a member of a minority the answer is no. In the latter case it is not an act of racism, but simply a matter of race baiting.
Whether it seems reasonable or not is beside the point. You, and many others here, have obviously grown accustomed to an inaccurate, and superficial definition of a particular term. For instance, throughout recorded history there have been individuals who have exhibited a similar degree of depravity and barbarism as was exhibited by the Nazi Party during World War II. However, it would be grossly inaccurate to suggest that Attila The Hun, the Visigoths, or Nero were all members of the Nazi Party, as it would simply be a false assertion; an assertion that can only properly function as a metaphor.
We can say that Nero "behaved like a Nazi" toward the Christians, just as we can say that a black person might " behave as a racist" toward whites. But we cannot move beyond the metaphor without perverting the proper meaning of the term "racism". The image I have provided here is of one of the founding fathers of racism: Pope Nicholas the V. His papal bulls, the "Dum Diversas" and the "Romanus Pontifex" laid the foundations for racism, which did not exist prior to the 15th century.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
ahorseback, I think wrenchBiscuit is pointing out the difference between the personal racial bias of an individual, and systemic racial bias within the structures and processes that are fundamental to society: the justice system, education system, financial system, law enforcement etc.
It has been shown that in all these areas racial bias exists which impacts negatively on African Americans. If you are a black person, then you are more likely to receive a longer prison sentence than a white person for the same offense (despite having the same criminal history), more likely to be excluded from class for bad behaviour than a white student who demonstrates the same behaviour, more likely to be given a higher APR on a personal loan than a white person in the same financial circumstances, more likely to be stopped by police without reasonable cause, and more likely to be searched as a result of that stop than a white person.
So while it's true that a an African American can be racially prejudiced against a white person, and that is wrong. That type of prejudice does not compare, even remotely, to the systematic racial bias at the core of society that impact on every aspect of an African American person's life. Can you see the difference?
You are right, there are attempts to level the playing field and reduce the negative impact of racial bias. But levelling a playing field that is sloped in favor of white people can't be described as racism (reverse or otherwise). It's just making things more equal. I think this cartoon explains it pretty well:
Something else to note about systemic racism, or structural racism as it's sometimes called, is that is does not imply malice. In other words, the fact that black men are more likely to receive longer prison sentences than white men for the same crime, does not necessarily mean that all the judges are racist (some of those judges are in fact be black also). Instead there maybe certain negative assumptions being made on the basis of race (stereotypes) which influence the decisions of judges and others within the justice system. Those judges may be acting in good faith, and be completely unaware of those internal assumptions. It is only through statistical analysis that such bias comes to light, which is why such work is important, and why it's important to point out racial bias where it is shown to exist.
Unfortunately the issue of race is such an emotive one that some people become very sensitive when shown some uncomfortable realities. I can see why. A judge who has consciously tried to avoid race factoring into her judgements would understandably be mortified if she were accused of racism. A natural response is to then go on the defensive; talk about people using the 'race card' or people 'race-baiting'. The result is that an important issue then gets overtaken by the politics of race. This is why I think we need to do better at talking about racism.
We need to get away from looking at the issue of race as a 'blame game' because that doesn't help. Sure there are individuals who go out of their way to offend/harm others because they believe one race is superior/inferior than another. Those people can be dealt with through social ostracization. That's relatively easy to manage. Systemic racial bias is a more difficult challenge because it is insidious, i.e. it 'proceeds in a gradual, subtle way, but with harmful effects'. Dealing with that type of racism in a climate of mistrust would be almost impossible.
So I think the national debate about race needs to take on a more reconciliatory tone. It needs to be about healing, not blaming. At the moment many black people are angry, and have every right to be. Many white people are defensive, and feel under attack and it's easy to understand why. A good start would be acknowledging these feelings on both sides of the debate because they are both valid. Then trying to move on from there. Perhaps by reaching a common understanding of what racism is and why racial bias from a black person has a different impact to racial bias from a white person.
This guy does a good job in this 3 minute video of describing 'reverse racism'. It's obviously meant in a humorous way, but there is a serious point in there that it would be useful to understand about the dynamics of racial bias..
Thank you. That's exactly what I'm doing. But let's face it, the racists who participate in Hubpages forums aren't going to jump up and announce their true affiliation. No, instead they hide behind a facade of friendly debate and try to demean anyone who challenges their fiction of America. The cartoon you posted is right on point. It is next to impossible to challenge racism today without also being accused of racism. Such a tact is a very effective weapon that is frequently used on the internet, because everybody wants to be "Liked". This is where the insidious evil of capitalism creeps in. People want to be liked so they can get more followers, more views, and sell more product. And they basically want these things so that they may survive. What they reap beyond their basic necessities is purely for the sake of greed. Minorities, especially African Americans must be careful not to give in to such temptations, as the short term popularity and financial gain will never compensate for a future that holds another Ferguson, and perhaps much worse.
