Intelligence: The Path to Ignorance

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   wesleyacarterposted 15 years ago

   Intelligence as the great debaser. Learning gained is learning lost - like a vase, once filled can no longer fit any other substance.
   
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   It seems very apparent with the hub community that the smarter someone [perceives themselves to be], the less likely that person is willing to listen, the faster that person is prepared to answer and the more offended and offensive that person will become.
   
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   That we have so many Einstein[s] here. But none willing to work as hard as Einstein; speak with as much humility.
   
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   that the answer to a question is greater than the spark of the next question - so paralyzing.
   
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   beware of the man who calls himself Master - he suggests he has nothing left to learn. This type of man is useless to himself and his followers; he only instructs his followers to follow that path to his end, and not their own.
   
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   Are you Intelligent?

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      SimeyCposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      To be intelligent is nothing,
      to be learned is something,
      to be intelligent, learned and wise is everything.
      
      For me...2 out of three ain't bad!

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      marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with your philosophy on this. I think we/everyone is ignorant, hypocritical, and quite possibly insane.

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      cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      i disagree with this.
      
      mastering something, like say a complex musical instrument, is commendable and valuable. same with a master painter, architect or martial arts, among others. they have much to teach. they impart their wisdom but expect their students to follow their own path; their own variation on a theme. i would bow to my sensei and respect that he had much to teach me.

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      (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The brain has not the characteristics of being 'filled' with so much knowledge that nothing more can get in. We never stop learning unless we choose to refuse to learn.
      
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      That appears to be more of a personal reflection than an observation.
      
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      Einstein was very intelligent, that which you are claiming to lead down "the path to ignorance." Seems rather contradictory.
      
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      Again, I suspect this is a personal conviction of belief as opposed to an observation.
      
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      Intelligence is merely a branch of evolution that some species have evolved to more or lesser degrees than others, in the same way some animals evolved tails to more of a degree than humans.
      
      Hence, if our brains are operating as they normally would, we are all intelligent, and so are many other species.
      
      Therefore, your question MUST be answered in the affirmative.

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         William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Wesley, I'm going to take the liberty of restating your original question as I understand it.  Please let me know if this is an accurate restatement of what you asked.
         
         "How much do we let our knowledge get in the way of our learning new things?"

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            (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Simple, we learn new things by using the exact same methods of attaining knowledge; the scientific method.

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      tobey100posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      And...on the other hand, false modesty serves no purpose.  There's a broad difference between being intelligent and overbearing and intelligent and humble.  I'll stick to just being intelligent.  Others can be as they wish.  I will answer if asked.  I will opine if invited.

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      DogSiDaedposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Does anyone else think this post reeks of irony?

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         What is irony?

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      qwarkposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Wesley:
      You asked a question that involves too many connotations to respond to "intellectually."
      What is the inteneded definition of the word "intelligence" as you present it here? Is it "mental acuteness?"
      Once we know that, we can chat about it.

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   sandra rinckposted 15 years ago

   Nope.  That was really good.

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   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   You got a tool. How you use it, it's a whole lotta different question LOL

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      People have lots of tools but don't always use them for their intended purpose. Sometimes I use a screwdriver as a hammer.

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         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I noticed this lately Your Majesty

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you.

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      wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      for instance, this very hubpages.com.
      
      to gather information? or to spew our opinions?
      
      to inspire someone? or simply to prove someone wrong?
      
      to say what we believe in? or simply to tell someone else they are wrong for believing it?

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         drej2522posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not sure it's intelligence that affects or hinders our ability to listen to others. You can be a complete idiot and still be just as close-minded and self-centered as someone who is supposedly 'intelligent'. I think it is your personality, or rather, your perception that determines whether or not you are considerate enough to hear what someone else has to say.
         
         ...ehhh, for the most part, people are sheep. They listen to what they want to hear. I hate them!

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         sarah dawkinsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         This tool allows us to do all of what you say.  We can assert ourselves and opinions here, it gives us that right.  We are all entitled to our opinions however, I think some hubbers use it as an arena  to aggravate others rather than discuss issues.
         
         Intelligence gives people the insight to know and understand that they don't know everything there is to know in order to continue learning.

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   Bovine Currencyposted 15 years ago

   I am a genius but I only say that because you asked.

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      wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      a poem.
      
      the wind blows. the sky shines blue.
      the sun makes its lazy trek across the sky.
      Bovine currency calls himself a genius.
      all is right with the world, no need for whys.

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         Bovine Currencyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         A poet, very good.
         
         I say I am a genius Wesley and I believe it.  I don't think I know more or less than anyone else.  I don't want to talk about intelligence and I trust that if you have seen enough of what I write in my hubs and on the forums, I am not someone who flexes the mind muscle to push people around.  Maybe you think otherwise?
         
