what to do when ministry fails

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   Thanks to a few persons here and elsewhere, that tugging is again at my heart. After so much bullsh!te, witnessed first hand, the deluge and greedy green goblets, I promised never to indulge the likes of the ministry again. The ministers I have seen are hundreds -and all have failed. they have failed to show the people the truth apart from self -selfish, self-seeking self-whatever. Such new age mumbo jumbo, that at times I wanted to rip their heads off and jump from the 4th floor of the Empire State building.
   
   I am -as the saying goes- between a rock and a hard place. I have seen the other side of the eye of the needle -between the outer court and the holy place. Yet, I see jus here alone, so many who do not. I can fume all I like at the false theists and their counter, the false atheists but in the end, I really do care for both. As a fellow human being, their life is JUST AS valuable as mine. We are all the same. Granted, we have many, many, many perspectives of that collective, but let's face it, we are all the same. No one human is smarter, wittier, better or 'gooder' than the next. No one.
   
   Am I just ranting no. I am genuinely concerned. What to do now that I know ministry has failed people and know the deepest, seemingly darkest satirist, atheist believes much more than the actual theist. Don't laugh, it is true, just listen and you will see. What to do now is the question.
   
   I refuse to be one of 'them' who get on the soap box each week teaching sh!te; nor one of them who is pulling the wool over their own eyes, in an attempt to appear self-righteous.
   
   Both are in a respect, ministries.
   what does one do when ministry fails...
   
   ...just a thought.

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      Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Twenty,
      
      Your true belief is in your heart.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I am with you on that Harvey. So with you.
         All the more reason i wish i had never set foot into the three ring circus. lol.
         
         ps, nice to make your acquaintance here on HP.

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Just stay true to yourself.  That is the best ministery of all.  Have the compassionate goal to become a fuller, brighter, stronger, and good person.  Carry the love and faith, of your personal advocate in your heart, and let that peace lead you to joy and compassion for you enemies. 
      
      Be Buddha. 
      Be Christ-like. 
      Be Tao. 
      Be Confucius.
       
      Be what your Advocate requires of YOU.  Be YOU, and work in his grace.

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   Ohmaposted 14 years ago

   Lead by example. It never works when you try to force your beliefs on others. The ministry you speak of is better served by doing than saying.
   I am an Athiest at heart but many christians acting like they say God wants is more likely to get my attention than being beat over the head by someone who does not practice what they preach.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i so agree Ohma. which is the present paradox.
      i sympathize with both atheist and theist, which has buggered me for years. yet becoming one of those hypocrites burns me. i enjoy being a philosopher -from a pure perspective of it- wisdom, nothing added, nothing taken away.
      
      but this thing keeps itching at me and honestly, i don't know why.

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         Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         James....
         
         Could it be that it's because you've left out part of the Message?--and that would be Jesus's message of Repentance?....

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            Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            case in point. the message of repent is known. without repent there is no advent. this has been taught for years and not one is better for it. why? because it is the incorrect message. not wrong, just incorrect.
            
            my israeli friends encourage; philo friends inspire; theist friends rebuke and my atheist friends berate. clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, so to speak. a paradox of heart, perhaps.
            
            i am not at all guilty nor apologize for being this way. but i have been here twice before and for some reason, now, it is like dropping 10 shrooms, a 12 pack, 8 weeks in naval boot camp and a year at the library, all rolled into one...

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               Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               But indeed haven't I heard you say everyone will be saved?
               Everyone.   ((editing to say that's not what Jesus promised at all)).
               So...since you assume it's a done deal, what ministry are you speaking of?
               
               I know one thing--
               the Word of God doesn't return void.
               The Message is STILL about Repentance.  God doesn't change; Jesus doesn't change since He is also God.  His Message was REPENT.
               
               ...If one soul is saved...nay, even if one person simply waters a tiny seed that takes root,  Jesus's Message is not a failure.  That's the Christian's goal and it's what He died for and what we Live for.
               
               Are you still telling me you don't have that Message to deliver?
               
               If so, then I'm sorry but my opinion is that you're in the wrong ministry and have so far missed your calling.

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                  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  oye. Brenda love, for the last time, I will make it plain. Everyone HAS BEEN SAVED by the savior. Their acceptance is a completely different issue. So please, understand, every single human being from adam to today has been saved. Period. He did it for everyone. Done. No need to 'save souls' or 'bring souls' to Him. Only He can do that. We are to work out our own eternal life now -and if we choice- without body, in the life to come. To -as Ohma said, prove it by action.
                  
                  If, and a BIG FAT HUGE IF, I had a message, it would be the same -Grace; even still Great Grace! Apart from buildings, boxes, bangles, beads and botox, breakfast bullsh!te. It is that stasis proved throughout the ages, even by the manifest Word and after by the sons of Elohim.
                  
                  Unfortunately, that message counters every single side of the Ism and all its parts.

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               SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               I am only going to say this. When we go through the same trial or tribulation over and over, we are doing something wrong. it is like a test that we are trying to pass. If we fail it, we take it again, and again until we pass the test.
               
               Our biggest problem is not asking the teacher for the answers. He will give them freely if we only ask in sincerity.

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                  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  doesn't explain what to do when that assumed Ism fails men and you're standing there looking at them, like you would a two year old who just dropped their cookie in the mud -wondering if you're going to be upset or laugh...

