TRUMP LIES!!!...or does he?

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   wildernessposted 5 years ago

   https://nypost.com/2018/10/15/why-trump … dent-ever/
   
   A long list of promises Trump made during his campaign.  Promises he's kept and that never were lies, unlike promises our politicians are so fond of but either know they cannot accomplish or have no intention of even trying.  As a list for Trump's first 2 years it is already startling long.
   
   Actions speak far louder than rhetoric, particularly when coming from Capitol Hill.
   
   Yes, yes - I know it's the Washington Post - worse than the Enquirer to Trump haters.  But it's an interesting list, and hard to refute without spinning it into unrecognizable garble as it's all true.

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      promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Really, Trump never lies?
      
      The link goes to an opinion piece from a right-wing columnist on the NY Post editorial pages. It's not an objective news article using sources from both sides.
      
      That makes it quite easy to refute.

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         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Have at it and refute, then!  Which promise listed has he not done (they did list a couple uncompleted as of now but being worked on - they don't count)? 
         
         *I DID say Trump haters would not like the source*.  And no, it is not a news article; just factual.  For the most part anyway; the comment on NYC and exaggerations was certainly opinion, although likely true.

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            promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            At least you acknowledge it is an opinion piece -- by a well-known Trump supporter.
            
            We have refuted his wild claims a thousand times using a wide variety of credible sources including videos. Trump's supporters deny them all.
            
            BTW, you are mixing lies and promises. Two different things.
            
            But here is a full list of his lies:
            
            https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 … -lies.html
            
            I'll also give you a few broken promises:
            
            1. He promised to kill Obamacare on his first day in office. He has not.
            
            2. He promised to make Mexico build a wall to stop illegal immigrants. But that money is now in our own budget.
            
            3. He promised to get economic growth to 6 percent. Not even close.
            
            Here are dozens more:
            
            https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete … umpometer/

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               Readmikenowposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Well now, you need to provide something other than LEFT leaning sources.  The New York Times and Politifact?  Sorry, neither have any reputation for being objective.  Especially the New York Times...who loves being called a left wing rag.  Any...objective sources?

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                  promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Everything is left wing to Trump supporters if it doesn't bow to Trump.
                  
                  Objective sources use quotes from public sources, fact check, fact check again, and run their articles through lawyers to make sure they are accurate and legal.
                  
                  PolitiFact, NYT and other newspapers use the above legal and journalistic standards, which is why few people ever sue them for lying.
                  
                  Do Breitbart and Fox News follow those standards?
                  
                  Now, can you tell me which of the 3 promises I list Trump did do?

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                     Readmikenowposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Well there are things that take time.  Doesn't mean he didn't keep those promises, it means they may take time to accomplish.  You like Politifact  here is an article listing President Donald Trump's campaign promises kept and stalled.  They are more than just 3. 
                     
                     https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete … er/browse/

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            2. 93

               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               1.  The article mentioned that he tried (hard) but was unable to cancel Obamacare.  Next?
               
               2. And he began work on it - physically impossible to build in just one year.  It mentioned that, too, I think.
               
               3.  No - you don't get to spin it like Trump does: stick to factual statements, please. "“We're bringing it (the GDP) from 1 percent up to 4 percent. And I actually think we can go higher than 4 percent. I think you can go to 5 percent or 6 percent.”  If he hasn't made that 4% promised, he's certainly on the way.
               
               Out of the exaggerated "dozens" your link lists, most have been accomplished, others are on the way and only a few failures.  And yes, it is a lie to make a promise that you never intend to keep.
               
               Did you read the second sentence of the link?  Here, I'll quote it for you again in case you missed it:  "Don’t get me wrong, Trump lies all the time."  So the opinion is that Trump lies...with exaggerated and often false statements (errors, belief or intentional lie), while his actions tell us he is doing very, very well in keeping promises.  He didn't make any he didn't intend to keep; something quite rare in politicians.

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                  promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  1. Trying is not the same as promising. He promised he would kill Obamacare on his first day in office.
                  
                  2. He began work on what? He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. Now we are paying for it.
                  
                  3. "I think" we can go to 6 percent means, well, yes, he says he can get us to 6%.
                  
                  By the way, the economy he inherited was not growing at 1%. Another lie among hundreds.
                  
                  And you are the one mixing "promises" and "lies", not me.

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Sorry, Scott, but spinning it until it fits your agenda doesn't work for me.  A lie is a lie, and a promise never meant to be kept is also a lie.  On the other hand, a promise that turns out to be impossible to keep is not a lie: if I promise to take my kid to the baseball game and the car breaks down on the way I did not lie in making the promise.  You don't get to spin it around until every time Trump opens his mouth he is lying.  We already get plenty of such tactics.
                     
                     1.  And he tried and failed.  That does not make it a lie...not unless he intended to fail.  Will that be your next claim?  That his intentions were to try and fail?
                     
                     2.  And if he reduces Mexican aid, or it even keeps Mexicans from using our social services, Mexico will be paying for it.  That tale is not written yet no matter how much you wish it were.
                     