         I ask why all the time!  I totally agree with you that the wise know nothing.  One of my favourite wise sayings is 'the wise man admits he knows nothing.'
         
         So in one way, yes, intelligence is ignorance.  It really depends what meaning is attached to the words.
         
         Roger Webster said something along these lines, 'Words are defined by other words, which are in turn defined by other words and so on until regressing into meaninglessness.'
         
         Something like that.

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            wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            i'm at a loss. i hope you don't think i was attacking you, as I think you are very smart and have read your hubs.
            
            i was merely poking fun, Bovine. you should know by now that I think YOU'RE A BEAST!
            
            "a true wise man doesn't profess to knowing nothing, he just admits to guessing right more often than not" - anonymous

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               sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               In other words he is saying, no he is not intelligent by virtue of not being full of it alone.

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         Ghost32posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Moo-oo! 

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   Bovine Currencyposted 15 years ago

   All of the above?
   
   The world is a big place and full of individuals.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

   Yep, best to keep everyone stupid and uneducated, they are easier to control...

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      wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      its a shame that's how intelligence works on a large scale.
      
      but I find it easy as well, to control people with their own intelligence.
      
      The best way to make an intelligent person turn into a complete idiot is simply to ask them "How did you get so smart?"

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   Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

   A person who is truly intelligent knows that they don't know it all.

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      avangendposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      "I know that I know nothing." -- Socrates

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         wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         is that really true?
         
         what does that mean to you?
         
         what do you think it meant to socrates?

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            marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I think it means 1 or 2 things.
            
            The first could mean he looks at knowing nothing simply as a philosophy to humble himself and draw in as much information as possible from others.
            
            The second could be that there are/were so many unanswered questions of origin and universe that he could truly believe him and everyone else knows nothing on the unanswered questions. I also think we know nothing on the large scale of things.

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   Shadesbreathposted 15 years ago

   I'm enjoying the implications of all that white space between each paragraph.

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      PrettyPantherposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      THAT is funny!

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   avangendposted 15 years ago

   Intelligence is not, by itself, a bad thing. People who value knowledge will always be willing to absorb more of it.
   
   You can, however, be both "intelligent" and ignorant - with the latter putting a great restraint on the former. If one is only willing to learn in the direction his pride allows him to, then eventually he becomes a thoroughly opinionated, biased, and judgemental individual. He becomes, as you said, a self-proclaimed and undissuadable "master" of his finite sphere of selected knowledge.
   
   But: learning gained is not learning lost. When one learns, it opens up new windows of opportunity to learn further, and this should inspire strong feelings of humility. The inputs of knowledge are infinite, and only the foolish give themselves complete authority over anything where unknown variables may still exist. A truly intelligent individual considers the data from all directions, and comes to a conclusion that makes the most sense given the information available to him. Should new, valid information appear, then those conclusions should be adjusted accordingly.

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      wesleyacarterposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      i agree.
      
      as per "learning gained is learning lost" is just a stab at answers being absolute as dangerous i think

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      Sue Adamsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hear, hear!
      Intelligence is brain power.
      Knowledge is the accumulation of facts
      Stupidity is a lack of brain power
      Ignorance is a lack of knowledge (facts)
      
      You can be very intelligent (have a strong brain) with little knowledge.
      
      Not understanding something is not stupidity but a lack of knowledge.
      
      You can be very knowledgeable, yet incredibly stupid. That is when you know a lot but haven’t got the brain power to reconcile your knowledge, or to use it well.
      
      
      You can become intelligent by sometimes feeling really stupid. Not understanding something evokes curiosity for learning. You become intelligent by learning to use more brain power, by trying to understand what you don’t understand.
      
      
      So nobody can say, I am intelligent, or I am stupid because sometimes one is stupid and other times one is intelligent. Intelligence is not a constant. Use it or lose it.

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         marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I think that is the most I have ever read at one time and agreed with everything. Well done!

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            Sue Adamsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Hey thanks for agreeing with everything marinealways24 but doesn't that kinda kill the thread? Oh well, we can always start a new one.

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               marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               lol You know, there is a funny thing about what you said. I started a thread one time asking if people thought we learned more from agreements or disagreements. Funny how threads stop when there is an agreement and how threads blow up when there is disagreement and controversy. I think we learn more from our disagreements.

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                  William R. Wilsonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I think this is true sometimes.  I think it depends on the kind of disagreement.  If all parties are able to have a levelheaded discussion of facts and different perspectives, then disagreements are much more fruitful than agreement. 
                  
                  But - contempt breeds alienation and dehumanization.  If you have contempt for your 'opponent' you won't take anything s/he says seriously, no matter how factual.

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                     marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     I agree about contempt for someone or their ideas that voids a logical conversation or discussion. Great addition.

