Revisionist History | Where are the ashes?

1. 66

   ptosisposted 7 years ago

   Tried to find info according to https://archive.org/stream/page2_201702 … 0/mode/1up
   about the 'no evidence of large ashes depositories'
   
   There should be sparse plant life where it is buried because according to http://www.sympathysolutions.com/curren … er-th.html
   
   "Cremated ash remains are harmful to the environment if left in their original state due to the extremely high pH levels   ...   also contain sodium in amounts that range from 200 to 2000 times what plant life can tolerate"
   
   
   The Topf ovens
   " ... in the corresponding invoice as the "large-area cremation oven", due to its size (its base covered an area of about 32 m2, or 344 sq.ft.).   ...   The oven was probably not equipped with forced-air blowers, since none are mentioned on the bill of April 5, 1943." -  http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html
   
   And the Testimony of Crematorium Engineers
   https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource … cTest1.htm
   
   I found the ashes
   
   http://alphahistory.com/holocaust/auschwitz/
   
   The grounds and forest around Auschwitz was ankle-deep with ash, deposited like rain by the giant brick chimneys of the crematoria. Gullies, ditches and ponds, used as dumping grounds for crematoria waste, were clogged thick with ash and bone fragments.
   
   
   https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor … 8#comments
   At Auschwitz, Martynushkin and his unit found some 370,000 men's suits, 837,000 women's garments, and 7.7 tons of human hair,
   
   
   http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/ … ce-of-evil
   [hair], “cured” in lofts over the crematorium’s ovens and gathered into twenty-kilogram bales.
   
   https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011 … -birkenau/
   a pond, one that was used to dump the ashes of the murdered victims.   ...  In a book entitled “Secretaries of Death,” a survivor named Irka Anis wrote that one night in the middle of January 1945, she and several other female prisoners were ordered to work for three days removing about 6,000 huge urns containing ashes from a crematorium at Birkenau; the ashes were loaded onto trucks and removed from the camp just before the Nazis fled.
   
   Holocaust denial is alive and well in the highest offices of the United States. It is being spread by those in President Trump's innermost circle.
   
   

   replyreport
2. 87

   Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago

   The thought that people are trying to deny the Holocaust is disgusting.

   replyreport
3. 61

   Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

   All of this is a molehill the DNC is attempting to make into a mountain for political gain. Spicer apologized however he never denied the holocaust. By creating a furor over this the DNC and any who follow suit are more offensive to the Jewish listener, according to Alan Dershowitz a Jewish professor, democrat and Clinton supporter.
   
   Any intelligent person knows what Spicer meant and what he didn't. Dershowitz has accused those within the Democratic party (Nancy Pelosi, in particular) of exploiting the tragedy of the holocaust by using false accusations concerning it for political gain. He also accuses the head of a 'phony' organization 'The Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect' of exploiting the Holocaust in order to gain publicity for him and his tiny group.
   
   And, according  to the the article 'no one, left or right, should invoke Hitler for political gain . But, among Jews, the left has a near monopoly on misusing the Holocaust and anti-Semitism to attack its political foes. It only serves to lessen the unique evil that constitutes the Holocaust.'
   
   http://www.anti-semitism.net/holocaust- … ournal.php
   
   STOP PLAYING INTO THE HANDS OF THE POLITICIANS. THINK FOR YOURSELF. JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.

   replyreport
   1. 66

      ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Why are you calling me stupid? I didn't mention Spicer. Cherry picking  a single incident was your choice, not mine.
      
      
      Number of incidents in 2017: 204
      (86% increase from  2016 if trend continues for the rest of the year)
      Number of incidents in 2016: 632
      Number of incidents in 2015: 469
      -
      http://www.amchainitiative.org/antisemitism-tracker
      
      Why were the 7,000 antisemitic incidents under Obama largely ignored?
      Is the Trump-inspired Surge in anti-Semitic Incidents 'Fake News'?
      Perhaps the attackers are pro-Moslem far-Left Hillary supporters?
      
