Anyone got any scientific info on this subject?

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   Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

   We have a relatively new hubber who is on a mission. I find his claims lacking in scientific evidence. I've been searching and snooping for something to verify or put it to rest but have found nothing. I'm not trying to "dis" what he's doing. If anything, if it's true, we should all know about it. However, I'm a skeptic.
   
   Here is what I'm talking about:
   http://hubpages.com/hub/A-New-Cure-for- … thing-else
   
   Here's a youtube video he posted on the same thing:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F054MSUzgHU
   
   Anybody got anything in scientific info to help substantiate this?

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   zadrobiposted 14 years ago

   As a learned member of the biology and chemistry field I would like to simply chuckle and walk away.
   
   Before I even get to the "reversing the motion of the electron"
   
   I will simply state that it's a joke. I don't even want to grace his 3 pictures with captions as something remarkable, but it is worth stating the unremarkability of it.
   
   No scientific mind would be posting research on a commercial publishing site. You don't even need to read the captions... there are 100 things I could say right now as to why it's a joke before even getting to his ramblings and apparent attempt at traffic.
   
   And Dan-- if you want an explanation I'm at work right now so I'll have to give it later; but would be happy to.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, so I figured. It just doesn't add up, otherwise we'd all be doing this from a long time ago. I'm just trying to be a gentleman about it, really.
      
      Thanks for the input, Z. Keep rockin'.

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         zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         A gentleman you are, Dan. Open minds like yours are rare

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      Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      My thoughts exactley. It's a joke. It's got to be a spoof. No one would seriously say such a thing, even just to make money.

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         Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think he's on a "mission" which implies religiousity. I'm not against religion, just no longer remotely interested. Point is, he means well. If people get something out holding their hands in a specific position before drinking, then I can deal with that. We also genuflect, bow, and do all kinds of other unnecessary things (at least most of the time they're not needed) so this really isn't a bother in reality.
         
         Thanks, Z. I've had some very, very tough lessons and have learned being a gentleman is a good way to live. We all fall short, but I keep trying.

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   Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

   Dan, I watched the video. It was very amusing. Just think, you can make soda go flat using your very own hands. Thing is, I like mine with fizz!
   
   Besides, you don't have to drink water from either pipes or bottles. You can eat fresh fruit that contains water!
   
   No, I don't think there's anything to it, but it's also quite harmless.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I'm definitely with you on this one. There's lots of magic in the world, which is usually confined to our own minds.

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   ledefensetechposted 14 years ago

   It's not harmless to people who are desperate for a cure.  I hate people like this.  They deliberately prey on the ignorance, hopes and fears of people.  The only way to fight bad information is with good information.  Perhaps a series of hubs that talks about cancer, what it does, how you get it, how it spreads and different treatments and how they work.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you, but we have to be careful about throwing the baby out with the bathwater, too. There are a lot of metaphysical beliefs, spiritual, religious things that people cling to for their survival, and they somehow sustain a life because of it. Even when there is hardly a shred of truth in it.
      
      I agree, however, that knowledge, founded in fact and science is the true empowerment to one's well-being. I finally had to a lot of that for myself. Desperation is as much an illness as anything. Learning how to prevent by gaining some facts and knowledge and being proactive can do a lot to prevent it. That being said, we can't foresee all of our desperate circumstances, and so I tend to be on the compassionate side of all this. I know how it feels to be desperate, and I know how it feels to have the knowledge and facts to overcome it.

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         ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I hear you.  I've been unemployed for some time now and am getting a bit desperate.  I recently got an email that sounded somewhat plausible about a possible opportunity.  I still dissected it and found it was truly a scam:
         
         http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/24827#post459268
         
         As reasonable people we have a duty, I think, to expose these things when and as we see them.  I took a class called Rational Endeavors in school that talked about this very issue.  How do rational people keep the door open to spirituality without compromising our rationality.  We went back and forth over the issue that semester and never really came to a satisfactory conclusion.  I, personally, take a utilitarian approach.  If it works, use it.  In this case I don't think that anything as asinine as was in that hub will have so much as a placebo effect, much less cure anything.

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I like your approach, LDT. Good for you. I hope the job thing starts yielding some fruit for you, very soon.

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               ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks, I just gotta keep plugging away.  Wasn't it Pasteur that said "Chance favors the prepared mind"?  Sooner or later I'll get a break, I'd better be ready when that happens.