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      Star Witnessposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes.  Of course.  And all of this goes for those professing that 'intelligence,' (often a euphemism for education achieved) is a bad thing.  Often those taking this line of thought and discourse didn't have the gumption to tackle the formal education/training they wanted to, and so take this tack.
      
      What I see often on these forums is a case of low self esteem due to lack of knowledge about what higher education really is about...
      
      In example, the truly educated (intelligent) person knows that the more they know, the more they do not know--that there are vast fields of expertise that nobody can 'learn' in a lifetime, but can hope perhaps to make a good contribution to an area or two (healthy self esteem.)
      
      The OP assumes a certain "relationship."  And that is of a victim or 'beneath' others status...which may be understandable, but not good for the individual.  Rollo May's "Love and Will," though no longer fashionable, is a good read concerning these issues, which amount to humanistic psychology and the status of the individual.

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    westpointfb20posted 15 years ago

    The truth is knowledge is infinite...no one should claim to be a master of anything for there is always more to learn. In reality if someone is truly intelligent they should realize that the more they learn the more they realize they are completely ignorant to. Great post...and very good solid points of debate

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    bluesky4realposted 15 years ago

    I know too much to be conservative or liberal.
    
    The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

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    William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago

    What about the different kinds of intelligence?
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_ … elligences

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    William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago

    There is a story of a student who goes to visit the greatest master in the land.  The student has studied and practiced every day for hours, and he is eager to show the master all that he has learned.
    
    When he arrives at the master's home, the master invites him inside and prepares tea.  The student launches into a monologue, describing his years of study and the revelations that he has come to as a result of all his hard work.  He keeps talking, waiting for a word of acknowledgement, but the master just keeps preparing the tea and listening.
    
    The student tries harder.  Surely the master will be impressed with him if he can just understand exactly what it is that the student has achieved. 
    
    The master begins to pour the boiling water into the student's cup.  The student keeps talking, but finally notices that the master is pouring the water into already full cup.  The boiling water is overflowing and spilling all over the table and onto the floor. 
    
    "Master - what are you doing?  The cup is already full!"
    
    The master stops pouring and sets the hot water down.  Finally he speaks his first words:
    
    "You must empty your cup before it will receive more water." 
    
    The student falls silent.

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    ralwusposted 15 years ago

    Don't let schooling get in the way of your education.

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    avangendposted 15 years ago

    I like that question better.
    
    And knowledge only inhibits learning as much as you want it to.

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    William R. Wilsonposted 15 years ago

    Perhaps an even better wording for my restatement is this: 
    
    How much do I let my knowledge interfere with my ability to learn new things and hear other viewpoints?

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       (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Those are simply personal choices one makes.

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    Wayne Orvisburgposted 15 years ago

    Why do I get the vibe that this started with intelligence being a bad thing? That didn't make any sense to me. (Must not be that intelligent.)

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    repstrydieflyposted 15 years ago

    I believe I'm intelligent because I read from all points of view before I even make my own conclusion also I might read all of the comments to see if somebody wrote something similar to what I already wrote. I keep an open mind to what everybody has to say, but I never say any are wrong or right. Everybody has their own ideas, and I'm a poet and a writer, so I understand. No two human beings have the same mind. Peace Love Truth Positivity

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    marinealways24posted 15 years ago

    Q: "Intelligence is merely a branch of evolution that some species have evolved to more or lesser degrees than others, in the same way some animals evolved tails to more of a degree than humans. Hence, if our brains are operating as they normally would, we are all intelligent, and so are many other species"
    
    
    lol, I don't think intelligence is jumping to faithful conclusions to fill your evolution theory. Are you stating this theory as absolute?
    
    Please explain to me with logical evidence the evolution of the human mind and it's complexities from other animals. Natural Selection? Isn't that like saying "God" did it? Do you think other animals are on the same level of intelligence or complexity as humans?

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       (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Is that rhetorical or are you serious? Such a happy fellow.
       
       
       
       I would refer back to a post I made about handing answers over on a silver platter, but in this case it's more about the abundance of information and how long it's going to take for you to absorb and understand it.
       
       Of course, you knew that, that's why you asked the question.
       
       
       
       Such a happy fellow, always laughing and letting us know about it, too.
       
       If you wish to believe that natural selection is the equivalent of saying a god did it, you'll only tend to demonstrate your lack of thinking beyond one dimension in the world around you.
       
       
       
       If they were, don't you think they would have put one of their own on the moon by now?

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          marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          lol, I'm not always happy, but I do always try to be happy. Who said that I filled in the gaps of things I don't know? I was simply saying that claiming "natural selection" is the reason we are so advanced to others doesn't explain evolution. Many gaps in the evolution theory still unexplained.

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