                     3.  Stop it.  You don't believe that any more than I do.  It is an intentional lie no better than what you cry about from Trump.  "I think" is not "I will".

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                        promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Again, you are mixing the words lie and promise for the sake of spin and evasion.
                        
                        I used the word promise over and over again. You keep saying I'm using the word lie.
                        
                        Please stop it yourself.

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      Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think Trump's accomplishments mean anything to the left. It's like pouring salt on a wound because many accomplishments for Trump mean failure for the politicians attempting to thwart his every move.
      
      I think one of the problems with politics today is most politicians want the most people to think they are pleased with most decisions made, most of the time.
      
      The problem is there's an upside and a downside to everything. The more information flows unspun, the less everyone will agree, the easier it is to nitpick and the less your average politician is inclined to stand on one side or the other. Theirs is a popularity contest, every day.
      
      Hard problems require hard decisions which will, often times, be unpopular. It appears that the Trump administration is willing to tackle hard decisions and has been able to in spite of Trump's personal flaws. History will judge Trump and I don't think it will be as unkind as current left leaning citizens do.
      
      Saying what polls tell us people want to hear doesn't solve the hard problems they don't want to think about.

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      1. 93

         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         +1  This is right on.

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         promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I suggest that support for a President depends on 3 qualities:
         
         1. Leadership
         2. Character
         3. Policies / accomplishments
         
         I hope you agree that some accomplishments are good and some are bad. Trump's biggest accomplishment to date appears to be his massive tax cut.
         
         As someone who is not left, I object to it because it enriched himself and other billionaires while adding a massive amount of debt to our country. It violates a core conservative / right principle.
         
         Trump has abused our allies and supported our enemies. On that point, his policies and accomplishments are a major failure.
         
         A President should lead by uniting and not dividing a country. The divisions in this country are wider than ever. So he scores low on leadership.
         
         His pattern of personal behavior scores him low on character as well.
         
         A person doesn't have to be on the left politically to oppose Trump for the above reasons.

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            Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I see Trump as the inevitable byproduct of years and years of partisan games. Our politicians pitting Americans against each other for political gain, instead of working together for the good of all Americans. I think we can learn from their mistakes or continue to allow their ineffectual governance to lumber on.
            
            There are no statesmen and women in our government anymore. Trump is the outcome or our expecting  little to nothing in regards to compromise. That is what effective government is about. Compromise. I didn't see when Obama was president. I don't see it now.

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            1. 66

               JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Bozo Trump is a 'byproduct' alright:

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                  Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  I love how you continually prove my point about your credibility (or lack thereof)
                  
                  Thanks Jake, I have come to realize I can always count on you to contribute nothing of value.

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, he's patriotic, posting pictures of our president all over like that.
                     
                     Of course, I think they post pictures of Kim, in N. Korea, everywhere, too...

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                  2. 66

                     JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     
                     Well Live to Learn, I'm not even sure what this discussion is about because we all know Bozo Trump has a documented history as the greatest political liar on record, and despite your attempts to mislead, my credibility is just fine around here:
                     
                     you said Bozo Trump was a 'byproduct' and I simply agreed with you: We just disagree about what he's a 'byproduct' of: My guess is he's a 'byproduct' of something organic:

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                  Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Trump is not obese, according to blind people.

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               promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               I largely agree with you.

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         2. 93

            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, it DOES require a person be on the left to oppose Trump for those reasons.
            
            The tax cut returned money to the people that paid it in...in amounts commensurate with what was paid in in the first place.  An anathema to the left, as all tax policies must include wealth redistribution, so one must be left to oppose that. 
            
            Trump has "abused" no allies nor has he "supported" any enemies.  These are talking points from the left without basis in reality, and only the left believes them.  One must be left to oppose based on these complaints from the left, then.
            
            It is not possible to unite a congress or a people that refuses to be a part of unity.  As the divisions we see are again mostly talking points from the left, created and maintained by the left, only the left will believe them or oppose Trump because the left wishes to be divisive.   
            
            The left scores him low on character; the right scores him high.  Obviously, one must be of the left to oppose him for character scores.
            
            Those who oppose based on these perceived failings must be from the left, then.

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               promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Since when is cutting taxes and increasing spending a conservative principle?
               
               Since when does praising Russia and North Korea while insulting and threatening our allies a conservative principle?
               
               Since when does mocking disabled people, grabbing women by the *ussy and calling them "Horseface" an example of high moral character?
               
               It's now obvious I'm more to the right than you. Go figure.

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                  wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  If your perception that only wealth re-distribution is the goal of every tax cut you are left.  If you oppose a tax cut that does NOT have that as a goal, you must be leftist.
                  
                  Honesty if speaking is a goal of the right, yes.  But opposition based on "abuse of allies" and "support of enemies" has nothing to do with honesty; it has to do with spinning that honesty into something else.  Something that says Trump is evil and that is most definitely a leftist policy.
                  