The "honorable" Theodore Roosevelt said in 1886 : " I suppose I should be ashamed to say that I take the Western view of the Indian. I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."
This is a good example of American leadership, and the mindset that led us to Ferguson.
I have no remedy for your lack of understanding. The statistics you have cited for Vermont only support my arguments. If not, then we can only subscribe to the fiction you are attempting to peddle here:
That " according to the numbers" a large percentage of black people in Vermont are basically shiftless, drug abusing criminals. It appears that you are the one who needs to get in touch with reality. It only follows that you probably feel that women have historically been paid lower wages than men for doing the same job because they just don't try hard enough. Who do we suppose has been keeping the women folk in the USA downtrodden, barefoot, and pregnant for well over 200 years? The Africans? The Muslims? The North Koreans? The Viet Cong?
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
Years ago, while living in New York, there was a debate on local TV about the disproportionate amount of African Americans in the military. I was completely floored when the anchorwoman who was moderating the debate said in all of her wisdom and glory: " Well you know, no one forced them to join, and they all enlisted voluntarily!" I still can't believe this person was hired by a TV station.
Of course they enlisted! They had no other choice. People struggling to survive and support their families become desperate, like rats in a maze. When all other doors have been closed, they will move toward the open door. Blacks in the military were purposely set up by a racist system to move in that direction. A higher unemployment rate for blacks means more are likely to enlist: from slaves to cannon fodder. A 5th grader could figure that one out. Of course some would join anyway, but not in such great numbers if regular employment were available.
Your argument about Vermont makes about as much sense. A disproportionate amount of blacks in the prison system simply reveals that they are also being "herded" in that direction by a racist system. If we reversed the roles and rewrote history, then there would be a disproportionate amount of whites incarcerated. This is elementary. It is despicable to set up a race of people to fail, and then when a disproportionate number of them fall down , or even fall through the cracks , self-righteously proclaim," See, they did it to themselves,!"
Do you also wonder why there were more Jews in concentration camps during WWII than blonde, blue-eyed Germans?
It is accomplished through an institutionalized racism. A system that has made it difficult for minorities to find employment for hundreds of years. A system that creates a poverty, destroys self-esteem, and creates a bitterness and hopelessness that can easily lead to criminal and anti-social behavior. There is a burden that minorities , especially blacks, must carry in this country; a burden that the white man will never know. Consequently, the notion of "reverse racism" is at best a bad joke.
Once, while living in New York, I was working with a black R&B singer. I was recording some of his original music at my home recording studio which was located in a nice suburb; predominantly white. His name was Charles, and he was a very polite and articulate man in his late forties who grew up in Harlem. He was late getting to my house for the first session. When he finally arrived he was visibly shaken. When I asked why, he explained that he had gotten lost and had to keep circling through the neighborhood to find my house. I still didn't get it. I responded with something like , "So what, what's the big deal about that?" He further explained that he was paranoid that whites would consider a black man driving around in their neighborhood in an old car suspicious, and then call the police. Apparently his paranoia was driven through experience. We had many conversations after that, and it is Charles who taught me a lot about the black experience in America, and how racism affects the human psyche. A white man would have never felt threatened in a suburb simply because he couldn't find my house!
Furthermore, Charles was getting it from all sides. He couldn't afford to escape the ghetto, and so he had to deal with all of the hardships that entails. For him as a black man in America, there was no possibility of a happy home with a nice manicured yard and a picket fence. The best he could do was to find find relative states of calm in his life. For him, music was an oasis that allowed him a temporary escape from both worlds: The world of the ghetto, and the world of racism. He died several years later of a heart attack while working as a janitor at a local hospital. Charles was black; Charles was poor and he lived in the ghetto, but he was also an honorable man, and one of the most talented singers I have ever worked with. He was a hard working man who was deserving of a better life. Yes, when I hear whites cry about "reverse racism" ,I often think of Charles and the millions of others just like him. He did everything he could do to free himself from his poverty, but to no avail. But ironically, he also knew that even if he did escape the ghetto, he would never be free from the yoke of racism that would confound and confine him at every turn.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
Let's also not forget about the numerous motorcycle gangs that have existed since the 1950's, the Mafia, etc. Yet today the primary focus is on the black and so-called Latino gangs, as if these two groups invented the concept of gang violence and organized crime. Organized crime was invented on this continent in 1492 when Columbus wrote in his journal:
" They … brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks’ bells. They willingly traded everything they owned… . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features…. They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane… . They would make fine servants…. With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."
