Can someone explain this?

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   jackclee lmposted 4 years ago

   At a time when corporations are making money, market at all time high, US charging tariffs, IRS collecting record revenues...
   How is it that we are still running a deficit and having to raise the debt ceiling again?
   
   Where is the money?
   Where is it going?
   Help me understand...

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      Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      2 trillion went to the tax breaks for the rich, with which they bought their stock back and gave exorbitant bonuses to the bosses.

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Damn Randy, you need to get yourself another pony.
         
         Although the amount differs depending on sources, government tax revenue is up for 2018. So that "2 trillion" to the rich is just a shiny fishing lure.
         
         If revenues are up, and we still have a deficit or an increasing deficit, then the problem isn't incoming revenues it is outgoing spending.
         
         Pres. Trump doesn't get a pass here, but my point is that the issue doesn't hinge on those reduced taxes--whether to the rich or the middle-class.
         
         You are just repeating a Democrat talking point. Just like Hannity repeats, (and expounds nauseatingly), Republican talking points.
         
         Come on bud. You are better than a water-carrier like Hannity.
         
         GA

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            Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Can you say how much revenue a tax break of the same magnitude for the middle class would have benefited the economy, Gus?

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               GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               That wasn't the point Randy. I wasn't talking about benefiting the economy. I was commenting on the cause of deficits.
               
               A tax cut for any class isn't going to increase a deficit if it doesn't reduce current revenue levels. The government may not be getting more money, but it is not getting less, (so far).
               
               Which means that deficits are a spending issue first and a revenue issue second. Of course, that is a very simplistic view, and it is not a simple issue.
               
               GA

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                  Randy Godwinposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I was simply pointing out a tax break to the middle class would pay for itself because the money would be spent on paying bills or buying goods thereby creating a lot of tax dollars over the course of a year. Whereas, the rich simply buy more stock and give it to the bosses.

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                     GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     That sounds reasonable to me, but I will let the economists argue as to whether it would pay for itself. I am just not a fan of the government demanding more taxes, (and of course, that means from the 'rich'), because they can't control their spending.
                     
                     GA

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      promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Sure. A massive tax cut for rich people including Trump requires an increase in the debt ceiling.
      
      No real conservative supports running up a massive deficit during economic growth. Instead, it's the time to run up a surplus and pay down the debt.
      
      All the more reason why "conservative" Republicans in Congress are not conservative or Republicans. They simply represent greed.

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         GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Hi promisem, in following my comment to Randy; how can the tax cut be presented as the problem when tax revenues are actually up from the previous years?
         
         It is true that the cuts may mean less income than possible is coming in, but the cuts didn't decrease income.
         
         Doesn't that have to mean that spending is the problem - not income? If the government is getting more income, (even if it isn't as much as would be desired), and is still running a deficit, isn't that clear evidence that fiscal responsibility is the problem rather than the confiscatory levels of taxation - regardless of what level that increased taxation is directed at?
         
         Of course, it is just my opinion, but this charge of responsibility directed at the "tax cuts for the rich' is just party-line pablum and those that perpetuate it are no less party shills than those on Fox News that they are so ready to denigrate.
         
         GA

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         jackclee lmposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         So your answer is conservative greed that is causing our deficits and debt? What a joke? If it wasn’t for conservatives, our country would have defaulted long ago. We have a SPENDING problem, not a revenue problem.

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            Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            So who is willing to compromise? I not going to let the GOP gore my ox while keeping all their rich people perks in place and feeding a military industrial complex at my expense.
            
            Spending problem is an easy answer, the question is either side willing to give up its perks to get the spending down?

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            promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            OK. So why didn't the "conservative" President, "conservative" Senate and "conservative" House of Representatives cut spending when they had total control of the budget from 2016 to 2018?
            
            Those so-called "conservatives" were all Republicans.

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      Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Can't blame the Dems, this is happening under Trump's watch. So who is to blame this time?

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         jackclee lmposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         That is my question? Who is watching the money? Our money...where are the adults in the room. Where is the experts? Economists? Federal reserve board members? Congressional Budget office...are all these people on our payroll useless idiots?

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            Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

            To be honest, Jack, they are all crooks, it is just that things the Democrats are profligate about is less troubling to me than that in the Republicans.

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               GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               That's because the dark side has misled you bud, But there is hope. let  the force be with you.
               
               GA

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                  Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  So, you are an advocate of the GOP way of doing things, that is revealed once I get that shroud away from you?
                  
                  compared to the opposing "other side" the "dark side" is positive. When it comes to what conservatives have devolved to today, it would say "farce" is a better descriptor than "force".

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                     GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay bud, farce vs force, are you expecting an argument? Jokes on you. I think both sides are a farce.
                     
                     GA

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                        Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I know that you won't offer one, but for you many of you purple types, Trump is indeed the lesser of two evils.

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                           GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, as bad as that seems, I think Pres. Trump is the lessor of two evils.
                           