      Incidents of hate have been directed against transgender women, Jews, African Americana, Hispanics, Muslims, Hindu Americans, Sikh Americans. Hate groups nearly tripled from 34 to 101 in 2016.
      
      "Trump’s run for office electrified the radical right, which saw in him a champion of the idea that America is fundamentally a white man’s country," said Mr Potok, citing as part of the problem the appointment to senior posts of retired general Mike Flynn, who has described Islam as a “malignant cancer” and tweeted that “[f]ear of Muslims is rational”, and Mike Pompeo who is close to some of the country’s "most rabid anti-Muslim extremists". - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 82846.html
      
      
      

      replyreport
      1. 61

         Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         You are the one saying denial is being spread by Drumpf's innermost circle. The only evidence we have, of people complaining and creating drama, are the DNC and its cohorts complaining about Spicer's statement. His statement is not seen, by reasonable and intelligent people, as denying the Holocaust.
         
         This thread is spreading hatred by pretending something is being done when it isn't. That was the point of my post.
         
         Edit. Taking little things and pretending as if they are big....taking a statement from one person and pretending that it represents the ideals of a large group of people....it's shameful and divisive.

         replyreport
         1. 66

            ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            OK, you're right, Spicey is a harried, gaffe-prone press secretary. Some primarily attribute Spicer’s words to stupidity and ignorance.
            
            Spicer began by comparing Hitler favorably to Assad , then later  said that Hitler “was not using the gas on his own people". By saying that Assad is worse than Hitler because he killed his own people, Spicer tacitly accepted the Nazi definition that German Jews were not actually German. By defining Assad’s victims as innocent, Spicey compared Hitler’s victims deserved their deaths. - It’s possible to chalk his statements up to a series of verbal bungles — stupid, maybe, but not intentionally malevolent. But by echoing the statements of Holocaust deniers in multiple ways, he sent a clear dog-whistle of approval to anti-Semites; regardless of what he meant, what he said was a validation of Holocaust denial.  - https://thinkprogress.org/the-trump-tea … 60cfa1c1eb
            
            Trump's inner circle & biggest supporters
            David Duke, Richard Spencer, Steve Bannon, Sebastian Gorka
            
            "Globalist and corporate media — these are code words of anti-Semitism, and when they're used by a man with an anti-Semitic history such as Steve Bannon, you'd have to be living in the Stone Age not to connect the dots." - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin … story.html
            
            When some of your biggest fans and most crucial staff members are outspoken white supremacists, when your campaign and election have revived hatred against Jewish people, when you hire as your chief strategist a guy who runs a website that caters to white nationalists, and when your administration repeatedly makes unforced errors talking about the Holocaust, you have an obligation to do better or we must de facto assume this is on purpose.  - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tru … 574bb4e66a

            replyreport
            1. 61

               Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Trying to piece together what caused you to start this thread has led me to the point of being so disgusted with this blatant attempt to pretend that others are Holocaust deniers that I am going to leave you to pursue their fantasy on your own.
               
               When everyone pretending that anyone has denied the Holocaust decides to join the adult world, I'll welcome them all. Until then, adios.

               replyreport
               1. 66

                  ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Pretending?
                  So according to you, nobody ever denied the Holocaust?
                  
                  So you deny that there are no deniers.  Simply having an opposing viewpoint doesn’t mean it’s of equal value. Holocaust denial exists. Wishful thinking can’t change that. We, as a society, need to get better at recognizing denial (including, perhaps especially, our own), seeing the motives beneath it, and challenging it.

                  replyreport
                  1. 61

                     Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Holocaust denial doesdoes exist, just not in the quarter accused in thisthread.

                     replyreport
4. 78

   colorfuloneposted 7 years ago

   DAYS OF REMEMBRANCE OF VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST, 2017
   -----------------------------------
   BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
   A PROCLAMATION
   
   On Yom HaShoah the day of Holocaust Remembrance and during this Week of Remembrance, we honor the victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution.
   