A childhood friend of Columbus, Michele da Cuneo, described in a letter how he raped a native woman:
" While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful Carib woman, whom the said Lord Admiral gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked—as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. But—to cut a long story short—I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought that she had been brought up in a school for whores."
It is men like these that America continues to celebrate. Ferguson was a tragedy but certainly not a surprise.
I can't imagine how "soul crushing" it must be when you are notified that your son or daughter is lying dead in the street; murdered because they didn't bow down and show the "proper respect" to a racist. The "We Are The World", "Three Cheers For Pollyanna" approach isn't going to prevent the next tragedy. This has been happening for over 500 years. Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Today cannot be blamed on history? Your very words illustrate the crux of the problem here in the United States, and throughout the world. And for those lovers of statistics, facts, and indisputable truth out there in the great land of Google, I will now provide you with the coup de grace: the indisputable proof that the future is nothing but a present inextricably tethered to the past. The proof that I offer is your very existence! How many of you "have not" gone to grammar school, high school, or college? How many of you "have not" been taught, directed, and disciplined by a parent? How many of you "have not" been subject to pay taxes or fines levied by a government authority? How many of you "have not" grown older, wiser, and not so pretty as your High School prom picture over the years?
All that I have cited is directly related to history. We go to school to learn from the past. When we are taught mathematics and language, it is the past reaching out to us. Language, Mathematics, and Science did not just fall out of the sky today. No, these things were developed over thousands of years. When a parent teaches his or her children , they are reaching out from the past into the present,they are using their experience through time as an advantage to help guide their children. When a citizen pays tribute to the state in the form of taxes and fines, he is also being directed by decisions and policies of the past, many that are hundreds , or even thousands of years old! Finally, as a rule, a 90 year old woman will not look or act as an 18 year old. There is also a good chance the 90 year old woman will have sex on the first date. Why? Because the countenance of a 90 year old woman reveals that she has weathered many years; that her life began in a more distant past than the life of the younger woman. The past reaches out to her, and will not let her go, no matter how she tries to hide it. Furthermore, at the age of 90, any opportunity for sexual intimacy may be her last.
When we speak of crime, racism, and any other social ill, we cannot pretend that these things are not directly connected to , and affected by the past. Such a notion is quite absurd in light of the great truth I have just revealed. America continues to pay for it's past sins because there is a karmic debt that has yet to be paid. Goodness cannot come out of evil, and the selfishness and evil that existed in 1492 has continued from one generation to the next, unto the present day. In over 500 years, there has not been one decade, or even one year of peace on this continent. What kind of a man cannot see the writing on the wall? Yes, there is a very clear connection between the evil past of America and tragedy in Ferguson. For any of you over 40 who dispute my argument, I challenge you to look into the mirror and see a younger face than 20 years ago. You will see that you have been transformed by the past, which now defines your present.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
I used to watch "All In The Family" on a regular basis, and found it to be quite amusing. However, the real life version is not funny at all.
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
The socially centered hot spots of law breakers? Are you talking about Wall Street or Capitol Hill? I grew up in rural America, and it should be obvious to anyone why country folk don't riot in the streets. But since you are intent on peddling the fiction that black people are inherent law breakers, let's take a trip across the ocean and see what the "green people" have been doing for the last 129 years:
Belfast 1886:
"... Officially thirty-one people were killed in the riots, although George Foy, who made surgical reports on the riots, reckoned that the real death toll might have been as high as fifty. Hundreds were injured. Over four hundred arrests were made. An estimated £90,000 worth of property damage was incurred, and local economic activity was significantly compromised."
Belfast 1969: " ...The most bloody rioting was in Belfast, where seven people were killed and hundreds more wounded. Scores of houses, most of them owned by Catholics, as well as businesses and factories were burned-out. In addition, thousands of mostly Catholic families were driven from their homes..."
Belfast 2013:
" ... Many families with children were caught up in the violence.
Petrol bombs, bricks and fireworks were thrown at the police who responded with water cannon and fired 20 plastic baton rounds.
North Belfast MP Mr Dodds was knocked unconscious during the riot and taken away in an ambulance..."
" ... Mr Dodds was hit by a missile thrown by loyalists at the junction of Woodvale Road and Woodvale Parade.
Water cannon and baton rounds have been used in north Belfast after violence broke out..."
"... Four police officers and one civilian have been hurt ..."