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                  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Bingo, my friend. There is NO substantiation for this, but I have lived it, experienced and learned from it. All the doors slammed shut on me over several things in life, and I finally realized I had to move on. Damned hard to figure out what all that means. Not saying it applies to you, just saying that as I relaxed and let go of the desperation, it all started making sense and I had a good idea of where to go again.
                  
                  Weird. Comic. Nonscientific. If it's not your deal, no worries. It'll come together for you.

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                     ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     It takes a very Zen way of thinking.  Divorce yourself from your feelings about the outcome and you find clarity and drive.  Personally I've found that my studies in Zen led me more and more to become a rational individual.  I credit Zen with enabling me to see the sublime truth of the Baloney Detection Kit:
                     
                     http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
                     
                     Xenu.net runs a great expose on Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard, by the way.  If you haven't read Bare Faced Messiah, give it a read, very illuminating.

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            Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The placebo effect is based on the beliefs of the patient. In order to work, the patient has to believe that this hand motion around beverages will improve his chances of survival. That depends entirely on the gullibility of the patient.

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               ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               There is some surprising evidence that the placebo effect has an anatomical source:  http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 … nline-news
               
               Just goes to show, you can't make too many assumptions.

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   rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

   just another way for someone to make money, I'm sure.
   have never of it.

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      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      o.k. have never heard of it.

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   ledefensetechposted 14 years ago

   Plus this kind of crap gives real businesspeople a bad name.

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   zadrobiposted 14 years ago

   This is the grammar police. Rebekah you are under arrest

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ruthless, too!
      LOL

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         Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, hell, Z, you're going to have to arrest me for my last post because of several grammatical issues. Ah, well. Typing on the fly and not proofreading has its own joys....

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   Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

   
   
   Absolutely ridiculous - I am with LDT on this one. This kind of thing gives scientists a bad name, too - even the term 'junk science' falls short.
   
   No doubt he will claim that LDT and I are part of some conspiracy by the government and medical profession to preserve the profits of the drug companies.
   
   PS - LDT - where are those Viagra tablets you promised me for saying that

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      ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Viagra?  I thought you wanted Enzyte? 

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         Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Good old Enzyte - that was a particularly limp example of medical research

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            Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            BWAH HA HA! Great example.

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   Kidgasposted 14 years ago

   I was too late.  The hub is no longer published.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well, then, probably just as well. I just checked and his whole profile, everything is gone. Perhaps Paul and team spotted it and booted him out of the neighborhood. Glad for the watchdogs I am.

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    arthritickneeposted 14 years ago

    I'm sad i missed it.
    
    I particularly like the "and everything else" in the title. The perfect way to achieve instant credibility.

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    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    Medical research into such things should be able to stand-up under intense scrutiny.

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    donotfearposted 14 years ago

    I saw the video and thought it was absolutely ridiculous.

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    Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

    LDT, I read the article. The pertinent words were: "Eippert's team didn't discover what caused this shift."
    
    I don't doubt that pain relief, and other kinds of relief, experienced by patients in response to a placebo are real, in the sense that anything we experience is registered in our brains.
    
    The big question question is: "What causes the effect?"
    
    It still seems to have more to do with the expectations and belief of the subject than with the placebo itself.

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       ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       But there is a shift, we just don't know the mechanism yet.  Kind of like how the universe is speeding up.  We don't know why, but we can measure it's effects.  Once we know something is there, we can find out the why.  That's why this line of research holds such promise for chronic pain relief.

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    Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

    LDT, does it matter if the person telling the "white lie" is a scientist in a lab coat or a charlatan without a lab coat?
    
    If the man with the video about how twirling your fingers around beverages can rid you of cancer had an fMRI study backing up the claim that a statistically significant number of duped subjects versus controls avoided cancer by twirling their fingers, would this suddenly make his claims less objectionable in your eyes?
    
    The reason I originally said the claim was bogus but harmless is because it doesn't require those who believe in this claim to do anything that would have an adverse effect on their health. You said it would not even produce a placebo effect. Based on what? How do you know this?
    
    Have people not been cured by the laying on of hands? Have other people not been killed by voodoo? The mind is a powerful force. Don't underestimate the power of belief.

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    ledefensetechposted 14 years ago

    Oh I spent the last few years dealing with crazy kids and know how delusional people can get.  There are for certain plenty of things that we don't know about the mind and how it interacts with the body.  One of the problems with belief, is that you can't reproduce it's effects consistently and test it.  That, coupled with the fact that most people reach for supernatural explanations when they don't understand something, makes belief a tricky proposition at best.  I don't discount it, but I don't put much stock in it either.

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