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         Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         At a glance I would say that is because you have assumed a resposibility that is not yours. It is not up to me to convince you why you should not believe nor is it your job to convince me of why I should.
         People that want to hear will hear those that don't will not. You can only be responsible for your own actions and thoughts.

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            Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            indeed. maybe my emote side is surfacing.
            thanks for the kick in the head.
            much needed.
            i have never been one for extreme emote or demote notions.
            once a philo, always a philo is the saying.
            
            my apologies for the self-indulgence.

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               Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               No apologies required.
               I simply believe that if everyone takes care of themselves the big thing will work out.

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   JeanMeriamposted 14 years ago

   You live your life following your own beliefs, doing the best you can to bring truth and love into the space where you are. That is all you can do.
   
   My honest opinion is do not even think of being a minister. It is a job, not a life of truth. Pastors speak what the committees want to hear. It's pointless.
   
   Instead of minister, how about minister to. Much more meaningful.

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   DevLinposted 14 years ago

   With the cynacism over religion, it explains the losses of the christian nation. be a Humanist. though thought solely to be athiests, their "bible", was written by a Unitarian minister and his wife. They believe in God, but not so much in the Trinity. They preach self examination of the Bible, with reason, and individual conscience in belief and practice. Individual. Leave others out of your faith. Be human, and care for all humans. Simple ideology.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      thx DevLin. i am an exceeding rationalist and more human -at times- than i prefer. c`est la vie. but both sides of the Ism exceedingly 'yap' and 'banter' which annoys the hairballs of me!
      
      though i do not entirely agree with singular responsibility, as opposed to collective purpose, i do think each one should do their part.

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         DevLinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That's not suggesting ignoring friends who would discuss bible, ethical, and trinity issues with you. I don't argue points in religion. It's a personal belief, so I keep it personal. If I don't have an answer others like, yell at me, and I'll walk away. Debate it, sometimes. Nothing extremist.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago

   (sigh)
   James I like you so much!
   
   But I believe you'll only find your answer on your knees, at the Cross.......
   
   Because the mystics have nothing on Jesus.
   I do hope you'll reconsider your current stance.
   
   And with that said, I'll leave you to sort out your dilemma.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      what mystics do you constantly keep referring me to.
      seriously, it is offensive.
      
      the mystics are you- religion and your counter science.
      i do not see where i fit in there.
      
      and again, Brenda, i was there at that cross a long time before most even thought to go and visit for a day or two. but thanks again for the religious good-luck-with-that approach.
      Makes me even more concerned about both of you.
      
      rest well.

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   SirDentposted 14 years ago

   You know, Jesus went everywhere teaching. He sent the disciples out to teach. You mentioned not wanting to get on a soap box, yet that is what Jesus actually did.
   
   When a minsitry fails, it is because something is not right in that ministry. So many are afraid of hurting feelings or offending others. People are going to be offended. The Word of God always offends the flesh.
   
   Sometimes there is nothing you can do but keep going. Men fail all the time. Righteous men fall, but they get up if they are truly righteous.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   no doubt, Dent, no doubt.
   ironically, i have shook hands with literally 3 kings/leaders of this world; been surrounded by wise men and fools; women and wealth; have also been homeless and slept on the floor of a crackhead homosexuals house, while roaches ran around me. broke bread with friends and laughed with Wiccan and falun gong, Hindi and wall street practitioners; drank great wine and not so great whiskey in back alley bars and the fanciest rooftop hot tub parties, hosted by musicians of fame.
   
   For it all, i love humans and know that there is so much grace to apply. A soapbox is not for me. After years with ministers and having even their own flesh and blood embarrass their fathers in front of everyone, while asking me to teach them faith, i still cannot bring myself to it...

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      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      This may just be the problem. We should not bring ourselves to any type of ministry. We should just let God do it for us so it can be done right.
      
      Just a thought.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   you know, Sir Dent et.al.; my biggest problem with that is simple: 'god' do everything for us and we'll just sit here like good boys and girls and do nothing. horseradish -as Earnest would say! What a bunch of lazy loafers.
   
   No wonder you -and many others- are not enjoying grace and why the others don't accept the 'sky fairy'. I have yet to find one who is truly 'on fire' for Him. The level of conformity and comfort-ability is staggering. The incense of it rises higher than the tallest building on the planet -presently Dubai.
   
   Intimat, I know this; have always been this way. My weakness is the others, I suppose. Have been chastised, laughed at, mocked, excommunicated and worse, because of Grace, go figure. If I didn't know any better, would swear i was better friends with atheists than believers. lol.  c`est la vie. Thanks love for the kind reminder.

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      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      When God called Moses, he didn't want to go because he said he was not able to speak well. God provided the answer for him. This is what God does. He provides everything you need to minister.
      
      It is not in you to minister on your own. If you do it on your own then you glorify yourself. If God is not glorified, the ministering is for naught. 
      
      Who is our source for life? Who gives us what talents or abilities that we have? Who gives us the very breath that sustains our lives?
      
      This is the one you need to minister for. Go where He wants you to go and do what He says to do. If God sends you somewhere, it will work out. If you go somewhere on your own, you may wind up in a trap.

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