These are excerpts taken from various reports over the years of the rioting in Belfast Ireland. This should answer all of your questions. In areas where population density is high, human beings are likely to protest and riot when a particular group feels threatened, or that their civil rights have been violated, regardless of race! Racism is often a factor of "why" black people riot in the United States, but the black man is not genetically predisposed to violence and disorder; no more than a white Irishman. The fundamental root of the problem in the U.S. is capitalism. The institution of racism simply compounds the problem.
Yeah, I know. And when a young girl gets gang raped at one of their frat parties, well, you know, "boys will be boys".
It is typical for many Americans to downplay the criminal, anti-social, and psychotic behavior of whites while demonizing the minority. In 1893, over 10,000 spectators, predominantly white, witnessed the torture, dismemberment, and lynching of Henry Smith in Paris Texas. In 1916, between 10-16,000 spectators, predominantly white , witnessed the torture and lynching of Jesse Washington in Waco Texas.
A psychopath is defined as someone who exhibits sadistic, antisocial behavior, and a greatly diminished capacity for empathy and remorse. Apologists have noted that the spectators at these horrific spectacles of human depravity were simply "curious", and that they were caught up in the moment; that they themselves were the "victims" of a "mob mentality". B.S.! It's time to get real. What is often described as a "mob mentality" is nothing more than psychopaths feeling free to act out their sick fantasies in public with the support and approval of other psychopaths. It is rather strange that a majority feels comfortable labeling an individual such as the serial killer Ted Bundy a psychopath. However, when a large group of people exhibit a similar depraved behavior, especially when that large group of people happen to be white, they are not considered psychopaths at all, just "curious" onlookers caught up in a "mob mentality".
Let it be known that hanging around gay people will not make a straight person gay. Let it also be known that a sane person who finds himself in the midst of a group of psychopaths will not temporarily become a psychopath. It just doesn't happen folks. Yes, we can understand that there were most likely some individuals at these events who wanted no part of it, and would have preferred to put a stop to it. But let's face it, if 9,000 people out of 10,000 would have been against these acts of brutality, then they would have never happened. But this was not the case. Both lynchings were treated by the majority as a festive occasion, with many people smiling, selling concessions, and some even taking body parts of the black victims as souvenirs!
These people were not exhibiting a "mob mentality", but only being what they truly were: psychopaths. I would never go out of my way to witness such a spectacle, unless I were there to stop it. You have tried to peddle a fiction about black people, but the truth is that at no time in the history of the United States have over 20,000 African or Indigenous people, on two separate occasions, gathered together to witness the torture, the dismemberment, the lynching, and the murder of a white European American. No this has never happened, and so for those of us who are educated, and who have at least a semblance of humanity, your words and your fiction are all too familiar.- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
- ahorsebackposted 9 years ago0
Yes, I remember "Problems of Democracy" real well. I remember the genocide of 100 million human beings. I remember nearly 500 years of slavery. I remember over 60 years of Jim Crow. And I remember a struggle for civil rights that left many dead and wounded in body, mind, and spirit; a struggle that fell far short of what many hoped it would accomplish. I also remember a labor movement, and a women's rights movement.
Yes, I remember movement's for social, racial, and economic equality that were co-opted by the same oppressive system they hoped to abolish; a system that now rewards "Cousin Tom Stepford" with a chance for second class citizenship, and even a chance to become President, as long as he bleaches the blackness from his mind and replaces it with the European model of the good "African American".
Yes, there are many who say they love their country. And this is no surprise. When the Jews were being herded into cattle cars, many Germans loved a ruling party that had greatly reduced the unemployment rate, and who had put money back into their pockets. The destabilization of the German economy following WWI had reduced many former middle-class Germans to a state of abject poverty. But a civilized society cannot base it's morality on the state of the economy, or how much money they have in their bank accounts!
As long as a majority in the United States are prosperous, or at least "making ends meet", the occasional unwarranted killing of a black citizen is not going to start a social revolution. But what I find particularly disgusting, and hypocritical, is that just like during the reign of the Nazi's, many Americans will publicly proclaim that they "love their country" without giving a second thought to the past and current evils perpetrated by said country.
I would be ashamed to say I love the killing of women and children. I would be ashamed to say that I loved the polluting of the land, the air, and the water. I would be ashamed to say I love a for-profit prison system that is by design, self-perpetuating. I would be ashamed to say that I loved a government that continues in it's attempts to create unrest, and destabilize other countries, such as Bolivia, for profit and control. The German people did not try to work within the Nazi party in order to make Nazism more "user friendly", and less morally corrupt. They simply kicked the Nazi's to the curb. Adios Amigos! Hafa Adai! It appears that Americans have a difficult time letting go of a bad idea; a system that simply doesn't work for the majority. Apparently the German people were able to move on and put the mistakes of the past behind them.
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