                  Since when is doing the job you swore to do, even if it is distasteful, an example of poor moral character?  Trump did that and it was promptly spun into hatred of Muslims and child abuse; both lies coming from the left.  Obvious, then, that the claim of poor moral character comes from the left as they were the ones turning a positive into a negative to create a faux reason for opposition.
                  
                  It's obvious that you, from the left, are more than willing to "modify" events to promote a faux reason for opposing Trump...while saying that it you didn't do it.  Go figure.

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                     promisemposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     You didn't answer my questions. I'll try again. Please answer yes or no to the following.
                     
                     1. Is cutting taxes and increasing spending at the same time a conservative principle?
                     
                     2. Is praising Russia and North Korea while criticizing and threatening our allies a conservative principle?
                     
                     3. Is mocking disabled people, grabbing women by the *ussy and calling them "Horseface" examples of high moral character?

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                        wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh, I think I answered them fully and completely; you just didn't like the answers.
                        
                        The point is that, for the claims you made, only the left believes them so it is only the left that opposes Trump because of those claims.  Some are untrue, some are exaggerated and some are outright lies, but only the left will use them as a reason to oppose Trump as a general principle; specific, limited cases are of course another matter.  A "rightist", for example, might oppose Trump's praise of Kim, but is also (generally) smart enough to wait until the results are available before doing so.  "Leftists" aren't; they will oppose immediately as a political tool and don't care what the long term results might be.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm neither a left onesided or a right Almighty. Trump is the most advertised liar of all times.

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   3. 86

      crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      If I was a conservative, I'd be pretty thrilled with the job President Trump is doing, except for the explosion of the national debt, but I'd certainly overlook that given the other things he's accomplished for conservatives.

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      1. 93

         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I'm almost willing to predict a second term.  Almost.  He has an awful lot of political enemies; basically every congressman/woman on the Hill.

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            crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I think that's reasonable. As long as the economy keeps chugging along, people have a compelling reason to vote for him. This is primarily why Obama was elected for a second term - we went from a terrible economy to a growing one. It's what matters most to people.
            
            And you know I'm liberal, but I am highly skeptical of all this media garbage about Democrats taking the House. I think Trump is doing a very smart thing rallying his troops whenever he can. I think they'll come out to support him in the mid-terms and, by extension, conservative candidates.

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               It's going to be a very, very interesting mid-term, isn't it?  Of course, Democrats will tout even a gain of a single seat as the most important thing since sliced bread, but unless they can make some serious gains I think that the message is going to start sinking in.  We, the people that put you where you are, are tired of your nonsense.  We may or may not like Donald Trump, but he is far superior to what you have become!
               
               And if they are half as smart as they think they are, Republicans are going to listen to the same message.

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                  crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  If Democrats take the House, that will be a big deal. However, I'm concerned that they will start talking about impeaching Trump. While I think he's done quite a bit to warrant such a discussion, Democrats would be committing a terrible strategic error if they have any hope of winning the presidency in 2020. They think things are red now, go down that road and see what happens. What Democrats need to talk about is policy and values and what they want to do for regular people and the country. If they spend their time being the anti-Trump party, things will get even worse for them.

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     If Democrats impeach the president it will be the end of the party.  And if it passes the Senate super majority requirement, it will be the end of the careers of a great many politicians.
                     
                     But I don't expect to see even the effort.  In the beginning Trump had almost no politicians of either party on "his side", but we're seeing some real change there.  Although Democrats are still stuck on voting the party line (usually against Trump's proposals for obvious reasons) we're seeing more Republicans switch tactics and join him. 
                     
                     Likely a total pipe dream, but the goal is to get congress to behave as adults running a nation, not a pack of children squabbling in the sandbox.  IMO, that goal, formally stated or not, is what put Trump in the WH.

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                        crankaliciousposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't think it would be the end of the party, but it will produce such a groundswell of opposition that they will damage their prospects for effective governance for at least a decade.

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   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   You gotta love it that liberal obstructionists are NOW down to" lies "  , they have thrown their entire box of deep state tricks at the Trump administration , collusion , Korea , Russia love , Mueller ,  capitalist allegations , family , the wall ,  family , organized crime , sex , porn , ..........Now what's left before they begin again at the top of the list ?
   
   Now Lies ? .......Good luck with that one .

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      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      It's all that's left.  Now if they can just continue to hide and obfuscate their own lies while they cry crocodile tears about Trump's...

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3. 0

   Ed Fisherposted 5 years ago

   The only thing that would end Trump's second term is a catastrophic occurrence , Pretty much guaranteed he'll get eight years , every single successful move he makes guarantees it.
   
   I'm so........ "tired of winning ", you ?

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4. 66

   JAKE Earthshineposted 5 years ago

   
   
   Perhaps it's caused by his obvious mental illnesses, the greatest serial liar in recorded political history: The strangest looking as well:
   
   "President Trump has made more than 5,000 false or misleading claims"
   
   https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … 345361e5b1

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