                           It seems that to many the Trump character negatives are way worse than the substantive negatives of the alternative.
                           
                           Who cares what the results are, as long as they are presented palliatively right? I am getting screwed but at least the screwer is an articulate statesman.
                           
                           The crude man says F_U, The stateman says "in consideration of the circumstantial forces applicable to a bilateral decision it has been determined that an individual appraisal of the possibility of negative results may require that a new posture of subservience and acquiescence may be the only viable option.
                           
                           GA

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                              PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Have you not considered that the character issues you see are likely only the tip of the iceberg? Imagine what he hides.

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                                 GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yep, just imagine . . .
                                 
                                 BTW here is what's on now; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZbj_caIAUE
                                 
                                 GA

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                                    GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                    Yep, just imagine . . .
                                    
                                    BTW here is what's on now; P!nk - Walk Me Home
                                    
                                    GA

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                                       Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                       Her pronounciation is so odd.....
                                       
                                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNtonlvglu8

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                              Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              GA, I sort of expected as much, the Dems are seen as too far left to be of comfort to anyone not true blue. I recall the time you had hopes for Biden as an alternative to Trump, advocate of the basic status quo but without all of Trump's negatives. But once he disappointed you, you have to return to the devil you know, and a devil he truly is.
                              
                              Again, it depends on what it is you want and what you are looking for, but that is why I am blue and you are purple is it not?

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                                 PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                 I cannot abide a devil who treats my fellow human beings with disdain, at his best , and cruelty, at his worst.
                                 
                                 I do not understand how he can be tolerated by decent people.
                                 
                                 Edit: To clarify, I am not saying those who tolerate him are not decent people. I am saying I don't understand  how they can. My mind cannot grasp it.

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                                    Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                    Panther
                                    
                                    Decent people out of fear and selfish self interest will tolerate anything. Trump plays on insecurities and fear of people regarding an uncertain future and like any tinhorn dictator, wants you to blame your neighbor for your woes.
                                    .
                                    Look how the entire GOP is cowed and self silenced out of fear of offending the "Great One", Trump of Orange.
                                    
                                    He has nothing to redeem him, the classic bully that prays on the weak and powerless, having the all standard ingredients of your typical tyrant. Hardly, presidential timber, more like particle board.
                                    
                                    But as for his own character and courage, he is yellow through and through.
                                    
                                    It reminds me of the psychologist's experiment where common people can be persuaded to harm others (cattle prods) if the conditions and circumstances were staged correctly.
                                    
                                    You tell people that they are being invaded, they can morally justify putting children in cages or even worse.

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                                       PrettyPantherposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes, being a student of psychology I am well aware of how easily certain humans will abandon their values to follow authority.

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      crankaliciousposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      I think this is something that both Democrats and Republicans can agree on. The deficit keeps going up and up. While there are different circumstances during each administration, the ultimate responsibility for spending lies with the Congress. It would seem that, no matter Right or Left, everyone wants to spend, spend, spend. Bills are passed that are filled with pork for everyone. And ultimately, the voters are responsible because they re-elect people who bring government money to their district. Very little difference between R and L, except in how they spend money the government doesn't have.
      
      That all said, given we've been using Keynesian economic theory for some time, is it time to question whether the deficit is important?

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         jackclee lmposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I think you are missing the basic point of my question. It is not meant to be political. It seems to me, under the Obama administration, when the deficits and debt kept growing, the explanation given was we were in a deep recession and the deficits are par and course...less tax revenue, more entitlement spending...hence deficits.
         Now, under Trump, we have a booming economy, we have record tax revenue, more people working and we are raising tariffs and bringing more money to the treasury, why are we still in deficit?
         I hope you see my point.
         Did Congress spend even more than while we were in deep recession?
         If that is the case, then we are doomed. If we can’t reduce our debt in the best of times, when can we reduce it?

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            Hxprofposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            "If we can’t reduce our debt in the best of times, when can we reduce it?"
            
            Jack, none of our politicians are serious about reducing the debt.  Yeah, many of them talk about it, particularly the Republicans, but if it was a priority it would be done by now.

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      promisemposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Deleted
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         Credence2posted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Obviously, the idea of the Republicans as the "fiscally responsible" party is a red herring.

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            GA Andersonposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Amen brother.
            
            GA

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   lobobrandonposted 4 years ago

   After the Vietnam war the US went off the gold standard and it prints dollar bills that float on trade. That is why it is crucial that the world trade in USD else the US economy would collapse.
   
   The US prints money and it is accepted as legal tender because the country says so. But, they still, at the end of the day need gold or some other sort of backup in place. This is not present, so as more and more money is printed, the debt increases. There is at the end of the day more being bought by Americans than what America sells.
   
   Someone better into economics can explain it better. This may help, I did not read it: https://www.myaccountingcourse.com/acco … g-currency

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