   ​The Holocaust was the state-sponsored, systematic persecution and attempted annihilation of European Jewry by the Nazi regime and its collaborators. By the end of World War II, six million Jews had been brutally slaughtered. The Nazis also targeted other groups for persecution and murder, including Roma (Gypsies), persons with mental and physical disabilities, Soviet prisoners of war, Jehovah's Witnesses, Slavs and other peoples of Europe, gays, and political opponents.
   ​The United States stands shoulder to shoulder with the survivors of the Holocaust, their families, and the descendants of those who were murdered. We support the Jewish diaspora and the State of Israel as we fulfill our duty to remember the victims, honor their memory and their lives, and celebrate humanity's victory over tyranny and evil. Holocaust survivors, despite scars from history's darkest days, continue to inspire us to remember the past and learn from its lessons. By sharing their experiences and wisdom, they continue to fuel our resolve to advance human rights and to combat antisemitism and other forms of hatred.
   
   ​During this week in 1945, American and Allied forces liberated the concentration camp at Dachau and other Nazi death camps, laying bare to the world the unconscionable horror of the Holocaust. We must remain vigilant against hateful ideologies and indifference. Every generation must learn and apply the lessons of the Holocaust so that such horror, atrocity, and genocide never again occur. It is our solemn obligation to reaffirm our commitment to respecting the fundamental freedoms and inherent dignity of every human being.
   
   ​Let us join together to remember and honor the victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution. We express our eternal gratitude to the liberators who selflessly risked their lives to save those of others, and we pledge to never be bystanders to evil.
   ​We must never forget.​
   
   ​NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, do hereby ask the people of the United States to observe the Days of Remembrance of Victims of the Holocaust, April 23 through April 30, 2017, and the solemn anniversary of the liberation of Nazi death camps, with appropriate study, prayers and commemoration, and to honor the memory of the victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution by internalizing the lessons of this atrocity so that it is never repeated.
   ​IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-fourth day of April, in the year two thousand seventeen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-first.
   
   ​​​​​​DONALD J. TRUMP

   replyreport
   1. 66

      ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "we pledge to never be bystanders to evil."   - Total agreement
      
      

      replyreport
      1. 78

         colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         

         replyreport
         1. 66

            ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            So Life begins at arousal? That's why Catholics consider using a rubber  a sin because they think a sperm with 23 chromosomes is a 'person'. It's not, and never will be.
            
            
            “Life begins at conception,”but the phrase is highly—and purposefully—misleading because it confuses simple biological cell division both with actual pregnancy and with actual, legal personhood, which are all very different things. Does personhood begin at conception? Is a fertilized egg, blastocyst, embryo, or fetus a person with rights that trump those of the woman upon whose body it depends?
            
            Jewish law and tradition does not recognize an egg, embryo, or fetus as a person or full human being, but rather “part and parcel of the pregnant women’s body,” the rights of which are subjugated to the health and well-being of the mother until birth. The United Methodist Church recognizes the primacy of the rights and health of women. Islamic scholars, like Jewish scholars, have debated the issues of “ensoulment” and personhood, and continue to do so with no over-riding consensus. - https://rewire.news/article/2012/11/04/ … t-point-0/

            replyreport
            1. 96

               wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               That's the single biggest problem with the entire "right to live" program - there is no obvious point at which human life begins, but one is assumed anyway, and anyone disagreeing is wrong.  The rationale behind such a statement of opinion (it cannot be fact) that must be shared by all has always escaped me.

               replyreport
               1. 66

                  ptosisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  You are absolutely correct.  It is an arbitrary definition legally and that is why it will forever be controversial.

                  replyreport
                  1. 96

                     wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Pretty much.  Sad that neither the pro-life or the pro-choice people can figure that out.  One assumes personhood begins at conception while the other thinks it is much later and neither will concede that their opponent even has a different opinion.  It's as if to even discuss the question, the root of the difference between them, is to agree that there is nothing but opinion - something that would ruin their position.  And that's probably true.

                     replyreport